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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Self Defense
    #1057833 - 11/16/02 11:13 AM (14 years, 27 days ago)

Some people are so irrationally anti-self defense that they believe that no one could ever possibly use a firearm for their own protection. It is somehow beyond the pale of their frail imaginations to conceive of such a possibility. To address this naive self-serving and dishonest view, I have compiled a VERY SHORT list of REPORTED incidences where individuals have use firearms in their defense. It should also be noted that many times when a private individual thwarts a crime THEY DO NOT REPORT IT.

The Record Searchlight, Redding, CA, 7/28/95
Police believe the man who abducted a Shasta County, California, woman at knife point and forced her to drive her vehicle to a remote location may have been intending to sexually assault her. Instead, when the scruffy would-be rapist stepped from the car for a moment, the woman retrieved a pistol and shot at the man, who fled into the darkness.

The Record, Stockton, CA, 2/18/95
A Stockton, California, real estate agent put an end to an attempted rape, after a man posing as a potential home buyer attacked her in a model home. Crumpling to the floor, the realtor drew a .380 from her purse, forcing the man to flee. Pursuing him outside, the woman fired several shots at the man, missing him as he jumped in his car. She halted his escape by shooting out one of his tires and with the help of some nearby construction workers, held the thug for police. The would-be rapist is being investigated in connection with a similar 1993 attack on a female real estate agent.

The Antelope Valley Press, Palmdale, CA, 7/10/92
Feeling uneasy about her only customer, a lone Palmdale, Calif., store clerk put herself within easy reach of the revolver she keeps in the store for protection. When the man exposed himself and threatened to rape her, the clerk responded by firing a single shot from her .357 Mag., prompting the criminal to flee the store.

The Press Democrat, Santa Rosa, CA, 9/4/90
When a 14-year-old girl ran up to him at 2 a.m. and said a man had beaten and was attempting to rape her girlfriend, Robert Pozzi grabbed a shotgun from a friend's office and, accompanied by two other men, went to the bridge where the attack occurred. Pozzi confronted the girl's assailant, who was armed with a broken bottle, and held him for police.

The Daily News, Los Angeles, CA, 6/23/90
A 20-year-old woman, kidnapped from a Los Angeles street and driven to a remote area under threat of death, had her screams answered by a resident of one of the last homes on the road. Sheriff's deputies said the citizen grabbed his gun and ran to the rape victim's aid, ordered the rapist to release the woman, escorted her back to his home and called the police. Her assailant had to flee on foot because the quick-thinking woman pulled the keys out of the ignition.

The Telegram-Tribune, San Luis Obispo County, CA, 10/4/88
A 19-year-old Los Osos, Calif., woman allowed a man in her home after he asked to use the phone. Once inside, however, he attempted to rape her. Breaking free from her assailant, she ran to her bedroom and picked up a shotgun. The would-be rapist fled the house.

The Record, Stockton, CA, 10/16/86
A Stockton, Calif., woman awakened by a noise investigated and found a man coming through the back door of her home. She had armed herself with a pistol and, when the man made a sexual remark, she told him to leave or she would shoot. The would-be rapist fled.

The Daily Californian, Berkeley, CA, 1986
The intruder had already raped the young mother at knifepoint in the presence of her children, and was leading her to another room. While he was distracted, the Lemon Grove, Calif., woman grabbed a handgun. As the rapist approached her with the knife, she fired once, wounding him critically.

The Herald Examiner, Los Angeles, CA, 5/20/81
Hearing a woman's screams coming from the laundromat next to his Downey, Calif., dry cleaning shop, Kim Holsonbach grabbed his pistol and ran to the scene. He found a man holding a knife to a young woman's throat, apparently attempting to rape her. Holsonbach fired three warning shots to no avail, then fired once more, critically wounding the assailant.

The Mercury News, San Jose, CA 1980
A San Jose, Calif., woman was attacked by a would-be rapist who had entered her house through an unlocked window. The woman managed to break free, grab her revolver, and hold her assailant at gunpoint while she called polic

The Sun Telegram, San Bernardino, CA, 1979
Marlee Herrbach was awakened early in the morning when a man entered the bedroom of her San Bernardino, Calif., home. Herrbach grabbed a gun she had purchased as the result of rape three months before and began to struggle with the assailant. Three shots were fired, one of which fatally wounded the intruder. The killing was ruled justifiable.

The Star Free Press, Ventura County, CA 1978
A young Ventura, Calif., woman was awakened when a would-be rapist, who had entered through an open window, ripped the covers off the bed where she was sleeping. After struggling with the assailant, the woman managed to break free, grab her shotgun from the floor and point it at the man, causing him to beat a hasty retreat back out the open window.

The Times, Los Angeles, CA, 1978
Having been raped twice before by the same man, the 51-year-old Los Angeles woman was ready when her attacker broke into her apartment for a third time. Armed since the last assault, the woman drew her handgun when the man entered her bedroom and, following a brief struggle, fatally shot the would-be rapist in the chest.

The Daily Breeze, Torrance, CA, 1976
A would-be rapist grabbed Barbara Sherwood at a Carson, Calif., phone booth, knocked her to the ground and began assaulting her. Sherwood, a sheriff's deputy and member of her department's shooting team, pulled a revolver from her purse and shot her assailant twice, wounding him.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Anonymous

Re: Self Defense [Re: Evolving]
    #1057835 - 11/16/02 11:17 AM (14 years, 27 days ago)

You and I both know that even if it were reported it would not be 'newsworthy'.

Nice thread though.

Cheer,


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OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
Male User Gallery Arcade Champion: Duck Hunt, Enemy Enforcer

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 13,045
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 13 hours, 43 seconds
Re: Self Defense [Re: Evolving]
    #1058537 - 11/16/02 06:48 PM (14 years, 27 days ago)

There are two million incidents each year in which someone uses a leagally owned firearm to protect themselves or their family from criminals or thugs. In the beginning of my American Rifleman magazines there's always about 8 or so recent stories. Also you might enjoy www.goodguyswin.org , a buddy of mine is one of the administrators. They have compiled thousands of stories but only a little over a hundred are online due to the slow process of typing them all in.

Note, edit was to fix url, firs I accidently linked to a photography site...


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


Edited by Ellis Dee (11/16/02 07:27 PM)


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OfflineShrooms4e
LSAuser theScale Whore :)
Registered: 11/13/02
Posts: 160
Last seen: 14 years, 18 days
Re: Self Defense [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1058924 - 11/16/02 10:46 PM (14 years, 27 days ago)

that was one of the questions in self defense class. he said "its better to be alive and go to jail than be dead and the rapist, assilant flee to reach more victims"


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OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
Male User Gallery Arcade Champion: Duck Hunt, Enemy Enforcer

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 13,045
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 13 hours, 43 seconds
Re: Self Defense [Re: Shrooms4e]
    #1058977 - 11/16/02 11:10 PM (14 years, 27 days ago)

There's an old police saying along those lines. "It's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six."


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Anonymous

Re: Self Defense [Re: Evolving]
    #1059080 - 11/17/02 12:12 AM (14 years, 27 days ago)

Psssst, hey buddy, awfully quiet in here, isn't it?

I wonder what it all means.


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Offlinefoghorn
enthusiast
Registered: 12/14/01
Posts: 308
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Self Defense [Re: ]
    #1060003 - 11/17/02 02:32 PM (14 years, 26 days ago)

Mace could also work in most of those situations, couldnt it?

just a thought

dont bombard me with hypothetical situations pls :wink:

***

though i must admit, the sight of mace probably isnt as threatening, but 'self-defenders' would be more open to using it, since it isnt leathal


Edited by foghorn (11/17/02 02:34 PM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,808
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Self Defense [Re: foghorn]
    #1060248 - 11/17/02 05:30 PM (14 years, 26 days ago)

In reply to:

Mace could also work in most of those situations, couldnt it?



No. Mace doesn't have the same effect on everyone. Some fall to the ground. Some just get really pissed.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinefoghorn
enthusiast
Registered: 12/14/01
Posts: 308
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Self Defense [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1060299 - 11/17/02 05:53 PM (14 years, 26 days ago)

a gun could also misfire :wink: but ur right. 


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Self Defense [Re: foghorn]
    #1060829 - 11/17/02 10:03 PM (14 years, 26 days ago)

Guns seldom misfire, but so what if they do? Brakes sometimes go bad on cars, is that any reason not to try and use them when needed?

Try this little test, dial 911 and time how long it takes for the cops to respond. On a different occasion, have someone time you while you pull out a gun and point it (firing isn't necessary). If you know anyone that lives in a ghetto, ask them to do the 911 test. Chances are that it will be even longer than your time if you don't live in a high crime area.

Here's a few more stories for you to digest...

The Post, New York, NY, 5/25/91
Several days after they had first visited Murrey Kahn's jewelry store in New York City, two men returned. When they walked in, they pulled guns, however, and announced a robbery. As one held a gun to Kahn's head, his son Earl, who was in the back of the store, grabbed his licensed pistol. When the two robbers fired at him, Earl Kahn shot back, mortally wounding one. The other crook fled.

Newsday, New York, NY, 9/13/92
World War II veteran William Marisak's best war story comes from the war against crime. While he was tending bar at his Brooklyn tavern, four armed robbers burst in and shot him twice. Marisak responded with his licensed .380, wounding one of the gunmen and putting the others to flight. "If I didn't have a gun, all of us would have been dead," he said.

Times-Union, Rochester, NY, 12/20/94
Rochester, New York, market owner Ali Amireh still carries a bullet lodged next to his heart after being shot in the chest during a 1992 robbery. He was not about to take another one. When two criminals walked into his store and opened fire on Amireh, he drew his own legally owned .38 and shot back. The armed robber was struck once, while the other suspect fled. The incident was the third in Rochester that month where citizens defended themselves. Just two weeks earlier, a restaurant owner shot a bandit during an attemped robbery. In another incident, two city employees being held up in a parking lot pulled their legally carried firearms and shot and killed their assailant. No charges were filed against the crime victims in any of those incidents.

Newsday, Long Island, NY, 2/8/96
Police called Timothy Pastuck a hero after the Queens, New York, man came to the aid of a neighbor being savagely beaten with a baseball bat and steam iron by her boyfriend. Pastuck retrieved his unlicensed .22 cal. Ruger rifle and ordered the batterer to stop, and when the man refused, he shot him three times, wounding him. Despite the accolades from the public and law enforcement, Pastuck was initially charged with attempted murder, assault with a deadly weapon and unlawful possession of a weapon. After 14 hours in jail, the first two charges were dropped. Pastuck then spent 2 1/2 hours in court where the district attorney finally decided to drop the weapons charge. "You try to do the right thing, and the next thing you know you're in the system...I don't know what they want; people, citizens, to react, don't react," said Pastuck.

The Times Union, New York, NY, 10/30/97
After being held up several times, a Bronx, New York, music store owner got a 9 mm Beretta pistol to thwart further attempts. Late one morning he buzzed a supposed customer into his store, but once inside, the man produced a pistol and demanded money. A struggle ensued, and the owner drew his own firearm, whereupon he fatally shot the bandit.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Anonymous

Re: Self Defense [Re: Evolving]
    #1061019 - 11/17/02 11:38 PM (14 years, 26 days ago)

I did notice that your little buddy Alex vanished right after you started posting these stories.

I guess the kitchen was too hot.  Now what are we gonna do for enertainment? :wink:

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

Cheers, 


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Self Defense [Re: ]
    #1061050 - 11/17/02 11:54 PM (14 years, 26 days ago)

In reply to:

Now what are we gonna do for enertainment?



Watch Comedy Central.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Self Defense [Re: Evolving]
    #1061310 - 11/18/02 01:53 AM (14 years, 26 days ago)

Sorry, but posting a page from the NRA site does not an argument make. And you seem to have neglected to post any stories from the 40,000 people who are killed by guns every year. Shall I start posting thousands of those?

By the way, do you have anymore of your "personal stories" evolving? This still remains my favourite lie of yours...remember when you made it up? How is your dear old great aunt by the way? 

:grin: :grin: :grin:

I personally know people who have used arms to successfully thwart violence against themselves and inocents without firing a shot. I am sorry that you are too dense to grasp this concept but it does happen. One example: I have a female friend who came home and was surprised by a rapist waiting in her house, she pulled her handgun out (which she carries on her person) and pointed it at his chest. He turned tail and ran (no shots fired). Contrast this with my great aunt who was 82, living alone and deathly afraid of guns, she was discovered by her neighbor, naked, beaten and raped and lying in a coma for two days after the eighteen year old intruder had left the scene (but your twisted logic implies that this wouldn't happen because she wasn't armed).

Oh it still brings a tear to my eye even now... :grin:


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


Edited by Alex123 (11/18/02 01:55 AM)


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Self Defense [Re: ]
    #1061334 - 11/18/02 02:01 AM (14 years, 26 days ago)

I did notice that your little buddy Alex vanished

I have a life man. Maybe you should consider getting one?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
Male User Gallery Arcade Champion: Duck Hunt, Enemy Enforcer

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 13,045
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 13 hours, 43 seconds
Re: Self Defense [Re: Xlea321]
    #1061349 - 11/18/02 02:07 AM (14 years, 26 days ago)

You're one sick puppy to make fun at someones aunt being raped.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


Edited by Ellis Dee (11/18/02 02:08 AM)


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: Self Defense [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1061369 - 11/18/02 02:18 AM (14 years, 26 days ago)

LOL!

Pretty hard when the story never happened rail. I think someone who would make something like that up is the truly sick puppy.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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OfflineEllis Dee
Archangel
Male User Gallery Arcade Champion: Duck Hunt, Enemy Enforcer

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 13,045
Loc: Fire in the sky
Last seen: 13 hours, 43 seconds
Re: Self Defense [Re: Xlea321]
    #1061392 - 11/18/02 02:33 AM (14 years, 26 days ago)

Why do you think it never happened? People get raped everyday, especially when they don't have their gun handy and are otherwise defenceless. Afterall there's nothing like unarmed women to rape...

I could tell you stories of things I've seen tht you'de probably think were made up, especialy a lot of things with computers and cars... And some real life violence and accidents where people were seriously hurt. I won't start telling those things now, but the point is that if I posted them you'de probably say it was made up as well.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Offlinefoghorn
enthusiast
Registered: 12/14/01
Posts: 308
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Self Defense [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1061444 - 11/18/02 02:58 AM (14 years, 26 days ago)

sorry I thought grown ups were having a conversation


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,733
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 4 months, 4 days
Re: Self Defense [Re: foghorn]
    #1061694 - 11/18/02 05:08 AM (14 years, 26 days ago)

Yawwnn. This arguement grows tedious. I'll just kick back and wait for evolution to weed you gun toting lunatics out. see ya! :grin: 


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Self Defense [Re: Evolving]
    #1061825 - 11/18/02 08:47 AM (14 years, 26 days ago)

great post evolving, but i hate to tell you the libbies will never agree with you. You could say 2+2=4 and they'd argue with you about it. They're not that bright.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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