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truskool
WTF?? FTW!!



Registered: 06/28/09
Posts: 11,194
Loc: Over the rainbow
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: libertaire]
#13198232 - 09/15/10 08:40 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
libertaire said:
You're right though, the way you described it would be the best way to achieve a desired trait, but you would also have to add the step of taking the clone of an isolated fruit and a clone of another isolated fruit, both the desired traits you'd like to combine, put them on agar, and let them meet to form their own sector or sectors. Then isolate those sectors, grow each one out, and you should have the desired cross breeding.
There is alot more to it than this. The two sectors will repel each other and then your back to the drawing board.
-------------------- Ask AMU for the best mycology advice out there
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.

Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: andymc]
#13198286 - 09/15/10 08:55 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
andymc said:
Quote:
LiquidMyce said: Strains of Pleurotus specie(Oyster Mushrooms) are as follows; Pink, blue, elm, yellow, ect.
Pink Oyster: species: Pleurotus djamor Blue Oyster: species: Pleurotus ostreatus Elm Oyster: species: Hypsizygus ulmarius Yellow Oyster: species: Pleurotus citrinopileatus
Not strains but species (plural).
Agreed, but you left out the rest of my statement.
Quote:
A multispore culture of cubensis or oysters can/will have many strains.
This though, don't you mean a MS culture can/will have many variances in genetics, not strains?
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andymc
cocoa beetles from zanzibar



Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 2,395
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: hamloaf]
#13198313 - 09/15/10 09:04 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
LiquidMyce said: Agreed, but you left out the rest of my statement.
Sorry, didn't mean to quote you out of context.
Quote:
LiquidMyce said:
Quote:
A multispore culture of cubensis or oysters can/will have many strains.
This though, don't you mean a MS culture can/will have many variances in genetics, not strains?
No, I meant that (in the simple explanation) spores would germinate and grow monokaryotic strands of mycelium, those would meet others and mate to form strains of dikaryotic mycelium (typically, many many of them in a multispore culture). I was using it in the proper sense, but that probably just confuses things in the "strains" thread.
-------------------- How I make spore prints Trade List My flow hood If he asks me "Did you have a good time?" I'll say, "Get the lights, Mr. Grim Reaper" -odds
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truskool
WTF?? FTW!!



Registered: 06/28/09
Posts: 11,194
Loc: Over the rainbow
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: andymc]
#13198316 - 09/15/10 09:05 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
andymc said:
No, I meant that (in the simple explanation) spores would germinate and grow monokaryotic strands of mycelium, those would meet others and mate to form strains of dikaryotic mycelium (typically, many many of them in a multispore culture). I was using it in the proper sense, but that probably just confuses things in the "strains" thread. 
So tru
-------------------- Ask AMU for the best mycology advice out there
Roll it While I troll it. I don't mean to boast, but dam if I don't brag.
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.

Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: truskool]
#13198333 - 09/15/10 09:10 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
I was using it in the proper sense, but that probably just confuses things in the "strains" thread.
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libertaire
liberator



Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 4,204
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: truskool]
#13198363 - 09/15/10 09:18 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
truskool said:
Quote:
libertaire said:
You're right though, the way you described it would be the best way to achieve a desired trait, but you would also have to add the step of taking the clone of an isolated fruit and a clone of another isolated fruit, both the desired traits you'd like to combine, put them on agar, and let them meet to form their own sector or sectors. Then isolate those sectors, grow each one out, and you should have the desired cross breeding.
There is alot more to it than this. The two sectors will repel each other and then your back to the drawing board.
Why would they repel each other? Is it because they are dikaryotic? I'll admit, I do have limited knowledge/experience in cross breeding, but this is just the way I had understood it, based on workman's strain crossing method. I guess I forgot to take into account that dikaryotic mycelium does not mate with other dikaryotic mycelium. Guess the only way is to put it under a microscope? Is there another way to get them to mate?
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truskool
WTF?? FTW!!



Registered: 06/28/09
Posts: 11,194
Loc: Over the rainbow
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: libertaire]
#13198382 - 09/15/10 09:25 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Limited sucess has been acheived thru quatrenary ammonium 1/3 strength and rattlesnake venom to weaken the cell walls so that the dikaryotic strains will fuse instead of repeling
-------------------- Ask AMU for the best mycology advice out there
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andymc
cocoa beetles from zanzibar



Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 2,395
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: hamloaf]
#13198399 - 09/15/10 09:30 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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In case that last sequence of posts confused any noobs, I'm going to try to summarize with a metaphor:
Humans are a species of primate. Macaques, howlers, marmosets, and mandrills are other unique species of primate that we like to call "monkeys". We tend to imagine that we can tell different races of humans apart based on superficial attributes such as colour, size, shape of eyes, etc, so we give the races different names.
Substitution guide: Human = cubensis Primate = mushroom Macaque, howler, marmoset, mandrill = blue, yellow, pink, and elm Monkey = oyster Race = "strain" (as in this thread) Shape of eyes = shape of cap
For your convenience, here's are the substitutions completed:
Cubensis are a species of mushroom. Blue, yellow, pink, and elm are other unique species of mushroom that we like to call "oysters". We tend to imagine that we can tell different "strains" of cubensis apart based on superficial attributes such as colour, size, shape of cap, etc, so we give the "strains" different names.
-------------------- How I make spore prints Trade List My flow hood If he asks me "Did you have a good time?" I'll say, "Get the lights, Mr. Grim Reaper" -odds
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truskool
WTF?? FTW!!



Registered: 06/28/09
Posts: 11,194
Loc: Over the rainbow
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: andymc]
#13198407 - 09/15/10 09:31 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
andymc said: In case that last sequence of posts confused any noobs, I'm going to try to summarize with a metaphor:
Humans are a species of primate. Macaques, howlers, marmosets, and mandrills are other unique species of primate that we like to call "monkeys". We tend to imagine that we can tell different races of humans apart based on superficial attributes such as colour, size, shape of eyes, etc, so we give the races different names.
Substitution guide: Human = cubensis Primate = mushroom Macaque, howler, marmoset, mandrill = blue, yellow, pink, and elm Monkey = oyster Race = "strain" (as in this thread) Shape of eyes = shape of cap
For your convenience, here's are the substitutions completed:
Cubensis are a species of mushroom. Blue, yellow, pink, and elm are other unique species of mushroom that we like to call "oysters". We tend to imagine that we can tell different "strains" of cubensis apart based on superficial attributes such as colour, size, shape of cap, etc, so we give the "strains" different names.
 Well explained
-------------------- Ask AMU for the best mycology advice out there
Roll it While I troll it. I don't mean to boast, but dam if I don't brag.
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andymc
cocoa beetles from zanzibar



Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 2,395
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: truskool]
#13198456 - 09/15/10 09:43 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks Truskool. Everybody likes monkeys.
-------------------- How I make spore prints Trade List My flow hood If he asks me "Did you have a good time?" I'll say, "Get the lights, Mr. Grim Reaper" -odds
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truskool
WTF?? FTW!!



Registered: 06/28/09
Posts: 11,194
Loc: Over the rainbow
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: andymc]
#13198475 - 09/15/10 09:51 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes specially evil monkeys
-------------------- Ask AMU for the best mycology advice out there
Roll it While I troll it. I don't mean to boast, but dam if I don't brag.
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: libertaire]
#13198480 - 09/15/10 09:52 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
libertaire said:
Why would they repel each other? Is it because they are dikaryotic? I'll admit, I do have limited knowledge/experience in cross breeding, but this is just the way I had understood it, based on workman's strain crossing method. I guess I forgot to take into account that dikaryotic mycelium does not mate with other dikaryotic mycelium. Guess the only way is to put it under a microscope? Is there another way to get them to mate?
I've asked about this before and not gotten a good answer. What I dont quite get is when anastomosis occurs and where the genes originate that work their way into the spores.
I made up a substrate of 2 different spawns, PE and Costa Rica. The sub looked totally normal. No inhibition areas or weird patterns of growth. Costa has a much faster fruiting time and the sub fruited costa-looking fruits within a week of fruiting. A week later, the sub fruited PE looking fruits.
I asked about this and someone suggested that had I grown out some of the spores from those fruits, I could have possibly found a mixed phenotype. I never tried it or got confirmation on the theory.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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NizzyJones
Fight evil with funk



Registered: 08/22/06
Posts: 2,082
Loc: Somewhere North of Normal
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: anonjon]
#13198619 - 09/15/10 10:37 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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You had two separate phenotypes cohabiting on one substrate. I don't know why that would lead anyone to believe they had exchanged DNA. 
To put it in a monkey analogy: that's like saying two monkeys sleeping next to each other (but not having intercourse) is enough for one of the monkeys to get pregnant.
-------------------- Wildflower seed on the sand and stone, may the four winds blow you safely home Curriculum vapidum (dry herb vapes)
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andymc
cocoa beetles from zanzibar



Registered: 11/25/09
Posts: 2,395
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: NizzyJones]
#13198674 - 09/15/10 10:51 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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You draw them in with the monkeys, and then POW you hit them with the logic.
-------------------- How I make spore prints Trade List My flow hood If he asks me "Did you have a good time?" I'll say, "Get the lights, Mr. Grim Reaper" -odds
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truskool
WTF?? FTW!!



Registered: 06/28/09
Posts: 11,194
Loc: Over the rainbow
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: andymc]
#13198710 - 09/15/10 10:57 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
andymc said: You draw them in with the monkeys, and then POW you hit them with the logic.

-------------------- Ask AMU for the best mycology advice out there
Roll it While I troll it. I don't mean to boast, but dam if I don't brag.
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: NizzyJones]
#13198864 - 09/15/10 11:33 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
NizzyJones said: You had two separate phenotypes cohabiting on one substrate. I don't know why that would lead anyone to believe they had exchanged DNA. 
Well right, it doesn't seem like it could be true because something weird would have to happen where both strains were present in fruitbodies even tho they took one form or the other. Because I think anastasmosis occurs up in the gills at the basidia, but I guess it would be possible that nuclei from the other strain were somehow getting shunted up into the gills. Which sounds doubtful, but with as much as the mycelia likes to shuffle nuclei around, it's not impossible.
But lets say it's not possible. Then the 2 strains are cohabiting the same substrate as 2 distinct organisms. This seems more likely. But it's interesting that the diff strains don't inhibit each other or form any distinct zones like you expect them to on agar. You also don't see any more or less metabs on a multispore substrate than you do on an isolated strain. There doesn't appear to be much intra-species competition.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman



Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: anonjon]
#13198946 - 09/15/10 11:46 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Well right, it doesn't seem like it could be true because something weird would have to happen where both strains were present in fruitbodies even tho they took one form or the other
thats exactly what a grow from multispore does. 
thats what isolating to a monoculture is for, so you have what you want without as many possible variables.
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: 13shrooms]
#13198967 - 09/15/10 11:49 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
13shrooms said:
Quote:
Well right, it doesn't seem like it could be true because something weird would have to happen where both strains were present in fruitbodies even tho they took one form or the other
thats exactly what a grow from multispore does. 
it was just 2 isolates tho that looked very distinct from one another and came in waves of one phenotype or the other. u still think both strains were present in the fruitbody?
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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truskool
WTF?? FTW!!



Registered: 06/28/09
Posts: 11,194
Loc: Over the rainbow
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: anonjon]
#13199087 - 09/15/10 12:14 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Id put money on it that you got a flush of cr then a flush of pe. Hence the wait in between flushes and the fruits looking different.
-------------------- Ask AMU for the best mycology advice out there
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: truskool]
#13199090 - 09/15/10 12:15 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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^^^ that.
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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