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OfflineProfessorPinHead
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Re: Strain Questions HERE ONLY! [Re: 13shrooms]
    #13630072 - 12/14/10 04:35 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't PE and EQ a variety difference.

A strain being what you isolate within the variety like the monculture in my sig.

Species being the difference between cubes and pans.

So an examople being ......


Ps. Cubensis (species) -> Penis Envy (variety) -> isolated for potency (strain).



I'm pretty sure thats the technically correct way of putting it. As far as my biology knowledge is concerned. I went to school for science but I could be wrong; it wouldn't be the first time! :smile:


Another example from earlier when "He isolated for white traits he lost potency" .....

This is because he isolated the wrong strain ? NO ? :shrug:

I mean I see where you guys are calling it sub-strain but I'm pretty sure that a sub-strain would be like if Mr. G's B+ really is crossed with an Azure.....

Fuck thats a sub-species.... Now I'm just confusing myself.....

Oh well!

No. Wait oak ridge is a sub-strain. Because of its difference in charachteristics i.e. super rhizos.

The rhizos are completely different than other cubes but its still a cube. Thus, sub-strain.


:shrug:


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Re: Strain Questions HERE ONLY! [Re: IhrHase]
    #13632589 - 12/14/10 04:15 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I have seen strains thats were mixed into an LC together cross with my own eyes.

Thus, a cube is a cube and they can mate.

If you were to take a print of this cross and try to grow it out it would not be a stable new variety.

This would take multiple generations of breeding to accomplish.

Kind of like if you wanted to make a new Race. A bi-racial mix 50% black & 50% white.

If all you do is mate 2 of them......

You would just have a biracial offspring not a new race. 

Now if you were to repeat this over a series of generations...... Then you would have a new Race that was 50/50. 

In people this would take century's because of our life span.

In mushrooms this can be done in a much much shorter time frame.

APE & PEUC for example.


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Re: Strain Questions HERE ONLY! [Re: andymc]
    #13632834 - 12/14/10 05:07 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

andymc said:

Quote:

ProfessorPinHead said:
I have seen strains thats were mixed into an LC together cross with my own eyes.




Well, you wouldn't be able to see it with your eyes unless your eyesight is much better than mine.  Merely blending 2 'strains' in an LC doesn't prove that they crossed, though I'm sure it's possible they did.  You need a very methodical approach to ensure that what you want to happen, happened.



Dude it proved they crossed when I grew the LC out.

When you do this you get one of 4 occurrences.

1. all strain a
2. all strain b
3. mixed a/b
4. any of the above 1.-3. along with weird crossed fruits.

Sometimes it happens some times it does not.



This is what I was referring to when I said "I've seen it with my own eyes"

Obviously you can't tell from looking at an LC if they crossed.

I'd like to think I'm a little more intelligent than to thing that at this point in life.....  :laugh2:


Anyway chew on this for a little bit.

Quote:

Workman said:
Yes it is possible and mushrooms do have sex.  Of course you have to stick to the same species so technically crossing one strain of cubensis with another strain of cubensis isn't a hybrid.  But it still can be used to generate novel strains. Spores, like eggs and sperm, have only half the chromosomes of somatic cells.  A singe spore germinates and grows a thin monokaryotic mycelium until it comes in contact with another strand of mycelium from a different spore.  At the point of contact the two myceliums fuse and genes recombine into a dikaryotic mycelium that grows thicker and faster and is "hopefully" capable of fruiting.

The difficult part in breeding is isolating individual spores and growing out the monokaryotic mycelium.  "The Mushroom Cultivator" (Stamets and Chilton) covers the spore diltution technique on pages 340-341.
There is another method of crossing strains that isn't as well understood or well known called anastomosis.  This is mentioned on page 8 of "The Mushroom Cultivator".  Anastomosis is where two dikaryotic myceliums fuse, exchange genetic material and form a new strain.  This can sometimes be seen in casings containing two different strains where a few mushrooms seem to be intermediate between the two parent strains.  Anastomosis can be done easily on agar where the two different fruiting strains are allowed to grow together in a single petri dish.  Typically, a zone of incompatibility forms where the two strains meet.  Even though it seems that the two strains are completely rejecting each other, genetic exchange is usually taking place.  If a small wedge is taken from the incompatibility zone and culture out to fruiting, new strains often result mixed in with the parent strains.  For some reason the crosses appear more abundantly in later flushes.  It is suggested that strains very different in appearance are chosen for crossing by this method so that they are easily recognized when they occur. 




...... Chances are if you mix an LC w/ a stir bar and keep breaking up 2 different strains together they will cross.

But like I said might, might not happen :shrug:

EDITED TO QUOTE WORKMAN


Edited by ProfessorPinHead (12/14/10 05:14 PM)


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Re: Strain Questions HERE ONLY! [Re: andymc] * 1
    #13632897 - 12/14/10 05:20 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

WOW BRO!

That is a completely ridiculous response......

If 4 occurred to two different strains or varieties or whatever you want to call them then they mated or crossed or whatever you want to call it.
And an offspring popped up that was 50/50......

If you really want me to say your right and I'm wrong then ok but you need to reread this thread it think. Begining with the OP.


I have a fucking research degree in Natural Science from a top university which is not something that is easy to obtain.

I think I have a rather good understanding of the definition of the word Prove, thank you.

I'm not trying to be a dick but this shit anit stratego,,, I'm just layin' down what I know as common knowledge.

:smile:


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Re: Strain Questions HERE ONLY! [Re: andymc] * 1
    #13632935 - 12/14/10 05:27 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

andymc said:
Quote:

ProfessorPinHead said:
WOW BRO!




OK, stop right there.  I'm not even reading the rest of your post, because I promised myself never to get into an argument with you, whatever the merits.

Your totally over-the-top posting style, since you showed up here a couple of months ago, makes you someone to avoid in my books.

Over and out PP.




Talk is cheap bro........


Whatever you say but I have a quite solid grasp on the subject of mycology and just don't like it when people argue about shit that has already been proven.

The genetics in the pic came from the person whom I quoted earlier.

I'm pretty sure I trust their advice considering that listening to it got me to where I am today.

I ain't trying to fight with you. I just know when I'm right.

Your the one who keep on trying to call me out ....

Now your all butthurt???? :shrug:


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Re: Strain Questions HERE ONLY! [Re: jokefox]
    #13633286 - 12/14/10 06:32 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I see things differently. I don't think its gonna hurt Jokefox to learn more about the topic and broaden his knowledge base. In fact I think it will help him, or anyone for that matter.
Generally a classical science training involves challenging oneself by problem solving... at least mine did anyway. :shrug:

By making the mistake and calling a strain a species Jokefox is actually learning the difference.

EDITED TO CALL ANDYMC AN ASSHOLE!

ANDYMC:

I love the use of a Liger as an example.

I can't believe an opportunity came up where you actually got to use that! :laugh2:


Never mind, You really are a confused human being.

And a pretty Nignorant asshole. :thumbdown: no wonder you are 4 shroomz.............. 


Edited by ProfessorPinHead (12/14/10 06:43 PM)


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Re: Strain Questions HERE ONLY! [Re: Rose]
    #13635700 - 12/15/10 06:55 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
Not yet. Gotta update the first posts before I am ready to start over. I would also like to see this become the most viewed thread in mush cult before it dies. Heh.



We can all click in and out of the thread over ands over again to accomplish that :smile:

Or PM everyone we know to check it out.......

I'll get on that later today

If we all PM 5 people and they PM 5 people eventually everyone will be on board.

Thats how rumors get spread.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: centurz]
    #14001518 - 02/21/11 01:40 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

centurz said:
Sooo by shaking the jars with MS have I separated the spores too much leaving them all useless?




No, but you made it hard to for them to find each other . :love:


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: centurz]
    #14001681 - 02/21/11 02:03 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Your gonna be just fine. Just don't give up. If they don't grow try again. Sounds cliche but practice makes perfect.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: faceyneck]
    #14002444 - 02/21/11 04:18 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Shirt, Shirt, Shirt, Shirt, Shirt, Shirt, Shirt, Shirt,
Shirt, Shirt, Shirt, Shirt, Shirt, Shirt, Shirt, Shirt, ..........


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: IhrHase]
    #14005533 - 02/22/11 02:23 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

IhrHase said:
I shake grain after inoculation, and so far with 10 bags and 5 jars I have not had a failure besides a failed spore syringe (Checked and rechecked through PF tek).




Well it may have come out ok, but that was luck. Shaking multispore is a bad idea. Take it for a grain of salt.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: afrosheen]
    #14008803 - 02/22/11 05:34 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

afrosheen said:

I consider it a novelty strain.



:mad2:  :enraged:  :grrr:  :crankey:  :psycrankey:
You know how I feel about PE Afrosheen ..............

I does take a while to learn to tame though.

I wouldn't recommend it for a noob. Malabars, EQ, Cambodians, etc.

Growing PE on the first round would just be confusing.

Most people would probably just think they fuct up.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: DJYoshaBYD]
    #14009077 - 02/22/11 06:23 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Ban Hua Thanon = Monsters!


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: hamloaf]
    #14040313 - 02/28/11 03:53 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Why do you guys boil your WBS?

That is why you guys are having issues.

WBS is too soft to be boiling. Its a really gentle grain but if prepared properly blow away any other including rye! Rye is just a lot easier so when prepping large amounts that why most people use it. You can't beat the nutrition and large amount of inoculation points you can get with WBS.

I did a ten years bid in the culinary arts industry :shootme:

Anyway, All you need to do with WBS and you will get perfect grain every time is this :

1. measure out your seed in a separate container.

2. fill a pot with adequate H2O so that it would cover the seed by at least a few inches and bring it to a rolling boil.

3. rinse the WBS with warm water to get any dirt or bullshit out of there, skim broken seeds of the surface.

4. Drain but make sure the seed is warm from  the water.

5. Turn of the boiling water for 5 minutes and pour it into a 5 gallon bucket with the seed and put the lid on but don't snap it shut.

6. Let it soak in the warm water over night. Make sure when you go to bed it is not in a hot room. If the room is in the mid to lower 70's it should be ok. The room must be cool so that it doesn't go rancid over night. If it is left in a room in the 80's it might have a funky smell in the am. 
You want to slowly reduce the temp in the bucket. That is why it is soaked in the hot water. While it soaks in the scalding water it takes on water to full capacity.

This is one way you could cook rice. You just use a different water ratio with WBS.

7. the next day let it drain and air dry the outside of the kernels. I often will use a box fan to aid this process. If you use a fan be very careful not to dry the seeds back out.

with this method there will be zero standing water and zero burst seeds.

If anything after PC'ing it should have a dry spot or two in the jars.

You never want standing water though. It is a breeding ground for bacteria. Especially coupled with all the starch that it will cause the seed to release.

-prof.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: faceyneck]
    #14040829 - 02/28/11 09:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yea, If you go past 36 hours with the soak they start to burst. Thats only because of the heat treatment at the beginning. the pot and flame are too abrassive with millo which is very soft and prone to explosion.

If you just pour the ~200 degree H2O over it and cap it and let it sit for 24 you will remove this "burst" seed phenomenon which seems to be occurring :thumbup:

But like you said it will still survive even with burst seeds if your culture is clean.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: faceyneck]
    #14046955 - 03/01/11 04:52 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I use rye :smile:

I don't use millet anymore. Although its my favorite, its a bitch to work with in comparison.


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: faceyneck]
    #14046987 - 03/01/11 05:14 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What? WBS is almost all white millet bro. You should search it. Its the little white seeds. I don't think you are thinking of the correct thing.

Millet is the best seed to grow off form my experience.

You actually want the hulls. If you use unhulled it will turn to glue


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: andymc]
    #14047586 - 03/01/11 09:34 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

PE stabilizes if you select the correct traits and clone, grow that clone out, Take a spore swab go to agar, grow that out, clone from that, grow that out, take a spore swab, .... repeat a couple more times.

If you do this you are drawing from the same gene pool over and over, kinda like inbreeding a little bit?

Anyway, my PE looks normal after doing this for about 2 years with it. Its pretty weird. When I got the original genetics they were stock from sporeworks and totally fucked up, full of mutants.  :shrug:

Now I hardly get any mutants at all with it..... Could be my imagination though,. It is likely that I just really know how to work with the strain now considering I don't bother growing any other cube strains with the acceptation of PF classic which is another weird case all in itself,.....


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: jboogz]
    #14047655 - 03/01/11 09:58 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Malabar has a warm place in my heart :smile:


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Re: Strain/Race/Variety Thread [Re: faceyneck]
    #14052891 - 03/02/11 05:09 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Thts just kuz they are a little dry. I used to get jars like that sometimes. They wouldn't ever give me any issues though.

Soooooo many inoculation points !

But WBS is different. The stuff I used to get was 90% millet.


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