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Invisiblexganon
polydrug abuser
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 109
Loc: here
more thoughts
    #1053407 - 11/14/02 07:54 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Crippling ADD makes it impossible to form coherant single long posts. The ideas are stronger than I am. My apologies.

Why isn't birth as much of a enigma as death is? Why don't we wonder what happened before we were born?

I appear to have acheived my goal of isolating myself from false external perspective. I'm in it alone now. This is not refusing information. This is refusing communal ego. This is placing the root (consciousness) where it belongs (above everything else), because everything else is through consciousness, which is therefore the most important element and the source of all others in our hierarchy. All springs from the Eye. All of society still has to be reflected through it to be.

Changes have been made. Humanity is no longer identified with. Nothing external is trusted or validated. Drugs every day broke the inertia. I'm freeing myself, but what now?

A drive to transcend exists. It pushes me to view things from all perspectives, not just mine. It pushes me towards being everything, not just me. I am driven to become the whole Universe and everything in it. I don't want to be anything. I want to be everything and nothing, which have always been the same. Just not a fraction.

Can't take Adderall anymore because it turns me into a wild-eyed delusional ego-mystic.

The communal mind is sick. I refuse to partake of it. I speak of the communal mind seen on CNN. My perspective is the biggest one of them all, because everything else is encapsulated inside of it.

Not much more to write at the moment.


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
Loc: Hyperspace
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: more thoughts [Re: xganon]
    #1053719 - 11/14/02 09:48 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

add is bullshit.


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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OfflineMetasyn
one

Registered: 09/02/02
Posts: 236
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Re: more thoughts [Re: xganon]
    #1054179 - 11/15/02 12:47 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

A drive to transcend exists. It pushes me to view things from all perspectives, not just mine. It pushes me towards being everything, not just me. I am driven to become the whole Universe and everything in it. I don't want to be anything. I want to be everything and nothing, which have always been the same. Just not a fraction.

I feel the exact same way. Have you figured out any way of getting there in this lifetime? I'm still working on that part.


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Offlinegnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/30/99
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Re: more thoughts [Re: xganon]
    #1054888 - 11/15/02 06:59 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

ya. amphetamines to treat adhd is often like using a hammer to swat a fly...
i do wish that docs & health care providers would start off simply -- like eliminating possible allergens or triggering chemicals form diet (such as certain food dyes, artificial flavoring & sweeteners, excess amounts of sucrose, and the more common food or mold allergens...), and then, still optimizing dietary concerns, test-driving some of the "minor" stimulants such as caffeine/theophylline/theobromine/guaranine, or herbal ephedra, or other herbs such as ginseng, ginkgo, gotu kola, or other tonic/stimulant herbs or combos, and then the gamut of nootropics & amino-acid relatives, etc...
i betcha less than 10% of the "ADDers" would end up on ritalin or pemoline or amphetamines...
of course, finding the optimal fix for each individual might take a few months of fiddling around, and would take many hours of interaction between patient, family, nutritional counselor, insurance coverage folks, and "regular" doctors...
i suppose it is easier to write out a scrip for adderal...
~
the communal mind...
humans are busy little apes, aren't we?
busy hands, busy minds...
but, as with our own mind... there seems to be more to us than freud's "ego/id/super-ego" (or whatever the current model is :wink: ...) --- well, the "big mind" of which we may be a part is more than just the sum, or even the product, of human mental activities...
how to listen, how to be part of, the gaian mind...
how to realize & manifest buddha mind...
to know christ-consciousness...
what do do with the evidence of our senses...
trying to figure how we got here, and where we are going...
and what to do in between...
and working out the issues that arise from the dichotomy of "self" and "other"...
obviously the work of a lifetime (at least :wink: ...)
and the problem of suffering...
and the value of compassion...
~
roshi kapleau was visiting a friend who was dying in the hospital... and he started off the visit with "well, here we are again"
~
being alone can help, sometimes...
but... here we are...
be well, take care of yourself, take care of your selves...
~
"attention...
karuna...
here and now, boys, here and now"
(quoth the birdies of pala)
~
~
~


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


Edited by gnrm23 (11/15/02 07:03 AM)


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
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Re: more thoughts [Re: gnrm23]
    #1055518 - 11/15/02 01:48 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

ADD didn't exist until they invented it - its like GOD.

They go "oooo look at you little kid you can't pay attention in school... you've got 'A D D' so here's a bunch of drugs that will help your very sensitive condition."

By saying that, they've given you this abstract ADD and made you comfortable with the fact that you're too internal and not paying enough attention to the outside world.

It should be the other way around - they need to say "uhh hey if you like being so internal and not paying attention we can just throw you in a cell somewhere if you want.... we need you to pay attention - you're being weird and you have the power to stop this! just snap the fuck out of it, you spacey-ass kid!"

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
ADD is a bullshit term they use to describe MANY issues they don't even look into anymore because "hey its add.. what can we do?"


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Invisiblexganon
polydrug abuser
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 109
Loc: here
Re: more thoughts [Re: gnrm23]
    #1056049 - 11/15/02 04:15 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

> ya. amphetamines to treat adhd is often like using a hammer to swat a fly...


Have you ever had ADD (or amphetamine, for that matter)? Adderall is a valuable tool which improves the quality of my life tremendously. It is frustrating beyond words to have so much focus that one is immolated in a frenzy of self-concentration after 10 seconds of doing anything.

> i suppose it is easier to write out a scrip for adderal...

I had to explain to my doctor that I had acquired Adderall from a friend and that it worked far better than Ritalin before he would prescribe me any. He wanted to give me antidepressants instead.

> the communal mind...

You speak of something completely different than what I spoke of. My communal mind is what gives people PTSD over trivial nonsense like terrorist attacks. Your communal mind appears to be a different animal entirely.

"Common sense" or what "everyone" thinks is the illusory communal mind. I hope that I can someday experience what you speak of (my lack of experience makes it almost impossible to reply to).


--------------------
Please remove all dollar signs from my listed contact information


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Invisiblexganon
polydrug abuser
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 109
Loc: here
Re: more thoughts [Re: Strumpling]
    #1056078 - 11/15/02 04:25 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

> ADD didn't exist until they invented it - its like GOD.

Or like most of the laws of science. These abstract concepts (which only 'exist' in the mind) describe very real patterns in the foam of events which make up our lives.

> They go "oooo look at you little kid you can't pay attention in school...
> you've got 'A D D' so here's a bunch of drugs that will help your very
> sensitive condition."

What about work? I consider work to be charity. I try to put extra effort into my job because I know it's going to make someone's life easier. Contributing to overall peace of mind in addition to the blocks of time I'm selling. I prefer to be able to enjoy this instead of sitting around in a unpleasant introspective haze.

> By saying that, they've given you this abstract ADD and made you comfortable
> with the fact that you're too internal and not paying enough attention to the
> outside world.

What if one wishes to pay attention to the outside world at times?

> It should be the other way around - they need to say "uhh hey if you like
> being so internal and not paying attention we can just throw you in a cell
> somewhere if you want.... we need you to pay attention - you're being weird
> and you have the power to stop this! just snap the fuck out of it, you spacey-
> ass kid!"

So you advocate imprisoning anybody who's neurological state prevents them from functioning society in a sanitarium (or monestary...) instead of allowing them access to the necessary tools to change that neurological state?

> ADD is a bullshit term they use to describe MANY issues they don't even look
> into anymore because "hey its add.. what can we do?"

My doctor says my ADD symptoms are caused by very mild high-functioning autism. I think that direct causality doesn't apply to these things. What else can they do?

I view mental disorders as templates for treatment. Different drugs treat different complaints. These relationships fall into clumps. We call these clumps "disorders". It isn't always this way, though.


--------------------
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Invisiblexganon
polydrug abuser
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 109
Loc: here
Re: more thoughts [Re: Metasyn]
    #1056097 - 11/15/02 04:29 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

> I feel the exact same way. Have you figured out any way of getting there in
> this lifetime? I'm still working on that part.

My love of dextromethorphan feels related to this drive. You may wish to research this yourself (note that I have heavily used it and suffer no brain damage). I really need more DXM+psilocybin experiences (with higher doses of psilocybin) before I can comment on how that relates to this.

Ever use MDMA? I have always been terrified that it will hijjack this drive and trap me into a specific instance, so I have never taken it.


--------------------
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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
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Re: more thoughts [Re: xganon]
    #1056478 - 11/15/02 07:12 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

they told me I had ADD when I was a small child.. They put me on ritalin, and all it did was make me shakey so I stopped taking it. I felt really stupid and actually started paying less attention to everything from the point they told me i had an attention disorder..

But within several months I realized indirectly that through them saying I had ADD and putting me on this medication that hey maybe I'm not paying enough attention to the outside world as I'm supposed to! Maybe thats what they were trying to say! Maybe they should have told me that instead of telling me I had some disorder and that I need drugs to fix it.

I made a conscious effort to PAY ATTENTION to whats going on around me and I'll be damned; my professionally-diagnosed "ADD" disappeared.

My point was that they shouldn't tell these kids "hey listen: there's something totally wrong with you - take these pills and hopefully we can suppress this nasty disorder so you can live a normal life." They should be telling these kids that they're simply being a bit too internal.

I didn't mean lock them up, I meant basically express ideas like "Hey you're spending too much time drifing around in your own thoughts.... Thats not a good way to act this day in age - you have to be a bit more external.. they lock people up when they stop responding to the environment, and we don't want you going in that direction. You can change, it just takes some effort - when the teacher's up there: PAY ATTENTION... when you're taking a test... PAY ATTENTION.. when you're laying in bed at home, or when you have nothing to do, space-out all you want!! Thats your right, but only on your own free time :smile: - when you're with other people you have to spend some of your mental energy on observing and reacting to them."

I guess i'm not explianing myself clearly... it must be my attention deficit disorder

-=- Matt/Strumpling -=-
what? i'm sorry i lost track of our conversation..


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (11/15/02 07:13 PM)


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OfflineMurex
Reality Hacker

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 3,599
Loc: Traped in a shell.
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: more thoughts [Re: Strumpling]
    #1056758 - 11/15/02 09:48 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

they told me I had ADD when I was a small child.. They put me on ritalin, and all it did was make me shakey so I stopped taking it.

Same here.

I like your post Strump, I definately agree with it. I liked being quiet and internal, I still do. Society shouldn't tell someone how to act, if someone is quiet, just freakin let them be! It's just another example of being shaped by society.

It's like tieng a baby animals' leg to it's body so when it grows up, it won't grow normally- in order for that 'look' or whatever. We have all been shaped by authority since birth.

:mad: 


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Offlinegnrm23
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 08/30/99
Posts: 6,481
Loc: n. e. OH, USSA
Last seen: 7 days, 20 hours
Re: more thoughts [Re: xganon]
    #1057770 - 11/16/02 09:39 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

yes i have had amphetamines & similar chems (dexedrine, meth, ritalin, pemoline, 4Me-aminorex, etc...)
i was never diagnosed with ADD/hyperactivity, but i graduated from high school in 1970 - so when i was in primary school back in the late 50s/early 60s, i don't even think that hyperactivity was defined as a learning disability (so i just spent a lot of time in the "naughty corner" in kindergarden because i didn't want to sit as still as the teacher wanted me to  :wink: ...)
my point about diagnosing kids with ADD & related "disorders" is that it is quite possible that many of them may have some sort of allergic reaction to something in their diet or environment (and should be the frist place to start looking for the "cause" of the "problem"...)
once the possibility of allergens being the trigger is eliminated, then investigation of the efficacy of various stimulant as regards the condition should be investigated... starting with "mild" stims like caffeine, DMAE, celastrus, etc, and if no improvement is noted, moving on to "strong" stims like pemoline, ritalin, & the amphetamines & relatives...
~
and attention, well, sure, that's the key... focus, dig?
& compasssion, compassion for self and for others...
"turn on your love light" ...
~
ymmv...
~
~


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


Edited by gnrm23 (11/16/02 02:18 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: more thoughts [Re: xganon]
    #1057779 - 11/16/02 09:55 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Nice to see you back posting.

As far as the psychiatric paradigm is concerned I find it flawed in its foundation. This is not to say that chemicals cannot influence in the functioning of the brain but merely to add that other facts are not considered in the equation.

"Mental health" professionals disagree but why would they not? They have to make a living. Best of luck.


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Invisiblexganon
polydrug abuser
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 109
Loc: here
Re: more thoughts [Re: ]
    #1058091 - 11/16/02 02:38 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

To me, the sole purpose of psychiatry is a source of drugs which I may then self-medicate with. Trying to think from "society's perspective" is futile, since humanity appears to not be designed to prosper. Humanity's nature is to suffer, so either that nature must be changed or suffering will simply take place. When we get far out enough to dissolve ego-boundaries we transcend suffering anyways, so my perspective becomes as meaningless as society's, rather than the opposite occuring.


--------------------
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OfflineDavid_Scape
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Male

Registered: 08/05/02
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Re: more thoughts [Re: xganon]
    #1058097 - 11/16/02 02:43 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I fear that the drugs they give out now, eventually damage the area of the brain they are trying to provide 'therapy' to.


--------------------
focusing
Flow
The Enneagram


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Invisiblexganon
polydrug abuser
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 109
Loc: here
Re: more thoughts [Re: David_Scape]
    #1058412 - 11/16/02 05:52 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Which drugs? Surely you don't believe all drugs are neurotoxic, do you? Is amphetamine (used in moderation with no binges or sleep deprivation) really very neurotoxic? Can you back this up at all (personal experience is fine if well-described)?


--------------------
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Invisiblexganon
polydrug abuser
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 109
Loc: here
Re: more thoughts [Re: Strumpling]
    #1058417 - 11/16/02 05:54 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

The most direct expression of said meme I've heard in this thread.


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OfflineDavid_Scape
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Re: more thoughts [Re: xganon]
    #1058857 - 11/16/02 10:05 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Which drugs?
All drugs.

Surely you don't believe all drugs are neurotoxic, do you? Is amphetamine (used in moderation with no binges or sleep deprivation) really very neurotoxic? Can you back this up at all (personal experience is fine if well-described)?

Well, I wouldnt take adderal everyday like what was prescibed to me a while ago. If i had a supply of adderal handy , I probably couldnt resist using it once in while to start a day full of work. But on the other hand, a nice strong cup of coffee on an empty stomach does the same for me so...  :grin:

As far as neurotoxicity goes, I dont really know of any drug that is.

I understand that used in moderation no major damage will be done.

 


--------------------
focusing
Flow
The Enneagram


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OfflineDavid_Scape
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Re: more thoughts [Re: David_Scape]
    #1058973 - 11/16/02 11:08 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

As far as neurotoxicity goes, I dont really know of any drug that is.

I take that back. MDMA may be.
I remeber reading an article somewhere...hmm.
google


--------------------
focusing
Flow
The Enneagram


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