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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
"I am what I am and that's all that I am."
    #10565680 - 06/24/09 06:01 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

This is not true, but if you want to limit yourself with self-definitions then be my guest. The fact is that you are what you do. Moment to moment you have a choice to act skillfully. In your mind you can strive to center constantly and you will make progress. Neural plasticity will form happier and more open pathways if you keep making an effort.

So you can hide behind excuses of human nature and unhealthy upbringing as long as you want. This is self indulgence.

If you want to be happy as a Buddha, then start acting like a Buddha.

You will soon start seeing more clearly how you create your own suffering and which actions and thought-patterns lead to increased happiness and wellbeing.

There is peace. All you have to do is reach for it and strive for it. Don't get complacent when you are happy, but keep walking the path.

And stop bitching please. Put out joy when your joyful and see it reflected back at you in an increasing feedback-loop. IF AND WHEN you are DEPRESSED I advice you to keep your mouth shut and your fingers off the keyboard until you are filled with something worth infecting onto others.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: rebus_minus]
    #10565693 - 06/24/09 06:04 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

You gotta love a thread that starts off with a strawman. :rolleyes:


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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10565760 - 06/24/09 06:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

You gotta love a guy like you because you really need it.


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OfflineRocker232
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10565804 - 06/24/09 06:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
You gotta love a thread that starts off with a strawman. :rolleyes:




No all posts should be as depressing and emo as your own.


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With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: rebus_minus]
    #10565841 - 06/24/09 06:29 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

rebus_minus said:
This is not true, but if you want to limit yourself with self-definitions then be my guest. The fact is that you are what you do.


You tell me that its stupid to limit myself to definitions then you go on to define who I am? how is the original quote not true? You're only rebuttal is that you say it isn't, but you offer no reasons as to why. "the fact of the mater..." really? that's  a fact? First of all that's unverifiable it's an opinion, and second of all, you have offered barely any reason for me to believe it.

Quote:

Moment to moment you have a choice to act skillfully. In your mind you can strive to center constantly and you will make progress. Neural plasticity will form happier and more open pathways if you keep making an effort.




Quote:

So you can hide behind excuses of human nature and unhealthy upbringing as long as you want. This is self indulgence.


No, this is a misinterpretation of the quote


Quote:

You will soon start seeing more clearly how you create your own suffering and which actions and thought-patterns lead to increased happiness and wellbeing.

There is peace. All you have to do is reach for it and strive for it. Don't get complacent when you are happy, but keep walking the path.



i dont know what to say
Quote:

And stop bitching please. Put out joy when your joyful and see it reflected back at you in an increasing feedback-loop. IF AND WHEN you are DEPRESSED I advice you to keep your mouth shut and your fingers off the keyboard until you are filled with something worth infecting onto others.


i see...


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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: Rocker232]
    #10565848 - 06/24/09 06:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

There is a wall there that is in opposition to everything. That is my not so educated guess from my own experiences with depression and cynicism.

Obvously skepticism has its' purpose, but when it becomes an obstacle to true happiness instead of a way to critically investigate ideas it has maybe gone too far?

I don't know anything about Orgones' private life, but I do know that if one lives skillfully the bliss of xtc/mdma can become the reality one lives in without having to do the drugs in the first place.

It is all in how one choose to prioritize IN MY OPINION and experience.


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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: learningtofly]
    #10565867 - 06/24/09 06:32 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

That's okay. Do as Thou Wilt Shall be the Whole of the Law.

Maybe I misrepresented the quote, but the message is still there.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: rebus_minus]
    #10565881 - 06/24/09 06:34 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

That was a minor part of my reply, please tell refer to the first part


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Invisiblerebus_minus
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: learningtofly]
    #10565916 - 06/24/09 06:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I think that first part seemed to indicate that you projected something I did not say. I do not define you. I am just using rhetorics to say that one shouldn't limit oneself by self-definitions but take responsibility for ones' actions and realize that what you do moment to moment will become you.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: rebus_minus]
    #10565934 - 06/24/09 06:43 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

rebus_minus said:
The fact is that you are what you do. .



Really, you didn't define me?

Not only did you define me, you offered no evidence as to why the original did not stand true


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Edited by learningtofly (06/24/09 06:44 PM)


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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: learningtofly]
    #10565962 - 06/24/09 06:49 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Reflect on it and tell me why it is not true then. Or look elsewhere. It doesn't really matter to me. :smile:


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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: rebus_minus]
    #10566074 - 06/24/09 07:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

One thing I actually do know about Orgone's private life is that he has stated that he did meditation and yoga daily for 10 years and all he got out of it was good health. This is very strange to me, but I guess some people are just more hardheaded and more resistant to the immense benefits of the practice. I stayed one weekend at a retreat and came out so blissed out that I couldn't stop laughing and singing for hours.

Of course I had to go through dark times on my way there. Seemed like some blockages were removed. Maybe some people just give up before they reach this, and therefore automatically conclude that the practice does not really work.

It is puzzling.

For all I know he is super happy though and posting here out of compassion. I don't understand how a happy mind could go on day after day with all that bickering, but who am I to judge?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: rebus_minus]
    #10566136 - 06/24/09 07:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Don't get complacent when you are happy, but keep walking the path.

How foolish to think that happiness is not the goal and end of the path.:satansmoking:

It must be nice (dumb) to be young and innocent.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (06/24/09 07:30 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: rebus_minus]
    #10566144 - 06/24/09 07:32 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

rebus_minus said:
One thing I actually do know about Orgone's private life is that he has stated that he did meditation and yoga daily for 10 years and all he got out of it was good health. This is very strange to me, but I guess some people are just more hardheaded and more resistant to the immense benefits of the practice. I stayed one weekend at a retreat and came out so blissed out that I couldn't stop laughing and singing for hours.

Of course I had to go through dark times on my way there. Seemed like some blockages were removed. Maybe some people just give up before they reach this, and therefore automatically conclude that the practice does not really work.

It is puzzling.

For all I know he is super happy though and posting here out of compassion. I don't understand how a happy mind could go on day after day with all that bickering, but who am I to judge?





No you're just an old soul and so far closer to enlightenment then the rest.:crazy2:

Of course I had to go through dark times on my way there.

I'll bet.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblejustamonkey
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: rebus_minus]
    #10566168 - 06/24/09 07:38 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

rebus_minus said:
You gotta love a guy like you because you really need it.




Orgone is just a professional button masher. You gotta love him. I mean, lets not get all angsty (I know, its not a word) about how some of us choose to be happy.

He may be perfectly happy irritating the hell out of every other individual he meets, and if so, that's his business.

At least he's good at what he likes.

Besides, there's nothing that says you deserve happiness and joy just because you try to spread it around. My wife observed this today, when she gave a small child in Greece some food who was begging, and the child's parents threw the food to the dogs. (They were after Euros, probably for drugs or alcohol or worse, since the food was obviously not necessary to them.)

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions." -Unknown


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[quote]We don't need anyone to teach us sorcery, because there is really nothing to learn. What we need is a teacher to convince us that there is incalculable power at our fingertips. What a strange paradox! Every warrior on the path of knowledge thinks, at one time or another, that he's learning sorcery, but all he's doing is allowing himself to be convinced of the power hidden in his being, and that he can reach it. [/quote]-Carlos Casteneda


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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: Icelander]
    #10566368 - 06/24/09 08:19 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

You misunderstand me. I am saying do not stop making skillful choices when you are happy, but keep going in the direction of happiness.

And I do not believe in a soul. Please don't project so much.


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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: justamonkey]
    #10566384 - 06/24/09 08:22 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

The road to hell is not paved with good intentions. That is just a saying. :smile:

But yes, I agree, Orgone is great at what he does. Some things he might not have so much talent for though. Like meditation.


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Invisiblerebus_minus
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: Icelander]
    #10566405 - 06/24/09 08:25 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
It must be nice (dumb) to be young and innocent.




It must be peaceful to be over 50, wise and mature.


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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: Icelander]
    #10566435 - 06/24/09 08:32 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I agree that happiness is the goal of the path. I just don't think one reaches that goal by focusing on the negative and by projecting aggression and anger.

A mind focused on suffering is in suffering. It would also be unwise to suffer because the world and people in it do not meet your high expectations.


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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: Icelander]
    #10566446 - 06/24/09 08:36 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Don't you just wish you had the opportunity to follow your knee-jerk reaction and rate me a zero and tell me how dumb and naive I am to believe true happiness can actually be reached?


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: rebus_minus]
    #10566464 - 06/24/09 08:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

rebus_minus said:
Reflect on it and tell me why it is not true then. Or look elsewhere. It doesn't really matter to me. :smile:




You obviously have no idea how to have a proper debate. If you present an idea, poorly I might add, it is not my duty to back it up for you. You have access to the internet, google Burden of Proof


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Invisiblerebus_minus
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: learningtofly]
    #10566483 - 06/24/09 08:41 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

That's true. I am not so good in debates. Hope you'll forgive me.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: rebus_minus]
    #10566486 - 06/24/09 08:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

It's common sense. Why should I respond to your argument if you haven't presented a decent one? Until you do, the status quo wins.


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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: learningtofly]
    #10566554 - 06/24/09 08:57 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I am not here to win or lose. And you don't have to respond to anything.

I just decided to present a few ideas sparked at the retreat about how much our moment to moment choices actually have an effect on our happiness.

But I am sure you are the winner of our little debate. No worries.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: rebus_minus]
    #10566605 - 06/24/09 09:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

No, once again. If you are really here to gain knowledge then why not present your ideas better? I shot your ideas down because I dont think you presented a decent argument as to why "I am what I am, and that's all i am" is wrong.

And instead of refuting that or adding more info, you just complain about it.


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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: learningtofly]
    #10566637 - 06/24/09 09:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Sorry, I don't have the will to fight for it. It is not that important to me. Sorry for presenting them in the first place. I was just really happy and wanted to share what I thought could be insights someone could relate to.


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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: Icelander]
    #10566731 - 06/24/09 09:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:

Of course I had to go through dark times on my way there.

I'll bet.




Yeah, Saturday brought up so much anger and hate and I wanted to quit the retreat. But after encouragement from my lady I went in on Sunday and it was a fantastic day. I am not saying that I am further along the path or anything. Like I said, that is your own projections. If I believed in a soul I would think I was among the young ones anyway. :lol:


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Invisiblerebus_minus
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: learningtofly]
    #10566738 - 06/24/09 09:37 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I can add that I did not bother to debate with you because you seem to be quarreling and your only intention was to shoot me down. We have too different ways of thinking to debate and I believe we would both waste our time since none of us will gain anything.


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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: Icelander]
    #10566917 - 06/24/09 10:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
How foolish to think that happiness is not the goal and end of the path.:satansmoking:

It must be nice (dumb) to be young and innocent.




First you claim the goal and end of the path to be happiness.

Then you judge me as dumb and innocent.

If I say I was in bliss, does that mean I am further on that path to happiness you speak of?

Would it be very bad to be innocent and in bliss if the goal of the path was happiness?

You can pride yourself on being smart and cynical all you want, but if you are keeping yourself off the path to happiness then aren't you the dumb one?


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: rebus_minus]
    #10568240 - 06/25/09 02:22 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Being smart and cynical may either A. be a path to happiness or B. make him/her happy. What do you say to that?


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: rebus_minus]
    #10568349 - 06/25/09 02:41 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sorry for presenting them in the first place. I was just really happy and wanted to share what I thought could be insights someone could relate to.




Hey, that's cool.:thumbup: but I think the problem is that your original post took a meaningful phrase and presented it as limiting.

We are what we are. Are we more than what we are? We may be more than what we think we are, but that's not the statement in question. I am, what I am. I am. How could it be otherwise?

And you butchered another one. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. There is a point behind it regarding how motivations can do harm to the self when the intention was otherwise. I see it all the time, and have experienced it myself more often that I would like to admit. It's not just something people say.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


“Avalanches start as snowflakes. Little things matter.”


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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: learningtofly]
    #10568806 - 06/25/09 04:09 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I agree. More power to him then.


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Invisiblerebus_minus
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 667
Re: [Re: Rahz]
    #10568841 - 06/25/09 04:20 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

You're right of course. The original post was sloppy, I admit it. At the same time it is read in the wrong way by many who don't understand my way with words. Must be an American thing. They don't understand the English language. :rofl: Some don't even read the threads and respond to their own projections instead of what is actually written, or they will be so eager and not read the whole thread before responding to something that is covered a few posts down. Maybe I am projecting now though. :smile:

You are never a fixed self in my opinion. You can change any minute and you change through actions. I recommend everyone to adopt a belief in free will no matter whether their logic tells them otherwise. Just for practical purposes, to help form ones own life into something worth enjoying. I was just using the popeye quote for fun, didn't really think it was vital for the insight I tried to convey.

And of course I understand the true meaning of the road to hell being paved with good intentions. What we want is skillful, good intentions. And we need discernment and mindfulness to separate unskillful from skillful intentions. Maybe this whole thread was an unskillful, but good intention.


Edited by rebus_minus (06/25/09 04:30 AM)


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OfflineBooby
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: rebus_minus]
    #10569279 - 06/25/09 07:28 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

rebus_minus said:
(I) wanted to share what I thought could be insights someone could relate to.



Quote:

rebus_minus said:
(One should) take responsibility for ones' actions and realize that what you do moment to moment will become you.




In the case of spiritual posession, the responsibility for ones' actions lays where?

I assume we're all on the road to insight, thankyou for yours.

edit: We will not be so easily misled by the relation in which the credit is due.



Edited by Booby (06/25/09 10:06 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: rebus_minus]
    #10570043 - 06/25/09 12:56 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

rebus_minus said:
You misunderstand me. I am saying do not stop making skillful choices when you are happy, but keep going in the direction of happiness.

And I do not believe in a soul. Please don't project so much.




It's good to have a project.

Maybe happiness comes more from not doing then doing.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblerebus_minus
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: Icelander]
    #10570478 - 06/25/09 02:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe.

Whatever works for you.

The advice was for me alone.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: rebus_minus]
    #10570484 - 06/25/09 02:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

If it was for you alone, why did you say " do not stop making skillful choices when you are happy, but keep going in the direction of happiness." That implies you're telling someone.


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Invisiblerebus_minus
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: learningtofly]
    #10570497 - 06/25/09 02:20 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

See Swami's Ultimate Teaching.

What works for me doesn't work for many others. That's the only conclusion I can make. Others could do the same. Or not.


Edited by rebus_minus (06/25/09 02:22 PM)


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: rebus_minus]
    #10570505 - 06/25/09 02:21 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

It's straight from your proverbial mouth dude. If you meant that it was for yourself, you should have said so. I can't read minds.


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Invisiblerebus_minus
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: learningtofly]
    #10570520 - 06/25/09 02:23 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I SHOULD what?


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Registered: 05/21/07
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Re: "I am what I am and that's all that I am." [Re: rebus_minus]
    #10570528 - 06/25/09 02:26 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

That advice is for you. I never claimed it was for myself.


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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