|
lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.



Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
|
Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe
#10517132 - 06/16/09 01:49 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
JOHANNESBURG – United States (US) President Barack Obama on Friday promised Prime Minister Morgan Tsangira US$73 million humanitarian assistance, underlining that the money would not be chanelled through the cash-strapped Zimbabwean government.
‘‘I have committed US$73 million in assistance to Zimbabwe . . . (the aid) will not be going to the government directly because we continue to be concerned about consolidating democracy, human rights and rule of law, but it will be going directly to the people in Zimbabwe," said Obama in a statement after meeting Tsvangirai.
The money that the US said would go toward fighting HIV/AIDS and promoting good governance in the southern African nation will be channelled through aid agencies.
The Zimbabwean Premier who formed a unity government with President Robert Mugabe in February was in Washington, part of a three-week trip to America and Europe to try to drum up financial support for the power-sharing government.
Western nations who have long isolated Zimbabwe, accusing Mugabe of trampling on democracy and ruining a once-vibrant economy, are withholding direct financial support to the Harare administration unconvinced Mugabe is genuinely committed to democratic change or to sharing power with his former opposition foes.
"We now have a power-sharing agreement that shows promise," Obama said, with Tsvangirai sitting next to him in the Oval Office and praised the Zimbabwean Premier’s efforts to tackle hyperinflation that has devastated the economy and to improve the daily lives of Zimbabweans who face chronic food shortages and an unemployment rate of over 90 percent.
Obama, who in March extended sanctions against Mugabe and his ZANU PF party functionaries, said that the US was prepared to work with Tsvangirai but would not give money directly to the unity government because of concerns about governance.
"President Mugabe has not acted in the best interests of the Zimbabwean people and has been resistant to the kinds of democratic changes that need to take place," Obama said.
Tsvangirai is also scheduled to visit France, Britain, Sweden and Belgium.
Once a regional breadbasket, Zimbabwe is in the grip of a severe economic crisis and food shortages that Mugabe blames on poor weather and Western sanctions he says have hampered importation of fertilizers, seed, and other farming inputs.
Critics blame Zimbabwe's troubles on repression and wrong polices by Mugabe such as his land reforms that displaced established white commercial farmers and replaced them with either incompetent or inadequately funded black farmers leading to a massive drop in farm production.
Mugabe has defended the chaotic and often violent farm seizures as necessary to correct a colonial land tenure system that reserved most of the best arable land for whites while blacks were banished to arid and poor lands.
But critics say Mugabe’s cronies – and not ordinary peasants – benefited the most from farm seizures with some of them ending up with as many as six farms each against the government’s stated one-man-one-farm policy. — ZimOnline
http://www.zimonline.co.za/Article.aspx?ArticleId=4730
more of our money down the toilet...
We shouldn’t be giving anyone any aid!, we're almost bankrupt and we need some aid!
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
|
Yrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: lonestar2004]
#10517216 - 06/16/09 02:05 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
the US has already gotten trillions in aid in the form of foreign loans. unfortunately for the lenders, they will soon find that we're just as likely as zimbabwe to pay any of it back.
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
|
lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.



Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Yrat]
#10518171 - 06/16/09 04:25 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
|
Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: lonestar2004]
#10518196 - 06/16/09 04:30 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
If Mugabe was out of the picture, I would feel a lot better about this.
|
lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.



Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Redstorm]
#10518233 - 06/16/09 04:34 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
obama promised it would go to the people.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
|
Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: lonestar2004]
#10518247 - 06/16/09 04:38 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
You don't actually care about real issues, do you? I assume if it doesn't involve a way to criticize Obama, you're not interest?
|
lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.



Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Redstorm]
#10518302 - 06/16/09 04:49 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
i hate the man and i thoroughly enjoy watching the liberals get their panties in such a wad over talking bad about him.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
|
Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Redstorm]
#10518344 - 06/16/09 04:58 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Redstorm said: If Mugabe was out of the picture, I would feel a lot better about this.
Tvsangarai (if I spelled that right is a minor miracle) was just in Washington pushing for the Administration to approve the aid package. Since he is Mugabe's main political opponent and it was his followers that most of the pre- and post-election violence was perpetrated against can you really justify with-holding the aid to make some kind of point against Mugabe's oppression?
I don't think anybody doubts that Mugabe is a bad guy and the person directly responsible for nearly all Zimbabwe's current ills. But as long as the opposition has a strong hand in the government I think you have to see what can be done for the country. If, however, it descends back into a blatant kleptocracy again then I see no reason to fuck around with lining Mugabe's pockets with aid money.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
|
Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 19 days
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Madtowntripper]
#10519950 - 06/16/09 09:50 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
> can you really justify with-holding the aid to make some kind of point against Mugabe's oppression?
Yes. There are starving people at home. If we are going to give away taxpayer money, at least keep it in the country.
Zimbabwe was doing just fine until their government decided to play robin hood with their profitable industries. That same government is still in place and that same government is continuing to take from the successful and give to the ignorant in a failed attempt to "right the wrongs of the past." Screw them. Giving them aid does nothing at all to fix their problem and only makes them dependent upon the US.
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: lonestar2004]
#10520053 - 06/16/09 10:11 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
lonestar2004 said: obama promised it would go to the people. 
so Mugabe isnt people?
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Madtowntripper]
#10520083 - 06/16/09 10:17 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Madtowntripper said:
Quote:
Redstorm said: If Mugabe was out of the picture, I would feel a lot better about this.
Tvsangarai (if I spelled that right is a minor miracle) was just in Washington pushing for the Administration to approve the aid package.
why dont we just lend a few 'military advisors' to zimbabwe instead
|
THC Titan
Spoonman



Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 590
Loc: FL, USA
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Seuss]
#10520216 - 06/16/09 10:49 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Seuss said: > can you really justify with-holding the aid to make some kind of point against Mugabe's oppression?
Yes. There are starving people at home. If we are going to give away taxpayer money, at least keep it in the country.
We could always cut our bloated defense budget by 0.1% and get about ten times the 73 million we're sending to Zimbabwe.
If so many people are starving in America it only seems like the right thing to do.
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: THC Titan]
#10520503 - 06/16/09 11:45 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
we can also cut all foreign aid and do the same
|
THC Titan
Spoonman



Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 590
Loc: FL, USA
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10520586 - 06/16/09 11:57 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Our foreign aid is a drip in the bucket compared to the defense budget, and it isn't supporting nearly as large a military-industrial complex.
Edited by THC Titan (06/16/09 11:57 PM)
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: THC Titan]
#10520771 - 06/17/09 12:22 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
our foreign aid is our tax dollars going to foreign countries so they can spend like paris hilton, the military budget doesnt play into this as it's not foreign aid
|
Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10522058 - 06/17/09 05:46 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
The military budget does play into it.
It's not like the two budgets are drawn from different wells.
It's the same fucking money.
Saying some of it counts and some of it doesn't is stupid.
I, personally, would much rather have my money spent on direct foreign aid to a government rather than through the indirect foreign aid of a military campaign. It's hard for me to fathom how you could say that campaigns like Iraq and Afghanistan aren't "foreign aid". Is not half of our stated reason for being there to free the Iraqi people from tyranny? If necessary by killing them, as zappa is so fond of saying.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
|
Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 19 days
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Madtowntripper]
#10522071 - 06/17/09 05:53 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
> Saying some of it counts and some of it doesn't is stupid.
The military budget is for the benefit of the taxpayers. Handing out money to foreign countries does not benefit the taxpayers. There may be problems with military spending, but the military directly benefits the taxpayer by protecting their country.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
|
Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Seuss]
#10522100 - 06/17/09 06:01 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Seuss said: > Saying some of it counts and some of it doesn't is stupid.
The military budget is for the benefit of the taxpayers. Handing out money to foreign countries does not benefit the taxpayers. There may be problems with military spending, but the military directly benefits the taxpayer by protecting their country.
So you say.
I think it likely that 50% of the population would argue against your inference that the War in Iraq was perpetrated in any way to make us safer. That seems relatively ludicrous.
More plausible, to me, is that the country will book an eventual profit from foreign aid such as this. Opening up new markets is always a positive economic factor in a capitalist society.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
|
Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 19 days
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Madtowntripper]
#10522332 - 06/17/09 07:21 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Why do you keep going back to the Iraq war? Regardless of it being right or wrong does nothing to change the fact that military spending benefits the taxpayer while free handouts to foreign nations do not benefit the taxpayer.
> More plausible, to me, is that the country will book an eventual profit from foreign aid such as this.
Yeah, right... give a beggar money, and they will get a job and pay you back... sure, works like that every time. Zimbabwe was doing just fine with out handouts until they screwed up their country by taking successful businesses and giving them away to people with no business experience in the name of reverse discrimination. I might be a bit less mean spirited if they had learned from their mistakes and were trying to rectify the situation. This is not the case, however. Until they change, let them rot in their own mess. Giving them money does nothing to help and only prolongs their suffering. Giving them taxpayer money, when our own country is in the dump, is stupid. Lets take care of our own messes before worrying about fixing some other countries problems.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
|
Yrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Seuss]
#10522460 - 06/17/09 08:08 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Seuss said: military spending benefits the taxpayer
i would argue that it's quite the opposite.
if there was a rational level of military spending, i would agree with you. however, today's US military budget, which basically equivalent to ALL OTHER COUNTRIES COMBINED, has quite obviously ballooned past reasonable levels. since the taxpayer will be the one to foot the bill, i see no benefit here.
do you believe current military spending is reasonable and required for the average citizen's safety?
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
|
lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.



Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Seuss]
#10522462 - 06/17/09 08:08 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Seuss said: Giving them aid does nothing at all to fix their problem and only makes them dependent upon the US.
right. Has the money we have been giving Africa for many years improved the situations over there?
i would not be surprised if Africa is worse condition now than before we started giving them aid.
WE ARE THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT AND WE ARE HERE TO HELP YOU....
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
|
Yrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: lonestar2004]
#10522487 - 06/17/09 08:14 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
i agree that financial aid can often do more harm than good. rather than allow the society to build a functioning economic system that supports the populace, continuous aid keeps the society dependent on the handouts.
obviously there are exceptions, natural disasters and such, but today's system of "aid" to developing countries is flawed.
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
|
Therian
Stranger

Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 684
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Yrat]
#10530224 - 06/18/09 01:02 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Military aid directly benefits America, I don't see how anyone can argue this point. Were do you think this military industrial complex resides? Who builds, designs, and services the airplanes, tanks, missiles, MRE's, etc. These people then pay taxes on their pay, spend money domestically and purchase goods and services which further help others in this country. How is any money going to Zimbabwe doing any of this? It is just being flushed away.
I think the bigger truth here, which no one ever wants to recognize is that blacks are totally incapable of self rule. You can say what you want about colonialism but at least when it was taking place there was far more stability on the continent. If you want war,corruption, genocide, etc. just oust the white leaders and bring in the blacks. Currently, I believe about 3/4 of the countries on the continent are involved in some sort of civil war/genocide. I don't know what it is but I believe most blacks leaders are incapable of rational thought and corruption in their countries is the rule,not the exception.
Look no further than here in the U.S., just cross reference the cities with the highest rates of murder, rape, robbery, violent assaults, etc.,then look up cities with the greatest proportion of minorities. If you want to see how well blacks are capable of self rule, look no further than Detroit.
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Therian]
#10530441 - 06/18/09 01:46 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Therian said: Military aid directly benefits America, I don't see how anyone can argue this point. Were do you think this military industrial complex resides? Who builds, designs, and services the airplanes, tanks, missiles, MRE's, etc.
we get some of our rockets and missiles from Saab
|
THC Titan
Spoonman



Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 590
Loc: FL, USA
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Therian]
#10531463 - 06/18/09 04:45 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Therian said: Military aid directly benefits America, I don't see how anyone can argue this point. Were do you think this military industrial complex resides? Who builds, designs, and services the airplanes, tanks, missiles, MRE's, etc. These people then pay taxes on their pay, spend money domestically and purchase goods and services which further help others in this country. How is any money going to Zimbabwe doing any of this? It is just being flushed away.
I think the bigger truth here, which no one ever wants to recognize is that blacks are totally incapable of self rule. You can say what you want about colonialism but at least when it was taking place there was far more stability on the continent. If you want war,corruption, genocide, etc. just oust the white leaders and bring in the blacks. Currently, I believe about 3/4 of the countries on the continent are involved in some sort of civil war/genocide. I don't know what it is but I believe most blacks leaders are incapable of rational thought and corruption in their countries is the rule,not the exception.
Look no further than here in the U.S., just cross reference the cities with the highest rates of murder, rape, robbery, violent assaults, etc.,then look up cities with the greatest proportion of minorities. If you want to see how well blacks are capable of self rule, look no further than Detroit.
Holy moly that sounds racist. Are you not aware of the African kingdoms that used to be all over the continent? Black leaders are incapable of rational thought...wow, man.
Can't you think of any economic reasons that a country or region might be prone to recurring conflicts?
And I can only think of about five countries that have some ongoing civil war or violent border disputes happening. Taking into consideration countries that are still in the post-conflict period, there could be like 15 altogether. That's not anywhere close to 75% of all Africa's countries.
For your own sake, read a book, please.
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: THC Titan]
#10531701 - 06/18/09 05:30 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
THC Titan said: And I can only think of about five countries that have some ongoing civil war or violent border disputes happening.
such a limiting factor, no wonder you only see 5, lets include governments killing their own, rebels, the UN, developers, miners and what ever reason these jackasses want to fight for
Dem. Rep. of Congo, Rep. of Congo, Rwandan, Angola, Zimbabwe, Somalia, Sudan, Ethiopia, Kenya, Chad, Central African Republic, Niger, Nigeria, Mali, Libya, Liberia, Sierra Leone, peaceful happy Botswana and I'm sure there's a dozen I'm missing
|
Yrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10531994 - 06/18/09 06:18 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
are you arguing against THC because you support Therian's views?
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
|
THC Titan
Spoonman



Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 590
Loc: FL, USA
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10532012 - 06/18/09 06:21 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
THC Titan said: And I can only think of about five countries that have some ongoing civil war or violent border disputes happening.
such a limiting factor, no wonder you only see 5, lets include governments killing their own, rebels, the UN, developers, miners and what ever reason these jackasses want to fight for
Dem. Rep. of Congo, Rep. of Congo, Rwandan, Angola, Zimbabwe, Somalia, Sudan, Ethiopia, Kenya, Chad, Central African Republic, Niger, Nigeria, Mali, Libya, Liberia, Sierra Leone, peaceful happy Botswana and I'm sure there's a dozen I'm missing
I am in the midst of writing a paper about Africa so five ongoing wars/conflicts were off the top of my head as current events. In my post I allowed ten more that were either forgotten or in a fragile post-conflict state, just to be safe, bringing to total to about 15.
I should point out we are talking about countries "involved in some sort of civil war/genocide", as Therian classified 75% of African countries as participating in. Botswana doesn't count, they're doing good. Mali and Niger are not engaged in major violence, either. Political corruption and small-scale sporadic violence are not included under the label of civil war/genocide.
On one hand, I would have no trouble accepting that three-quarters of African countries suffer from corruption and poor governance, but alleging that 75% of countries are actively fighting in a war or participating in genocide is simply false. I took at as another sign of his racist beliefs that black people couldn't operate a country without stirring up a horde of machete-wielding lunatics.
Hopefully you don't share his belief that black leadership is inherently inept.
As an aside, I was reading about some crazy shit from Mozambique whereby an angry mob places a tire around someone's neck, fills it with petroleum, and sets it on fire. Usually used against people perceived as traitors (or immigrants).
|
Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: THC Titan]
#10532244 - 06/18/09 06:57 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
I heard of the same practice, but in South Africa. That's gotta be a terrible way to die.
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: THC Titan]
#10532338 - 06/18/09 07:17 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
THC Titan said: Hopefully you don't share his belief that black leadership is inherently inept.
no, while I like to play a racist on TV, I dont see white leadership doing any better, seems the only thing keeping the developed nations in check are certain developments in nuclear technology. small localized government works well for africa, there would still be fighting but not on the scale that there is now
you look at african violence too simplisticly, that you're whittling down most of the violence, what o the violence against women and children, sure it's not men with guns against men with guns but I figured men with machetes against unarmed women is still pretty bad, of course they rape them first so it becomes an excusable crime... welcome to Botswana, this of course isnt the only place violence like this occurs, in Nigeria for instance the killing of children is becoming very common, if something bad happens a kid in the family must be a witch, either kill them or exile them from the village, gotta appreciate christianity in africa
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Yrat]
#10532440 - 06/18/09 07:39 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Yrat said: are you arguing against THC because you support Therian's views?
are you suggesting I'm a jock strap for racism?
|
THC Titan
Spoonman



Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 590
Loc: FL, USA
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10532568 - 06/18/09 08:06 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: you look at african violence too simplisticly, that you're whittling down most of the violence, what o the violence against women and children, sure it's not men with guns against men with guns but I figured men with machetes against unarmed women is still pretty bad, of course they rape them first so it becomes an excusable crime...
Quote:
welcome to Botswana, this of course isnt the only place violence like this occurs, in Nigeria for instance the killing of children is becoming very common, if something bad happens a kid in the family must be a witch, either kill them or exile them from the village, gotta appreciate christianity in africa
I think Botswana is the shining example of what African countries should aspire to be.
Nigeria is the counter-example that contains well-publicized examples of political corruption, civil unrest, human rights problems, and social inequality.
Anyway, I still don't think small-scale problems are enough to claim a country is in a state of civil war or genocide. Many poor countries have corrupt police and spotty enforcement over certain areas that leads to soldiers or civilians getting away with rape or other forms of violence. It's a sad truth, but it doesn't qualify as civil war. Their social attitudes about sex and gender are definitely one of the factors holding them back, though:
Over a quarter of men in South Africa, according to a new survey, admit to rape:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8107039.stm
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: THC Titan]
#10534130 - 06/18/09 11:57 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
you keep trying to look at it a specific way, civil war or genocide, those are the extreme end of the violence and overlook the fact that the BDF has been killing the border jumpers trying to cross from zimbabwe... it's not a civil war, it's not genocide, it's not domestic violence or or even rebels but it's still border skirmishes often violence against unarmed people
Botswana has been building a fence along the border allegedly to prevent anthrax but just how many cows can jump a 14 foot fence, how many can jump a 7 foot fence, close the borders, filter the information, kill whomever you want, sure sounds like paradise
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/zimbabwe/2242662/Botswana-troops-mass-on-Zimbabwe-border.html
http://www.scotsman.com/world/Tension-increases-on-Zimbabwe-border.4795584.jp
|
Therian
Stranger

Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 684
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: THC Titan]
#10534513 - 06/19/09 01:16 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
There are more on the list; Cote d'iviore, guinea, Liberia, Nigeria, sierra Leone, Togo, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Somalia, Sudan,Uganda,Burundi, Congo, Rwanda, Algeria, Angola, Zimbabwe, Ghana, Kenya, Botswana, Darfur, Chad, Cameroon, what more do you need. If this were happening in the EU we would call it a world war. Not civil war or genocide? I guess you could argue semantics, but I stated they were completely incompetent, inept, corrupt, violent, ignorant, etc. All of which is true.
I suppose when a group of state sponsored soldiers from one country can cross the border, rape, pillage, murder, set your children on fire, chop of your limbs and lay waste to hundreds at a time, really isn't all that serious as THC states, ironically he then describes how they will set innocents on fire.
Out of 41 black ruled countries in Africa only 7 allow opposition parties in the political process, nah, no corruption there. Of those seven many allow torture,and killing of the opposition. Other times they just stuff the ballot boxes or beat/rape/kill/and intimidate would be voters. When the colonial powers leave all the cities and infrastructure crumbles as these negro's are unwilling, to maintain that which they have. Read about it at http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,921491,00.html
As for negro's in general, here is what the Nobel prize winning geneticist, and co-discoverer of the DNA molecule James Watson had to say about them as he was "inherently gloomy about the prospects of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really." He then went on to say, While he hopes everyone is equal, "people who have to deal with black employees find this is not true," Watson is quoted. He also said people should not be discriminated against on the basis of color, because "there are many people of color who are very talented."
So you tell me if a man with an intelligence in the field of genetics far greater than anyone that will ever visit this website says it is so, who are you to claim you know better. When someone tells you not to go into xyz neighborhood because it is crime ridden and violent, or a "bad" neighborhood, invariably it means it has a high population of minorities. The same goes for cities.
13% of the American population is black 6% of the population is black male 2% of pop. is black male ages 18-45 Roughly 70% of ALL violent crime is committed by this 2%. Blacks commit murder at a rate of 800% higher than that of whites In DC they are 56 times more likely to be arrested than whites.
You can look at the bureau of justices website to get exact stats on the crime rates. Look at the rates of white on black crime, they are nearly non existent, and the rates of rape by white men on black women is 0%, yes you read that correctly. Be wary of the statistics on the website due to the fact hispanics and middle easterners are also considered white for some reason, obviously raising the rates of crime in the white category. For a more detailed race/crime stat look at [url=http://www.vdare.com/Sailer/050213_mapping.htm - Cached]http://www.vdare.com/Sailer/050213_mapping.htm - Cached[/url]
How is it that I am the racist? I am simply stating published statistics, of course by doing so, one must be racist by default. At the university of Michigan's law school there was a lawsuit filed against them by white students. Even though these students had far superior grades, and on the placement exam, as well as prior relevant experience, they were denied admittance to the school. Why? Because they were white. The school gives special points and consideration to minority students, even though they don't score as well as others. They say they do this to encourage diversity. So how is this not racism if a better qualified student is denied access to an education based on his race. So to encourage diversity, one must obviously lower the standard for minorities.
In the news recently firefighters had to take their state to court. Apparently there was a test for the employees. Those that passed were given consideration for a position as captain. Out of the hundreds that took the test only one black passed. So what did the county do? Instead of promoting the most intelligent and qualified, they simply threw out the test as too few minorities passed. So now we are forced to accept and reward ignorance. I hope the MCAT's aren't like this as we would all be dropping like flies because minorities gained admittance to med school simply because they were black. So how should they test to get more minorities as captains of the firehouse?
Maybe they could have a rap battle, or have a free throw competition, or how to commit violent crime at a disproportionate rate clinic. You can call me racist, but tell me one thing I said that isn't true. It would be nice to be black in the respect that no matter what legitimate criticism someone had of you, you always had the race card to fall back on. It couldn't be me, they're racist, or threaten others with a riot, or some other ridiculous negro threat.
|
Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Therian]
#10535008 - 06/19/09 04:13 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
The University of Michigan was sued by one student, Barbara Grutter, who certainly was not qualified for admissions. While she had a 3.8GPA, she only earned a 161 on the LSAT. The median score for accepted UM Law Students is a 169. The 25th percentile on the LSAT for students there is 166.
Read about something before you open your mouth.,
|
Yrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10535284 - 06/19/09 07:30 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Yrat said: are you arguing against THC because you support Therian's views?
are you suggesting I'm a jock strap for racism?
that would depend on your answer to the question.
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
|
lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.



Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: THC Titan]
#10535501 - 06/19/09 08:35 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
THC Titan said:
Over a quarter of men in South Africa, according to a new survey, admit to rape:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8107039.stm
"One in four South African men questioned in a survey said they had raped someone, and nearly half of them admitted more than one attack."
"It said practices such as gang rape were common because they were considered a form of male bonding."
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
|
THC Titan
Spoonman



Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 590
Loc: FL, USA
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Therian]
#10535727 - 06/19/09 09:30 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Therian said: As for negro's in general, here is what the Nobel prize winning geneticist, and co-discoverer of the DNA molecule James Watson had to say about them as he was "inherently gloomy about the prospects of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really." He then went on to say, While he hopes everyone is equal, "people who have to deal with black employees find this is not true," Watson is quoted. He also said people should not be discriminated against on the basis of color, because "there are many people of color who are very talented."
So you tell me if a man with an intelligence in the field of genetics far greater than anyone that will ever visit this website says it is so, who are you to claim you know better. When someone tells you not to go into xyz neighborhood because it is crime ridden and violent, or a "bad" neighborhood, invariably it means it has a high population of minorities. The same goes for cities.
Even Nobel Prize winners have to be held to a higher standard than he "says it's so", otherwise you're making an empty appeal to authority. I think it's dumb for a geneticist to compare intelligence based on standardized tests, which are inherently flawed, and his own anecdotal experience. It's just racism.
Furthermore, I'm getting the impression that you don't know any economic factors that are highly predictive of crime and civil conflict, leading me to believe that your worldview is largely a product of racist prejudices. What a shame, I guess that means this discussion isn't going to go anywhere.
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: THC Titan]
#10535910 - 06/19/09 10:20 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
THC Titan said: I think it's dumb for a geneticist to compare intelligence based on standardized tests, which are inherently flawed
really, are those tests geared towards whites passing and blacks failing?
|
THC Titan
Spoonman



Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 590
Loc: FL, USA
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10536039 - 06/19/09 10:46 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
THC Titan said: I think it's dumb for a geneticist to compare intelligence based on standardized tests, which are inherently flawed
really, are those tests geared towards whites passing and blacks failing?
Not explicitly in terms of black and white, no, but environmental and societal effects, sure.
Maybe in the future we can have ethically corrupt scientific tests that clone a person into two individuals, providing one with a a normal upper-middle-class upbringing and the other with no formal education, poor health services, and no parents to read to him. I feel sure they would score drastically different scores on an IQ test.
IQ testing opens a whole can of worms that we can talk about in another thread, if you want, as it is a topic unto itself.
I'd like to get back to Therian and finding out what he thinks may cause violence besides black people being "incapable of rational thought" since that is a pretty wrong-headed and racist comment.
|
Yrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10536069 - 06/19/09 10:52 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
THC Titan said: I think it's dumb for a geneticist to compare intelligence based on standardized tests, which are inherently flawed
really, are those tests geared towards whites passing and blacks failing?
i am inclined to suggest that such "trends" are a result of less-efficient educational systems in city areas where blacks tend to account for a higher percentage of the population. these unaccounted data can be ignored by those attempting to justify their racist beliefs, who cherry pick and back up their motives by the "facts."
to suggest intelligence has a correlation with skin color is simply disgusting.
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Yrat]
#10536268 - 06/19/09 11:38 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Yrat said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
THC Titan said: I think it's dumb for a geneticist to compare intelligence based on standardized tests, which are inherently flawed
really, are those tests geared towards whites passing and blacks failing?
i am inclined to suggest that such "trends" are a result of less-efficient educational systems in city areas where blacks tend to account for a higher percentage of the population. these unaccounted data can be ignored by those attempting to justify their racist beliefs, who cherry pick and back up their motives by the "facts."
to suggest intelligence has a correlation with skin color is simply disgusting.
so you're saying the standardized testing isnt racially biased but it's a lack of proper education in urban areas with a a higher density of the black population, up to a point I do agree but at what point do we stop blaming the teacher and hold the students that dont want to listen accountable, at what point should we hold the black community accountable when they're 'cherry picking' results to back up their racist beliefs
it's no different than the 'racially biased' drug laws, you know, the ones that land more black offenders in prisons than whites, sure the statistics make it look that way but statistics dont account for the real world where the majority of those blacks convicted are the idiots standing on the side of the road selling crack, that sure makes arrests easy, those statistics also dont account for the repeat offenders that get released and return to selling drugs on street corners
seems the racial bias falls on those with a cause
|
gluke bastid
Stinky Bum



Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10536697 - 06/19/09 12:48 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Yrat said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
THC Titan said: I think it's dumb for a geneticist to compare intelligence based on standardized tests, which are inherently flawed
really, are those tests geared towards whites passing and blacks failing?
i am inclined to suggest that such "trends" are a result of less-efficient educational systems in city areas where blacks tend to account for a higher percentage of the population. these unaccounted data can be ignored by those attempting to justify their racist beliefs, who cherry pick and back up their motives by the "facts."
to suggest intelligence has a correlation with skin color is simply disgusting.
so you're saying the standardized testing isnt racially biased but it's a lack of proper education in urban areas with a a higher density of the black population, up to a point I do agree but at what point do we stop blaming the teacher and hold the students that dont want to listen accountable, at what point should we hold the black community accountable when they're 'cherry picking' results to back up their racist beliefs
At some point you may stop those things, but not when the issue at hand is the suggestion that darker skin has a correlation with lower intelligence. The social and educational disadvantages of both Africans and African Americans are far too considerable to ignore in light of claiming there is a natural inferiority in terms of intelligence.
In other words, this entire post of yours is a straw man argument. If you want to encourage accountability in students, thats fine. But you also have to encourage accountability in the "scientific" research that measures intelligence.
--------------------
Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
|
Yrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10537111 - 06/19/09 01:53 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
there is a large difference between the questions you have raised and insinuating that blacks are predisposed to be of a lesser intelligence than whites due to genetic makeup.
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: gluke bastid]
#10537131 - 06/19/09 01:58 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
gluke bastid said: At some point you may stop those things, but not when the issue at hand is the suggestion that darker skin has a correlation with lower intelligence. The social and educational disadvantages of both Africans and African Americans are far too considerable to ignore in light of claiming there is a natural inferiority in terms of intelligence.
how can white, hispanic or asian students attend the same schools and yet achieve higher scores on these standardized tests, what makes 'black' education inferior to 'white' education or should we keep making excuses for those that dont want to get ahead, as it stands there's far too many successful black people in this country to claim that the system is the problem, in the 1870s I'd have said yes, that's a valid argument but since schools were desegregated what's been stopping blacks from accepting the education they're offered
Quote:
In other words, this entire post of yours is a straw man argument. If you want to encourage accountability in students, thats fine. But you also have to encourage accountability in the "scientific" research that measures intelligence.
is there no accountability in this research, is there evidence that what is taught in the atlanta public school to whites is different from what's taught to blacks, will blacks at a school that's predominantly white score higher on standardized testing than those in schools that are predominantly black
what exactly is your strawman stuffed with
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Yrat]
#10537134 - 06/19/09 02:00 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Yrat said: there is a large difference between the questions you have raised and insinuating that blacks are predisposed to be of a lesser intelligence than whites due to genetic makeup.
is there evidence to prove one way or the other
|
lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.



Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10537206 - 06/19/09 02:09 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: should we keep making excuses for those that dont want to get ahead,
personally i enjoy blaming the Euro trash (colonialism) for all of Africa's problems....
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
|
zouden
Neuroscientist



Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: THC Titan]
#10540157 - 06/19/09 10:51 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
THC Titan said: Maybe in the future we can have ethically corrupt scientific tests that clone a person into two individuals, providing one with a a normal upper-middle-class upbringing and the other with no formal education, poor health services, and no parents to read to him. I feel sure they would score drastically different scores on an IQ test.
Already been done. It's not ethically corrupt if it occurs naturally. Have a look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inheritance_of_intelligence
Extremely brief summary: slightly more than half of your intelligence comes from your genes. The rest is upbringing.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10547380 - 06/21/09 12:46 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Yrat said: there is a large difference between the questions you have raised and insinuating that blacks are predisposed to be of a lesser intelligence than whites due to genetic makeup.
is there evidence to prove one way or the other
here's some compelling evidence
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/19800488/detail.html
|
djmako7
Antitransubstantiationalist



Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 2,362
Loc: A shady spot under a tree
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10549530 - 06/21/09 07:23 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Studies show that IQs are at least 50% genetic
http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/node/7669
|
Yrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10550795 - 06/21/09 10:57 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Yrat said: there is a large difference between the questions you have raised and insinuating that blacks are predisposed to be of a lesser intelligence than whites due to genetic makeup.
is there evidence to prove one way or the other
here's some compelling evidence
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/19800488/detail.html
what exactly is that evidence of, if not you trying to support bigoted beliefs with bullshit?
so some principle got caught altering scores to keep on top of standards, and because he happens to be black this somehow shows blacks are genetically inferior to whites? i guess you assumed they only changed black students' scores as well, huh? i mean, that's the only way your "compelling evidence" can be used for whatever type of argument you are trying to construct.
is this your point? are you actually serious?
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Yrat]
#10551174 - 06/22/09 12:05 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Yrat said: so some principle got caught altering scores to keep on top of standards, and because he happens to be black this somehow shows blacks are genetically inferior to whites? i guess you assumed they only changed black students' scores as well, huh? i mean, that's the only way your "compelling evidence" can be used for whatever type of argument you are trying to construct.
is this your point? are you actually serious?
wow... you certainly hallucinate a lot because you're definitely seeing shit that isnt there, what we have is an example of a couple of educated people, college graduates, a successful man and woman doing something stupid to give the appearance that their apparent laziness is benefiting students as opposed to educating the children, sure it was a dumb thing to do but it in no way should have implied that blacks are inferior or less intelligent
James Berry holds a doctorate BTW, Alexander was the Comprehensive School Improvement Program Facilitator
so why do you choose to perpetuate racism by jumping to some crazy conclusions about what someone else may be thinking
|
zouden
Neuroscientist



Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10551578 - 06/22/09 01:11 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Yrat said: there is a large difference between the questions you have raised and insinuating that blacks are predisposed to be of a lesser intelligence than whites due to genetic makeup.
is there evidence to prove one way or the other
here's some compelling evidence
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/19800488/detail.html
You have an interesting definition of 'compelling'.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
|
Yrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10552258 - 06/22/09 05:24 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Yrat said: so some principle got caught altering scores to keep on top of standards, and because he happens to be black this somehow shows blacks are genetically inferior to whites? i guess you assumed they only changed black students' scores as well, huh? i mean, that's the only way your "compelling evidence" can be used for whatever type of argument you are trying to construct.
is this your point? are you actually serious?
wow... you certainly hallucinate a lot because you're definitely seeing shit that isnt there, what we have is an example of a couple of educated people, college graduates, a successful man and woman doing something stupid to give the appearance that their apparent laziness is benefiting students as opposed to educating the children, sure it was a dumb thing to do but it in no way should have implied that blacks are inferior or less intelligent
James Berry holds a doctorate BTW, Alexander was the Comprehensive School Improvement Program Facilitator
so why do you choose to perpetuate racism by jumping to some crazy conclusions about what someone else may be thinking
my apologies if i inadvertently jumped the gun and didn't realize you switched sides in the argument without explaining it in the four words of your post.
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
Edited by Yrat (06/22/09 05:45 AM)
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Yrat]
#10552554 - 06/22/09 08:13 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
maybe you should read back and show me where I've made any of the claims you're accusing me of, you've called or insinuated a number of times that I'm a racist when all I do is respond in a manner to provoke thought, makes me wonder about your thought processes that continually lead you to these conclusions that everyone is a bigot
|
Yrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10552593 - 06/22/09 08:31 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
lol.
i have continuously stated that any argument that attempts to use genetics as a base for defining non-white races as less intelligent to be absolutely absurd.
you have continuously proposed questions to counter that statement, and that lean to the opposing viewpoint (when do we stop saying it's just laziness and infer it must be inherent nature?), so forgive me if i have incorrectly "assumed" what points you are trying to make.
please feel free to take the opportunity to clear things up and explain the correct intentions behind your thought-provoking questions.
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Yrat]
#10552646 - 06/22/09 08:56 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Yrat said: i have continuously stated that any argument that attempts to use genetics as a base for defining non-white races as less intelligent to be absolutely absurd.
you have continuously proposed questions to counter that statement
no, I didnt claim genetics made blacks dumb, I said that the dumbing down of blacks is in the hands of the individuals, I've claimed that it's contrary to my belief that it's in the hands of the individual, that every person is responsible for taking the education offered, again, show me where I claim it's genetic or in some way inherent to black people
Quote:
when do we stop saying it's just laziness and infer it must be inherent nature?), so forgive me if i have incorrectly "assumed" what points you are trying to make.
but your doing it again in this statement, hell, I was lazy in school, I made poor grades because I didnt do the work, I occupied my time in other ways, are you saying this isnt the way it is with some students and that the only real racists left instead of laying blame where it belongs insists that it's white people 'keeping them down' as you've been implying
|
Yrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10552710 - 06/22/09 09:21 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
i realize you have not directly argued the genetics angle, but perhaps a poor choice of these words:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: up to a point I do agree but...
after statements about the absurdity of correlating intelligence and race has mistakenly thrust you into the wrong light.
my apologies.
but where have i implied that whites are keeping blacks down? i believe we agree very much on the issue of black racism against whites.
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Yrat]
#10552787 - 06/22/09 09:49 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Yrat said: i realize you have not directly argued the genetics angle, but perhaps a poor choice of these words:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: up to a point I do agree but...
perhaps you want to believe something based on conditioning, seems that there's a great deal of information you left out
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: so you're saying the standardized testing isnt racially biased but it's a lack of proper education in urban areas with a a higher density of the black population, up to a point I do agree but at what point do we stop blaming the teacher and hold the students that dont want to listen accountable, at what point should we hold the black community accountable when they're 'cherry picking' results to back up their racist beliefs
Quote:
but where have i implied that whites are keeping blacks down? i believe we agree very much on the issue of black racism against whites.
Quote:
Yrat said: i am inclined to suggest that such "trends" are a result of less-efficient educational systems in city areas where blacks tend to account for a higher percentage of the population. these unaccounted data can be ignored by those attempting to justify their racist beliefs, who cherry pick and back up their motives by the "facts."
to suggest intelligence has a correlation with skin color is simply disgusting.
|
Yrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10552799 - 06/22/09 09:52 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
but there is no mention of race relations in any of that, only of insufficient educational systems. perhaps you are doing a bit of your own conditioned believing.
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Yrat]
#10552853 - 06/22/09 10:08 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Yrat said: but there is no mention of race relations in any of that, only of insufficient educational systems. perhaps you are doing a bit of your own conditioned believing.
so the statement suggests that a few black educators are responsible for the majority of blacks failing and those same black educators are responsible for the successes in education for the white children?
I'm having a hard time believing that this is what you're implying unless of course you plan on letting us all in on this 'black' agenda to continue to perpetuate ignorance in blacks
|
Yrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10552893 - 06/22/09 10:22 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
no, i have suggested none of that. have we gotten far enough off topic yet?
i have implied nothing except that i believe inner city educational systems to be less efficient, whether run by black, white, purple, or martian principals, it doesn't matter.
the statement suggests nothing that you have assumed it to.
it merely states that educational systems within inner city areas likely tend to be less efficient (notice there is no indication of whether whites of blacks are running the schools here, yet you assume blacks) and therefore the populations attending these institutions are likely to receive less-than-average educations. since these areas tend to have high population densities of minority groups, any resulting statistics drawn from these areas MAY show such groups with lower scores. i then go on to presume people with malicious intent could use such statistics to back up their bigoted beliefs.
there is absolutely no "whitey keeping the black man down" in there, is there?
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Yrat]
#10552934 - 06/22/09 10:38 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
it's easy to draw the conclusion based on current events, the outspoken portion of the black community referring to 'white education' all the while pushing for things like black history month, african american studies, 'traditionally' black universities like Spellman and Morehouse among many others
http://www.springerlink.com/content/tq0gecf5wcmu16g5/ " Black Educators Must Change "White" Education "
|
Yrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10552951 - 06/22/09 10:43 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
so basically you're saying you made a giant leap of assumption from my original post
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Yrat]
#10553031 - 06/22/09 11:06 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
actually it's based on several posts where you've decided to imply that several people were racists based on different beliefs even though it appears that science backs the claims they've made
|
Yrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10553032 - 06/22/09 11:08 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
and what scientific backing would that be? the only science in this thread is that 50% of ones intelligence comes from hereditary factors. again, no race involved, although you are trying to inject it.
by the way, that quote in your sig has been proven to be a complete lie. google it.
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
|
jackgriffin
Fringe Dweller


Registered: 06/16/09
Posts: 16
Loc: Michigan
|
Obama to give 73 million dollars OF YOUR MONEY to Zimbabwe? [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10553075 - 06/22/09 11:17 AM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Oh great... here i am in Flint, Michigan, the single most depressed city in America, and for the longest consecuitive time to boot, and where gasoline is strangely enough more costly here than anywhere else in Michigan, and i hear that moron who most of you people put into office is giving Zimbabwe almost one-hundred-million dollars? Rest assured that the bill will say one thing and the actual cost to you taxpayers will be quite another.
--------------------
Know your rights; work for change; help each other.
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Yrat]
#10554262 - 06/22/09 03:16 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Yrat said: and what scientific backing would that be? the only science in this thread is that 50% of ones intelligence comes from hereditary factors. again, no race involved, although you are trying to inject it.
isnt ones race genetic, it certainly isnt based on citizenship
|
Yrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10555100 - 06/22/09 05:40 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
race is genetic, 50% of intelligence is genetic, but unless you want to somehow argue that there is a link between intelligence and how much melanin is produced in one's skin, you don't have any support for a correlation between the two. suggesting they must be related because they both deal with the genome is laughable.
-------------------- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -Henry David Thoreau Strike The Root
|
Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
|
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Yrat]
#10555313 - 06/22/09 06:18 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Yrat said: race is genetic, 50% of intelligence is genetic, but unless you want to somehow argue that there is a link between intelligence and how much melanin is produced in one's skin, you don't have any support for a correlation between the two. suggesting they must be related because they both deal with the genome is laughable.
that would be absurd, that would make albinos the most intelligent people on the planet, of course it wasnt albinos that ran the farmers out of zimbabwe, wasnt white folks either, an act that left the countries economy in ruin and has a millions of people starving
it's not the whites that have to enter grad schools under affirmative action because they consistently score lower and these standardized tests with an ever widening gap http://www.jbhe.com/news_views/51_graduate_admissions_test.html
seems political correctness has another casualty in the arena of science but hey... it's laughable, right, doesnt matter what the evidence says, it must be racist
http://www.halfsigma.com/2006/06/blacks_genetica.html http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2677098.ece?token=null&offset=0
|
|