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OfflineYrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10536069 - 06/19/09 10:52 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

THC Titan said:
I think it's dumb for a geneticist to compare intelligence based on standardized tests, which are inherently flawed





really, are those tests geared towards whites passing and blacks failing?





i am inclined to suggest that such "trends" are a result of less-efficient educational systems in city areas where blacks tend to account for a higher percentage of the population.  these unaccounted  data can be ignored by those attempting to justify their racist beliefs, who cherry pick and back up their motives by the "facts."


to suggest intelligence has a correlation with skin color is simply disgusting.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Yrat]
    #10536268 - 06/19/09 11:38 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

THC Titan said:
I think it's dumb for a geneticist to compare intelligence based on standardized tests, which are inherently flawed





really, are those tests geared towards whites passing and blacks failing?





i am inclined to suggest that such "trends" are a result of less-efficient educational systems in city areas where blacks tend to account for a higher percentage of the population.  these unaccounted  data can be ignored by those attempting to justify their racist beliefs, who cherry pick and back up their motives by the "facts."


to suggest intelligence has a correlation with skin color is simply disgusting.




so you're saying the standardized testing isnt racially biased
but it's a lack of proper education in urban areas with a a
higher density of the black population, up to a point I do agree
but at what point do we stop blaming the teacher and hold the
students that dont want to listen accountable, at what point
should we hold the black community accountable when they're
'cherry picking' results to back up their racist beliefs

it's no different than the 'racially biased' drug laws, you
know, the ones that land more black offenders in prisons than
whites, sure the statistics make it look that way but statistics
dont account for the real world where the majority of those
blacks convicted are the idiots standing on the side of the road
selling crack, that sure makes arrests easy, those statistics
also dont account for the repeat offenders that get released and
return to selling drugs on street corners

seems the racial bias falls on those with a cause


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10536697 - 06/19/09 12:48 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Yrat said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

THC Titan said:
I think it's dumb for a geneticist to compare intelligence based on standardized tests, which are inherently flawed





really, are those tests geared towards whites passing and blacks failing?





i am inclined to suggest that such "trends" are a result of less-efficient educational systems in city areas where blacks tend to account for a higher percentage of the population.  these unaccounted  data can be ignored by those attempting to justify their racist beliefs, who cherry pick and back up their motives by the "facts."


to suggest intelligence has a correlation with skin color is simply disgusting.




so you're saying the standardized testing isnt racially biased
but it's a lack of proper education in urban areas with a a
higher density of the black population, up to a point I do agree
but at what point do we stop blaming the teacher and hold the
students that dont want to listen accountable, at what point
should we hold the black community accountable when they're
'cherry picking' results to back up their racist beliefs





At some point you may stop those things, but not when the issue at hand is the suggestion that darker skin has a correlation with lower intelligence. The social and educational disadvantages of both Africans and African Americans are far too considerable to ignore in light of claiming there is a natural inferiority in terms of intelligence.

In other words, this entire post of yours is a straw man argument. If you want to encourage accountability in students, thats fine. But you also have to encourage accountability in the "scientific" research that measures intelligence.


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine


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OfflineYrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10537111 - 06/19/09 01:53 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

there is a large difference between the questions you have raised and insinuating that blacks are predisposed to be of a lesser intelligence than whites due to genetic makeup.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Posts: 193,665
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: gluke bastid]
    #10537131 - 06/19/09 01:58 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

gluke bastid said:
At some point you may stop those things, but not when the issue at hand is the suggestion that darker skin has a correlation with lower intelligence. The social and educational disadvantages of both Africans and African Americans are far too considerable to ignore in light of claiming there is a natural inferiority in terms of intelligence.




how can white, hispanic or asian students attend the same
schools and yet achieve higher scores on these standardized
tests, what makes 'black' education inferior to 'white'
education or should we keep making excuses for those that dont
want to get ahead, as it stands there's far too many successful
black people in this country to claim that the system is the
problem, in the 1870s I'd have said yes, that's a valid argument
but since schools were desegregated what's been stopping blacks
from accepting the education they're offered

Quote:

In other words, this entire post of yours is a straw man argument. If you want to encourage accountability in students, thats fine. But you also have to encourage accountability in the "scientific" research that measures intelligence.




is there no accountability in this research, is there evidence
that what is taught in the atlanta public school to whites is
different from what's taught to blacks, will blacks at a school
that's predominantly white score higher on standardized testing
than those in schools that are predominantly black

what exactly is your strawman stuffed with


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Yrat]
    #10537134 - 06/19/09 02:00 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
there is a large difference between the questions you have raised and insinuating that blacks are predisposed to be of a lesser intelligence than whites due to genetic makeup.




is there evidence to prove one way or the other


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10537206 - 06/19/09 02:09 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
should we keep making excuses for those that dont want to get ahead,




personally i enjoy blaming the Euro trash (colonialism) for all of Africa's problems....:smirk:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Offlinezouden
Neuroscientist
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Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: THC Titan]
    #10540157 - 06/19/09 10:51 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

THC Titan said:
Maybe in the future we can have ethically corrupt scientific tests that clone a person into two individuals, providing one with a a normal upper-middle-class upbringing and the other with no formal education, poor health services, and no parents to read to him. I feel sure they would score drastically different scores on an IQ test.




Already been done. It's not ethically corrupt if it occurs naturally. Have a look at this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inheritance_of_intelligence

Extremely brief summary: slightly more than half of your intelligence comes from your genes. The rest is upbringing.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10547380 - 06/21/09 12:46 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Yrat said:
there is a large difference between the questions you have raised and insinuating that blacks are predisposed to be of a lesser intelligence than whites due to genetic makeup.




is there evidence to prove one way or the other





here's some compelling evidence

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/19800488/detail.html


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Invisibledjmako7
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Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 2,362
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10549530 - 06/21/09 07:23 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Studies show that IQs are at least 50% genetic

http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/node/7669


--------------------




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OfflineYrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10550795 - 06/21/09 10:57 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Yrat said:
there is a large difference between the questions you have raised and insinuating that blacks are predisposed to be of a lesser intelligence than whites due to genetic makeup.




is there evidence to prove one way or the other





here's some compelling evidence

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/19800488/detail.html






what exactly is that evidence of, if not you trying to support bigoted beliefs with bullshit?


so some principle got caught altering scores to keep on top of standards, and because he happens to be black this somehow shows blacks are genetically inferior to whites?  i guess you assumed they only changed black students' scores as well, huh?  i mean, that's the only way your "compelling evidence" can be used for whatever type of argument you are trying to construct.

is this your point?  are you actually serious?


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Posts: 193,665
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Yrat]
    #10551174 - 06/22/09 12:05 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
so some principle got caught altering scores to keep on top of standards, and because he happens to be black this somehow shows blacks are genetically inferior to whites?  i guess you assumed they only changed black students' scores as well, huh?  i mean, that's the only way your "compelling evidence" can be used for whatever type of argument you are trying to construct.

is this your point?  are you actually serious?




wow... you certainly hallucinate a lot because you're definitely
seeing shit that isnt there, what we have is an example of a
couple of educated people, college graduates, a successful man
and woman doing something stupid to give the appearance that
their apparent laziness is benefiting students as opposed to
educating the children, sure it was a dumb thing to do but it in
no way should have implied that blacks are inferior or less intelligent

James Berry holds a doctorate BTW, Alexander was the
Comprehensive School Improvement Program Facilitator

so why do you choose to perpetuate racism by jumping to some
crazy conclusions about what someone else may be thinking


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Offlinezouden
Neuroscientist
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Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 7,091
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10551578 - 06/22/09 01:11 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Yrat said:
there is a large difference between the questions you have raised and insinuating that blacks are predisposed to be of a lesser intelligence than whites due to genetic makeup.




is there evidence to prove one way or the other





here's some compelling evidence

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/19800488/detail.html




You have an interesting definition of 'compelling'.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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OfflineYrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10552258 - 06/22/09 05:24 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Yrat said:
so some principle got caught altering scores to keep on top of standards, and because he happens to be black this somehow shows blacks are genetically inferior to whites?  i guess you assumed they only changed black students' scores as well, huh?  i mean, that's the only way your "compelling evidence" can be used for whatever type of argument you are trying to construct.

is this your point?  are you actually serious?




wow... you certainly hallucinate a lot because you're definitely
seeing shit that isnt there, what we have is an example of a
couple of educated people, college graduates, a successful man
and woman doing something stupid to give the appearance that
their apparent laziness is benefiting students as opposed to
educating the children, sure it was a dumb thing to do but it in
no way should have implied that blacks are inferior or less intelligent

James Berry holds a doctorate BTW, Alexander was the
Comprehensive School Improvement Program Facilitator

so why do you choose to perpetuate racism by jumping to some
crazy conclusions about what someone else may be thinking






my apologies if i inadvertently jumped the gun and didn't realize you switched sides in the argument without explaining it in the four words of your post.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


Edited by Yrat (06/22/09 05:45 AM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Yrat]
    #10552554 - 06/22/09 08:13 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

maybe you should read back and show me where I've made any of the
claims you're accusing me of, you've called or insinuated a number
of times that I'm a racist when all I do is respond in a manner to
provoke thought, makes me wonder about your thought processes that
continually lead you to these conclusions that everyone is a bigot


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OfflineYrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10552593 - 06/22/09 08:31 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

lol.


i have continuously stated that any argument that attempts to use genetics as a base for defining non-white races as less intelligent to be absolutely absurd. 

you have continuously proposed questions to counter that statement, and that lean to the opposing viewpoint (when do we stop saying it's just laziness and infer it must be inherent nature?), so forgive me if i have incorrectly "assumed" what points you are trying to make.

please feel free to take the opportunity to clear things up and explain the correct intentions behind your thought-provoking questions.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Yrat]
    #10552646 - 06/22/09 08:56 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
i have continuously stated that any argument that attempts to use genetics as a base for defining non-white races as less intelligent to be absolutely absurd. 

you have continuously proposed questions to counter that statement




no, I didnt claim genetics made blacks dumb, I said that the
dumbing down of blacks is in the hands of the individuals, I've
claimed that it's contrary to my belief that it's in the hands
of the individual, that every person is responsible for taking
the education offered, again, show me where I claim it's genetic
or in some way inherent to black people


Quote:

when do we stop saying it's just laziness and infer it must be inherent nature?), so forgive me if i have incorrectly "assumed" what points you are trying to make.




but your doing it again in this statement, hell, I was lazy in
school, I made poor grades because I didnt do the work, I
occupied my time in other ways, are you saying this isnt the way
it is with some students and that the only real racists left
instead of laying blame where it belongs insists that it's white
people 'keeping them down' as you've been implying


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OfflineYrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10552710 - 06/22/09 09:21 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

i realize you have not directly argued the genetics angle, but perhaps a poor choice of these words:

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
up to a point I do agree but...




after statements about the absurdity of correlating intelligence and race has mistakenly thrust you into the wrong light.

my apologies.


but where have i implied that whites are keeping blacks down?  i believe we agree very much on the issue of black racism against whites. 


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Yrat]
    #10552787 - 06/22/09 09:49 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
i realize you have not directly argued the genetics angle, but perhaps a poor choice of these words:

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
up to a point I do agree but...








perhaps you want to believe something based on conditioning,
seems that there's a great deal of information you left out


Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
so you're saying the standardized testing isnt racially biased
but it's a lack of proper education in urban areas with a a
higher density of the black population, up to a point I do agree
but at what point do we stop blaming the teacher and hold the
students that dont want to listen accountable, at what point
should we hold the black community accountable when they're
'cherry picking' results to back up their racist beliefs






Quote:

but where have i implied that whites are keeping blacks down?  i believe we agree very much on the issue of black racism against whites. 





Quote:

Yrat said:
i am inclined to suggest that such "trends" are a result of less-efficient educational systems in city areas where blacks tend to account for a higher percentage of the population.  these unaccounted  data can be ignored by those attempting to justify their racist beliefs, who cherry pick and back up their motives by the "facts."


to suggest intelligence has a correlation with skin color is simply disgusting.




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OfflineYrat
Hello

Registered: 11/08/07
Posts: 2,312
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10552799 - 06/22/09 09:52 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

but there is no mention of race relations in any of that, only of insufficient educational systems.  perhaps you are doing a bit of your own conditioned believing.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


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