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Offlinehamloaf
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: jokefox]
    #13037014 - 08/11/10 02:52 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

It's just a cube that's a cube that's a cube. 
Name is nothing more than a novelty.
HL


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How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.


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Invisiblejokefox
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: hamloaf]
    #13037033 - 08/11/10 02:55 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

:awewtf:
check yourself ham
your not in OTD
your in mush cult
you told me to "go back to mush cult"
so now
go back to OTD


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Offlinehamloaf
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: jokefox]
    #13037088 - 08/11/10 03:03 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe if you would do that one thing to somebody that you posted in OTD about,

and

be a bit nicer,

people would be more willing to help you out,
my friend. 

I believe it is you that should do the checking of ones self.

Back on topic:
a cube is a cube is a cube.
Name's for cubes are nothing more than a novelty.

Cube variances are dictated by,
what region of the world said cube strains originate from.
HL


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How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.


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Invisiblejokefox
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: hamloaf]
    #13037105 - 08/11/10 03:05 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

what happened to you ham.... you used to be cool


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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: jokefox]
    #13037117 - 08/11/10 03:07 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

:pm: the drama

keep this thread on topic please. :kenthumbup:


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InvisibleBrainFarmer
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: jokefox]
    #13039467 - 08/11/10 11:15 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I found this here: http://www.fsre.nl/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=154&Itemid=57

Quote:

The mystery Fatass comes from http://www.mushmush.nl/ and looks like PFClassic. Only bigger. Both mushrooms don't have a veal and both have fatasses.

This strain produces mushrooms with the fattest asses you have ever seen! The caps are hard to print as she looses her spores poorly.



The first flush consists of mushrooms with an unusually fat stem. In later flushes some very big mushrooms can be harvested


Best growth medium: Rye







I would have to disagree with "she looses her spores poorly".  The prints I've viewed have been fairly dark.

BF


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Edited by BrainFarmer (08/11/10 11:28 PM)


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Offlinejiggac
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: BrainFarmer]
    #13039901 - 08/12/10 01:31 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

YADA


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Offlinehamloaf
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: jokefox]
    #13040333 - 08/12/10 07:16 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

jokefox said:
what happened to you ham.... you used to be cool



:what:  No I didn't.  I am being srs and trying to help you.  The only real variances in cube strains (as mentioned in great detail in many of the posts above this one) is dictacted by the region of the world they are from.  Not by a name some asshole, who probably thinks their god, decides to slap on the cube at the time.  That's called "Bastardization".  You seem to have an unhealthy obsession with the names of cube strains so I was wanting to reiterate that point.  All I am suggesting is that you put your knee pads and helmet on before you hurt yourself.
HL


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How I Get Stuff done. - My Reference Guide. - My Grows.


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Invisibleheeroyuy00
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: Doc_T]
    #13040842 - 08/12/10 10:52 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

so where is there room for evolutio
Quote:

Doc_T said:
Quote:

once a spore print is taken the genetics are all reset with only a slight bit of a higher chance you might get similar charactoristics.




No, no- you inbreed at each step.
The idea that 'spores are random' is a misunderstanding of genetics.
You lose heterozygosity as you isolate, print, repeat.





this made sense to me

if spores were random there would be no room for improvement in nature. it would have just been killed off by the first case of trich or whatever and we wouldn't have p cube on earf

haha


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Offlinelibertaire
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: Doc_T]
    #13040864 - 08/12/10 10:57 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Like 13shrooms said, keep it in the pm's, no one wants to hear you two argue.

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Quote:

Experiments would have to be done with various substrates to determine which one creates mushrooms that look most like the description,




Uh, I don't think growing conditions are relevant. We are talking about genetics.
If it looks different when you grow it, it's not a true-breeding strain.

(Hollow stems can come with warm temps and rapid growth. But otherwise... ?)




Actually, environment does in fact have a large impact on phenotypic variation.  For example, take a look at this article, which goes into it in great detail.  It actually flies in the face of the saying "a cube is a cube", because it argues that the single factor that differentiates one population from the next is the environment that population is adapted to.

http://nov55.com/mr/exph.html

One pertinent quote to the point is this:

"The evolution of new genes is a slow process that occurs in response to variations in environmental conditions."

So yes, multispore is a crap shoot, but only to the extent that the particular population you're working with's genes allow, based on the particular environment that population has adapted to.  That's why the idea that "names are purely for novelty" is quite false.  Names are given to denote the geographical population that was collected, which is the single differentiating factor when it comes to phenotypic variation. 

I suppose the question can then arise, "but aren't there certain genes that may lay dormant in all cubes, regardless of the environment, and are subsequently expressed once the ideal and generally uniform conditions of indoor cultivation are provided?".  It's hard to say.  Logic would say that this is not possible, and that the genes that are consistently not expressed would eventually be eradicated.  Anyone have any thoughts on this?

If the question does prove to be true, this is exactly the point I'm trying to make.  If we start researching the exact conditions in which particular populations originated, in terms of substrate, temperature, and humidity, we can start to get these particular traits that these strains are known for to display themselves more consistently, and maybe we could aspire to eventually eradicate any genes that may have lied dormant that are not consistent with the strains original morphology.

However, if it's a false assumption to make, then it would be a lot of research and work for nothing.

Am I talking crazy talk, or is any of this making sense?


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: libertaire]
    #13041389 - 08/12/10 12:59 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Evolution to environmental conditions
isn't
environment produces genetic variation


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Invisibleheeroyuy00
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: Doc_T]
    #13041474 - 08/12/10 01:11 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Evolution to environmental conditions
isn't
environment produces genetic variation



...it would eventually? lol

what i was saying aren't the spores like the sperm of a human you could say
not exactly but its way of reproducing and becoming better?


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: heeroyuy00]
    #13041493 - 08/12/10 01:16 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, exactly.

But that does not mean that growing conditions will affect the way the fruits grow.
Whether there are warts or not, for example. Genetic, not environmental. Tall vs short, meaty vs slender.
Some environmental component, as with people, but primarily genetic- Shaq isn't that big because of vitamins, right?
At the same time, he had to have had good nutrition to reach his genetic potential.


Part of the problem here is that most of the people still involved in the discussion don't really know much about genetics.
So it's hard to make any progress when you have to keep going back to basics.

Lamarckianism has been discredited long ago. Move on.


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Invisibleheeroyuy00
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: Doc_T]
    #13041558 - 08/12/10 01:26 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

this is going in all different directions


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: heeroyuy00]
    #13042806 - 08/12/10 05:53 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Just how I like it. A good discussion goes everywhere.

I think some people underestimate the difficulty of proving the uniqueness of different "Strains' if you can't see the difference with your own eyes, the differences you notice may be coincidental or subjective. Even your friends who feel the same way may be wrong.

To this day, most Americans believe in angels. Not too long ago, people thought the Earth was flat because it looked flat. They thought we were in the center of the universe and everything revolved around us!

It is far too easy to jump to conclusions when studying something that makes you feel close to God.

To simply prove how cube "Strains" are different, would take a LOT of $$$, a controlled environment and a ton of work. To do our own shroomery experiments is fine but they are a far stretch from actual science.

I have gone to great lengths to emphasize these points inside my journal (and this thread)... which takes quite a bit of fun out of the whole "Strain" thing. We can't yet prove much, but the stories behind the "Strains" and the visually identifiable differences owned by a select few are fascinating enough for me... for now.


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InvisibleTacoHerder
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: Rose]
    #13042839 - 08/12/10 05:59 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

i would love to see that lab...


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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: Doc_T]
    #13043692 - 08/12/10 09:08 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Lamarckianism has been discredited long ago. Move on.




yeah but that doesnt make it set in stone either, those were the choices of the elite of that time that could have set the whole future down the wrong path. :strokebeard:







:stoner:


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Invisibleanonjon
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: libertaire]
    #13044166 - 08/12/10 10:51 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

libertaire said:
Actually, environment does in fact have a large impact on phenotypic variation.


So yes, multispore is a crap shoot, but only to the extent that the particular population you're working with's genes allow, based on the particular environment that population has adapted to.  That's why the idea that "names are purely for novelty" is quite false.  Names are given to denote the geographical population that was collected, which is the single differentiating factor when it comes to phenotypic variation. 

I suppose the question can then arise, "but aren't there certain genes that may lay dormant in all cubes, regardless of the environment, and are subsequently expressed once the ideal and generally uniform conditions of indoor cultivation are provided?".  It's hard to say.  Logic would say that this is not possible, and that the genes that are consistently not expressed would eventually be eradicated.  Anyone have any thoughts on this?

If the question does prove to be true, this is exactly the point I'm trying to make.  If we start researching the exact conditions in which particular populations originated, in terms of substrate, temperature, and humidity, we can start to get these particular traits that these strains are known for to display themselves more consistently, and maybe we could aspire to eventually eradicate any genes that may have lied dormant that are not consistent with the strains original morphology.




I agree entirely. This is a fun topic because there's a lot of room for speculation.

The questions I think we should be asking are along the lines of environmental adaption.

Like, how should the fungus respond to a given environmental factor. Or theorizing on the differences between say a nepalese cube and a Texas cube.

You just have to be careful when you speculate, cuz you have to remember that fruitbody morphology is largely dependent on the growth parameters. The same exact substrate can grow very different looking shrooms under diff parameters. It's hard to separate out observations of genetic variance from environment. It's like the guy that grows B+ in a crappy aquarium and then speculates that B+ is a strain of tall, skinny, hollow stemmed fruits with fuzzy stems.


--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.


:moon:  :moon:  :moon:  :moon:    :moon:


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Invisible13shroomsM
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: anonjon]
    #13044274 - 08/12/10 11:17 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

:imwithstupid:


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Invisibleheeroyuy00
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: Rose]
    #13045542 - 08/13/10 09:51 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Lamarkianism isn't really what i was talking about

and wheaties did make shaq big :P (joking)

Im trying to say, I don't really believe whether strain related or not that its a complete reset of genes when the spores drop.

Im not being a dick or trying to be stubborn.


Quote:

Cervantes said:
Just how I like it. A good discussion goes everywhere.




agreed :smile: me and my buddy get like that when he starts talking about the venusproject


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