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m00nshine
ÜBER SHAMAN




Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 9,774
Loc: BALLS DEEP
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: IhrHase]
#13889755 - 02/01/11 07:06 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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And like my Oakridge
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman



Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: m00nshine]
#13890148 - 02/01/11 08:06 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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and that anonjon is why I say A cube is a cube. 
there are a few exceptions but geographically speaking cubes found of the same region would look like other cubes found by someone else in that region and it gets named something different just because it was a wild find by a different person.
so I guess the phrase shouldn't be "a cube is a cube" but something along the lines of "some cubes are cubes and the rest look cool". 
Ive noticed cubes looks are separated by the colored caps from red/gold/brown/white/albino/yellow (maybe more that I missed).
but to note or keep track of each strain you grow out and keep track of its mature looks/color and log them all to see if you would be able to ID by looks, one cube from another cube, or if its regional/geographical/genetic thing or an environmental thing would be a massive project.... 
I nominate you, anonjon
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A M U Click here ^ for the AMU forum VVV AMUs Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Trade Thread VVV "Man is the sex organ of the machine world" ~ Marshall McLuhan
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: 13shrooms]
#13890615 - 02/01/11 09:20 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
13shrooms said:
I nominate you, anonjon 
If that's what I have to do to win this argument, then you win.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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m00nshine
ÜBER SHAMAN




Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 9,774
Loc: BALLS DEEP
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: anonjon]
#13890898 - 02/01/11 10:06 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: 13shrooms]
#13891394 - 02/01/11 11:45 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
anonjon said: In Cervantes strain journal it's listed as a trait of the strain. I'm on the fence tho. I've seen flecking on just about every strain at some point or another.
You'll notice, I credited the "Flaking cap" description to Ralphster, who does a less than stellar job of describing his "strains".
I included the info because there was little discussion about DT's when I compiled the strain descriptions. Ralph was about the only one who had anything to say.
Frankly, Ralph has great spores, but his marketing is misleading and problematic. Yes, you WILL get cubes from Ralph's spores, but will they look like he advertises or have the potency he claims? Often times they simply don't.
But, Ralph is a Shroomery vendor with good products. I can't get info from him about his cubes like I can from say, workman, for example... but if this is the Shroomery's list of spores and I am supposed to link to vendors who provide said spores, I may as well describe what the vendor advertises... even if that makes the description better than the product really is.
Should I start the strain thread by saying, "Most of Ralph's descriptions are not scientifically accurate."? I think that would disenfranchise one of our most valued sponsors.
Imagine compiling a list here at The Shroomery, without pandering a bit to our vendors.
95% of the descriptions would read: "Just another cube."
Of the hundreds of commercially available cube "Strains", Shroomerites spend 80-90% of their time talking about a select few. Several strains just aren't discussed at all.
I trust my descriptions offer enough for a n00b to pick their "Strain" while allowing the advanced mycologists to see through most of the bullshit and learn something about the factual history of many of our most interesting cubes.
I have not tried every single cube "Strain" and neither have you. Neither have we tried all their variants. The very nature of a thread such as this is subjective. I provide as many facts as I can, try to keep[ the mystery mysterious, and occasionally, pander to sponsors who I occasionally disagree with.
I can also, pander to Sporeworks.... who is the real deal (and full disclosure, once sent me a free syringe of Maxicana A in 2004... nothing else, ever... really... other than great stories, tips and history... hit up workman with a pm if you don't believe me.).
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
Edited by Rose (02/02/11 03:19 AM)
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Javadog
Continuing along



Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 7,385
Loc: USA
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: m00nshine]
#13891419 - 02/01/11 11:50 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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While I am not taking a position on the 13-anon issue, I have to add that while nothing certain can be taken from it (13's point) I was able to identify a strain that a grower challenged the group to ID. (anon's point)
Being able to do this successfully cannot be used to make claims, but it happens for a reason.
It is odd, as we gather larger and larger bags of things we think where we would prefer more concrete conclusions.
...but this part of the magic, I suppose.
Whoops....there I went....but I did not really take a side! Anyone not appreciating my opinion should mail me some pot. That'll shut me up!
;0)
JD
-------------------- Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes Myco-tek.org
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m00nshine
ÜBER SHAMAN




Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 9,774
Loc: BALLS DEEP
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Javadog]
#13891449 - 02/02/11 12:01 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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A cube is a cube, but they're all different. It's just a paradox we're going to have to live with.
I mean genetically, how similar is each variety? I'm sure the answer is that not enough research has been made. So it's silly to really argue over anything you don't have facts about. But all can agree that they all come from the same source, no? That mushroom growing in shit over there. Yeah the one that makes you crazy, ya dig?
b+, oakridge, AA+, thai, and plantasia mystery are all the same yet different. If you gave your friends shrooms and they didn't really know about them, they'd think you had different ones. All kinds. When the truth is they're all p. cubensis. After a while an intelligent friend could figure out they're the same, but slightly different.
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LurkingWizards
WurkingLizards



Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 219
Loc: hear and now, woof
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: m00nshine]
#13891840 - 02/02/11 02:00 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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I also agree that the average 'consumer' will not be able to tell the difference between cube 'strains'. 
For example, lots of people ask me for the ones that look a certain way because they liked the trip they received from the last ones that looked that way. Like, if they ate some mature open-cap mushrooms and just happened to have a good time, they placebo-affect themselves into thinking that what they ate is a different variety from the closed cap younger fruitbodies.
Then they will ask why I mix the 'strains' up when they receive both open and closed caps, wtf. I have to explain this to some people, which is kind of weird.
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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'Tis why I am a believer in grinding... tea, capsules and chocolates!!!
Invisible shrooms reduce placebo and give you what there is to offer... at least in theory!
Grind philosopher's stones into chocolate and people will think you added some nuts!
My friend, Don Quixote, swears by these methods.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
Edited by Rose (02/02/11 03:23 AM)
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LurkingWizards
WurkingLizards



Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 219
Loc: hear and now, woof
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Rose]
#13892075 - 02/02/11 04:22 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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I would love to make mixtures of different varieties of mushrooms, (cubensis + mexicana + Pan. cyan. + azurescens + etc.)
Plus, with the more potent ones in the mix,
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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The key to mixing is keeping it honest. 
Folks measure by cube weight.
If you grind, it is easy to make potent cubes.
But don't shoot too far.
p.s. nobody is reading this thread any more so why not tell the truth?
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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LurkingWizards
WurkingLizards



Registered: 01/19/11
Posts: 219
Loc: hear and now, woof
Last seen: 10 years, 10 months
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Rose]
#13892311 - 02/02/11 06:50 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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who said anything about not being honest?... 
I just want to try the mix to see if the combination of varying alkaloid concentrations would make a noticeable difference in the experience. Different species and genera in the mix? Not necessarily changing the size of the dosage, but mixing different proportions? 
Plus, I'm always honest about what people are getting into, probably more honest than most... why make stuff up, when what you have to offer is high quality?
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IhrHase
Stranger



Registered: 11/03/10
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: Rose]
#13892357 - 02/02/11 07:09 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Honestly I have to say from talking to my friends who have taken mushrooms there is not much look dependency in them. It has mostly to do with ritual and subjective expectations.
My Nephew and Fiancee both insist their resistance to compounds which intoxicate, and they both get nothing at doses less than 5 g dried.
A friend has a hunting ritual, when she does not do this she vomits aggressively when she takes this particular compound.
Then there is the case of myself and some other friends of mine, we take them with no expectation, no insistence on resistance and we never get sick, never have a problem getting loaded.
Sure, compounds are chemical in nature and certainly I am not suggesting some people are super-human, what I am suggesting however is that set, setting and attitude have an enormous effect on the outcome of ingestion of these particular compounds.
We must remember the magician does his magic before the trick, the magic is the words he uses to "sell" the trick. If anyone has seen the movie Go we see the magic when the girl sells the van full of people on Benadryl, she claims is X. When you pass out something the primary catalyst to the effect is the words you use to set the expectations.
What Anonjon says about PE may be true, but it is also equally possible to be caused by his pitch. In order to determine the reality of the claim work that requires expensive equipment and inordinate amounts of time must be dedicated to, until then it remains inconclusive. Until then... it is all theory.
-------------------- "The syntactical nature of reality, the real secret of magic, is that the world is made of words. And if you know the words that the world is made of, you can make of it whatever you wish." — Terence McKenna
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: IhrHase]
#13893141 - 02/02/11 11:00 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
When you pass out something the primary catalyst to the effect is the words you use to set the expectations.
Yes and no. You can fool all of the people some of the time, and you can fool some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Set and setting are famously important, and rightly so, but if you keep these fairly constant it's quite possible to ferret out differences. Consider that doubling the dose of an active is profoundly noticeable, all else being the same. From there simply extrapolate for yourself - a more finer tuned subject with excellent health, mind, and senses is quite capable of picking up much smaller nuances.
YMMV, and of course it does. The very nature of the beast. 
Quote:
We must remember the magician does his magic before the trick, the magic is the words he uses to "sell" the trick.
Non, mon ami. I knew one of the world's most respected magicians, and though of course they don't reveal the secrets, they will eventually tell you about the trick and the reveal if you are interested.
The reveal is uncovering the trick. The trick itself is always performed as far away from the reveal as possible - in time, space, and mind.
The reveal is not necessarily presented with words, certainly not for world class magicians. When the reveal occurs, if the subject never saw it coming their conception of reality itself is challenged. Words rarely do this, as they are always conditioned by our expectations.
A good trick requires no selling, in other words... 
Peace -PS -------------------- "The point of babbling, the real nature of nonsense, is that nothing is made of words. And if you know that nothing is made of words, you can stop believing all that crap."
Anon
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: IhrHase]
#13893224 - 02/02/11 11:23 AM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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IhrHase said: What Anonjon says about PE may be true, but it is also equally possible to be caused by his pitch. In order to determine the reality of the claim work that requires expensive equipment and inordinate amounts of time must be dedicated to, until then it remains inconclusive. Until then... it is all theory.
I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to here. But I think we've all reached the point of acceptance with regard to PE potency. You'll hear very few detractors on that point.
Some of you guys have a hard time distinguishing between an argument and friendly banter. The points that we argue are very nuanced.
Theres a tendency to take every remark as an argument or personal slight. Cervantes I know those descriptions aren't all from you. I appreciate that you've compiled em. No one can hold u responsible for their accuracy.
It was really more of a genuine question with regard to flecked caps. If my memory serves me correctly I think I've seen the flecks on just about every strain at some point or another and also have seen those same strains without the flecking. So if we agree that this is the case in the future we can just ignore this trait when we talk about the minor differences between strains. There are distinctive attributes to be found, this just isn't one of them.
If it's fun to imagine that me and 13 are locked in some kind of intellectual deathmatch, then so be it. But fyi I don't take myself nearly as seriously as some of you think i do. There's not as much confusion on this topic as we like to pretend. It's more about arguing semantics for shits and giggles.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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donner


Registered: 02/01/11
Posts: 3
Loc: right here
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: Strain Questions HERE ONLY! [Re: Rose]
#13893464 - 02/02/11 12:21 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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do you happen to know what 'sub-variety' commonly? called 'sqiudheads'. I believe they are from thailand (according to homestead) thank you for your time.
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IhrHase
Stranger



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 94
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: anonjon]
#13893859 - 02/02/11 01:45 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said:Yes and no. You can fool all of the people some of the time, and you can fool some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
You do not have to fool that much of a sample to fool all the people, when we are considering a person and his friends, this is not a national event, I am sure most people are not hanging with Anonjon.
So it is only a matter of some of the people all the time...
Quote:
PrimalSoup said: Non, mon ami. I knew one of the world's most respected magicians, and though of course they don't reveal the secrets, they will eventually tell you about the trick and the reveal if you are interested.
And this would be? Love the internet and all the pointless I know this guy and he is uber qualified...
Whatever dude...
Quote:
anonjon said:
Quote:
IhrHase said: What Anonjon says about PE may be true, but it is also equally possible to be caused by his pitch. In order to determine the reality of the claim work that requires expensive equipment and inordinate amounts of time must be dedicated to, until then it remains inconclusive. Until then... it is all theory.
I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to here.
I was commenting on Cervantes' and LurkingWizards' discussion, just using you as an example... nothing really meant by it.
-------------------- "The syntactical nature of reality, the real secret of magic, is that the world is made of words. And if you know the words that the world is made of, you can make of it whatever you wish." — Terence McKenna
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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: IhrHase]
#13893907 - 02/02/11 01:52 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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If we dismissed all the anecdotal evidence, we'd be left with nothing.
We should go with it and stop worrying about theoretical everything is.
-------------------- The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman



Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: anonjon]
#13893927 - 02/02/11 01:55 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
anonjon said: If it's fun to imagine that me and 13 are locked in some kind of intellectual death-match, then so be it. But fyi I don't take myself nearly as seriously as some of you think i do. There's not as much confusion on this topic as we like to pretend. It's more about arguing semantics for shits and giggles.
hell I only have a High School diploma and everything myco I learned right here on shroomery along my own experiences and others experiences. 
Im only in my 3rd year of mycology and I can do a lil of this and a lil of that, Im about to step it up once my flowhood is done getting built and I can start proving my theories/experiments with documented fact/pic/info. 
I want to play myco-god/mad scientist 
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A M U Click here ^ for the AMU forum VVV AMUs Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Trade Thread VVV "Man is the sex organ of the machine world" ~ Marshall McLuhan
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m00nshine
ÜBER SHAMAN




Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 9,774
Loc: BALLS DEEP
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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: 13shrooms]
#13893942 - 02/02/11 01:56 PM (12 years, 11 months ago) |
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