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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Seuss]
    #10522462 - 06/17/09 08:08 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
  Giving them aid does nothing at all to fix their problem and only makes them dependent upon the US.




right. Has the money we have been giving Africa for many years improved the situations over there?

i would not be surprised if Africa is worse condition now than before we started giving them aid.


WE ARE THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT AND WE ARE HERE TO HELP YOU....:eek:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10522487 - 06/17/09 08:14 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

i agree that financial aid can often do more harm than good.  rather than allow the society to build a functioning economic system that supports the populace, continuous aid keeps the society dependent on the handouts. 

obviously there are exceptions, natural disasters and such, but today's system of "aid" to developing countries is flawed.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


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InvisibleTherian
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Yrat]
    #10530224 - 06/18/09 01:02 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Military aid directly benefits America, I don't see how anyone can argue this point. Were do you think this military industrial complex resides? Who builds, designs, and services the airplanes, tanks, missiles, MRE's, etc. These people then pay taxes on their pay, spend money domestically and purchase goods and services which further help others in this country. How is any money going to Zimbabwe doing any of this? It is just being flushed away.

I think the bigger truth here, which no one ever wants to recognize is that blacks are totally incapable of self rule.  You can say what you want about colonialism but at least when it was taking place there was far more stability on the continent.  If you want war,corruption, genocide, etc. just oust the white leaders and bring in the blacks. Currently, I believe about 3/4 of the countries on the continent are involved in some sort of civil war/genocide.  I don't know what it is but I believe most blacks leaders are incapable of rational thought and corruption in their countries is the rule,not the exception.

Look no further than here in the U.S., just cross reference the cities with the highest rates of murder, rape, robbery, violent assaults, etc.,then look up cities with the greatest proportion of minorities. If you want to see how well blacks are capable of self rule, look no further than Detroit.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Therian]
    #10530441 - 06/18/09 01:46 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Therian said:
Military aid directly benefits America, I don't see how anyone can argue this point. Were do you think this military industrial complex resides? Who builds, designs, and services the airplanes, tanks, missiles, MRE's, etc.





we get some of our rockets and missiles from Saab



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OfflineTHC Titan
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Therian]
    #10531463 - 06/18/09 04:45 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Therian said:
Military aid directly benefits America, I don't see how anyone can argue this point. Were do you think this military industrial complex resides? Who builds, designs, and services the airplanes, tanks, missiles, MRE's, etc. These people then pay taxes on their pay, spend money domestically and purchase goods and services which further help others in this country. How is any money going to Zimbabwe doing any of this? It is just being flushed away.

I think the bigger truth here, which no one ever wants to recognize is that blacks are totally incapable of self rule.  You can say what you want about colonialism but at least when it was taking place there was far more stability on the continent.  If you want war,corruption, genocide, etc. just oust the white leaders and bring in the blacks. Currently, I believe about 3/4 of the countries on the continent are involved in some sort of civil war/genocide.  I don't know what it is but I believe most blacks leaders are incapable of rational thought and corruption in their countries is the rule,not the exception.

Look no further than here in the U.S., just cross reference the cities with the highest rates of murder, rape, robbery, violent assaults, etc.,then look up cities with the greatest proportion of minorities. If you want to see how well blacks are capable of self rule, look no further than Detroit.




Holy moly that sounds racist. Are you not aware of the African kingdoms that used to be all over the continent? Black leaders are incapable of rational thought...wow, man.

Can't you think of any economic reasons that a country or region might be prone to recurring conflicts?

And I can only think of about five countries that have some ongoing civil war or violent border disputes happening. Taking into consideration countries that are still in the post-conflict period, there could be like 15 altogether. That's not anywhere close to 75% of all Africa's countries.

For your own sake, read a book, please.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: THC Titan]
    #10531701 - 06/18/09 05:30 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

THC Titan said:
And I can only think of about five countries that have some ongoing civil war or violent border disputes happening.





such a limiting factor, no wonder you only see 5, lets include
governments killing their own, rebels, the UN, developers,
miners and what ever reason these jackasses want to fight for

Dem. Rep. of Congo, Rep. of Congo, Rwandan, Angola, Zimbabwe,
Somalia, Sudan, Ethiopia, Kenya, Chad, Central African Republic,
Niger, Nigeria, Mali, Libya, Liberia, Sierra Leone, peaceful
happy Botswana and I'm sure there's a dozen I'm missing


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10531994 - 06/18/09 06:18 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

are you arguing against THC because you support Therian's views?


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


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OfflineTHC Titan
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10532012 - 06/18/09 06:21 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

THC Titan said:
And I can only think of about five countries that have some ongoing civil war or violent border disputes happening.





such a limiting factor, no wonder you only see 5, lets include
governments killing their own, rebels, the UN, developers,
miners and what ever reason these jackasses want to fight for

Dem. Rep. of Congo, Rep. of Congo, Rwandan, Angola, Zimbabwe,
Somalia, Sudan, Ethiopia, Kenya, Chad, Central African Republic,
Niger, Nigeria, Mali, Libya, Liberia, Sierra Leone, peaceful
happy Botswana and I'm sure there's a dozen I'm missing




I am in the midst of writing a paper about Africa so five ongoing wars/conflicts were off the top of my head as current events. In my post I allowed ten more that were either forgotten or in a fragile post-conflict state, just to be safe, bringing to total to about 15.

I should point out we are talking about countries "involved in some sort of civil war/genocide", as Therian classified 75% of African countries as participating in. Botswana doesn't count, they're doing good. Mali and Niger are not engaged in major violence, either. Political corruption and small-scale sporadic violence are not included under the label of civil war/genocide.

On one hand, I would have no trouble accepting that three-quarters of African countries suffer from corruption and poor governance, but alleging that 75% of countries are actively fighting in a war or participating in genocide is simply false. I took at as another sign of his racist beliefs that black people couldn't operate a country without stirring up a horde of machete-wielding lunatics.

Hopefully you don't share his belief that black leadership is inherently inept.

As an aside, I was reading about some crazy shit from Mozambique whereby an angry mob places a tire around someone's neck, fills it with petroleum, and sets it on fire. Usually used against people perceived as traitors (or immigrants).


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: THC Titan]
    #10532244 - 06/18/09 06:57 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

I heard of the same practice, but in South Africa.  That's gotta be a terrible way to die.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: THC Titan]
    #10532338 - 06/18/09 07:17 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

THC Titan said:
Hopefully you don't share his belief that black leadership is inherently inept.





no, while I like to play a racist on TV, I dont see white
leadership doing any better, seems the only thing keeping the
developed nations in check are certain developments in nuclear
technology. small localized government works well for africa,
there would still be fighting but not on the scale that there is now

you look at african violence too simplisticly, that you're
whittling down most of the violence, what o the violence against
women and children, sure it's not men with guns against men with
guns but I figured men with machetes against unarmed women is
still pretty bad, of course they rape them first so it becomes
an excusable crime... welcome to Botswana, this of course isnt
the only place violence like this occurs, in Nigeria for
instance the killing of children is becoming very common, if
something bad happens a kid in the family must be a witch,
either kill them or exile them from the village, gotta
appreciate christianity in africa


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Yrat]
    #10532440 - 06/18/09 07:39 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
are you arguing against THC because you support Therian's views?





are you suggesting I'm a jock strap for racism?


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OfflineTHC Titan
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10532568 - 06/18/09 08:06 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
you look at african violence too simplisticly, that you're
whittling down most of the violence, what o the violence against
women and children, sure it's not men with guns against men with
guns but I figured men with machetes against unarmed women is
still pretty bad, of course they rape them first so it becomes
an excusable crime...




Quote:

welcome to Botswana, this of course isnt
the only place violence like this occurs, in Nigeria for
instance the killing of children is becoming very common, if
something bad happens a kid in the family must be a witch,
either kill them or exile them from the village, gotta
appreciate christianity in africa




I think Botswana is the shining example of what African countries should aspire to be.

Nigeria is the counter-example that contains well-publicized examples of political corruption, civil unrest, human rights problems, and social inequality.

Anyway, I still don't think small-scale problems are enough to claim a country is in a state of civil war or genocide. Many poor countries have corrupt police and spotty enforcement over certain areas that leads to soldiers or civilians getting away with rape or other forms of violence. It's a sad truth, but it doesn't qualify as civil war. Their social attitudes about sex and gender are definitely one of the factors holding them back, though:

Over a quarter of men in South Africa, according to a new survey, admit to rape:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8107039.stm


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: THC Titan]
    #10534130 - 06/18/09 11:57 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

you keep trying to look at it a specific way, civil war or
genocide, those are the extreme end of the violence and overlook
the fact that the BDF has been killing the border jumpers trying
to cross from zimbabwe... it's not a civil war, it's not genocide,
it's not domestic violence or or even rebels but it's still border
skirmishes often violence against unarmed people

Botswana has been building a fence along the border allegedly to
prevent anthrax but just how many cows can jump a 14 foot fence,
how many can jump a 7 foot fence, close the borders, filter the
information, kill whomever you want, sure sounds like paradise


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/zimbabwe/2242662/Botswana-troops-mass-on-Zimbabwe-border.html

http://www.scotsman.com/world/Tension-increases-on-Zimbabwe-border.4795584.jp


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InvisibleTherian
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: THC Titan]
    #10534513 - 06/19/09 01:16 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

There are more on the list; Cote d'iviore, guinea, Liberia, Nigeria, sierra Leone, Togo, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Somalia, Sudan,Uganda,Burundi, Congo, Rwanda, Algeria, Angola, Zimbabwe, Ghana, Kenya, Botswana, Darfur, Chad, Cameroon, what more do you need. If this were happening in the EU we would call it a world war.  Not civil war or genocide? I guess you could argue semantics, but I stated they were completely incompetent, inept, corrupt, violent, ignorant, etc. All of which is true.

I suppose when a group of state sponsored soldiers from one country can cross the border, rape, pillage, murder, set your children on fire, chop of your limbs and lay waste to hundreds at a time, really isn't all that serious as THC states, ironically he then describes how they will set innocents on fire.

Out of 41 black ruled countries in Africa only 7 allow opposition parties in the political process, nah, no corruption there. Of those seven many allow torture,and killing of the opposition. Other times they just stuff the ballot boxes or beat/rape/kill/and intimidate would be voters. When the colonial powers leave all the cities and infrastructure crumbles as these negro's are unwilling, to maintain that which they have. Read about it at http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,921491,00.html

As for negro's in general, here is what the Nobel prize winning geneticist, and co-discoverer of the DNA molecule James Watson had to say about them as he was "inherently gloomy about the prospects of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really."

He then went on to say, While he hopes everyone is equal, "people who have to deal with black employees find this is not true," Watson is quoted. He also said people should not be discriminated against on the basis of color, because "there are many people of color who are very talented."

So you tell me if a man with an intelligence in the field of genetics far greater than anyone that will ever visit this website says it is so, who are you to claim you know better. When someone tells you not to go into xyz neighborhood because it is crime ridden and violent, or a "bad" neighborhood, invariably it means it has a high population of minorities. The same goes for cities.

13% of the American population is black
6% of the population is black male
2% of pop. is black male ages 18-45
Roughly 70% of ALL violent crime is committed by this 2%.
Blacks commit murder at a rate of 800% higher than that of whites
In DC they are 56 times more likely to be arrested than whites.

You can look at the bureau of justices website to get exact stats on the crime rates. Look at the rates of white on black crime, they are nearly non existent, and the rates of rape by white men on black women is 0%, yes you read that correctly. Be wary of the statistics on the website due to the fact hispanics and middle easterners are also considered white for some reason, obviously raising the rates of crime in the white category. For a more detailed race/crime stat look at [url=http://www.vdare.com/Sailer/050213_mapping.htm - Cached]http://www.vdare.com/Sailer/050213_mapping.htm - Cached[/url]

How is it that I am the racist? I am simply stating published statistics, of course by doing so, one must be racist by default.
At the university of Michigan's law school there was a lawsuit filed against them by white students. Even though these students had far superior grades, and on the placement exam, as well as prior relevant experience, they were denied admittance to the school. Why? Because they were white. The school gives special points and consideration to minority students, even though they don't score as well as others. They say they do this to encourage diversity. So how is this not racism if a better qualified student is denied access to an education based on his race. So to encourage diversity, one must obviously lower the standard for minorities.

In the news recently firefighters had to take their state to court. Apparently there was a test for the employees. Those that passed were given consideration for a position as captain. Out of the hundreds that took the test only one black passed. So what did the county do? Instead of promoting the most intelligent and qualified, they simply threw out the test as too few minorities passed. So now we are forced to accept and reward ignorance. I hope the MCAT's aren't like this as we would all be dropping like flies because minorities gained admittance to med school simply because they were black. So how should they test to get more minorities as captains of the firehouse?

Maybe they could have a rap battle, or have a free throw competition, or how to commit violent crime at a disproportionate rate clinic. You can call me racist, but tell me one thing I said that isn't true. It would be nice to be black in the respect that no matter what legitimate criticism someone had of you, you always had the race card to fall back on. It couldn't be me, they're racist, or threaten others with a riot, or some other ridiculous negro threat.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Therian]
    #10535008 - 06/19/09 04:13 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

The University of Michigan was sued by one student, Barbara Grutter, who certainly was not qualified for admissions.  While she had a 3.8GPA, she only earned a 161 on the LSAT.  The median score for accepted UM Law Students is a 169.  The 25th percentile on the LSAT for students there is 166.

Read about something before you open your mouth.,


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10535284 - 06/19/09 07:30 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Yrat said:
are you arguing against THC because you support Therian's views?





are you suggesting I'm a jock strap for racism?




that would depend on your answer to the question.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: THC Titan]
    #10535501 - 06/19/09 08:35 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

THC Titan said:


Over a quarter of men in South Africa, according to a new survey, admit to rape:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8107039.stm






"One in four South African men questioned in a survey said they had raped someone, and nearly half of them admitted more than one attack."

"It said practices such as gang rape were common because they were considered a form of male bonding."

:sad:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineTHC Titan
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Therian]
    #10535727 - 06/19/09 09:30 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Therian said:
As for negro's in general, here is what the Nobel prize winning geneticist, and co-discoverer of the DNA molecule James Watson had to say about them as he was "inherently gloomy about the prospects of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really."

He then went on to say, While he hopes everyone is equal, "people who have to deal with black employees find this is not true," Watson is quoted. He also said people should not be discriminated against on the basis of color, because "there are many people of color who are very talented."

So you tell me if a man with an intelligence in the field of genetics far greater than anyone that will ever visit this website says it is so, who are you to claim you know better. When someone tells you not to go into xyz neighborhood because it is crime ridden and violent, or a "bad" neighborhood, invariably it means it has a high population of minorities. The same goes for cities.




Even Nobel Prize winners have to be held to a higher standard than he "says it's so", otherwise you're making an empty appeal to authority. I think it's dumb for a geneticist to compare intelligence based on standardized tests, which are inherently flawed, and his own anecdotal experience. It's just racism.

Furthermore, I'm getting the impression that you don't know any economic factors that are highly predictive of crime and civil conflict, leading me to believe that your worldview is largely a product of racist prejudices. What a shame, I guess that means this discussion isn't going to go anywhere.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: THC Titan]
    #10535910 - 06/19/09 10:20 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

THC Titan said:
I think it's dumb for a geneticist to compare intelligence based on standardized tests, which are inherently flawed





really, are those tests geared towards whites passing and blacks failing?


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OfflineTHC Titan
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10536039 - 06/19/09 10:46 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

THC Titan said:
I think it's dumb for a geneticist to compare intelligence based on standardized tests, which are inherently flawed





really, are those tests geared towards whites passing and blacks failing?




Not explicitly in terms of black and white, no, but environmental and societal effects, sure.

Maybe in the future we can have ethically corrupt scientific tests that clone a person into two individuals, providing one with a a normal upper-middle-class upbringing and the other with no formal education, poor health services, and no parents to read to him. I feel sure they would score drastically different scores on an IQ test.

IQ testing opens a whole can of worms that we can talk about in another thread, if you want, as it is a topic unto itself.

I'd like to get back to Therian and finding out what he thinks may cause violence besides black people being "incapable of rational thought" since that is a pretty wrong-headed and racist comment.


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