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LvMkngFlwrChld said: I wasnt creating a dichotomy, i was offering up empiricism as one alternative to faith, not the only one.
What alternatives do you use? The farther away you get from empiricism, the harder it will be for you to defend any kind of verifiable truth. Which I thought was your argument against faith?
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yes, it is different. The church claims to know what happens when you die, while I just pointed out that just because something has not been explained does not mean it cannot be explained. just because I havent gotten out of bed yet doesnt mean I can't. just becaue I haven't got a kid don't mean I'm shooting blanks.
And just because you haven't seen life after death, doesn't mean you won't. Yes, there are shades of grey in how much support each of these assumptions has, but in all, until it happens, you're relying on faith. Whenever I get into a car, I really don't believe I'm going to get into an accident. But accidents do happen, and one could happen to me, but I don't believe it will. I've gone my entire life without an accident, so I have plenty of support for believing such. Does the possibility of me getting into an accident ever disappear? No.
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I feel like I missed the boat. what is empty about "has not been explained"?
were you talking about the thread not being able to be explained by empiricism? well, I don't know what that proves... there are some things that just are too mundane to need explaining. doesnt mean a thing about faith though.
I was talking about baseless claims being empty in the eyes of empiricism. I believe that was the whole point of this thread -- that claims without support are useless. Yet, any claim that indicates this thread could in the future be explained with empiricism, is baseless, and therefore, empty.
As I said, there are many more examples out there besides this thread. This thread, however, is very in the moment, happening with our motivations and desires before our very eyes, which we can observe with ease, and yet, we still have no chance of understanding it using empiricism. It's truly fascinating to me the limitations of science that we can perceive at any given time, yet we casually overlook.
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im glad to see ya back kickle 
Thanks.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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