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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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billed by court 7 years later. HELP.
    #10554009 - 06/22/09 02:37 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

alright here is my post about this in OTD, so bear in mind i was venting.

Quote:

leftysurprise said:
get this shit.


i open up a fucking collections notice today after work, stating that i owe $40 involving a criminal case.    :confused:

then i notice the date of this "fee" was 2002. so i call the collections office and try to figure out what the hell it is, they dont know shit, outside of the fact that they want my $40.

so i call the clerk of the court and get the run around for 20 minutes to find out that this is related to my juvenile possession charge.  theyre claiming that i owe motherfuckin  $40 for a public defendant request fee.

FIRST of all, this is 7 fucking years old and it just NOW went to collections? 

SECONDLY, i paid all fees, fines and related costs back when this shit happened, AND i never requested a fucking public defendant, i plead guilty myself and did my 8 months fucking probation and the entire case was wiped clean.

these cocksuckers are trying to extort me. they said if i can drive my happy ass down there(3 fucking hour ride) and show them a receipt theyll drop the fee.  7 fucking years later, they can eat my goddamn ass.  who the fuck keeps receipts that long???

whats the worst that could happen if i do not pay this?  my credit isnt immaculate anyway.  :shrug:





is there anything i can do about this?  i dont want to pay it, but i dont want my credit to get screwed up.  is there any other options besides paying it or not paying it and have it tarnish my credit score?


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OfflinePlastered marble
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Re: billed by court 7 years later. HELP. [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #10554590 - 06/22/09 04:10 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Any paperwork proving that you did/did not request a public defender?


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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: billed by court 7 years later. HELP. [Re: Plastered marble]
    #10554632 - 06/22/09 04:18 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

well as i said this happened 7 years ago.  i no longer have any of the paperwork involved with it, i actually threw it all out when i moved last year.  didnt think i would ever need it again.

but anyway, i think i have a pretty good handle on it now.  i was informed that i can request debt validation from the company, which causes many of these piece of shit collection agencies to tuck their tail and run.

BUT i just discovered that statute of limitations for open ended debt in florida is 5 years.    they arent getting shit.  and if they report this to the credit agencies then i can sue them for the removal AND $1000 per infraction.

theyre trying to illegally collect zombie debt.


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OfflineCyber
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Re: billed by court 7 years later. HELP. [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #10585650 - 06/28/09 10:19 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

First In 90% of the states they can not keep or add anything to your credit report that is more than 7 years old. There are a couple of states that allow it to go to 10 years if it is a court ruling.

Second, From what I gather of your post, it was a collection agency that called and not the court. I would tell them to piss off, Well I would say "Sir, I only deal with the person or company that I owe the debt to, I do not deal with third party collection agencies. Please remove this from your collection roles and do not contact me at this number or address again." Most honest collection agencies, are there any?, will tell you they need it in writing and give you the mailing address.

Third, There is a general 5 year statute of limitations on civil collection cases. This means that they can not take you to court and sue you for the 40$ :lol:

Forth, If it occurred when you were a minor and you are an adult now, How the FUCK did they get that? My understanding is that when you become an adult your minor records are sealed! You may have grounds to sue the state for that shit.

Oh, one more thing, IANAL (I Am Not A Lawyer) But I a am related to a bunch of them.

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: billed by court 7 years later. HELP. [Re: Cyber]
    #10586253 - 06/28/09 12:58 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

A bankruptcy will stay on your record for 10 years no matter what state you are in.


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OfflineCyber
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Re: billed by court 7 years later. HELP. [Re: Stonehenge]
    #10586390 - 06/28/09 01:26 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Stonehenge, Bankruptcies are handled different than a debt. We were not talking about bankruptcies we were talking about a debt owed.

Why is it that every time I bring up the limits on debt reporting some one has to point out that bankruptcies are 10 years. Bankruptcies are not a debt owed they are  a legally declared inability or impairment of ability of an individual or organization to pay its creditors. This gets 10 years because it is different than not paying your debts.

So think about this one, If you file bankruptcy they take some of your assets and wipe your debt, but it is on the credit report for 10 years. Note: it does not wipe your car loan or your home loan. Which is one reason loan companies like the idea of people taking out a second mortgage or a loan on the principal of there home to pay off credit card debt. It insulates them from bankruptcies.

Stop paying your debt and the best they can do is take you to court and sue you. (99.9% of the time they don't bother because of the write off they get when they don't collect it) At which point they get a judgment and hand it off to a collector. All of that is wiped in 7 years and you did not have to pay to file a bankruptcy. Top this off with the only stuff they can take is the collateralized loan items. Those are items that you got a loan for, examples are a Car Loan, House Loan, Boat Loan, etc. If you buy a car and use your credit card to may the full amount it is not a collateralized loan and if you default on the credit card payment they can not take the car. :wink:

The hole credit system is a scam, if you learn to work it right you don't have to pay it back and get away with all kinds of stuff. You also get the added advantage of not having to worry about identity theft because no one would steal the identity of some one with bad credit. If you need credit for a big ticket item, like a house, it takes about 6 months to clean your credit report and make you look good by the numbers, even with a bankruptcy.

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: billed by court 7 years later. HELP. [Re: Cyber]
    #10586985 - 06/28/09 03:28 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Cyber said:
First In 90% of the states they can not keep or add anything to your credit report that is more than 7 years old. There are a couple of states that allow it to go to 10 years if it is a court ruling.

Second, From what I gather of your post, it was a collection agency that called and not the court. I would tell them to piss off, Well I would say "Sir, I only deal with the person or company that I owe the debt to, I do not deal with third party collection agencies. Please remove this from your collection roles and do not contact me at this number or address again." Most honest collection agencies, are there any?, will tell you they need it in writing and give you the mailing address.

Third, There is a general 5 year statute of limitations on civil collection cases. This means that they can not take you to court and sue you for the 40$ :lol:

Forth, If it occurred when you were a minor and you are an adult now, How the FUCK did they get that? My understanding is that when you become an adult your minor records are sealed! You may have grounds to sue the state for that shit.

Oh, one more thing, IANAL (I Am Not A Lawyer) But I a am related to a bunch of them.





yeah im not worried at all now.  i was just freaking out before i found out there are like 3-4 things working against them and for me. 

1. statute of limitations in FL is 5 years.
2. i was a minor.
3. i never requested a public defender so there is no proof.
4.  the court didnt even have legit records of this, i asked them to fax me the documents showing that i requested a public defender and they "couldnt find them:, all they found was the fucking entry in the computer stating that i owe them this money.

i am now convinced that this is a bogus charge that they made up well after the fact.  it makes me wonder how many old cases they dig up, and how many of these fake charges they sell to collection companies in the hopes of making some extra cash.


i sent them a certified and signature reciept letter requesting validation of debt.  so im sure i wont ever hear from them again.  until this, i never realized just how easy it is to make collection agencies fuck off.


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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: billed by court 7 years later. HELP. [Re: Stonehenge]
    #10586996 - 06/28/09 03:30 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
A bankruptcy will stay on your record for 10 years no matter what state you are in.





i dont think anyone mentioned bankruptcy.....  :shrug:


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: billed by court 7 years later. HELP. [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #10588300 - 06/28/09 07:39 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Basically find out if it is owned by the state or a public institution or a private institution.


If it was private I'd try to dispute it.




But you likely have no defense regarding normal debt collection procedures as mentioned previously, because under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, the debts must be consumer debts.  A debt owed to a court is not a consumer debt.


Similarly, you likely still owe the money in your state, usually statute of limitations don't apply to all debts, and likely debts to the court or state are among these.

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: billed by court 7 years later. HELP. [Re: johnm214]
    #10588560 - 06/28/09 08:27 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

well i guess i will find out soon enough. 

what i find odd is that it took 7 years for them to decide that they wanted that $40.  not a single call or letter. nothing.


john, i was under the impression that once a debt is picked up by a collections agency that they now own that debt, i know they buy debt in bulk for pennies on the dollar all of the time, is this not always the case?


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: billed by court 7 years later. HELP. [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #10588674 - 06/28/09 08:47 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

leftysurprise said:
well i guess i will find out soon enough. 

what i find odd is that it took 7 years for them to decide that they wanted that $40.  not a single call or letter. nothing.


john, i was under the impression that once a debt is picked up by a collections agency that they now own that debt, i know they buy debt in bulk for pennies on the dollar all of the time, is this not always the case?





Usually the case, but not always.  They can either represent the debtholder (harras you for a fee) or buy the debt and then harrass you.



I would guess that this collector owns the debt by buying it, but could be mistaken.


The problem you'll have is that they may report to the credit bureaus and you may not have much of a recourse- the consumer credit protections are generally limited to personal or household debts, typically exclusive of debts owed to the government for court, taxes, et cet.


Send them a letter anyways and disclaim all knowledge.  What state are you in?  I'll see if I can find any law stating that a minor has no debts in your state.  That's the case in some of them- usually minors don't even properly own property or have standing to sue in court, so they typically don't have obligationst to pay debt.  Though the law often makes itself an exception for its own convenience.

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: billed by court 7 years later. HELP. [Re: johnm214]
    #10588763 - 06/28/09 09:06 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

FL.

i sent out my request for validation of debt on the 23rd. 

even though this debt is owed to the state(or was supposedly originally), they still have to provide proof of said debt when requested correct?  because i asked to see any form of physical proof that i owe this money and they couldnt produce anything(the clerk of the court not the collection agency, i KNOW they dont have shit.).

thanks john.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: billed by court 7 years later. HELP. [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #10588801 - 06/28/09 09:12 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Nope, the debt isn't a "debt" per the FDCPA.  Unless you have some other authority, they don't have to validate the debt per this law.


FDCPA sec 803(5)
Quote:

The term “debt” means any obligation or alleged
obligation of a consumer to pay money arising out of
a transaction in which the money, property, insurance
or services which are the subject of the transaction are
primarily for personal, family, or household purposes,
whether or not such obligation has been reduced to
judgmen





You did not incur this as part of a consumer transaction, so its not a "debt" per the FDCPA.




But dispute it anyways, as the collector may not know this or may have uniform procedures since they likely deal with "debt" in most cases.


I believe the FCRA credit reporting law is similar.  Unless your state has some provisions to help you they likely can do whatever they want unless you sue- which may be a good idea if you can't resolve it and they are reporting on your credit report.


Just know that usually paying a debt doesn't signifigantly alter the credit worthiness by most calculations.  I'd just make sure they are reporting the debt correctly, and that it is reported that the last data of activity was a long time ago, rather than when they bought it.  If they report incorrectly you should be able to sue over this, perhaps, but it will be more difficult.


Go through the motions with letters and then consider a small claims or other court case.

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: billed by court 7 years later. HELP. [Re: johnm214]
    #10588820 - 06/28/09 09:18 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

:thumbup:

thanks. ill keep you guys posted as to what happens.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: billed by court 7 years later. HELP. [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #10589499 - 06/28/09 10:52 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I can't find anything saying minors don't owe debts, but I still think that's likely.



A minor can't own real property in Florida, that's for sure, so why shoudl they owe debt?



Honestly I would think a complaint to the attorney general, after correspondence with the collector, may suffice, if you tell them you were a minor and totally dispute owing anything.



Then, send a letter entitled "Notice of Intent to Sue" or something, and lay out your case and threaten suit.  If that doesn't work, and they report on your credit report, you may be best off coughing up 60 bucks for a small claims case OR paying a bit more and getting into a real court.  They'll likely release you of all liability as soon as the notice from the court arrives, if they haven't earlier.  They won't fight with you over a debt they probably paid 0.50 for or something.



(all this is dependant upon the debt being owed to a private party and not the court or state.  If that's the case, you're much more fucked)

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: billed by court 7 years later. HELP. [Re: johnm214]
    #10590857 - 06/29/09 04:24 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

im going to try every avenue possible before they get that $40.  itll be 09' before they get it.    :lol:


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: billed by court 7 years later. HELP. [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #10591790 - 06/29/09 11:05 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Someone said things on your credit report are only there for 7 years so i mentioned bankruptcy. Not that the op is going to use that to get out from under $40. It's not likely the collection agency bought the debt. Most likely they get a percentage of whatever comes in. I would just simply not pay it and ignore it and see what they do.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: billed by court 7 years later. HELP. [Re: Stonehenge]
    #10592029 - 06/29/09 11:59 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Stonehenge, as usual, is making it up as he goes along.

  There is no 7 year limit, as discussed previously, under the FCRA and FDCPA, and bankruptcy will do nothing about that, except put the fact you've filed for bankruptcy on your report for ten years from the date of discharge.  Stonehenge, provide a source for the statute allowing discharge of this type of debt- I contend there is none.


If it were me, I'd letter them to death, then bitch to the Att Gen, then threaten suit, then sue if its worth it to you.


I wouldn't pay, regardless. If you pay, that will set the clock over for another 7 years if they are following the FCRA, which they may do as an automated matter.  In either case, it will likely not help your credit, based upon testimonials I've heard.  Better to let old debts lie.

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InvisibleLeftyBurnz
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Re: billed by court 7 years later. HELP. [Re: johnm214]
    #10593498 - 06/29/09 05:21 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

well im not sure that it would be worth it for me to go as far as suing, but i will drag this out as long as they will fight it lol.  i want to make this $40 as much of a pain in the ass to get as i can.  even after contacting the attorney general and the credit bureaus(if they report this on my credit), and the threat of lawsuit, if they STILL want the damn money then ill try to settle for less only if they remove their negative mark.  otherwise i will let it lie in debt purgatory for all of eternity.

MWUHAHAHAHA.

:smirk:


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: billed by court 7 years later. HELP. [Re: LeftyBurnz]
    #10594147 - 06/29/09 07:44 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, if you agree to pay for deletion, just make sure you've got it in writing or you've tape recorded a manager saying that is what will happen.  Don't give them shit for a "payment in full" notation or whatnot, the debt will still show as being however many years delinquent, discharged, and sent to collections- only now it would be listed as being paid.... six years too late (or whatever).


Only offer money for removal.  They probably operate on reporting software that reports for seven years per the FCRA (though since this debt isn't under that statue they don't have to).  If you pay now, that would reset the seven years all over again, and they'd update the last activity date on your debt from six or whatever years ago to the date you paid.  That doesn't help you.


From all I've seen, paying old debts that are in collections usually hurts you rather than helps you, as it makes them reported longer and makes them look more recent than they are.


Only offer to pay for a deletion.



(the lawsuit was just if you needed it off for a car loan or a job application... I did that once and actually made money on the deal, but my debt was under the FCRA/FDCPA.  You would have a harder time, but could certainly get them to remove it from your record for the price of a filing fee, almost certainly)

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