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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.

Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Which one to start with? [Re: anonjon]
#12937469 - 07/22/10 07:40 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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My Ape LC's, to date.  HL
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TacoHerder
Bluedavenger



Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 10,107
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Re: Which one to start with? [Re: hamloaf]
#12937510 - 07/22/10 07:45 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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looking good.
-------------------- TO ALL CULTIVATORS, EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10899385 We need more member like mycochef, he is truly a kind giving person. Just ask Noobie, mycochef hooked him up big time! Fastest Cultivation WINNER!!!! NoOneKnowsHowToAct won it twice, must be doing something right
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.

Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Yes they are, aren't they? I was a little concerned at first. These suckers took 6 days to germinate. I didn't think they had or where gonna make it. On the 7 th day, germination. These things have really exploded in growth since they have gerninated. I hope this speedy colonization is a testament to how aggressive a colonizer and prolific a fruiter this family of APE mycelium is going to be. HL
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TacoHerder
Bluedavenger



Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 10,107
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Re: Hamloaf's APE LC's [Re: hamloaf]
#12937592 - 07/22/10 08:00 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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i think having a stir plate will help speed up the process. Maybe you should look into that
-------------------- TO ALL CULTIVATORS, EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10899385 We need more member like mycochef, he is truly a kind giving person. Just ask Noobie, mycochef hooked him up big time! Fastest Cultivation WINNER!!!! NoOneKnowsHowToAct won it twice, must be doing something right
     Shoot me a pm if you would like a powerful custom laser built. 4th pic is a 1.3W 445nm laser burning thru some plastic makeup containers. Yes I was wearing proper safety goggles, otherwise I would be blind right now.
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Javadog
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Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 7,385
Loc: USA
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Re: Which one to start with? [Re: hamloaf]
#12937662 - 07/22/10 08:13 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Nice!
Are those labels correct? 10 days?
Good work dude.
-------------------- Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes Myco-tek.org
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Javadog
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Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 7,385
Loc: USA
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Re: Which one to start with? [Re: Javadog]
#12937666 - 07/22/10 08:14 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Whoops. Slow post.
I see. Well, all is well that ends well.
-------------------- Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes Myco-tek.org
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.

Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Quote:
TacoHerder said: i think having a stir plate will help speed up the process. Maybe you should look into that
Thanks for the advice and I have looked into stir plates. You could build one for about 30-40 dollars and a trip to radio shack.
I am currently in the process of breaking my self from the habit of always making LC's and getting more into the habit of agar. I make LC's in my sleep and not even think about it. Agar is a better, more sure fire, cheaper, less space taking, inoculant than LC.
These days I would take the money for a LC stir plate and just get a bunch of petri dishes and whoop up some agar. Although I must admit, a stir plate would be ideal for the research of LC's. Do you have a stir plate? HL
Edited by LiquidMyce (07/23/10 04:47 PM)
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.

Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Hamloaf's APE LC's [Re: Javadog]
#12937683 - 07/22/10 08:17 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Javadog said: Nice!
Are those labels correct? 10 days?
Good work dude.
Quote:
Javadog said: Whoops. Slow post.
I see. Well, all is well that ends well.
Yes those are the correct dates. They took 6 days to germinate and have been flying ever since. HL
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Blue Helix
bold hand



Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 6 months, 17 days
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My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: Rose]
#12944765 - 07/24/10 10:03 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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First, I think I need to state the facts about me.
1) I don't isolate. Why? It's a pain. For the casual, non-production grower who grows only once every year or two, it would require to re-engage in that pain each time one wants to grow since strains do not store well for a period of years in liquid culture.
2) I haven't tried all that many strains. B+, Ecuadorian, KOH, PF, Mazatapec, Golden Teacher, Penis Envy (cut and uncut), Falbino (in my grow none were albino), and a few others over the years.
3) I only grow using my spawn bag to trays technique on horse manure and a wild bird seed mix mostly and in a highly controlled environment.
4) I have been growing mushrooms for a very long time. That is I was growing way before there was a Shroomery to talk about it online, but I started after PF popularized a simple beginners technique.
My Conclusions
Potency Of the cube strains I have grown, all of them were comparable in potency. Sometimes large collections of aborts seemed a bit more potent.
Morphology Of the strains I have grown, overall outside shape is more or less very similar when grown under identical conditions except Penis Envy. Penis Envy is a grotesque strain that just seems ill. The cap is crimped and the whole thing looks like it is in pain. For me it didn't produce a high yield either, although it wasn't low by any means. Of the other strains except PE, some strains do seem a little more meaty, but I am not sure if that's just a coincidence or not.
Later flush mushrooms seem to be bigger. Heavy flush mushrooms are smaller. Low-air-turnover grows have taller mushrooms with longer stems. Deeper/denser beds with higher water reserves to a point give more and bigger mushrooms. While it is true that some strains tend to have hollow stems, they don't always and I'm not convinced that whether a strain has a hollow stem or not actually maters in the final yield. All the strains bend toward the light at some point in their grow, but many start to mostly ignore the exact direction of the light later on in development and usually grow straight up (PE grows more twisted and less straight than most).
Time To Pin With a cased tray, all strains pin for the first flush on day 6 to day 12 almost without exception. If there are no pins by then, something has gone wrong and the mycelium is likely battling mold under the surface somewhere or the environmental parameters are way off. Bare cakes are different than cased trays and can take a much longer time to pin.
Yield This question has always been one of the most interesting to me. Why? Because I don't like to grow often and want the grow to give me a biggest bang (lots of shrooms) for my buck (my time really). Also I have an engineer's mind and like to optimize things. If growing cubensis is a game, then biological efficiency (BE) has to be the best metric to know how well you played.
All strains have the potential for a high yield (even Penis Envy) or BE of over 100%. Now keep in mind that few grow logs I see here even approach a yield that would indicate any strain's potential, so normally, the yield isn't strain-limited in a grow but rather technique-limited.
Since an isolate can probably almost remove the differences between strains in terms of yield, the REAL question is what do the multispore grows of a given strain usually yield? Furthermore, I think this is a valid question because in my experience multispore bulk healthy grows of a given strain don't have so variance in yield that one cannot find trends and the average yield between strains is not exactly the same. In other words, when it comes to yield of multispore grows between the strains, I don't agree that a cube is a cube is a cube like many others contend, but I should add that some folks with a lot more experience than I would not agree with me on this point - they may be right.
Of all the strains FAR AND A AWAY the clear winner for yield for me are Ecuadorians. They aren't bigger. They don't grow faster. But they pin extremely prolifically AND--this is just as important--those pins don't abort nearly as often as other strains. With this strain I routinely get a huge percentage of my yield in the first flush (between 60 to 90%). And heavy first flushes are good because if I have learned anything growing mushrooms it is that you are racing against time and mold weakens and eventually takes down most trays if you keep them around long enough (which is why commercial edible mushroom operations select isolates that run fast a furious, producing the vast majority of their mushrooms within the first one to three flushes, depending on the species). That first Ecuadorian flush is massive and pulls in the sides of the substrate a lot. I have actually felt heat generated from the heaviest flushes, as if the ground itself was on fire with biological activity. Here's some pictures to show you what I mean:
Here is high-yielding Ecuadorian multispore first flush (this first flush alone produced over 5 ounces dry):

For comparison, here's a KOH (typical cube) multispore flush:

Here's Penis Envy (not a real high producer but alright)

Between those pictures the Ecuadorian flush produced about three times the amount of mass per surface area than the KOH did and probably five times PE. I have repeated this sort of result time and time again, and Ecuadorians are always the yield king of the strains I have grown so far. For some reason Ecuadorians usually produce very heavy first flushes that pretty much wipe out the entire casing whereas other strains sort of patter out through multiple flushes, often leaving behind huge numbers of aborts but steadily getting larger and larger specimens with the later flushes.
Are there other strains that produce as much as Ecuadorian? If I were going to place a bet, I would say there almost definitely is. But the information out there about the strains doesn't seem to really cover this point well, and I just got tired of looking for that strain before I went to the real heavy hitters in terms of magic yield per grow - Pan Cyans. Pan Cyans produces even more trips than Ecuadorians per flush if grown the right way, and the dried mushrooms are typically 4X to 7X as strong!
So there you have it. That's my take so far on cubensis. I'd love to try some more strains in the future, but with the Pan Cyan grows, I seldom grow cubes anymore, although personally I think a cube is a more beautiful mushroom than the Pan Cyans (except Penis Envy which is just plain ugly in my view).
Edited by Blue Helix (07/24/10 10:44 AM)
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Base Icks



Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 6,191
Loc: Shroomshire
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: Blue Helix]
#12952036 - 07/25/10 06:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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what is considered a pan cyan? is it all pans?
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Blue Helix
bold hand



Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 1,565
Last seen: 6 months, 17 days
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: Base Icks]
#12953241 - 07/25/10 11:03 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Panaeolus cyanescens far outperform cubensis because although they yield less total mass (usually at least), their amazing 4X to 7X potency per dry weight makes up for the lower yield big time; that is, you get way more trips per grow. As far as strains, I like the Jamaicans the best for the trip qualities, but they weren't the highest yielding I have grown (average).
What am I talking about in the yield department? Let me try to put some numbers to explain: I grew the Goliath pan cyans. My yield numbers for that grow in the first two flushes if one factors in a 4X potency difference (conservative) were 360% more trips per tray surface than my last Falbino cubensis grow!!! Now this is all a little unfair since Falbino yield wasn't that great compared to say Ecuadorians, but even with the highest yield strain of cubensis I have ever grown, Ecuadorians, you still get more magic from the highest yielding pan cyan strain. That's why cubensis doesn't make sense to grow if you can get down pan cyans. They just don't produce much magic and the dry material is weak in comparison.
Also if you encapsulate your grow, like I do, you can't cap cubes without wasting tons of caps and time making them. One 0.6g pan cyan cap will give most folks a good trip. You'd need to take 4 to 6 cubensis caps for that same trip, and you'd need to do the boring work of making all those capsules. Plus it's kind of weird having to eat a half dozen caps for a trip. I'd much rather carry around and eat one.
Edited by Blue Helix (07/25/10 11:10 PM)
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Base Icks



Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 6,191
Loc: Shroomshire
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: Blue Helix]
#12954426 - 07/26/10 08:13 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks for that 
I've got some goliath going in some pf cakes that I'm going to crumble and case in trays with poo.
What I'm looking for some clarification on is, I see people asking for cyanesens and I'm not sure if all pans are cyanesens.
In my head I refer to then as pans, seems like most call them cyanesens.
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Javadog
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Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 7,385
Loc: USA
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: Base Icks]
#12954491 - 07/26/10 08:48 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Calling then Cyanescens might be vague, as there is also a Psilocybe Cyanescens. (this is one strain that I would LOVE to find!)
Paneolus (aka Copelandia) Cyanescens are usually referred to as "Pan Cyans".
Also, there are other Paneolus species.
Take care,
JD
-------------------- Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes Myco-tek.org
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badman


Registered: 06/14/06
Posts: 4,039
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: Base Icks] 1
#12954536 - 07/26/10 09:10 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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When people say 'pans' they are normally referring to Panaeolus cyanescens, cambodginiensis and maybe tropicalis. You will also see 'Pan Jam' or 'Pan Viet' written which are Panaeolus cyanescens from Jamaica, Vietnam respectively or any other country or state of USA like HI or TX.
If you see 'Pan cambo' then that is referring to cambodginiensis and NOT Cambodia even tho a Panaeolus cyanescens from Cambodia does exist, could lead to fuckery if one is not careful.
There are other active Panaeolus species like Panaeolus cinctulus but they arent normally called 'pans' because they suck balls.
'Cyans' potentially refers to two different mushroom species, the wood lover Psilocybe cyanescens (Ps. cyan) or poop lover Panaeolus cyanescens (Pan cyan), normally the wood lover. This may cause some confusion but the two are easily told apart by looks, parameters, substrate etc they are very different.
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.

Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: badman]
#12954572 - 07/26/10 09:20 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Nice post, badman.
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: Javadog]
#12955274 - 07/26/10 12:11 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Calling then Cyanescens might be vague, as there is also a Psilocybe Cyanescens. (this is one strain that I would LOVE to find!)
Yes, and it's awesome. I have an interesting domesticated Ps. cyanescens strain that I'm working to bring back to full fruiting potential, and I'll be offering it here when I get it (making progess).
The potency was much higher than cubensis, more enthenogenic as well, and it was a prolific fruiter:

Stay tuned....
Peace -PS
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Base Icks



Registered: 03/19/10
Posts: 6,191
Loc: Shroomshire
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: PrimalSoup]
#12955514 - 07/26/10 01:01 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks Baddy. Makes a lot more sense.
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Javadog
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Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 7,385
Loc: USA
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: PrimalSoup]
#12955894 - 07/26/10 02:11 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
Calling then Cyanescens might be vague, as there is also a Psilocybe Cyanescens. (this is one strain that I would LOVE to find!)
Yes, and it's awesome. I have an interesting domesticated Ps. cyanescens strain that I'm working to bring back to full fruiting potential, and I'll be offering it here when I get it (making progess).
The potency was much higher than cubensis, more enthenogenic as well, and it was a prolific fruiter:

Stay tuned....
Peace -PS
You know I will ! !
(it looks like Kitty knows something.... ;0)
JD
-------------------- Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes Myco-tek.org
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: Javadog]
#12955925 - 07/26/10 02:19 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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That was one high cat, let me tell you... The picture is from 8/8/88 BTW (long time grower here). 
Peace -PS
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Javadog
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Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 7,385
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Re: My take on cubensis strains, especially yield [Re: PrimalSoup]
#12955934 - 07/26/10 02:21 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: That was one high cat, let me tell you... The picture is from 8/8/88 BTW (long time grower here). 
Peace -PS
LMFAO. ...ah yes, the folly of youth....remember it well, I do.
Carry on Sir!
-------------------- Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes Myco-tek.org
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