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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: centurz]
    #14029674 - 02/26/11 10:20 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

No.  Chill.  It is starch and water, from the grains.

Yes, you do not want water pooling in the bottom.

I have found that WBS is a bit gooier than rye berries.  I think that you may be ok.

JD


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Javadog]
    #14029702 - 02/26/11 10:29 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

You are boiling/simmering your WBS for too long.  WBS isn't more gooey than rye per say.  It's just that the the straches'll be boiled out of the WBS grain mix quicker when being heated over rye due to the size of grain.  WBS is a more of sensitive beast when it comes to the preparation of it then rye which is why rye is prescribed to the beginner.  Rye is harder to fuck up and is also more nutritious.  What I like about birdseed though is the varying sources of nutrition being provided to your mushroom mycelium.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: hamloaf]
    #14030688 - 02/26/11 02:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

hamloaf said:
You are boiling/simmering your WBS for too long.  WBS isn't more gooey than rye per say.  It's just that the the straches'll be boiled out of the WBS grain mix quicker when being heated over rye due to the size of grain.  WBS is a more of sensitive beast when it comes to the preparation of it then rye which is why rye is prescribed to the beginner.  Rye is harder to fuck up and is also more nutritious.  What I like about birdseed though is the varying sources of nutrition being provided to your mushroom mycelium.




Not to mention the price and availability. If Ace Hardware is still running their annual sale, you can nab 60lbs for $10.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: afrosheen]
    #14037650 - 02/27/11 06:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

my wbs is gooey when i pick up bags that contain cracked corn


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: ar1es]
    #14037903 - 02/27/11 07:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I have the same problem. Tried more LC- less LC, Drier WBS and wetter WBS. Always get the stick, starchy and eventually stinky moisture at the bottom of the jars that usually ends up what looks like killing the myc at the bottom inch or two of each jar.
Usually happens after the "30% shake". Ive actually given up on WBS and have reverted back to BRF PFJars.(Other whole grains/berries are IMPOSSIBLE to find around here)

I hadn't thought to try various simmer times. I follow Docs WBS TEK to the letter, but I will give it another go knowing this. I hope I can get it down cause I am SO ready to move beyond PFTek already. I did have a couple successful WBS grows so I know what it can be like when it goes right. It was tough going back to PF, but better than throwing out gloppy, stinking globs of uncolonized, soured WBS! 

Sorry for the hi-jack. If all I need to get back on track is a shortening of my simmer times, you have no idea how happy I'll be!! THANK-YOU!!


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: hamloaf]
    #14040313 - 02/28/11 03:53 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Why do you guys boil your WBS?

That is why you guys are having issues.

WBS is too soft to be boiling. Its a really gentle grain but if prepared properly blow away any other including rye! Rye is just a lot easier so when prepping large amounts that why most people use it. You can't beat the nutrition and large amount of inoculation points you can get with WBS.

I did a ten years bid in the culinary arts industry :shootme:

Anyway, All you need to do with WBS and you will get perfect grain every time is this :

1. measure out your seed in a separate container.

2. fill a pot with adequate H2O so that it would cover the seed by at least a few inches and bring it to a rolling boil.

3. rinse the WBS with warm water to get any dirt or bullshit out of there, skim broken seeds of the surface.

4. Drain but make sure the seed is warm from  the water.

5. Turn of the boiling water for 5 minutes and pour it into a 5 gallon bucket with the seed and put the lid on but don't snap it shut.

6. Let it soak in the warm water over night. Make sure when you go to bed it is not in a hot room. If the room is in the mid to lower 70's it should be ok. The room must be cool so that it doesn't go rancid over night. If it is left in a room in the 80's it might have a funky smell in the am. 
You want to slowly reduce the temp in the bucket. That is why it is soaked in the hot water. While it soaks in the scalding water it takes on water to full capacity.

This is one way you could cook rice. You just use a different water ratio with WBS.

7. the next day let it drain and air dry the outside of the kernels. I often will use a box fan to aid this process. If you use a fan be very careful not to dry the seeds back out.

with this method there will be zero standing water and zero burst seeds.

If anything after PC'ing it should have a dry spot or two in the jars.

You never want standing water though. It is a breeding ground for bacteria. Especially coupled with all the starch that it will cause the seed to release.

-prof.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
    #14040583 - 02/28/11 07:26 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

...something I've been learning lately, is that everyone's different cultivating processes seem to only work for them and a select few other people. And NO ONE'S complete system will work for everyone else.

I grow with 100% red milo. Pretty damn similar to WBS, as about half the mix of most all WBS IS milo.

I wash the grains really well, steep in water just below boiling, very similar to what ProfessorPinHead was talking about, but I only steep it for about 30 minutes. Then, I crank the heat up on the burner for 5 minutes to get the grains as hot as possible, drain, lay out on a window screen atop some towels, and blow a box fan on the milo for an hour.

I just recently tried soaking the milo this last time. It ended up soaking for 48 hours, in my REALLY frigid apartment. (...usually 60 degrees F or so.) A good 30% of the grains were burst. :nonono:

I'm still totally using that shit. From what I see, the burst kernels are the most colonized, y'know? :shrug:

I may give this overnight soak one more go with just a 24-hour soak, and that's that.

With my typical method, most of the bursting of kernels happens during the PC process, and I have an AA925.

Oh, one other thing - I add 1/4 cup of gypsum to the steep-water, and then after I've dried off the grains and loaded them up into jars, I add one tbsp of vermiculite to each jar. I DON'T MIX IT IN THOUGH UNTIL AFTER THE PC PROCESS!!

This tbsp of vermiculite will be just enough to soak up the condensation that occurs after the PC cycle. It's probably not at all necessary, but it's also VERY useful for when using a liquid inoculant.

I should make up a grain tek. Dammit. :facepalm3:


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: centurz]
    #14040590 - 02/28/11 07:28 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

centurz said:
Anyone know what this is? These wbs jars been stallin and there fairly clumped up I think, I turned 1 upside down and it took a lil tap to get it falling out of its mold.. :/ ? Idk it thats normal or not.

A lot of the bottoms are showing this though, especially around the edge. 1 of them has a little mushy spot on the edge too from water im assuming






I suppose you could take that picture over to the contamination forum, 'cause that shit looks nasty.

It's not a good picture, but I don't think it's the pictures fault. Sorry, man. That jar's bad news. :frown: I'm pretty sure that's what is colloquially referred to as 'wet spot.'


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: faceyneck]
    #14040829 - 02/28/11 09:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yea, If you go past 36 hours with the soak they start to burst. Thats only because of the heat treatment at the beginning. the pot and flame are too abrassive with millo which is very soft and prone to explosion.

If you just pour the ~200 degree H2O over it and cap it and let it sit for 24 you will remove this "burst" seed phenomenon which seems to be occurring :thumbup:

But like you said it will still survive even with burst seeds if your culture is clean.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
    #14041504 - 02/28/11 12:06 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Funny thing is I never simmered/boiled my wbs, just a 25hr soak and then let it dry in a strainer for 45~min. And yea that jar deffinitley has a wet spot but I think those white lines are the starch mixed with water, rather than something growing, even though I could seethat starting a problem. All my other jars which don't appear to have wet spots still show no growth, so maybe I will try again with pf tek sometime and make use of the rest of my wbs later if I can first get some spores actually germinated.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: centurz]
    #14042785 - 02/28/11 02:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well spank my bottom and call me Hilda. Ill give the no boil tek a try. I never really "boiled"- just when it started to boil, I'd turn it down to a super low "bubble"- not even a "simmer" for about 20 min or until 5% or so are burst- I think thats what doc calls for... But, hell- I'll try anything to get back on track w/ WBS. It does AWESOME when done right. Its the doing right part I have trouble w/!
I sure hope it works. WBS beats the crap outta BRF when it works... This is  WBS:

This is BRF:

No. Just kidding. BRF can work well but when I got it right (ironically the first time I tried it) WBS works wonders. Seems to take a LC better, too.

Thanks again... hope I can get it right. Again, sorry for the off-topic hi-jack. I'll leave w/ a redeeming pic of a BRF grow LOL:


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
    #14043202 - 02/28/11 04:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Why do you guys boil your WBS?



I never soak any grain for longer than 8 hours and don't have any problems with the preparation of my WBS.  The sole purpose of the soak is to germinate endo-spores from the grain which is done with in the first 2-4 hours of the soak.  Endo-spores then multiply every 2 hours for as long as the soak ensues.  After 6-8 hours of soaking grains, you'll have more endo-spore germination in the soak water than when you began the soak.  The sole purpose of the boil/simmer step is to more properly and thoroughly hydrate your grains over soaking them alone. 

Personally, I boil WBS without any problems.  Though out the years (such as yourself) several different methods of preparing WBS and grain in general have been practiced/employed.  Boiling any grain is my preferred method of heating grain and is what I'v settled on for the purposes of proper grain hydration.  Boiling WBS isn't for everyone because if you chose to boil WBS you have to stay right on top of the alloted ten minute boil duration.  Boil WBS for one minute longer then ten minutes and you'll begin to burst grains. 

Quote:

WBS is too soft to be boiling. Its a really gentle grain but if prepared properly blow away any other including rye! Rye is just a lot easier so when prepping large amounts that why most people use it. You can't beat the nutrition and large amount of inoculation points you can get with WBS.




Quote:

hamloaf said:
You are boiling/simmering your WBS for too long.  WBS isn't more gooey than rye per say.  It's just that the the straches'll be boiled out of the WBS grain mix quicker when being heated over rye due to the size of grain.  WBS is a more of sensitive beast when it comes to the preparation of it then rye which is why rye is prescribed to the beginner.  Rye is harder to fuck up and is also more nutritious.  What I like about birdseed though is the varying sources of nutrition being provided to your mushroom mycelium.



:highfive:

Not to mention, once WBS becomes fully colonized, it provides more inoculation points for your bulk substrate over rye.


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Edited by liquidmyce (02/28/11 04:44 PM)


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Offlinefaceyneck
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
    #14046860 - 03/01/11 03:47 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ProfessorPinHead said:
Yea, If you go past 36 hours with the soak they start to burst. Thats only because of the heat treatment at the beginning. the pot and flame are too abrassive with millo which is very soft and prone to explosion.

If you just pour the ~200 degree H2O over it and cap it and let it sit for 24 you will remove this "burst" seed phenomenon which seems to be occurring :thumbup:

But like you said it will still survive even with burst seeds if your culture is clean.





They were soaked in cold tap water. No heat treatment. Burst grains up the ying yang. :shrug:

I think it's from going over 24 hours.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: hamloaf]
    #14046867 - 03/01/11 03:54 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The sole purpose of the soak is to germinate endo-spores from the grain which is done with in the first 2-4 hours of the soak.




That depends on who you are.

RR, in particular, soaks his grains to hydrate them, and not for the purpose of endospore germination.

Same with me. I soak for hydration, when I do.

I used to make up substrate bags, and I'd add straight dry WBS into the manure mixture and PC. I NEVER had a contamination problem until inoculation, if I inoculated with a bad culture. Sometimes the bags sat around for weeks without being inoculated without problem.

I haven't been soaking my grains for spawn in over year until recently. Once again, low contamination rate, and never unless inoculated with a bad culture.

Bacterial endospores will germinate after a period of being soaked. I do think I read it takes at least 12 hours though.

You may be soaking your grains for the purposes of endospore germination, but that's not why I do, and it's most definitely not the "sole purpose."


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: faceyneck]
    #14046955 - 03/01/11 04:52 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I use rye :smile:

I don't use millet anymore. Although its my favorite, its a bitch to work with in comparison.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
    #14046965 - 03/01/11 04:59 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Man, when I used to use WBS, the millet would NEVER fully colonize. :nonono:

The mycelium would colonize the germ inside, but not the hull. I'd look at it like this:

:archiebunker:

...and I don't like being inspired to look at things like that! :nono:

I would imagine straight millet would be even worse.

I find 100% Milo to be the best. :awesomenod:

$13.00 for a 50lb bag. I have no idea how they pull that off, even if it did come from slave labor. :shrug:


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: faceyneck]
    #14046987 - 03/01/11 05:14 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What? WBS is almost all white millet bro. You should search it. Its the little white seeds. I don't think you are thinking of the correct thing.

Millet is the best seed to grow off form my experience.

You actually want the hulls. If you use unhulled it will turn to glue


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
    #14047197 - 03/01/11 07:12 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ProfessorPinHead said:
What? WBS is almost all white millet bro. You should search it. Its the little white seeds. I don't think you are thinking of the correct thing.

Millet is the best seed to grow off form my experience.

You actually want the hulls. If you use unhulled it will turn to glue




I guess it depends on where you get WBS and what kind you get. The generic types available in the US are milo and cracked corn-heavy. There's some millet thrown in for color usually.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: afrosheen]
    #14047215 - 03/01/11 07:21 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quick question....

I thought penis envy did not produce spores....yet here i am 3 flushes in and this last PE is producing spores. What does it all mean? Have I found the key to the universe? HA!

na im joking, but i do have 1 out of every other one producing spores

I guess my logic has to be incorrect. If PE didnt produce spores there would be no PE in my bag o tricks.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: jboogz]
    #14047372 - 03/01/11 08:29 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Have you posted photos of these fruits?

Could they perhaps be PE6?

Gold!

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