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OfflineFahkface
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: ShroomHunting]
    #11872680 - 01/21/10 01:58 PM (14 years, 9 days ago)

:tongue2:


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Fahkface]
    #11880905 - 01/22/10 06:08 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

Hey guys, if you had to pick one strain to grow out of these 4, which would it be?
Amazon
Ban Hua Thanon
Ecuador
South American

I don't have the time to mess with all these, but just want one good one, for now. All spore syringes already acquired. Picks?


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: CaptainAhab]
    #11881029 - 01/22/10 06:26 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

They are all good.

I'd go with Amazon... I have fond memories of that trip.


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OfflineCyanesense
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Rose]
    #11881275 - 01/22/10 07:08 PM (14 years, 8 days ago)

They are all essentially the same,
no strain guarenteeing better results than the next.
If I were you I would grow the South American or BHT,
take some sterile prints and trade them with other members,
those arnt as common around here as Amazon or EQ :thumbup:
thats what I would do :mushroomgrow: goodluck


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OfflineTheAnimate
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Cyanesense]
    #11886579 - 01/23/10 06:11 PM (14 years, 7 days ago)

Hello everyone, I hope this is the proper place to ask for strain advice. I'm about to buy one of the grab bag specials from sporeworks(can't beat those, really), but I wanted some advice before going ahead and buying. I'm getting two psilocybe 'strains' and I'm pretty sure I want PE and Mexicana. For the PE... I like the way albino looks, but it's a hybrid, so my question is, does it retain PE's potency/thickness? What about PF Uncut, any difference? As for the Mexicana, I know nothing about it other than it produces sclerotia. Sporeworks has a Strain-A and a Jalisco. If anyone knows anything about the differences, I'd love to hear it. Thanks in advance.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: TheAnimate]
    #11886672 - 01/23/10 06:28 PM (14 years, 7 days ago)

Mexicana isn't a strain of cubensis, it's another species.
As for PE, skip it. Avoid novelty strains and get one named for a person or place.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Rose]
    #11886805 - 01/23/10 06:54 PM (14 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
They are all good.

I'd go with Amazon... I have fond memories of that trip.




I went with your advice, Cervantes. Thanks for helping out... the more I read about amazon, the more I like it. It seems like a real good pick. I think that the next runner up would be the ban hua thanon. I have this feeling that thai strains are some of the best... at least from what I've read.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: CaptainAhab]
    #11887636 - 01/23/10 08:59 PM (14 years, 7 days ago)

PE is da best. Texans are a second for me.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: mushroomhunter10]
    #11910246 - 01/27/10 07:41 AM (14 years, 4 days ago)

I had a question regarding nomenclature.  I'm not a mycologist or scientist even, but from what I've noticed, when a new "strain" of a certain species is found, it is labeled as something like "Amanita Muscaria var. Flavivolvata", just as an example.  Why don't we do this for cubensis instead of inaccurately calling them strains?  I know we're trying to change that by calling them races, but why don't we just stick with the system that is already in place and call them variations instead?  For example, var. Ecuador, var. PE, etc.  Is there some reason that we can't use this term?


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: libertaire]
    #11910293 - 01/27/10 08:12 AM (14 years, 4 days ago)

It's really not any more accurate.
They aren't strains, they aren't varieties of a species.
"Race" is closer, but even that isn't correct.

In terms of human biology, I think 'family' is about the closest term.
A group of individuals which share some degree of genetic similarity.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Doc_T]
    #11910346 - 01/27/10 08:34 AM (14 years, 4 days ago)

I disagree, I think it is more accurate than strain, simply because strain has no official usage in mycology, while var. does.  According to wikipedia: 

"In botanical nomenclature, variety is a taxonomic rank below that of species: As such, it gets a ternary name (a name in three parts).

A variety will have an appearance distinct from other varieties, but will hybridize freely with those other varieties (if brought into contact). Usually varieties will be geographically separate from each other."

The term family is already reserved for the larger group above genus, and race or strain don't have any legitimate usage in the mycology community, so I think since variety is the only term that has official usage, especially given it's definition, it's the most fitting.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: libertaire]
    #11910446 - 01/27/10 09:16 AM (14 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

A variety will have an appearance distinct from other varieties,




Which is generally not true of cubenis strains.

What about 'clan'? Does that work better?


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Doc_T]
    #11910525 - 01/27/10 09:35 AM (14 years, 3 days ago)

While in definition I do agree that clan is better, like I said, var. is the only currently accepted scientific word that would fit our purposes.  Just because we aren't skilled enough to be able to distinguish one variety from the next doesn't mean that each variety doesn't have it's own macroscopic particularities.  There are definitely some distinguishing features from each strain, like the bulgy bases that sometimes occur in EQ, the larger fruits that occur in SA, the short stocky fruits in KS and KSSS, obviously PE's uniqueness.  Other differences in certain varieties may be subtle, but they do exist.  Just because they don't occur every single time, it's still in their genetics, and each variety has a unique set of genetics from every other variety.

If these differences didn't occur, I don't think it would even be appropriate to call them strains or any other individual unique name, but they do, so if we're going to be giving them unique names based primarily on their geographical location and secondarily on their appearance, and we're trying to keep consistent with the rest of the mycology community, I think we should be using their terminology, especially if we want to appear knowledgeable.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: libertaire]
    #11910531 - 01/27/10 09:37 AM (14 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

and we're trying to keep consistent with the rest of the mycology community




We ARE the mycological community, as far as this term goes.
A commercial cultivator of edibles or medicinals buys a strain that is really a strain in the biological sense.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Doc_T]
    #11910543 - 01/27/10 09:40 AM (14 years, 3 days ago)

Yea, but that's only if the a strain is isolated can it truly be called a strain.  A sample collected in nature that is unique from another sample collected somewhere would be a variety.  So I guess PE is technically a strain, but everything else is a variety, or whatever term we decide fits?


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: libertaire]
    #11910556 - 01/27/10 09:44 AM (14 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

A sample collected in nature that is unique from another sample collected somewhere would be a variety.




Not in the usual biological sense. We don't talk about Homo sapiens sinensis, for example, to describe humans from China.

I think the word you are searching for may be 'cultivar', as far as PE is concerned.
The rest of the strains just aren't different enough from each other to matter.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Doc_T]
    #11910590 - 01/27/10 09:49 AM (14 years, 3 days ago)

All varieties of Psilocybe cubensis, that come from an isolated variation of the species probably could be considered a strain. But since the genetics within these isolates apparently also contain genetic information of their ancestors (at least the variety of different phenotypic features is huge within a single print from an isolated wild mushroom) this categorization isn't really appropriate.
The genetics are narrowed down to certain characteristics, increasing the tendencies for developing certain growing habits or shapes, but ain't a guarantee for them to develop.
It seems as if things are a little different with mushrooms than with other life forms:shrug:

When it comes to A.muscaria, it appears, that they were named in variants because of their constant phenotypic features. Within the seven variants are three subspecies (that show different taxonomic features).
When it comes to Cubes, the phenotypic features seem to be a lot less steady, which is probably the reason(or one of the reasons) why they ain't categorized in variants.

That is only speculative, though!


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: libertaire]
    #11910606 - 01/27/10 09:53 AM (14 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

libertaire said:
While in definition I do agree that clan is better, like I said, var. is the only currently accepted scientific word that would fit our purposes.  Just because we aren't skilled enough to be able to distinguish one variety from the next doesn't mean that each variety doesn't have it's own macroscopic particularities.  There are definitely some distinguishing features from each strain, like the bulgy bases that sometimes occur in EQ, the larger fruits that occur in SA, the short stocky fruits in KS and KSSS, obviously PE's uniqueness.  Other differences in certain varieties may be subtle, but they do exist.  Just because they don't occur every single time, it's still in their genetics, and each variety has a unique set of genetics from every other variety.

If these differences didn't occur, I don't think it would even be appropriate to call them strains or any other individual unique name, but they do, so if we're going to be giving them unique names based primarily on their geographical location and secondarily on their appearance, and we're trying to keep consistent with the rest of the mycology community, I think we should be using their terminology, especially if we want to appear knowledgeable.




Microscopy particularities (spore size etc)would mean a difference in their taxonomy. That again, would make these different types subspecies, which they are not.

"Strains" such as PE or KSSS are isolates and not naturally ever again occurring shapes that are limited to a certain area.

You can pretty much grow any shape of mushroom from any "strain".


Edited by Fahkface (01/27/10 10:01 AM)


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Doc_T]
    #11910712 - 01/27/10 10:12 AM (14 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
Quote:

A sample collected in nature that is unique from another sample collected somewhere would be a variety.




Not in the usual biological sense. We don't talk about Homo sapiens sinensis, for example, to describe humans from China.




We could if we wanted to though.  Here's webster's definition of variety:

"5. Biol.  A group of animals or plants related by descent, but distinguished from other similar groups only by characters considered too inconsistent or too trivial to entitle it to recognition as a species; often, any group of lower rank than a species."

That's sounds pretty damn fitting if you ask me.

I like the term cultivar for any strain that is isolated for certain traits.  That definitely works.

Quote:

Microscopy particularities (spore size etc)would mean a difference in their taxonomy. That again, would make these different types subspecies, which they are not.

"Strains" such as PE or KSSS are isolates and not naturally ever again occurring shapes that are limited to a certain area.

You can pretty much grow any shape of mushroom from any "strain".




I said "macroscopic", not "microscopic".

It's true that isolates are not naturally occurring and are not limited to a certain geographical region, but let's say that it was possible to cultivate A. Muscaria var. formosa, and I cultivated it in a place far from it's naturally occurring environment.  Just because I cultivated it in a different locale, is it now a different variety?

And I do agree that you can get any shape from any "strain", but strain is not an accurate description, so I'm just trying to find with the next best thing that has legitimate acceptance in the scientific community.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: libertaire]
    #11910740 - 01/27/10 10:18 AM (14 years, 3 days ago)

Quote:

libertaire said:
I'm just trying to find with the next best thing that has legitimate acceptance in the scientific community.




I don't think that what we are using the term for has legitimate scientific merit.
So that's why I don't think you'll find a legitimate scientific word for it.

But keep trying if you like. :shrug:


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