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iamyour_messiah
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mycelium on casing very fuzzy ---> RH too high or too low???
#10546424 - 06/21/09 08:06 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hey all,
I know this question gets asked alot and I have searched about it using many different terms. Thing is, I get conflicting results. Some say that fuzzy mycelium on a casing is a sign of too much RH, other say its a sign of too little??
In any case there's not much I can do right this instant to increase the RH. I have a cool mist running 24/7 but that doesn't really do the job in my opinion. Perhaps I'm wrong because there's definitely some condensation which sticks to the inside walls of the greenhouse but its very fine condensation. Its moist in there, but far from looking like a sauna where there are drops coming from the roof or smth like that. I made 4 smallish slits in there for some FAE and I'm afraid that in itself already made the RH drop considerably. Don't have a hygrometer as of yet to test it with, but I'm pretty certain its not near 90%. My educated guess would be not more than 70% though. The humidity where I live has been ranging from 60% to 80% the last couple days according to the weather website. Dunno what that would make it inside my house, however...
Here's some pics of one of my casings. It seems to be fuzzing up quite a bit but after like 4-5 days of exposure to light and FAE (and probably also a few degrees drop in temp) I'm not seeing much of any knots. I know some people say just be patient cause it can take up to two weeks, but my prior experience with this strain (PESA) was that it was quite fast in that respect. My question is whether the fuzzing could possibly be detrimental to knot formation or progress in general?



thanks in advance
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Spongiform
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Re: mycelium on casing very fuzzy ---> RH too high or too low??? [Re: iamyour_messiah]
#10546436 - 06/21/09 08:12 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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The whole point of a casing is to provide a micro-climate of optimal humidity just above/at the top of the mycelium to induce pinning.
The only time you want to do this is if you can't provide proper humidity.
Since you're using a greenhouse /w a humidifier that means you don't need a casing to begin with.
Bearing that in mind your trays look great, I'd expect to see pins any time in the next few days.
In the mean time, order a hygrometer and quite guessing.
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RogerRabbit
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Re: mycelium on casing very fuzzy ---> RH too high or too low??? [Re: Spongiform]
#10546505 - 06/21/09 08:35 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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That lumpy texture could be the start of trichoderma. It often looks like that before turning green. Keep your fingers crossed that it isn't trich. Fuzzy mycelium isn't caused by humidity issues. In addition, 99% humidity at pinset formation is great, so you can't have too much, provided you also have good fresh air supply. RR
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veda_sticks
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Re: mycelium on casing very fuzzy ---> RH too high or too low??? [Re: Spongiform]
#10546512 - 06/21/09 08:36 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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You really need a hygrometer to tweak your greenhouse. You shouldnt have to run a humidifier 24/7 to maintain 90%+ rh. It should be raining in there. What kind of humidifier is it? You want an impellar type humidifier. If its a coolmist with a fan and filter, it wont humidify a greenhouse.
Did you use coir as a casing layer? did you use a casing layer at all, because that looks like just bulk substrate. Please use the correct terms as it gets confusing. Casings is not the right term for substrate in a tray. Casing is the act of applying a casing layer. If you had a casing layer it would be a cased substrate. Hpoo cased with 50/50+ would make things much clearer discription.
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hyphae
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Re: mycelium on casing very fuzzy ---> RH too high or too low??? [Re: Spongiform]
#10546521 - 06/21/09 08:38 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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That is certainly not the whole reason for a casing layer it is one of the best reasons though. A casing layer does many things most all of which have to do with moisture and being that our little buddies are 92% moisture I'd say casing layers are a great thing! They provide a lot of the moisture those developing fruits will need to mature this does two things number one it takes the moisture demand off the substrate and the ambient RH to a good degree it also reduces shrinkage of the substrate over time resulting in better flushes/yields. I agree those casings are knotting just fine and pins should follow shortly. Patience is a Virtue I always say! There's a difference between aerial mycelium that is searching for moisture (too dry) and mycelium growing up the stems or on the caps (excessive humidity) if I had a choice I'd always go for the latter! GL
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
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iamyour_messiah
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Re: mycelium on casing very fuzzy ---> RH too high or too low??? [Re: veda_sticks]
#10546548 - 06/21/09 08:50 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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I am aware that it's impossible to just guess the actual humidity and I am in the process of ordering one as we speak. Still though, right now I have to make do without.
The humidifier I have is a cool mist with the kaz dynafilter in it (same as the vicks v420, but its CVS own brand). Perhaps i should just remove the filter then? Either way, it's definitely an impeller type. My problem could be that this is a US appliance which I'm running with the help of a transformer in Europe. It might be getting the right voltage but its made for 60Hz, and its receiving 50Hz right now, so I imagine it probably working a little under its capacity.
Terms I've been using are correct. This is a casing. I spawned my WBS to pasteurized straw, and then cased with 50/50 (peat/verm) once the substrate was fully colonized. At the time of making this specific casing I did not yet have any pH buffer, so its not 50/50+. In fact to make up for the lack of buffer i think it was even like 60 or 70% verm and the rest peat. Not optimal, I know, but it should still work regardless. My subsequent casings which are still incubating as we speak did receive 50/50+, mind you.
Reading the reply by RR about trich, this worries me. I do indeed recall seeing pics of contaminated casings which were covered in lumpy stuff like that. From my limited experience, however, this looks to me like healthy mycelium (aside from the puffyness I suppose). I find it hard to believe that it would get a trich contamination already before a first flush considering the casing layer itself was colonizing so beautifully and without a hitch. Will have to wait and see, I suppose.
edit: just saw this. thanks hyphae for the optimistic response!
Edited by iamyour_messiah (06/21/09 08:52 AM)
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hyphae
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Re: mycelium on casing very fuzzy ---> RH too high or too low??? [Re: iamyour_messiah] 1
#10546613 - 06/21/09 09:08 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Before pins can appear the myc will transition into a generative state in which it knots this is very common. Knotting begins with general clumping (amassing) then nice tight knots (pins). I have never seen a casing trich infected that was that prolific not to say some have succeeded. Without buffers the casing layer is acidic and very inviting for trich so one quick way to tell is to damage a small dense spot and see if it blues it won't always but if it does you'll be golden! GL
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE
"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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iamyour_messiah
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Re: mycelium on casing very fuzzy ---> RH too high or too low??? [Re: hyphae]
#10560010 - 06/23/09 03:32 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Its been two days more now (approx. a week since going into the FC last wednesday). Still no noticeable activity. Hasn't gotten worse looking either though. The smell in the greenhouse is quite mushroomy and in certain parts of the casing layer there's some yellow metabolite buildup which I've been dabbing away carefully with a tissue. This does however imply that its healthy mycelium, right?
Only thing which I can see is different is the lumps of mycelium on the surface arn't all as fuzzy looking anymore. I get the impression this only happened as a result of maybe spraying a bit too much last time around. Its not crazy to assume that the texture would get less fuzzy when 'rained upon' right?
One thing I do find quite strange is that the lumps on top don't seem to really be intertwined with the more whispy looking strands right below on the casing surface. Maybe I'm just thinking too much about it; or maybe you guys can see what I'm referring to in these 2 pictures:


Im obviously not giving up yet, I;m gonna wait it out. But man this is frustrating. Last time i did casings about 2 years ago (those was my first couple attempts) they seemed to grow with absolutely NO problems. Now it seems like around every corner I encounter a new problem...
perseverance is key i guess
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fungusfeller
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Re: mycelium on casing very fuzzy ---> RH too high or too low??? [Re: iamyour_messiah]
#10560338 - 06/23/09 04:44 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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okay, I'm a noob. but, it looks to me like your trays aren't filled to the top, so the less than filled trays are acting like a well that's filled with c02. I'm thinking even though you are providing fae to the green house, the trays are still filled with c02. you mite try taking them out of the trays and put them on wire shelving or put them into a shotgun chamber. or maybe cut the corners of the trays and fold down the sides. couldn't hurt.
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hyphae
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Re: mycelium on casing very fuzzy ---> RH too high or too low??? [Re: fungusfeller]
#10560714 - 06/23/09 06:10 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
fungusfeller said: okay, I'm a noob. but, it looks to me like your trays aren't filled to the top, so the less than filled trays are acting like a well that's filled with c02. I'm thinking even though you are providing fae to the green house, the trays are still filled with c02. you mite try taking them out of the trays and put them on wire shelving or put them into a shotgun chamber. or maybe cut the corners of the trays and fold down the sides. couldn't hurt. 
I'm kinda thinking along the same lines make sure temps are in the fruiting range 74-78F or so and increase FAE's 3-4 per days are usually sufficient each being 20-30sec or so in duration. GL
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE
"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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iamyour_messiah
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Re: mycelium on casing very fuzzy ---> RH too high or too low??? [Re: hyphae]
#10560892 - 06/23/09 06:55 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Although I can totally see where you guys are coming from I dont think thats the real problem. I have two casings actually. The pictures I've been posting are all from one of them, and the one that been pooling some moisture (mostly metabolites, i think) is the one that I havnt posted pictures of.
My problem is not an excess of moisture, and definately not a lack of FAE cause the cool mist is running pretty much 24/7 (a few hours off now and then) and when I put my face next to one of the slits i cut in the walls i can feel a very light breeze coming out.
The problem is just that all I seem to be seeing is fuzzy mycelium blotches (at least on the pictured casing) and less blotching on the othr one, but still no real progress on either.
Could a faulty light regimen be a problem. Thing is I live at quite an irregular schedule due to nights out etc... and often I'm awake late at night till the morning and if I'm hanging out in my room obviously the lights will be on. Often by the time I go to bed the light is coming up outside. So they have definitely been receiving alot of hours of light. Possibly nearing 24/7 (obviously not always fully lit, but sun just coming up etc...) Could too much light be more damaging than not enough??
thanks
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fungusfeller
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Re: mycelium on casing very fuzzy ---> RH too high or too low??? [Re: iamyour_messiah]
#10561502 - 06/23/09 08:56 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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pooling of co2 & h2o two different things.
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The shroomy 1
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Re: mycelium on casing very fuzzy ---> RH too high or too low??? [Re: fungusfeller]
#10561969 - 06/23/09 10:25 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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You know, I truly hate to say this, but the second set of pictures looks unhealthier than the first. The first set of pictures sure the hell looks like TRICH. I don't wish any bad MOJO on your grow. I recommend you buy the required equipment to regulate the humidity while providing PROPER Fresh air exchange. A good hygrometer, a couple of timers and take the time to "Tweak" the cycles. There's no need to be running your humidifier 24/7
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hyphae
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Re: mycelium on casing very fuzzy ---> RH too high or too low??? [Re: The shroomy 1]
#10563457 - 06/24/09 06:04 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm thinking we would be seeing signs of green by now if it was trich this could be a good sign what do you think RR?
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE
"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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RogerRabbit
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Re: mycelium on casing very fuzzy ---> RH too high or too low??? [Re: hyphae]
#10563599 - 06/24/09 07:33 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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I also would have expected it to be green by now. I guess it's just wait and see. RR
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"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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iamyour_messiah
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Re: mycelium on casing very fuzzy ---> RH too high or too low??? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#10564210 - 06/24/09 11:04 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well much to my own surprise I saw little tiny pins on both my casings. There dont seem to be a huge number of them (at least not that I can see just yet) but they are quite evenly dispersed, which I imagine is a positive thing. They are popping out in the corners of the casings but also randomly in the center I see them growing through the fuzzy mycelium blotches. I admit the casings look a bit odd from what I've seen from my own experience, BUT I guess if they are producing mushrooms now it must be ok!!
thanks for all your input!
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iamyour_messiah
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Re: mycelium on casing very fuzzy ---> RH too high or too low??? [Re: iamyour_messiah]
#10570537 - 06/25/09 12:28 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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For anybody interested, here is what these casings look like now. I guess even when you're worried you might have messed it up, you can always get lucky. Or maybe I just kick ass :P
lol but anyway, first pic is of the casing which Ive posted pictures of earlier in the thread:

this is the one I hadn't pictured yet, but it looks absolutely beautiful in my opinion 

can't wait to see what they look like at harvest time!
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fungusfeller
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Re: mycelium on casing very fuzzy ---> RH too high or too low??? [Re: iamyour_messiah]
#10571769 - 06/25/09 03:38 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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iamyour_messiah
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Re: mycelium on casing very fuzzy ---> RH too high or too low??? [Re: fungusfeller]
#10575880 - 06/26/09 09:50 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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I should probably just have opened a new thread for these pics, but I figured it sorta ties in to what my question was about before. Heres how they look approx. 24hrs later:


can't say im unhappy with the results, especially after doubting they would even produce!
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Doc_T
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Re: mycelium on casing very fuzzy ---> RH too high or too low??? [Re: iamyour_messiah]
#10575913 - 06/26/09 09:58 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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That's quite a pinset!
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