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Offlinestatiktech
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Registered: 11/15/02
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LSD info?
    #1056537 - 11/15/02 07:31 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Im new to this board, i actually just signed up today as i was researching about shrooms and LSD. Well, i have a policy that i will not do anything until i know as much as possible about it first. Ive been researching LSD and have not found out a whole lot about it from the internet, more from people i know that have done it. I am actually pretty excited about doing it my first time, which could quite possibly be soon....however i also know that i should respect it and be careful as it is a strong thing. I was just wondering if anyone can give me some information on a few things:

1. Is it ok to eat during the day before i take it? any foods i should stay away from?
2. Is it ok to eat and drink anything during the trip? anything i should stay away from?
3. Should i stay away from alchohol before and during the trip?
4. Any suggestions on what to do, where to be, what to have with me?
5. Im thinking of beginning with a quarter hit and upping the dosage if i enjoy it, is this smart? would you recommend otherwise?

sorry about all the questions but i would greatly appreciate any relpies.

thanks,
Pz


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: LSD info? [Re: statiktech]
    #1056544 - 11/15/02 07:33 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

www.erowid.org
www.lycaeum.org

this thread should really go in the OTHER DRUGS section ;-)

Welcome to the Shroomery, by the way - its dedicated to mushrooms - check out those above websites though; they have shitloads of information on lsd for you to check out :smile:

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
Its all just sitting there on a server.. waiting for you... calling to you!


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: LSD info? [Re: statiktech]
    #1056608 - 11/15/02 08:06 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

1. Is it ok to eat during the day before i take it? any foods i should stay away from?

No worries here, that I know of. I would eat lightly... donno why, but the drug causes a bit of a bloated gassy feeling for me at least.

2. Is it ok to eat and drink anything during the trip? anything i should stay away from?

Have lots of OJ handy, or any other juice if you like that instead. I never feel very hungry, but OJ seems to go down nicely and improves the trip... maybe just placebo, but does it really matter?

3. Should i stay away from alchohol before and during the trip?

I would avoid... why ruin a first with something that dulls the mind. Drunk people do not mix with trippy people... very bad vibes for some reason almost always turn a trip bad...

4. Any suggestions on what to do, where to be, what to have with me?

Be some place that you like, that is safe and secure, that you can explore without any worries, that will be good for at least 12-14 hours, that you can get away from/to if you need to be alone for a while, that has soft lighting, that is away from people that aren't tripping, etc... Setting is one of the more important aspects of a good trip.

5. Im thinking of beginning with a quarter hit and upping the dosage if i enjoy it, is this smart? would you recommend otherwise?

Redosing has never worked for me... take the full tab up front. If you like it, next time do a bit more. I think underdosing is a much more likely problem. Under dosing sucks because you get all the negative body stuff (bloating gassy feeling, clenched teeth, not hungry, etc) but none of the good mental stuff. Decide to take the drug or to not take the drug... and then follow what you decide. If you are worried enough to only take a 1/4 or 1/2 tab, then you are like a grape in the middle of the road just begging to be squished.



--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: LSD info? [Re: statiktech]
    #1056770 - 11/15/02 09:59 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Hey statiktech,

as for your questions:

1. You can eat the day before you take it, hell i'd probably eat a big breakfast the morning of, because the trip is very long and you'll need the energy... just don't eat for a few hours before you dose and you'll be set :cool:

2.  You can eat and drink anything as far as i know.  fruit is nice to have.

3.  I would stay away from alcohol, but that's my personal opinion.  Some say drinking dulls the psychedellic effects.

4.  Do whatever you want, you'll have many hours.  lsd is a bit speedy to me, so i had a lot of energy and would go on adventures.  Be in a comfortable environment.  Have a drink, maybe some fruit, leave your wallet behind, bring keys, portable cd-player if you're solo tripping, etc...

5.  Most hits these days are not the "standard" 100ug... however there is no way to really know.  my first trip was 2.5 hits of blotter, and was a very good time.

Feel free to check out the thread I made on LSD for my first trip ~ it's got some good tips and a trip report to boot
LSD: Things to Consider
.. have a great trip and welcome to the shroomery!

and strumpling, this may have started out as a general question, but suess saved it with his 'trip tips' so i'mma let it go :grin:
     


--------------------

--------------------
··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙··
...π╥ ╥π...


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: LSD info? [Re: statiktech]
    #1056837 - 11/15/02 10:37 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

1. mabye a light breakfast
2. eat after you come down although the taste of a fresh orange on acid can be quite an experiance.
3avoid alcohol if you want the most out of the experiance
4.for your first time be someplace you feel comfortable. listen to some good music or any thing to put you into a positive mood
5.
a quarters probably a waste take 1 tab and remember lsd is not toxic it has no LD-50(leathal dose) so no matter how intense it is you will be fine
may the force be with you


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


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OfflineHamurabi
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Re: LSD info? [Re: chinacat72]
    #1058554 - 11/16/02 07:05 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

just a correction:
you can drink as much alcohol as you want while tripping on LSD:-D
it won't give you any alcohol effects;-) this is 1000% sure.
even if you drink a bottle of Vodka while trippin' on lsd you won't be drunk;-)


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: LSD info? [Re: statiktech]
    #1058621 - 11/16/02 07:51 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

alcohol changes the trip for me, it dulls and relaxes it. sometimes this is what i want .
if i want a full blown egoless trip i stay away from alcohol
it is near impossible to get drunk on acid
i guess it depends on the experiance your after, if you decide to drink or not
this is just my opinion from my experiances


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: LSD info? [Re: chinacat72]
    #1059668 - 11/17/02 06:54 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

lsd is not toxic it has no LD-50(leathal dose)

This is simply not true. Everything has an LD-50, even water. The safety margin of LSD, the amount of the drug used vs. its LD-50, is huge (around 9000). It would be very difficult to overdose on LSD; you would have to take something like 9000 hits which isn't likely to happen. The typical hit of LSD is around 100 micrograms (1 microgram is 1 gram divided 1 million times), or 0.0001g. There have been a few documented cases where people snorted powdered LSD thinking it was cocaine. It is estimated that they took around 1g up the nose. Although they were in a coma for a few days, they lived in both cases with no long term negative effects. So in essense chinacat72 is correct, you don't need to worry about the toxicity of LSD.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinecroftsk
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Re: LSD info? [Re: Seuss]
    #1059775 - 11/17/02 10:49 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

there was a recorded case of two people ingesting VAST amounts of lsd in the seventies and OD'ing, its on erowid somewhere


--------------------
Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes.
You are free. - Jim Morrison


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: LSD info? [Re: statiktech]
    #1059936 - 11/17/02 01:28 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

your info is incorrect
LSD IS NOT TOXIC
people have injested up to a graham and been fine after 3 days
your body can only use so much and you just metabolise the rest
the only complications are psycological which could cause pysical problems
2 day coma? try 2 days out of the body mabye
you need to further research this through reputable resources.

hell Robert Hunter of the dead ate a quarter of a graham and was fine after a scary night.
show me some evidence of a death from physiological complications from an lsd overdose
i`m only shareing what my acedemic research has shown me. i`m not try`ing to argue with you. logical debate is how controverses are solved. i have been debateing this with my professers for some time


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


Edited by chinacat72 (11/17/02 09:23 PM)


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: LSD info? [Re: statiktech]
    #1060227 - 11/17/02 05:16 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

some more info on toxicity
from Clinical Management of Poisoning and Drug Overdose
"no well documented human deaths resulting directely from the toxic effects of LSD
itself have occured though lsd has been implicated in accidental deaths, suicides, and homicides"
Jonathon Ott had this to say
" imust emphisize that there is no danger of death or injury from an overdose of LSD, the ratio of fatal dose to effective dose is unknown since no human bieng has ever died from an overdose of LSD.this is a way of sayin the DRUG IS NOT AT ALL TOXIC'

THE LD-50 erowid gives is a guess based on the amount it took to kill a rat


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


Edited by chinacat72 (11/17/02 09:25 PM)


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: LSD info? [Re: chinacat72]
    #1066594 - 11/19/02 04:54 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Just because nobody has ever died from taking a substance do not mean that the substance is non-toxic.

For a long long time people thought that water was non-toxic. The body is around 80% water, how can it be toxic? It turns out that if you drink too much water, you will die.

If you can kill a rat by feeding it too much LSD, you can kill a person doing the same. The mg/kg may be different, but the end result (death) will be the same.

If you are going to quote something, put it into context:

LD50 SOURCES
Clinical Management of Poisoning and Drug Overdose
by Haddad Winchester
page 459:
"No well-documented human deaths resulting directly from the toxic effects of LSD itself have occurred, though LSD has been implicated in accidental deaths, suicides, and homicides. LD50 (That's lethal dose in 50% of those who injest this much) determinations vary widely with species, begin 46 mg/kg in mice, 16.5 mg/kg in rats, 0.3 mg/kg in rabbits and 0.1 mg/kg in elephants. In monkeys, the LD100 is 5 mg/kg. Death in these animals is the result of respiratory failure, preceded in the rabbit by marked hyperthermia. Human data are manifestly lacking,
and predictions of the average lethal dose for humans have ranged from 0.2 mg/kg to more than 1 mg/kg, administered orally.


Klock JC, Boerner U, Becker CE: Coma, hyperthermia, and bleeding associated with massive LSD overdose: A report of eight cases. Clin Toxicol 8:191, 1975:

A report of eight patients with severe LSD intoxication resulted from the substitution of LSD for cocaine, which the patients then snorted in doses greater than 2 "lines" each. The product was analyzed and found to be 80 to 90 percent pure, thus comprising a massive ingestion (milligram amounts). On presentation 10 minutes later, five patients were comatose, three with depressed respirations requiring endotracheal intubation. Sinus tachycardia (ranging from 110 to 200 beats/minute), mydriasis, vomiting, flushing and diaphoresis were uniformly present. Four patients developed fever (highest temperature, 41C or 107F), and transient hypertension was observed in three patients. Coagulopathies was demonstrated in all patients. Recovery was rapid and complete by 12 hours, but included a stage of hyperactivity and severe visual and auditory hallucinations.


So can we drop the LSD isn't toxic nonsence? Used in proper recreational dosages, it is an extremly safe drug (from a toxicity standpoint). To say that it is 100% nontoxic, that you could eat a bowl of cerial with a few hundred grams of LSD-25 added on top like sugar, and live to tell about it without medical help, is simply not true.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: LSD info? [Re: statiktech]
    #1066810 - 11/19/02 05:53 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

u can consider it toxic but i don`t
JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING CAN KILL A LABRATORY RAT DOESN`T MEAN IT CAN KILL A HUMAN we have a very different central nervous system
the leading pharmacoligist dr. david nichols of purdue(where i`m getting my degree from) says it`s not toxic and he has been doing research with psychedelics for 35 years(one of the few in the country to have a sceduale 1 licence). ask dr. shulgin what he thinks and the answer is the same.
my original statement is there is no LD-50 and ther isn`t one anywhere in scientific lituature based on humans
people have died from to much water consumption ,but no death yet can be attributed from lsd overdose
you have proven nothing!!!!!  hell even the people in your report revovered!! it sounds like psycological symptoms manifested physicaly as panic and the anxiety threw off there cardio/respretory rythym. i have seen people snort crystal without any of these complications, why because the were used to massive doses and had no anxiety about the state they were in.
read what mickey hart of the grateful dead says about his kids finding a vile of powder and thinking it was cocaine and after snorting a few lines realiseing it was white fluff crystal. they were fine after they came down. this is hardly scientific data, but there are people out there who have ingested way more than u would believe and there fine.i have stories about this but,as i`m basing my arguement on scientific data they are irrelavent :cool: :cool: :cool:


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


Edited by chinacat72 (11/20/02 03:28 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: LSD info? [Re: Seuss]
    #1066830 - 11/19/02 05:59 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Non toxic doesnt mean incapable of causing death. It means you have to ingest an utterly ridiculous amount of the substance for it to kill you.

LSD is classified as a non toxic chemical. 99.999% of the population could not hope to possess enough LSD to cause death.


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: LSD info? [Re: chinacat72]
    #1066846 - 11/19/02 06:04 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

immaculate you said lsd is considered a non toxic chemical
this is what i believe unless shown otherwise by VALID SCIENTIFIC DATA


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: LSD info? [Re: statiktech]
    #1066876 - 11/19/02 06:16 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

definition of a toxin from the random house dictionary
"a poisonous substance generated by  microorganisms,plants, or animals that causes disease or death"
lsd has not shown to not cause disease or death in any of my research or the countless research of more qualified people than myself
we can debate this for eternity or until someone eat`s 2 pound`s of crystal
and proves this
anyway my stance is firm that lsd is not toxic
professer nichols says even the merk manual(which is the doctors bible) LD-50 of lsd is based on guesses on the amount it took to kill a rat :cool:


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


Edited by chinacat72 (11/19/02 06:37 PM)


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OfflineTempanensis
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Re: LSD info? [Re: chinacat72]
    #1066938 - 11/19/02 06:41 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

LSD is non-toxic in the sense that the LD-50 dosage is of exponential proportions to the highest shamanistic psychonaut dosage.

Meaning that you'd never need to take more than 1000 mcg (unless you were fighting a built of tolerance), and the LD-50 dosage for an average person would be around hundreds or thousands of maximum doses.

Marijuana and shrooms are similar where you'd have to consume inordinate amounts to cause death.

Most other drugs (legal or otherwise) as not as forgiving.

If the maximum a heavy drinker would drink is 40oz of 40% pure alcohol, and you gave the average person 80oz (twice the amount), chances are they would die of alcohol poisoning.

Compared to any other drug, in preportion to normal doses, LSD is non-toxic.

Of course if you consumed what is physically a "small amount" ... i.e. snorted a few lines... you're asking for trouble.


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: LSD info? [Re: statiktech]
    #1069888 - 11/20/02 02:32 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

:cool:


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


Edited by chinacat72 (11/20/02 02:47 PM)


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: LSD info? [Re: chinacat72]
    #1069926 - 11/20/02 02:40 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

:cool: :smile:


--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


Edited by chinacat72 (11/20/02 02:48 PM)


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Invisiblechinacat72
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Re: LSD info? [Re: chinacat72]
    #1069942 - 11/20/02 02:42 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

this is what dr.Albert Hoffman of sandoz has to say about animal lsd research
" the minute doses that cause death in animal experiment`s may give the impression that LSD is a toxic substance. However, if one compares the lethal dose in animals with the effective dose in human biengs, which is 0.0003-0.001 mg/kg, this shows an extraordinarily low toxicity for LSD. only a 300-600 fold overdose of LSD, compared to the leathal dose in rabbits, or fully a 50,000-to100,000 fold overdose ,in comparisons to the toxicity in the mouse,would seem to have fatal results in human biengs.THESE COMPARISONS OF RELATIVE TOXICITY ARE, TO BE SURE, ONLY UNDERSTANDABLE AS ESTIMATES OF ORDER`S OF MAGNITUDE,FOR THE DETERMINATION OF THE THERAPEUTIC INDEX
(THAT IS , THE RATIO BETWEEN THE EFFECTIVE AND LETHAL DOSE) IS ONLY MEANINGFUL WITHIN A GIVEN SPECIES.SUCH A PROCEDURE IS NOT POSSIBLE IN THIS CASE BECOUSE THE LETHAL DOSE OF LSD FOR HUMANS IS NOT KNOWN.
TO MY KNOWLEGE, THERE HAVE NOT AS YET OCCURRED ANY CASUALTIES THAT ARE A DIRECT CONSEQUENCE OF LSD POISONING.numerous episodes of fatal consequences attributed to LSD ingestion have been recorded,but thes were accident`s, even suicides. THE DANGER OF LSD LIES NOT IN  TOXICITY, BUT RATHER IN THE UNPREDICTABILITY OF IT`S PSYCHIC EFFECT`S.
on a side note i have asked dr. David Nichols to give a brief statement on why lsd is considerd non-toxic from a pharmacological standpoint.
when he provides this to me i will post it in this thread.
after this my work here is done, as lsd does not have an Ld-50 based on human psysiology.and i can`t find one valid researcher in this country that considers LSD pysiologicaly toxic.
p.s. if you can`t understand what dr. hoffman is saying, it is you can`t determine an LD-50 for lsd in humans because it killed a animal.
when i asked dr. nichols for the written statement i asked him about animal Ld-50`s being used to determine human ld-50`s he said with lsd this is not possible or even logical because of the complex difference in our brain
to the guy who started this thread i`m sorry it turned into a debate about lsd toxicity
hope tou enjoy your trip, just don`t give any to your pet rat. HAHAHA :cool:



--------------------
Some rise
Some fall
Some climb
To get to Terrapin!!!


Edited by chinacat72 (11/20/02 02:50 PM)


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