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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Iran [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #10569880 - 06/25/09 10:13 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Iran is what America would look like if the Jesus-Freak Wing of your party was given free reign.

It scares the shit out of me.





dont be scared, we had a jesus freak in the white house for 8 years and we can still hold hands in public...


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Iran [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #10570087 - 06/25/09 11:03 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Iran is what America would look like if the Jesus-Freak Wing of your party was given free reign.

It scares the shit out of me.




It's clear you don't get out much..

Either that or you're the most gullible fucker that ever lived.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Iran [Re: THC Titan]
    #10570208 - 06/25/09 11:27 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

THC Titan said:
Quote:

THC Titan said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I already said what I would do.  Try reading my posts.




You said
Quote:

Useless empty suit doing nothing for freedom.


which implies he should be actively doing something for Iranian freedom. You also said
Quote:

The President is most definitely not a good will ambassador.


so what is it you would actually do besides reassure them the world is watching and deplore the violence that has so far been inflicted on citizens? I didn't get any specifics out of your posts on the last page.







Why are you so lazy?
Quote:





Quote:

zappaisgod said:What I don't understand is why these mullahs insisted on rigging an already rigged election that had only hand picked clones in contention.  Really there is not one bit of difference between Moussavi
Anmadinejad.




Experts on Iran and the Middle East suggest Khamenei has significantly more influence over Ahmadinejad, which is why he would be reluctant to allow Moussavi the status of president. There's also the unsteady relationship between the current Supreme Leader and Moussavi that has existed for decades.



Link?
Quote:



There are some differences between Ahmadinejad and Moussavi - I mean, they aren't the same on every issue. Moussavi appears to be more in touch with the younger generation of Iranians who want to see a less extremist foreign policy, for instance.



Link?


--------------------

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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
Re: Iran [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #10570557 - 06/25/09 12:32 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Iran is what America would look like if the Jesus-Freak Wing of your party was given free reign.

It scares the shit out of me.




It's clear you don't get out much..

Either that or you're the most gullible fucker that ever lived.





Maybe the Amish and the Mormons could unite and then they could figure out Time Travel! they could use time travel to figure out advanced Alien Technology and use that to take over the White and and our Nuclear weapons —  :eek:



SCARES THE SHIT OUT OF ME!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
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Re: Iran [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #10571925 - 06/25/09 04:05 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Iran is what America would look like if the Jesus-Freak Wing of your party was given free reign.

It scares the shit out of me.




It's clear you don't get out much..

Either that or you're the most gullible fucker that ever lived.




Sorry, Fundie Retards are Fundie Retards, whether they call their prophet Jesus or Mohammed doesn't make a lick of difference to me.

Feel free to think that your particular brand is benevolent if you like, but I think that shows quite clearly which of us is ridiculously gullible.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Iran [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #10571954 - 06/25/09 04:08 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Some fundie retards are more murderous than other fundie retards.  You can't seriously deny that.


--------------------

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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Iran [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10572001 - 06/25/09 04:16 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Some fundie retards are more murderous than other fundie retards.  You can't seriously deny that.




The fuck I can't.

Listen, there is nothing inherently compassionate or kind about Christianity.  No more than any of the other traditional monotheistic religions.  There has been just as much, if not more, wicked and evil shit done in the name of Jesus as in that of Allah or Jahweh.

Can you deny THAT?

The afforementioned fundie retards in those shit-hole sand kingdoms over there may seem much more vicious, but it's only a function of what they can get away with.  Take away the civilizing and moderating hand of governmental authority and societal morality and any group of religious nut-jobs are sure to resort to all manner of savagery against anyone who doesn't agree with them in no fucking time flat.

If the American Government weren't prosecuting people for killing them it would in short order be open season on abortion doctors.  And then fags.  And then probably anyone who wasn't white.

No, as I said, fundie retards are fundie retards.  Your home-town team is the same as any of them.

It's 102 degrees and I don't have air conditioning.  I'm going to lie in the shower with a six-pack of beer.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Iran [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #10572652 - 06/25/09 06:18 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Some fundie retards are more murderous than other fundie retards.  You can't seriously deny that.




The fuck I can't.

Listen, there is nothing inherently compassionate or kind about Christianity.  No more than any of the other traditional monotheistic religions.  There has been just as much, if not more, wicked and evil shit done in the name of Jesus as in that of Allah or Jahweh.

Can you deny THAT?




You seem to be hung up on dead Christian fundie retards who can't murder anymore.  They're dead.  They can't hurt you.  The current murdering fundie retards are overwhelmingly Muslim.  They want to hurt you now. 
Quote:



The afforementioned fundie retards in those shit-hole sand kingdoms over there may seem much more vicious, but it's only a function of what they can get away with.  Take away the civilizing and moderating hand of governmental authority and societal morality and any group of religious nut-jobs are sure to resort to all manner of savagery against anyone who doesn't agree with them in no fucking time flat.


  They seem more vicious because they are.
Quote:


If the American Government weren't prosecuting people for killing them it would in short order be open season on abortion doctors.  And then fags.  And then probably anyone who wasn't white.




There are assholes.  If there weren't(sic) the American Government and its laws I would own you as a sex slave.  What's your point?
Quote:



No, as I said, fundie retards are fundie retards.  Your home-town team is the same as any of them.

It's 102 degrees and I don't have air conditioning.  I'm going to lie in the shower with a six-pack of beer.




I'm an atheist, as you well know.  I don't have a hometown team.  Except for beer, which is just a slightly lesser god from zappa.


--------------------

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Iran [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #10572674 - 06/25/09 06:21 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Iran is what America would look like if the Jesus-Freak Wing of your party was given free reign.

It scares the shit out of me.




It's clear you don't get out much..

Either that or you're the most gullible fucker that ever lived.




Sorry, Fundie Retards are Fundie Retards, whether they call their prophet Jesus or Mohammed doesn't make a lick of difference to me.

Feel free to think that your particular brand is benevolent if you like, but I think that shows quite clearly which of us is ridiculously gullible.




My particular brand is Atheism.

So what now? Want to say something else stupid?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineMadtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
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Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
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Re: Iran [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #10573195 - 06/25/09 07:59 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I don't give two shits if you're a Zoroastrian.

Everything I said is valid, as I gather you've realized since you're arguing about which god you (don't) believe in rather than any actual refutation.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisibleRationalEgo
Principium Individuationis

Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,096
Loc: Boston
Re: Iran [Re: Redstorm]
    #10574710 - 06/26/09 01:12 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
He needs to stop calling it the Islamic Republic of Iran. One of those words just don't fit.




It should be the Islamic Clerical Dictatorship of Iran.

If Iran was the target after 9/11, a war would've been justified.

I think its important to note that the dissedent people of Iran are not protesting against the system at large, it is but a minor dispute on which puppet leader they would prefer. This will all blow over and Iran will still be a major threat.

I agree with John McCain when he said. "Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran".

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Iran [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #10575240 - 06/26/09 04:40 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
I don't give two shits if you're a Zoroastrian.

Everything I said is valid, as I gather you've realized since you're arguing about which god you (don't) believe in rather than any actual refutation.




Thanks for not disappointing.


Of course I'm not sure you could top:

Quote:

Iran is what America would look like if the Jesus-Freak Wing of your party was given free reign.




--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlinezouden
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Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
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Re: Iran [Re: RationalEgo]
    #10575384 - 06/26/09 06:18 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

RationalEgo said:
I think its important to note that the dissedent people of Iran are not protesting against the system at large, it is but a minor dispute on which puppet leader they would prefer.




How do you know? It seems to me that since they're protesting at the election being rigged, they want proper democracy. The fact that they are supporting one puppet over another is just because he's the only other candidate.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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InvisibleRationalEgo
Principium Individuationis

Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,096
Loc: Boston
Re: Iran [Re: zouden]
    #10575727 - 06/26/09 09:01 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Quote:

RationalEgo said:
I think its important to note that the dissedent people of Iran are not protesting against the system at large, it is but a minor dispute on which puppet leader they would prefer.




How do you know? It seems to me that since they're protesting at the election being rigged, they want proper democracy. The fact that they are supporting one puppet over another is just because he's the only other candidate.




If you know anything about Iranian politics it is that the head of state has no real power. The real power is held by the clerics. Democracy is a sham if you are just replacing one powerless head of state with another. It is also a sham when the country does not support proper individual rights and instead implements sharia law.

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OfflineTHC Titan
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Re: Iran [Re: RationalEgo]
    #10575768 - 06/26/09 09:17 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

RationalEgo said:
If you know anything about Iranian politics it is that the head of state has no real power. The real power is held by the clerics. Democracy is a sham if you are just replacing one powerless head of state with another. It is also a sham when the country does not support proper individual rights and instead implements sharia law.




The chants of "death to dictator" and "death to Khamenei" seem to provide evidence that there is a large presence of pro-democracy, pro-reform citizens who are not just protesting the results of the election, but the structure of Iran's government itself. Questioning the leadership of Khamenei, whose power is supposed to be divinely ordained by God, is an unprecedented show of defiance. In addition, the continuing solidarity of the protesters through violent crackdowns on peaceful protests has shown that many people are not going to forget about the violations of democratic rights that have taken place.

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InvisibleRationalEgo
Principium Individuationis

Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,096
Loc: Boston
Re: Iran [Re: THC Titan]
    #10575791 - 06/26/09 09:24 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

THC Titan said:
Quote:

RationalEgo said:
If you know anything about Iranian politics it is that the head of state has no real power. The real power is held by the clerics. Democracy is a sham if you are just replacing one powerless head of state with another. It is also a sham when the country does not support proper individual rights and instead implements sharia law.




The chants of "death to dictator" and "death to Khamenei" seem to provide evidence that there is a large presence of pro-democracy, pro-reform citizens who are not just protesting the results of the election, but the structure of Iran's government itself. In addition, the continuing solidarity of the protesters through violent crackdowns on peaceful protests has shown that many people are not going to forget about the violations of democratic rights that have taken place.




I have mentioned elsewhere that I support the dissent and hope that the people do want to change the whole system and this is not just a dispute about which dictator they want to have as head of state. That being said given the evidence I have serious doubts and reservations about whether the Iranian people truly want freedom.

I am not de facto pro democracy. I do not believe, like Bush does, that democracy is anything substantial in its conception. Individual rights are much more important. If anything (and I mean that as a big IF) we should propagate Jeffersonian republicanism. I do not however think it is our duty to do so. Only if it is in our best interest and an actual obtainable goal should we bother.

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OfflineTHC Titan
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Re: Iran [Re: RationalEgo]
    #10575850 - 06/26/09 09:40 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

RationalEgo said:
I have mentioned elsewhere that I support the dissent and hope that the people do want to change the whole system and this is not just a dispute about which dictator they want to have as head of state. That being said given the evidence I have serious doubts and reservations about whether the Iranian people truly want freedom.




Why? If all dictators are the same, surely they would have dispersed on the first day after the riot police starting beating people to death.

Quote:

I am not de facto pro democracy. I do not believe, like Bush does, that democracy is anything substantial in its conception. Individual rights are much more important. If anything (and I mean that as a big IF) we should propagate Jeffersonian republicanism. I do not however think it is our duty to do so. Only if it is in our best interest and an actual obtainable goal should we bother.




Democracy protects individual rights better than an autocracy does: open, public discussion; social participation; incentives for government to respond to citizens; strong opposition parties. You are right that democracy itself is not a de facto guarantee that political freedoms will be properly institutionalized, however, I believe it opens up the possibility of doing so.

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InvisibleRationalEgo
Principium Individuationis

Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 2,096
Loc: Boston
Re: Iran [Re: THC Titan]
    #10575879 - 06/26/09 09:50 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

THC Titan said:
Why? If all dictators are the same, surely they would have dispersed on the first day after the riot police starting beating people to death.





Not if they think their choice of dictator will protect their interests better when it comes to persuading the clerics in policy decisions.

Quote:


Democracy protects individual rights better than an autocracy does: open, public discussion; social participation; incentives for government to respond to citizens; strong opposition parties. You are right that democracy itself is not a de facto guarantee that political freedoms will be properly institutionalized, however, I believe it opens up the possibility of doing so.




I agree with this to some extent, however, as we can see in places like Palestine, democratic elections do not protect against harmful groups getting power, in fact it facilitates the process. Instead of an armed struggle, all they need is either to convince the people or rig an election. what one needs to protect individual rights is an explicit constitution that enshrines them. Democracy is just the whim of the masses.

Edited by RationalEgo (06/26/09 11:23 AM)

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OfflineYrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Iran [Re: RationalEgo]
    #10576178 - 06/26/09 11:08 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

what bothers me about this whole iran debacle are the reasons given for the huge amount of attention the events are getting from the media.  "the people are trying to break free, we must cover the story." 

bullshit.

where were the reports a month ago when the peruvian government basically sold off indigenous people's land to foreign corporations, and then massacred the protesters who stood against it? 

http://www.zmag.org/blog/view/3343

corporate media is a joke.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root

Edited by Yrat (06/26/09 01:43 PM)

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