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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea



Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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US POPPY POD LAWS?
#10563338 - 06/24/09 04:41 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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I've been informed that poppy pods are illegal in the US. Would I get in trouble for sending them from the UK to the US as decorations?
I don't want the US extraditing me on drug trafficking!
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Brennus
Student of Life



Registered: 05/31/08
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Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
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Re: US POPPY POD LAWS? [Re: Ego Death]
#10563533 - 06/24/09 06:48 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Folks sell them as decorative floral arrangements on eBay all the time and make a killing. From my understanding, it's a "gray market" deal.
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea



Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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Re: US POPPY POD LAWS? [Re: Brennus]
#10563656 - 06/24/09 07:58 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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The only thing is these are definately going to go through customs which is way more dodgy.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,392
Last seen: 2 days, 23 hours
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Re: US POPPY POD LAWS? [Re: Ego Death]
#10564808 - 06/24/09 01:14 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
I've been informed that poppy pods are illegal in the US.
Yes I guess anything that has morphine in it is just as illegal as heroin, gram per gram.
Quote:
Would I get in trouble for sending them from the UK to the US as decorations?
Probably not but maybe.
Quote:
I don't want the US extraditing me on drug trafficking!
Unlikely, but technically possible.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Nothing will happen to you, at the worst, they will be confiscated. Label them flower decorations and it will probably be waved through.
There is controversy over the legality of cultivating or possessing poppies in usa. Unless there is evidence of extraction or drug use, no one gets prosecuted let alone extradited from another country. Maybe if you were sending kilos of heroin over they might but poppies aren't even illegal.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: US POPPY POD LAWS? [Re: Stonehenge]
#10572463 - 06/25/09 05:41 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
There is controversy over the legality of cultivating or possessing poppies in usa.
Huh?
They are clearly schedule II controled substances. Both the morphine and the plant are schedule II and therefore subject you to that stuff.
You are not allowed to produce schedule II controlled substances without licensure.
In the past you've used your knowledge of the intent element in federal drug laws to make some pretty unsupported contentions, like that they aren't actually schedule II if you don't know they have morphine, or that you have to know they have morphine to be convicted.
The plant itself is a drug. If you know you possess the plant then you commited the crime regardless of whether you knew it had morphine, and intent has nothing to do with whether the plant is a drug- it is regardless.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


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Re: US POPPY POD LAWS? [Re: johnm214]
#10572504 - 06/25/09 05:50 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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I have read the CSA and I agree with John's interpretation of it. I read the parts that pertain to poppies a few months back and I can't see how Stonehenge gets "poppies aren't even illegal" out of it.
Stonehenge, could you please direct me to that section?
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Yeah, the plant is clearly schedule II regardless of intent. Stonehenge seems to have read the criminal possesion statute and just assumed that intent is an element of all offenses and even affects whether something is a drug or not (or he's continuing on with his claim that intent is an element of all criminal laws- despite the fact that he can't find authority for this and the existing law says exactly the opposite).
. Plainly, the scheduling law does not have intent as a requirement- the plant is a drug, and so any "knowingly" requirement would be satisfied per the law by just knowing its p. somniferum. I can find no requirement for knowledge of morphine content or even for morphine to be present- morphine is scheduled seperatly from poppy straw and opium poppy.
21 USC 812(c)Schedule II (a)
Quote:
Unless specifically excepted or unless listed in another schedule, any of the following substances whether produced directly or indirectly by extraction from substances of vegetable origin, or independently by means of chemical synthesis, or by a combination of extraction and chemical synthesis:
(3) Opium poppy and poppy straw.
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Stonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
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Loc: S.E.
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Alan, can you direct me to one case in which anyone was prosecuted for simple possession of poppies? I don't mean poppies plus pot or plus some other drug. And i don't mean when there was evidence of drug use or extraction. If they catch you lancing the pods and collecting the latex, that shows criminal intent.
There are lots of laws on the books that are not enforced and can no longer be successfully enforced. Many states have laws against cohabitation by persons not related or married. But, unless the people are underage, there is no prosecution anymore. The laws may still be there but they are dead letter. You may find an old law someplace saying you can have up to 5 slaves in that town. Does that mean you can have slaves? No. There are many laws like that.
Show me just one recent prosecution. A conviction at trial would be nice but just a prosecution is all i ask. There are millions of people growing poppies, the poppy is the cali state flower. You can buy poppy seed in garden shops and in grocery stores. Mccormack sells poppy seed which is viable and produces opium poppies.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: US POPPY POD LAWS? [Re: Stonehenge]
#10576909 - 06/26/09 01:46 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Just as an ironic footnote, i saw at the top of the page an ad saying shop for poppy pods. You can buy them on ebay and ebay is the most law enforcement friendly site there is.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: US POPPY POD LAWS? [Re: Stonehenge]
#10577344 - 06/26/09 03:23 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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I see that's a no, you can't back your claims up.
Whether a law is enforced is a different matter than whether it exists or whether the lack of enforcement provides some defense to others. Since you can't cite how the alleged lack of enforcement would provide a defense and you can't cite the law that supports you....
We'll chalk that up as another claim you can't back up.
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2859558484
Growery is Better



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Re: US POPPY POD LAWS? [Re: Ego Death]
#10577471 - 06/26/09 03:44 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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technically illegal almost never enforced though, unless found with other drugs/or on a commercial scale
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pazzy
Always Hardcore


Registered: 08/24/07
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Re: US POPPY POD LAWS? [Re: 2859558484]
#10582479 - 06/27/09 05:41 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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They are definitely a scheduled drug, however the law is not enforced.
I can imagine that ebay sellers would be prosecuted before the consumers.
-------------------- Are you happy for a miracle?
Absolutely no source checks/discussions.
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SRHooM
Stranger



Registered: 07/05/09
Posts: 718
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Re: US POPPY POD LAWS? [Re: pazzy]
#10631013 - 07/06/09 03:54 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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You can buy O poppy seeds in the US & as some said they sell poppy on ebay all day long. but if you get busted with a bunch on cuts on your poppy pods they will know whats up.
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Halsfield
Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 746
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
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Re: US POPPY POD LAWS? [Re: SRHooM]
#10739787 - 07/25/09 08:19 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Many legitimate stone and mortar businesses sell dried poppy pods, seeds, etc for floral arrangements in my town and I've heard of others on somniforums.
The reason I believe they have not been made illegal is because they are so ridiculously easy to grow and are in so many gardens of legitimate americans. If they really wanted to punish people for poppy growing they could have quite a few judges with gardens I bet, politicians,etc.
Poppy growing is also incredibly important to the pharmaceutical industry because they use the Thebaine to make oxycodone and hydrocodone so they might keep it a "grey" matter to keep that flowing.
I think the illegal issue comes when you start actually chopping them up , brewing, etc to consume the morphine/other chems. Poppy pods and seeds have been shipped via mail for many many years now without being seized and only major distributors that are selling specifically for consumption have been arrested.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: US POPPY POD LAWS? [Re: Halsfield]
#10760090 - 07/29/09 05:31 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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-------------------- It drinks the alcohol and abstains from the weed or else it gets the hose again. -Chemy The difference between the substances doesn't matter. This is a war on consciousness, on our right to the very essence of what we are. With no control over that, we have no need to speak of freedom or a free society. -fireseed "If we are going to have a war on marijuana, the least we can do is pull the sick and the dying off the battlefield." -Neal Levine (MPP) I find the whole "my drug should be legal but yours should be illegal" mindset disgusting and hypocritical. It's what George Bush and company do when they drink a cocktail and debate the best way to imprison marijuana users. -Diploid
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Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: US POPPY POD LAWS? [Re: fastfred]
#10760975 - 07/29/09 10:22 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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The poppies in the mail story involved other drugs too, plus the fact that the person arrested was arrested shortly before that on other drug charges. That shows intent. I'm still waiting for a case where they charge someone in the absence of other drugs or evidence of using the pods for narcotics.
The import case was just a seizure. No one got arrested and they seize legal stuff all the time as well as illegal. It still does not mean that someone innocently growing poppies is in any trouble or that buying them for flower arrangements would be a problem.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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supra
computerEnthusiast
Registered: 10/26/03
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Re: US POPPY POD LAWS? [Re: johnm214]
#10763416 - 07/29/09 05:41 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said: Yeah, the plant is clearly schedule II regardless of intent. Stonehenge seems to have read the criminal possesion statute and just assumed that intent is an element of all offenses and even affects whether something is a drug or not (or he's continuing on with his claim that intent is an element of all criminal laws- despite the fact that he can't find authority for this and the existing law says exactly the opposite).
so by this thinking i could have some marijuana, but as long as i don't plan on (intent) of every using it as a drug, since i only use it as potpourri, it is not illegal, i don't agree with this.
Fact is opium poppy is schedule II control substance.
peace
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pazzy
Always Hardcore


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Re: US POPPY POD LAWS? [Re: supra]
#10763474 - 07/29/09 05:50 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
supra said: Fact is opium poppy is schedule II control substance.
-------------------- Are you happy for a miracle?
Absolutely no source checks/discussions.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: The poppies in the mail story involved other drugs too, plus the fact that the person arrested was arrested shortly before that on other drug charges. That shows intent.
Actually it was her husband that was arrested on drug charges prior to the poppy bust. And they discovered the other drugs because they had a SEARCH WARRANT based entirely on the fact that she ordered poppies.
So this clearly shows that having poppies delivered to your home is enough for a search warrant, and an arrest when you accept the package.
In the above case the local post office decided to look up the senders address, discovered they sold poppies, got a search warrant for the package, got a search warrant for her home, then arrested her and confiscated other drugs from her home.
That's the sequence of events and it could happen to anyone. Suppose the post office dude knows you're a stoner. Maybe the hightimes subscription tipped him off. All of a sudden he's checking who you're getting packages from. Next thing you're busted.
-FF
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