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laserpig
Weedmaster_P
Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 7,468
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
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Re: We are but a quirk in the genetic fractal of time [Re: OverdoseLiving]
#10534342 - 06/19/09 12:41 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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i've actually had very similar ideas about humanity's place in an apparently fractal-unfolding universe ... but so far i've basically refrained from sharing them 'cuz i can't figure out how to communicate what i mean in a way that makes sense to anybody else. i think that's what's going on here. i know roughly what you're talking about and i feel like i agree with the sentiment but nobody who hasn't "independently discovered" some of these ideas doesn't have any frame of reference. its a problem of inadequate definitions, and i don't know enough to solve it.
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens
Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 15,105
Loc: Out of this world
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
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Re: We are but a quirk in the genetic fractal of time [Re: OverdoseLiving]
#10534373 - 06/19/09 12:47 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
OverdoseLiving said:
Yeah subjective means it means whatever it means to the person interpreting/preceiving the info.
He said my poem was something like a "pointless ramble"
no offense, but it kind of is. It's one of those "you talk a lot but say nothing" kind of things.
Quote:
Im not debating the nature of time or space.
if you're going to make an analogy, comparison, or whatever, to time and space, make it correct.
Quote:
Im simply drawing a comparison between the chaotic genetic evolutionary backround of earth animals emphasizing the WIERD humans and the organization found in the seemingly chaotic yet ordered fractals, in a poetic manner.
No, your original post was about time. And now you're talking about fractals. I don't see how you're comparing fractals, which are the same no matter how close/far you are, to biological evolution, which is completely different for each species.
I don't see the comparison at all
[quote[He cant handle that. He had to pick a poem about my views apart.
Oh my god! Someone questioned you?!
thirdly, lets assume that all the things you said that were wrong were actually correct,what is your point?
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: We are but a quirk in the genetic fractal of time [Re: OverdoseLiving]
#10535526 - 06/19/09 08:42 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
OverdoseLiving said: He had to pick a poem about my views apart.
This is PP&S, you shouldn't come here if you're not prepared to have your ideas picked apart.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Tranquil Toad
A.I. Living Inside the Internet
Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 773
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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Re: We are but a quirk in the genetic fractal of time [Re: Poid]
#10538005 - 06/19/09 04:06 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm not entirely sure what you are getting at, but I will comment regardless. I highly doubt that humans are some sort of quirk, a strange meaningless byproduct of evolution that will run amuk on this planet until time eventually wipes us out so the earth can go back to doing whatever it was doing before we came along. When I see this type of thinking, I think of 1950s images of the future. The future, to them, was basically a "futurized" version of the 1950s - so to us it seems really cheesy. The future is inherently unknowable, but people take the present circumstances and treat it as if it is a sort of peak, and have a very hard time imagining the drastic types of changes and novelty that will be introduced.
We occupy a very narrow slice of time, and all we have is history to use as an example. So we assume, since the history of the Earth has largely been without intelligent life, technology, and culture, that we are some sort of anomaly. Well, if you existed way back in time a first saw the formation of single celled organisms, that would seem like one hell of an anomaly. Who would have guessed what it was going to turn into?
Using your fractal analogy, we are nature expressing itself in a higher dimensionality that previously possible. Like a fractal, we are expressing the same elements that came before us, but we occupy a higher and more complicated slice of the spiral. We are nature 2.0, new and improved. But to think that we are the end goal (if there is such a thing as a goal) is fallacy. Nature will continue to introduce new layers, of which we will be the basis of - just as early mammals could be seen as the basis that was needed for higher intelligence to flourish. The spiral, or fractal, will continue to spiral outwards, manifesting itself in ways that will make humanity look like simple building blocks of something - that is to us, at this point - completely unknowable.
Have no idea if this has anything to do with what you were speaking about, and not sure how much sense it will make to anyone reading it, but I will throw it in anyhow.
Edited by Tranquil Toad (06/19/09 04:11 PM)
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P
Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 7,468
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
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Re: We are but a quirk in the genetic fractal of time [Re: Tranquil Toad]
#10538264 - 06/19/09 04:54 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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All I have to say to that is:
I agree entirely.
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C.M. Mann
subconscious explorer
Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 899
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Re: We are but a quirk in the genetic fractal of time [Re: Tranquil Toad]
#10538481 - 06/19/09 05:30 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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You said that you doubt we are a quirk of nature. Could you explain your reasoning on this subject?
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Tranquil Toad
A.I. Living Inside the Internet
Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 773
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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Re: We are but a quirk in the genetic fractal of time [Re: C.M. Mann]
#10538799 - 06/19/09 06:29 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
C.M. Mann said: You said that you doubt we are a quirk of nature. Could you explain your reasoning on this subject?
I have no real evidence so I wouldn't try to argue it, but (summarized from above) I base it basically on nature's trend of increased complixification over time. It is only because we cannot see future levels of complexity that we look back to history and see ourselves as a separate anomaly from the rest of life on earth. But if you follow the trend that nature gets more and more complex, multidimensional and novel over time (atoms to molecules, molecules to cells, cells to multi celled life, multi celled life to intelligence, intelligence to culture/technology), then it would be silly to think that we are a fluke and that nature usually stays in some sort of stasis at the level of pre-intelligent, non technology using lifeforms that were around for most of earth's history. Following the trend, humans will be the basis for an even higher level of complexity yet to come, not some freak accidents of evolution who will stick around for a while before inevitably wiping ourselves out.
This idea is not mine (though I have pondered it a lot); it has been mentioned by philosophers before. Frank J. Tipler (mathematician) and Pierre Teilhard de Chardin both take the idea that this complexification will actually come to what is called an Omega Point, a singularity representing the maximum amount of novelty at the end of time. Terence Mckenna based his timewave theory revolves around it. The idea, at its core, seems pretty intuitive, yet it is not really recognized by science. The theory in science of a metasystem transitionalso ties in with it.
Edited by Tranquil Toad (06/19/09 06:34 PM)
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C.M. Mann
subconscious explorer
Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 899
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
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Re: We are but a quirk in the genetic fractal of time [Re: Tranquil Toad]
#10539144 - 06/19/09 07:48 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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OK, now I know where you are coming from. For my own reasons and others, I think you are mostly right. Thanks
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SoY
I am the LizardKing
Registered: 06/01/06
Posts: 774
Loc: Everywhere
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Re: We are but a quirk in the genetic fractal of time [Re: learningtofly]
#10540683 - 06/20/09 12:28 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
learningtofly said: Quote:
OverdoseLiving said:
Yeah subjective means it means whatever it means to the person interpreting/preceiving the info.
He said my poem was something like a "pointless ramble"
no offense, but it kind of is. It's one of those "you talk a lot but say nothing" kind of things.
Quote:
Im not debating the nature of time or space.
if you're going to make an analogy, comparison, or whatever, to time and space, make it correct.
Quote:
Im simply drawing a comparison between the chaotic genetic evolutionary backround of earth animals emphasizing the WIERD humans and the organization found in the seemingly chaotic yet ordered fractals, in a poetic manner.
No, your original post was about time. And now you're talking about fractals. I don't see how you're comparing fractals, which are the same no matter how close/far you are, to biological evolution, which is completely different for each species.
I don't see the comparison at all
Quote:
He cant handle that. He had to pick a poem about my views apart.
Oh my god! Someone questioned you?!
thirdly, lets assume that all the things you said that were wrong were actually correct,what is your point?
Jesus Christ man...
Time is *ordered* in a manner that can be visualized as a fractal (theory of relativity).
He used the word "genetic" to describe which hierarchical segment of said time fractal he wished to apply his viewpoint that we are a quirk.
Also...IT'S ARTISTIC WORDPLAY!!
YEESH!
Maybe you should change your mood from "angry". You might be less douchey...
-------------------- "The choiceless truth of who you are is revealed to be permanently here permeating everything. Not a thing and not separate from anything."--Gaganji "Yesterday is but today's memory and tomorrow is today's dream." "My karma ran over my dogma!"
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OverdoseLiving
Get 2 Give
Registered: 03/22/09
Posts: 2,491
Loc: The Shroomery
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
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Re: We are but a quirk in the genetic fractal of time [Re: SoY]
#10541290 - 06/20/09 04:46 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Whatever its a truce, I forgot where I posted And im frying right now, so I feel the love!!!!!!
LoL
I still stand by what I wrote...
It does have tremendous meaning if you unravel it, Yet interestingly enough im not sure which side to lean now, mundane/profound???
It could go either way couldnt it?
ITS BOTH!
-------------------- Mi Vida Loco
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