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Offlinelonestar2004
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Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe
    #10517132 - 06/16/09 01:49 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

JOHANNESBURG – United States (US) President Barack Obama on Friday promised Prime Minister Morgan Tsangira US$73 million humanitarian assistance, underlining that the money would not be chanelled through the cash-strapped Zimbabwean government.

‘‘I have committed US$73 million in assistance to Zimbabwe . . . (the aid) will not be going to the government directly because we continue to be concerned about consolidating democracy, human rights and rule of law, but it will be going directly to the people in Zimbabwe," said Obama in a statement after meeting Tsvangirai.

The money that the US said would go toward fighting HIV/AIDS and promoting good governance in the southern African nation will be channelled through aid agencies.

The Zimbabwean Premier who formed a unity government with President Robert Mugabe in February was in Washington, part of a three-week trip to America and Europe to try to drum up financial support for the power-sharing government.

Western nations who have long isolated Zimbabwe, accusing Mugabe of trampling on democracy and ruining a once-vibrant economy, are withholding direct financial support to the Harare administration unconvinced Mugabe is genuinely committed to democratic change or to sharing power with his former opposition foes.

"We now have a power-sharing agreement that shows promise," Obama said, with Tsvangirai sitting next to him in the Oval Office and praised the Zimbabwean Premier’s efforts to tackle hyperinflation that has devastated the economy and to improve the daily lives of Zimbabweans who face chronic food shortages and an unemployment rate of over 90 percent.

Obama, who in March extended sanctions against Mugabe and his ZANU PF party functionaries, said that the US was prepared to work with Tsvangirai but would not give money directly to the unity government because of concerns about governance.

"President Mugabe has not acted in the best interests of the Zimbabwean people and has been resistant to the kinds of democratic changes that need to take place," Obama said.

Tsvangirai is also scheduled to visit France, Britain, Sweden and Belgium.

Once a regional breadbasket, Zimbabwe is in the grip of a severe economic crisis and food shortages that Mugabe blames on poor weather and Western sanctions he says have hampered importation of fertilizers, seed, and other farming inputs.

Critics blame Zimbabwe's troubles on repression and wrong polices by Mugabe such as his land reforms that displaced established white commercial farmers and replaced them with either incompetent or inadequately funded black farmers leading to a massive drop in farm production.

Mugabe has defended the chaotic and often violent farm seizures as necessary to correct a colonial land tenure system that reserved most of the best arable land for whites while blacks were banished to arid and poor lands.

But critics say Mugabe’s cronies – and not ordinary peasants – benefited the most from farm seizures with some of them ending up with as many as six farms each against the government’s stated one-man-one-farm policy. — ZimOnline


http://www.zimonline.co.za/Article.aspx?ArticleId=4730


more of our money down the toilet...

We shouldn’t be giving anyone any aid!, we're almost bankrupt and we need some aid!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10517216 - 06/16/09 02:05 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

the US has already gotten trillions in aid in the form of foreign loans.  unfortunately for the lenders, they will soon find that we're just as likely as zimbabwe to pay any of it back.


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Yrat]
    #10518171 - 06/16/09 04:25 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

:lol:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10518196 - 06/16/09 04:30 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

If Mugabe was out of the picture, I would feel a lot better about this.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Redstorm]
    #10518233 - 06/16/09 04:34 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

obama promised it would go to the people. :smirk:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10518247 - 06/16/09 04:38 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

You don't actually care about real issues, do you? I assume if it doesn't involve a way to criticize Obama, you're not interest?


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Redstorm]
    #10518302 - 06/16/09 04:49 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

i hate the man and i thoroughly enjoy watching the liberals get their panties in such a wad over talking bad about him.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Redstorm]
    #10518344 - 06/16/09 04:58 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
If Mugabe was out of the picture, I would feel a lot better about this.




Tvsangarai (if I spelled that right is a minor miracle) was just in Washington pushing for the Administration to approve the aid package.  Since he is Mugabe's main political opponent and it was his followers that most of the pre- and post-election violence was perpetrated against can you really justify with-holding the aid to make some kind of point against Mugabe's oppression?

I don't think anybody doubts that Mugabe is a bad guy and the person directly responsible for nearly all Zimbabwe's current ills.  But as long as the opposition has a strong hand in the government I think you have to see what can be done for the country.  If, however, it descends back  into a blatant kleptocracy again then I see no reason to fuck around with lining Mugabe's pockets with aid money.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #10519950 - 06/16/09 09:50 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

> can you really justify with-holding the aid to make some kind of point against Mugabe's oppression?

Yes.  There are starving people at home.  If we are going to give away taxpayer money, at least keep it in the country.

Zimbabwe was doing just fine until their government decided to play robin hood with their profitable industries.  That same government is still in place and that same government is continuing to take from the successful and give to the ignorant in a failed attempt to "right the wrongs of the past."  Screw them.  Giving them aid does nothing at all to fix their problem and only makes them dependent upon the US.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10520053 - 06/16/09 10:11 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
obama promised it would go to the people. :smirk:





so Mugabe isnt people?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #10520083 - 06/16/09 10:17 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
If Mugabe was out of the picture, I would feel a lot better about this.




Tvsangarai (if I spelled that right is a minor miracle) was just in Washington pushing for the Administration to approve the aid package.




why dont we just lend a few 'military advisors' to zimbabwe instead


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OfflineTHC Titan
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Seuss]
    #10520216 - 06/16/09 10:49 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> can you really justify with-holding the aid to make some kind of point against Mugabe's oppression?

Yes.  There are starving people at home.  If we are going to give away taxpayer money, at least keep it in the country.




We could always cut our bloated defense budget by 0.1% and get about ten times the 73 million we're sending to Zimbabwe.

If so many people are starving in America it only seems like the right thing to do.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: THC Titan]
    #10520503 - 06/16/09 11:45 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

we can also cut all foreign aid and do the same


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OfflineTHC Titan
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10520586 - 06/16/09 11:57 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Our foreign aid is a drip in the bucket compared to the defense budget, and it isn't supporting nearly as large a military-industrial complex.


Edited by THC Titan (06/16/09 11:57 PM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: THC Titan]
    #10520771 - 06/17/09 12:22 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

our foreign aid is our tax dollars going to foreign countries so
they can spend like paris hilton, the military budget doesnt play
into this as it's not foreign aid


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10522058 - 06/17/09 05:46 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

The military budget does play into it.

It's not like the two budgets are drawn from different wells.

It's the same fucking money.

Saying some of it counts and some of it doesn't is stupid.

I, personally, would much rather have my money spent on direct foreign aid to a government rather than through the indirect foreign aid of a military campaign.  It's hard for me to fathom how you could say that campaigns like Iraq and Afghanistan aren't "foreign aid".  Is not half of our stated reason for being there to free the Iraqi people from tyranny?  If necessary by killing them, as zappa is so fond of saying.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #10522071 - 06/17/09 05:53 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

> Saying some of it counts and some of it doesn't is stupid.

The military budget is for the benefit of the taxpayers.  Handing out money to foreign countries does not benefit the taxpayers.  There may be problems with military spending, but the military directly benefits the taxpayer by protecting their country.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Seuss]
    #10522100 - 06/17/09 06:01 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Saying some of it counts and some of it doesn't is stupid.

The military budget is for the benefit of the taxpayers.  Handing out money to foreign countries does not benefit the taxpayers.  There may be problems with military spending, but the military directly benefits the taxpayer by protecting their country.




So you say.

I think it likely that 50% of the population would argue against your inference that the War in Iraq was perpetrated in any way to make us safer.  That seems relatively ludicrous.

More plausible, to me, is that the country will book an eventual profit from foreign aid such as this.  Opening up new markets is always a positive economic factor in a capitalist society.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #10522332 - 06/17/09 07:21 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Why do you keep going back to the Iraq war?  Regardless of it being right or wrong does nothing to change the fact that military spending benefits the taxpayer while free handouts to foreign nations do not benefit the taxpayer.

> More plausible, to me, is that the country will book an eventual profit from foreign aid such as this.

Yeah, right... give a beggar money, and they will get a job and pay you back... sure, works like that every time.  Zimbabwe was doing just fine with out handouts until they screwed up their country by taking successful businesses and giving them away to people with no business experience in the name of reverse discrimination.  I might be a bit less mean spirited if they had learned from their mistakes and were trying to rectify the situation.  This is not the case, however.  Until they change, let them rot in their own mess.  Giving them money does nothing to help and only prolongs their suffering.  Giving them taxpayer money, when our own country is in the dump, is stupid.  Lets take care of our own messes before worrying about fixing some other countries problems.


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OfflineYrat
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Re: Obama will give 73 million dollars in aid to Zimbabwe [Re: Seuss]
    #10522460 - 06/17/09 08:08 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
military spending benefits the taxpayer





i would argue that it's quite the opposite.

if there was a rational level of military spending, i would agree with you.  however, today's US military budget, which basically equivalent to ALL OTHER COUNTRIES COMBINED, has quite obviously ballooned past reasonable levels.  since the taxpayer will be the one to foot the bill, i see no benefit here.

do you believe current military spending is reasonable and required for the average citizen's safety?  :rolleyes:


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root


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