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Anonymous

Waking Life
    #1057830 - 11/16/02 11:10 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I heard about the movie Waking Life from a few of the members here so I decided to rent it and watch it.

It's one of those esoteric movies with a lot of 'inner meaning'. I won't spoil it for those who haven't seen it other than to say this.

While I thoroughly enjoy movies of that type, I own quite a few, I am always amazed at what gets bandied about as truth. This movie contains so many philosophical view points that virtually anyone can attach themselves to one or a few and think they have come away with something special.

What I disliked was not so much the movie but the way many of the characters seem to 'know' with certitude the theories of which they speak. I find that sickening.

Flaw after philosophical flaw appears in an endless charade of nonsense so fast that it is dizzying.

If you want a good time and you like to think about 'deep truths' buy it or rent it and you'll have a good time. Just don't mistake the viewpoints as truth. They aren't.

Cheers,


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InvisibleSclorch
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Posts: 4,805
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Re: Waking Life [Re: ]
    #1058289 - 11/16/02 04:41 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

ATTENTION: If you haven't seen the movie, don't read my post.

Now Mr. Mush... I agree with you, however I loved that movie. I didn't like the "lucid dream" thing nor did I like much of the arguments in general. However, it was something different and original. That animation style is so expressive and beautiful... I'd like to see it in a movie with a more pronounced plot (whereas Waking Life is more like a string of conversations).

I didn't see the movie as a "this is how it is"... I saw it as a "thinking for yourself is not only acceptable... it is preferred"

I really liked a few characters/scenes (for varying reasons):

* the "captain" guy with the boat car
* the guy driving around screaming through his PA system (I like alot of what he said)
* the girl in the subway said something about people and ants (can't remember it word for word)
* the two guys sitting at a table outdoors (outside a coffeeshop?)
* the professor that spoke about existentialism


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Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineMurex
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Registered: 07/28/02
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Re: Waking Life [Re: Sclorch]
    #1058346 - 11/16/02 05:14 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

This movie was great! It's good because it lets you see things from another point of view, it doesn't have to be right or wrong- it just makes you think.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineAdamist
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Posts: 10,211
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Re: Waking Life [Re: Sclorch]
    #1058426 - 11/16/02 05:57 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I didn't see the movie as a "this is how it is"... I saw it as a "thinking for yourself is not only acceptable... it is preferred"

I totally agree with you there... I don't think they were saying "this is the truth, so believe it" but rather "this could be the truth... now try and disprove it." If watched with the Think For Yourself mentality, Waking Life is quite an enlightening movie.

PS: nice to see you around Mr Mushrooms.  :laugh: 


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Invisiblexganon
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Re: Waking Life [Re: ]
    #1058437 - 11/16/02 06:02 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

That's the point. There's this endless parade of concepts being expressed as 'higher truth', but the 'real' meaning can only be found by waking up. Reminds me of Illuminatus now that I think back on it. So much contradictory bullshit squeezed into the same worldview that the worldview bursts open like it's been injected with literary psilocybin. I read it after DXM but before shrooms BTW.


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Please remove all dollar signs from my listed contact information


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Anonymous

Re: Waking Life [Re: Sclorch]
    #1059361 - 11/17/02 02:33 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

In some sense I loved the movie too but it was probably more of a love/hate type thing due to the various viewpoints.

I really do like esoteric films since I first saw My Dinner with Andre in the mid-eighties.  Since then I have seen and own many of them.  The thing that niggles me is the certitude, as I said earlier.  I find anyone who claims to 'know the truth' with that kind of sureness appalling.  I don't care whether it is Jimmy Swaggert or Richard Dawkins that sort of self-assured cockiness is off-putting for me.  Musically I liken it to elitism whether it be a jazz aficionado hung up on Monk or the subtraction that Miles uses or the analytical logic found in Mozart or 'holiness' of Bach.  Elitism sucks and so does certitude.  That is not to say that I do not think there are things we can be sure of but I do think, as I have stated repeatedly, that there are few things like that.

As xganon said the 'point' of the movie is clear.  However it is my concern that those that are unschooled or not prone to thinking deeply will fall into one of those philosophies and mistake it for the truth.  I have been through most of them as phases and feel I was lucky to get out.

My favorite character is the Dalmatian that is barking before he goes into the house to talk to the girl with the blonde hair.  He made more sense than the rest.

I laughed when you said that you liked the guy with the speakers on his car.  I actually thought of you when I saw that part because of the 'incident'.  :grin:

My least favorite, among so many, was the artsy idiot on the bridge with the afro.  Having many artistic friends I have heard that kind of drivel for years and it makes me want to run screaming from the room.  As you know, I prefer logic.  He seemed to have little of that. :smirk:

Cheers, 


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Anonymous

Re: Waking Life [Re: Adamist]
    #1059368 - 11/17/02 02:39 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Nice to see you posting too Adamist. I was concerned when you left and thought you were upset because I jokingly acted as a schoolmaster. I have been around but not posting too much for a couple of reasons. First I have been too busy with other commitments and secondly I wasn't sure if my presence was affecting the participation in the forum. This isn't the 'Plato' show. It's supposed to be a place where Shroomerites can discuss some of the more intellectual concepts that they are interested in. You guys got along just fine before I came here.

Cheers,


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Waking Life [Re: ]
    #1059376 - 11/17/02 02:46 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

However it is my concern that those that are unschooled or not prone to thinking deeply will fall into one of those philosophies and mistake it for the truth.

That's their problem. If it can persuade them to think differently, it is a step in the right direction. If they believe in it so blindly, let them- it's probably better than what they used to believe. Change is good (imo).

:wink:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Anonymous

Re: Waking Life [Re: Murex]
    #1059409 - 11/17/02 03:13 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks guys.

Yeah Murex you're right. But I still worry about things like that because of what it did to me.

I have seen know-it-all atheists 'find the Lord' and turn into know-it-all 'Christians'. Then I think, "what's the difference?"

The fact is that our dharma is no one else's and no one else's dharma is ours. I need to let it go.

Cheers,


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OfflineAdamist
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Re: Waking Life [Re: ]
    #1059417 - 11/17/02 03:20 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

However it is my concern that those that are unschooled or not prone to thinking deeply will fall into one of those philosophies and mistake it for the truth.

Heh, I doubt that someone not prone to thinking "deeply" would even be able to comprehend what the movie is trying to express. 

(edit) But then again, that's just Deep Spiritual Elitist talk.  :tongue:


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


Edited by Adamist (11/17/02 03:22 AM)


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InvisibleMiddlemanM
on sabbatical

Registered: 07/12/99
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Re: Waking Life [Re: Sclorch]
    #1059696 - 11/17/02 07:42 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

In reply to:

* the guy driving around screaming through his PA system (I like alot of what he said)




his name is Alex Jones.
there are some free full length documentaries at his site; Infowars.com


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OfflineMycoThaikoh
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Post deleted by Moe Howard [Re: Adamist]
    #1059928 - 11/17/02 01:11 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)



--------------------


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Waking Life [Re: MycoThaikoh]
    #1060339 - 11/17/02 06:18 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I think you'd have to be pretty damn dumb or maybe just really intoxicated to not be able to understand it.

I agree.  :wink:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineAdamist
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Posts: 10,211
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Re: Waking Life [Re: MycoThaikoh]
    #1060723 - 11/17/02 09:25 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Heh, well I must admit I did watch it when I was pretty intoxicated, so maybe that's why I remember it being so complex. I'm going to watch it again soon soberly.  :cool: 


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:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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OfflineMurex
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Re: Waking Life [Re: Adamist]
    #1060920 - 11/17/02 10:55 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

I suppose watching it on a low to moderate dose of LSD or shrooms would be interesting.

:wink:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineMsPacMan
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Re: Waking Life [Re: ]
    #1061615 - 11/18/02 04:17 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

sweet. someone told me about this movie, and i forgot what it was called.


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OfflineTeKHeAD009
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Re: Waking Life [Re: MycoThaikoh]
    #1064367 - 11/19/02 12:15 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

All those theories,ideas,and philosophies were already in his head, he knew them subconsciously.

I agree with that. The idea of how the people acted/spoke, and whether or not they were correct in their theories didn't matter. It was all created by the person who was dreaming it. He only listened to the theories, he didnt agree, disagree, or partake in conversation.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: Waking Life [Re: ]
    #1071772 - 11/20/02 11:52 PM (14 years, 3 months ago)

The guy on the bridge was making a pretty clear straight-forward point, he was just using silly language.

He was saying that he doesn't understand how the universe works, and that he knows he never can. He said it's great. He goes "salsa dancing with his confusion".

There are lots of ideas in the movie that conflict. That was the whole point. Some of the speakers were psychology professors, and a lot of the ideas that are talked about seem to be lifted from a first year philosophy text.



--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


Edited by Phluck (11/20/02 11:53 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Waking Life [Re: Phluck]
    #1072376 - 11/21/02 02:50 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

Hearing him talk set my teeth on edge. I've heard that kind of drivel too many times to listen closely. His final point was that self-realization was knowing that you are someone else's dream or some sort of nonsense.

Yes, an intro course is more like it. Lots of nonsense for the uninitiate.
Yuck!


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InvisiblePhoshaman
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Re: Waking Life [Re: MsPacMan]
    #1072478 - 11/21/02 03:23 AM (14 years, 3 months ago)

... then however did you remember?


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