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tinker4000
Stranger
Registered: 06/20/09
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Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Sterilization at 6 psi
#10541536 - 06/20/09 07:37 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hi,
I have a large pressure cooker that reaches 6 psi. Am I able to sterilise with this by using it for longer periods of time?
I have seen people successfully sterilise with 8 and 10 psi pressure cookers, but not 6 psi.
I hope that it will be alright.
Thanks.
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200proofhonky
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Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 806
Loc: Timbucktoo
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Re: Sterilization at 6 psi [Re: tinker4000]
#10541553 - 06/20/09 07:47 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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fine for pf tek, you dont need pressure for that,just steam, although pressure is better. If your talking grains i honestly dont know.
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They try to take away everything God gave us,yet...
our money still says "In God We Trust".
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You take a mortal man and put him in control,
Watch him become a God,watch peoples heads a'roll.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you kill a man then your a murderer,kill many an your a conqueror, kill them all and your a God.
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ozzysmygod
Late Night PC'ing Enthusiast



Registered: 11/26/08
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It would be Ideal for steaming PF TEK jars, as the tek calls for a tight fitting pot lid, don't get much tighter than a pressure cooker lid! however to sterilize grains it would probably take 3 hours or more, and you might run out of water. Id see what a trusted culitvator has to say
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cool33
2


Registered: 03/27/09
Posts: 111
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
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Re: Sterilization at 6 psi [Re: ozzysmygod]
#10541885 - 06/20/09 10:09 AM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah, depends on what ur talking about, pf tek yes, WBS/Grains I don't think so. But I may be wrong.
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ArcanePerception
The only rule isthe golden rule



Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 435
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: Sterilization at 6 psi [Re: cool33]
#10542381 - 06/20/09 12:09 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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well 5 psi = 225F, while 15 psi = 250F.
The canning industry for foodstuffs uses 14.7 psi. I am sure they picked that number for a reason because it would be cheaper to process at 5 or 6 psi than 14.7 psi.
That being said in a sanitation and sterilization manual for foodstuffs it says that all but a few exotic species of living mold and bacteria die when an internal temp of 212F is maintained for an hour.
The spores however can survive temps of 1250F + for more than an hour.
So to accomplish full sterilization factories use a 3 part process: A heating followed by a 24 hour germination period. then a second heating. Then another 24 hour germination period. Then a final heating
-------------------- Oh, welcome to this world of fools
Of pink champagne and swimming pools
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200proofhonky
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Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 806
Loc: Timbucktoo
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Quote:
ArcanePerception said: well 5 psi = 225F, while 15 psi = 250F.
The canning industry for foodstuffs uses 14.7 psi. I am sure they picked that number for a reason because it would be cheaper to process at 5 or 6 psi than 14.7 psi.
That being said in a sanitation and sterilization manual for foodstuffs it says that all but a few exotic species of living mold and bacteria die when an internal temp of 212F is maintained for an hour.
The spores however can survive temps of 1250F + for more than an hour.
So to accomplish full sterilization factories use a 3 part process: A heating followed by a 24 hour germination period. then a second heating. Then another 24 hour germination period. Then a final heating
this is why we use at 15psi with grains and soak them 24hrs before to germinate endospores. I believe you are referring to fractional sterilization which may work in the food industry but for grains it is unreliable from what i heard.
you could do a test run at 6psi but personally i would pick up a good Pc from ebay and be done with it, i got a great one for 30 bucks and they have em' cheaper than that.
-------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They try to take away everything God gave us,yet...
our money still says "In God We Trust".
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You take a mortal man and put him in control,
Watch him become a God,watch peoples heads a'roll.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you kill a man then your a murderer,kill many an your a conqueror, kill them all and your a God.
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Livingston
Space Ranger

Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 223
Loc: Cali
Last seen: 15 years, 5 months
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Maybe?
I know of a member who is messing around with 55 gallon drums for sterilization at 5 psi...
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200proofhonky
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Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 806
Loc: Timbucktoo
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Re: Sterilization at 6 psi [Re: Livingston]
#10543134 - 06/20/09 02:44 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Livingston said: Maybe?
I know of a member who is messing around with 55 gallon drums for sterilization at 5 psi...
55 gallon drums would be interesting, i guess if you can make it reliable consistently it would be worth a try with that amount of spawn but IMO its not worth all the extra time and work when preparing smaller amounts with a PC at home when good PC's are pretty cheap. When talking about 55 gallons of spawn its a different story, the extra time to do a fractional sterilization method thats dependable may be worth it.
-------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They try to take away everything God gave us,yet...
our money still says "In God We Trust".
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You take a mortal man and put him in control,
Watch him become a God,watch peoples heads a'roll.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you kill a man then your a murderer,kill many an your a conqueror, kill them all and your a God.
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tinker4000
Stranger
Registered: 06/20/09
Posts: 8
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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I should have specified, I'm talking about for the sterilisation of grains.
When I bought the PC I was under the impression it was 11.6 psi, which is fine, but it actually turns out it is 6 psi.
I really need to know an answer on this for sure. If it take 5 or 6 hours instead of 2, so be it, but I just need to know whether the temperature is even hot enough to fully sterilise the grains.
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RogerRabbit
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Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
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Re: Sterilization at 6 psi [Re: tinker4000]
#10544102 - 06/20/09 06:59 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'd give quart jars about 3 hours at six psi.
I'm the one developing a system for sterilizing in 55 gallon drums, but I'll continue to do my grains in All American sterilizers at 15 psi. The drums are for supplemented sawdust and 5 psi will be the maximum. By using rice bran as the supplement, I can sterilize at a lower temperature, similar to the brf tek. RR
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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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tinker4000
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Registered: 06/20/09
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Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Thanks for the input RR, I appreciate it.
Would you be able to give me an estimated time for 2 quart jars?
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200proofhonky
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Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 806
Loc: Timbucktoo
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Re: Sterilization at 6 psi [Re: tinker4000]
#10544228 - 06/20/09 07:51 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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i think he means 3 hrs for any amount of quart jars you can fit in your cooker, in fact i know thats what he means Sometimes RR gets busy and only posts once so if i were you i would just do 3 hrs with as many quarts as you can fit in your cooker.
If your talking jars that are actually 2 quarts per jar (which ive never heard of) then i would lengthen the time.
-------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They try to take away everything God gave us,yet...
our money still says "In God We Trust".
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You take a mortal man and put him in control,
Watch him become a God,watch peoples heads a'roll.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you kill a man then your a murderer,kill many an your a conqueror, kill them all and your a God.
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tinker4000
Stranger
Registered: 06/20/09
Posts: 8
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Thanks, but I am actually talking about jars with a 2 quart capacity.
I know I'd need to lengthen the time to sterilize them, but I would just like to know by how much exactly.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
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Re: Sterilization at 6 psi [Re: tinker4000]
#10544378 - 06/20/09 08:25 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Don't mess with 1/2 gallon or 2 liter jars until you get a bigger PC that operates at 15 PSI/ 100 kpa. If you're going to sterilize at 6 psi, be sure to follow the grain prep tek from my site. You need the soak and boil before the sterilization. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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200proofhonky
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Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 806
Loc: Timbucktoo
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Re: Sterilization at 6 psi [Re: tinker4000] 1
#10544484 - 06/20/09 08:53 PM (15 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
tinker4000 said: Thanks, but I am actually talking about jars with a 2 quart capacity.
I know I'd need to lengthen the time to sterilize them, but I would just like to know by how much exactly.
huh,cool, those arent very common around here but ya, what RR said, you need a good PC, it will last a life time and is a necessity for this hobby, at least i think it is. GL
-------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They try to take away everything God gave us,yet...
our money still says "In God We Trust".
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You take a mortal man and put him in control,
Watch him become a God,watch peoples heads a'roll.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you kill a man then your a murderer,kill many an your a conqueror, kill them all and your a God.
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ArcanePerception
The only rule isthe golden rule



Registered: 04/30/05
Posts: 435
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Quote:
200proofhonky said:
Quote:
ArcanePerception said: well 5 psi = 225F, while 15 psi = 250F.
The canning industry for foodstuffs uses 14.7 psi. I am sure they picked that number for a reason because it would be cheaper to process at 5 or 6 psi than 14.7 psi.
That being said in a sanitation and sterilization manual for foodstuffs it says that all but a few exotic species of living mold and bacteria die when an internal temp of 212F is maintained for an hour.
The spores however can survive temps of 1250F + for more than an hour.
So to accomplish full sterilization factories use a 3 part process: A heating followed by a 24 hour germination period. then a second heating. Then another 24 hour germination period. Then a final heating
this is why we use at 15psi with grains and soak them 24hrs before to germinate endospores. I believe you are referring to fractional sterilization which may work in the food industry but for grains it is unreliable from what i heard.
you could do a test run at 6psi but personally i would pick up a good Pc from ebay and be done with it, i got a great one for 30 bucks and they have em' cheaper than that.
yes I was talking about fractional sterilization of canned veggies which is not sterile in a medical sense but is considered fully sterilized by public health standards. I have never opened a rotten can of anything.
According to industry standards in the US the goal is to get the very center of the food to hold at 212F after germinating spores because you cant kill spores with heat anyway without destroying the food.
so 6psi will get you to an internal temp of 212f but will it take 2 hours or 9 to get there
-------------------- Oh, welcome to this world of fools
Of pink champagne and swimming pools
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200proofhonky
bluethumb



Registered: 06/26/08
Posts: 806
Loc: Timbucktoo
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Quote:
ArcanePerception said:
Quote:
200proofhonky said:
Quote:
ArcanePerception said: well 5 psi = 225F, while 15 psi = 250F.
The canning industry for foodstuffs uses 14.7 psi. I am sure they picked that number for a reason because it would be cheaper to process at 5 or 6 psi than 14.7 psi.
That being said in a sanitation and sterilization manual for foodstuffs it says that all but a few exotic species of living mold and bacteria die when an internal temp of 212F is maintained for an hour.
The spores however can survive temps of 1250F + for more than an hour.
So to accomplish full sterilization factories use a 3 part process: A heating followed by a 24 hour germination period. then a second heating. Then another 24 hour germination period. Then a final heating
this is why we use at 15psi with grains and soak them 24hrs before to germinate endospores. I believe you are referring to fractional sterilization which may work in the food industry but for grains it is unreliable from what i heard.
you could do a test run at 6psi but personally i would pick up a good Pc from ebay and be done with it, i got a great one for 30 bucks and they have em' cheaper than that.
yes I was talking about fractional sterilization of canned veggies which is not sterile in a medical sense but is considered fully sterilized by public health standards. I have never opened a rotten can of anything.
According to industry standards in the US the goal is to get the very center of the food to hold at 212F after germinating spores because you cant kill spores with heat anyway without destroying the food.
so 6psi will get you to an internal temp of 212f but will it take 2 hours or 9 to get there
i completely understand now, i see your point so why does everyone frown on fractional sterilization??
-------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They try to take away everything God gave us,yet...
our money still says "In God We Trust".
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You take a mortal man and put him in control,
Watch him become a God,watch peoples heads a'roll.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you kill a man then your a murderer,kill many an your a conqueror, kill them all and your a God.
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Because it fails more than half the time. I've worked in a lot of canneries and I've never seen more than one retort run at 15 psi. They also drop a salt tablet in every can, which retards bacterial growth. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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george castanza
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Registered: 10/21/02
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-------------------- KRAMER CAKES


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tinker4000
Stranger
Registered: 06/20/09
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Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Don't mess with 1/2 gallon or 2 liter jars until you get a bigger PC that operates at 15 PSI/ 100 kpa. If you're going to sterilize at 6 psi, be sure to follow the grain prep tek from my site. You need the soak and boil before the sterilization. RR
Well the problem is that it is a 53 quart pressure cooker, so it is definitely large enough to accomodate several 2 liter jars and I know where to get 2 liter jars for very cheap, but not suitable quart jars.
I've done grain many times before, but with a small 13 psi pressure cooker, so this isn't the problem.
I'm just unsure about how long to run this 6 psi PC for when using 2 liter jars. If anyone can give me an idea, it would really help.
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