Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineAndre Nickatina
Smoov like water
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 190
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Go Vegan [Re: Lennyk]
    #10778777 - 08/01/09 06:16 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Lennyk said:


Seemed fine for a little while, then I started to get major digestive problems and energy spikes and drops (yes from fruit, stable energy my ass) started to gain fat mass and loss muscle. I went from doing 4 different mini-workouts a day (I don't recommend that much exercise now, but to put things in perspective) to nearly killing over half way through the day. I kept losing concentration in martial arts because I was bloated and had to refrain from passing wind every second I would out of class. People call that detoxing, I say, yeah right.






Let me guess, not enough calories, too much fat or not enough fruit! If you were doing it right there is no way you felt like this, what you describe is how i felt when 50% of my calorie intake was coming from Cashews. On top of that you have to make sure you eat the right combinations of foods and don't food mix hardcore, its not hard but it takes a little planning. Right now I primarily eat a mixture of melons, figs and oranges to make sure i get all my nutrition. It won't work unless you eat primarily fruits(fruit makes up about 95% of my diet) and over 75% of you Cals come from carbs, you also need to do alot of exercise.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAndre Nickatina
Smoov like water
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 190
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Go Vegan [Re: Lennyk]
    #10778780 - 08/01/09 06:19 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Lennyk said:
the current science based on tried and true history and body function backs up what I do now, a ketogenic diet.




Can we see this scientific proof?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAndre Nickatina
Smoov like water
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 190
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Go Vegan [Re: GabbaDj]
    #10778787 - 08/01/09 06:26 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

GabbaDj said:
Complete nutrition comes from eating anything and everything in moderation.

Skipping anything means your missing something.

The human race would have gone extinct long ago if it weren't for fish, milk and meat because there is no one place on the planet that has ever naturally grown a sustainable and nutritious diet.

Farming may have given more options but still there is no place on the planet that can grow enough nutrients to support a growing population.  Even with our advances in transportation and storage, meat is a necessary source that fills the nutrient gaps in the plant kingdom.

If you chose to live your life animal free, kudos but if your doing it for health reasons, why would you rob yourself of such a natural and abundant resource?




Dude your post is filled with ignorance to the max, First off "skipping anything means your missing something" is 100% completely false the world doesn't work like that. I get all the nutrition i need from 3 fruits figs, oranges and melons. 3 things give me everything i need, pretty amazing huh?

Do you really believe there is no place on earth that has ever naturally grown a sustainable and nutritious diet? Lets see China, Africa at one time, Hawaii, South america, Get a clue dude. All these places and plenty more have naturally growing fruits that will nourish you and give you every single vitamin, mineral, protein, fat etc.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblehamandcheese
Sandwich
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 12,530
Loc: Next Level
Re: Go Vegan [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10778804 - 08/01/09 06:33 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

i'll stick to my ham and cheese sandwich with lettuce tomato and onions.
its got every thing a man needs.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLennyk
D-O-L-E Dole
Male

Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 2,385
Loc: Near the Ground
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Go Vegan [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10778878 - 08/01/09 07:38 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Andre Nickatina said:
Quote:

Lennyk said:


Seemed fine for a little while, then I started to get major digestive problems and energy spikes and drops (yes from fruit, stable energy my ass) started to gain fat mass and loss muscle. I went from doing 4 different mini-workouts a day (I don't recommend that much exercise now, but to put things in perspective) to nearly killing over half way through the day. I kept losing concentration in martial arts because I was bloated and had to refrain from passing wind every second I would out of class. People call that detoxing, I say, yeah right.






Let me guess, not enough calories, too much fat or not enough fruit! If you were doing it right there is no way you felt like this, what you describe is how i felt when 50% of my calorie intake was coming from Cashews. On top of that you have to make sure you eat the right combinations of foods and don't food mix hardcore, its not hard but it takes a little planning. Right now I primarily eat a mixture of melons, figs and oranges to make sure i get all my nutrition. It won't work unless you eat primarily fruits(fruit makes up about 95% of my diet) and over 75% of you Cals come from carbs, you also need to do alot of exercise.




I told you I varied it, even for a while I followed the 80/10/10 diet by Dr. Graham (cracker  :lol: ) In which 80 percent of the calories comes from carbohydrates. Those carbs are almost from fruit, some in the vegetables, and a few from the nuts you eat. 10 percent is protein from a few nuts but mainly a build up of amino acids you accumulate from all the varieties of fruit, and 10% fat from a few nuts, seeds, and an avocado sometimes.

It simply was not working, it wasn't the same tired as an introduction to ketosis, it was a different tired and I was a lot more sore.
Quote:

Andre Nickatina said:
Quote:

Lennyk said:
the current science based on tried and true history and body function backs up what I do now, a ketogenic diet.




Can we see this scientific proof?





It is all about what the healthy pre-industrialized cultures ate.

"Pacific islanders with high intakes of fat, mostly from coconut, comprising up to 50% of total daily calories indicated “no evidence of the high saturated fat intake having a harmful effect in these populations.” When these people migrated to New Zealand, however, and lowered their intake of coconut oil and total fat, their cholesterol increased, and their HDL cholesterol decreased."

The same thing happened to many groups of indians, as well as the inuits.

The blood profiles of groups astonishes mainstream doctors that saturated fat actually improves the profile instead of utterly ruining it from reducing saturated fat intake.

I have looked at the long time fruitiatrians, and despite good dental hygiene their teeth simply wear away.

Don't get me wrong, I love fruit as much as I love cheesecake, but I gave all that up without replacing it with frankenfood simply because I want to see how far I can push my mind and body by supplying it's preferred fuel, ketones. The brain and heart both run much better on ketones, the heart burns fat whether or not in ketosis. Although the brain does need some glucose, that becomes supplied (and is aided by the few carbs in eggs one gets) by the protein you eat.

Only time will tell whether or not my assessment of the past will lead to a good future, until then I never stop searching for the next improvement.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAndre Nickatina
Smoov like water
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 190
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Go Vegan [Re: Lennyk]
    #10778915 - 08/01/09 08:00 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Show me one long time fruitarian with bad teeth, they don't exist because the people who are too retarded to do it right and fuck up there teeth go back to cooked food. A fruitarian diet isn't for people who don't want to do research, you have to do the diet completely right or you can seriously fuck yourself up. This includes never eating non ripe fruit, eating only organic(preferably local from the farmer) and getting the right combination of fruits.

If you tried the diet and it didn't work for you I can't really tell you your wrong :p but from experience i find my body has the opposite results as yours. I was on a high fat diet for about a month, i ate tons of fresh coconuts, fresh mac nuts, cashews, avocados etc. I never had energy to do work and i always felt fatigued. It also started to fuck up my teeth, now that I'm on a all fruit diet my teeth are actually healing and they don't hurt anymore :smile:. I suppose its possible that what one person thrives on another person dies on heh. By the way just because one group of people thrived on a diet doesn't make it scientifically proven, people have been thriving on all fruit diets for thousands and thousands of years. Native american people have very long lives and lived primarily on watermelon, grapes, corn and small amounts of fish.

You gotta remember we have a sweet tooth for a reason :smile:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGabbaDjS
BTH
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,679
Loc: By The Lake
Re: Go Vegan [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10780294 - 08/01/09 01:52 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Andre Nickatina said:
Show me one long time fruitarian with bad teeth, :smile:




Show me one long time fruitarian.  This whole movement of veganism and even vegetarianism is still pretty new and nobody knows what will happen if generation of offspring are forced into a diet without meat.

Early studies are not good though.  Children of life long vegetarians tend to be smaller, weaker and not as healthy as you might think.

Don't try to kid yourself by thinking that your getting everything that you need just because you feel good and because your alive.  Your body is adapting on the inside and its making due with what its given.  If your insides could talk, Ill bet that it would say "wont somebody please think of the children".

3 figs, some apples and some melons.  Sounds like a terrible way to live if you ask me.  I'm an adult and I do set boundaries for myself.  I know that eating a hot fudge sundae isn't that good for me, but man, to deny myself the pleasure of that ewey gooey melted chocolate and the creamy frozen silkiness of dairy would be inhuman.

You may think that you are doing these things for your health but what about your social health?  Your socially outcasting yourself by denying yourself the number one most basic of human bonding rituals.  The Feast.

Break bread brother, break bread.


--------------------
GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSenor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
Re: Go Vegan [Re: GabbaDj]
    #10780476 - 08/01/09 02:34 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

The rural Chinese have been eating meat free for at least 2000 years.  There is nothing new about not eating meat.  Plato even wrote a dialogue about the benefits of vegetarianism over an omnivorous diet.

You've got some serious misconceptions, butcher man.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGabbaDjS
BTH
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,679
Loc: By The Lake
Re: Go Vegan [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #10780664 - 08/01/09 03:16 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:
The rural Chinese have been eating meat free for at least 2000 years.  There is nothing new about not eating meat.  Plato even wrote a dialogue about the benefits of vegetarianism over an omnivorous diet.

You've got some serious misconceptions, butcher man.




That's just not true. 


Ive got to clear up one thing though..  I'm mostly talking about vegans and vegetarians who cut out ALL meat products.  Babies NEED milk and real animal nutrients to survive.  As adults you may need much less to "survive" but people still need the real thing and no substitute will ever be enough.

If people want to live a life free of eating or drinking animals, well that's fine and yes, it's been proven that you can do it successfully.  But we all will get old and nothing can stop the signs of aging.  In the end, we are all going to suffer the same fate.

In fact I hope that the vegans are right and that they do live the longest..  After all their friends are peacefully resting in the ground they should have an extra few years to contemplate all that they have missed while some stranger pushes them around the old folks home between diaper changes and bland tasteless meals watching reruns of Matlock.

Life is way too short people, don't deny yourself of it's pleasures.



--------------------
GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLennyk
D-O-L-E Dole
Male

Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 2,385
Loc: Near the Ground
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Go Vegan [Re: GabbaDj]
    #10780847 - 08/01/09 03:57 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

some stuff from gary taubes
Quote:

"“The more fructose in the diet, the higher the subsequent triglyceride levels in the blood,” Taubes writes on page 200. While our health authorities have focused largely on the health risks of high LDL cholesterol levels, Taubes demonstrates that our triglyceride – fat – levels are even more important in terms of our risks for heart attacks.

And especially troublesome for people with diabetes is that high-fructose diets lead us to secrete more insulin, which in turn leads to more insulin resistance. That’s because fructose seems to block both the metabolism of glucose in the liver as well as the synthesis of glucose into glycogen, the way that the liver stores glucose.

It’s even worse, Taubes writes. Fructose is perhaps 10 times worse than glucose in the way our bodies form AGEs.

It happened that just as I was reading Taubes, my favorite Certified Diabetes Educator brought to my attention a thought-provoking interview with Dr. Lustig. This interview, broadcast originally on Australia’s ABC Ratio National, confirms the outlines of Taubes’s brief against fructose.

“The only organ in your body that can take up fructose is your liver,” Dr. Lustig told interviewer Norman Swan. The first thing that eating fructose does is causing an increase in uric acid, Dr. Lustig said. Fructose inhibits nitric oxide, which would otherwise reduce our blood pressure. “So fructose is famous for causing hypertension (high blood pressure).”

“The second is that fructose initiates what’s known as de novo lipogenesis, excess fat production….And then the last thing that fructose does in the liver is it initiates an enzyme….What happens is that your insulin receptors in your liver stop working….That means your insulin levels all over your body have to rise.”

When I wrote Dr. Lustig today to ask him the name of the enzyme that fructose initiates in the liver, he told me that they call it “c-jun N-terminal kinase-1” or just JNK-1 or Junk-1. "It serine phosphorylates a protein in the liver called IRS-1 (insulin receptor substrate-1), thereby rendering it inactive. This induces hepatic insulin resistance."

Dr. Lustig also sent me a PDF of a slides for a talk he recently gave that he called "The trouble with fructose." I swear that this just happens to be the same title I had already decided to use for this article. I have uploaded his article to my site.

Damning stuff, this. In fact, “we’re being poisoned to death,” Dr. Ludwig concludes."




Quote:

GabbaDj said:
Quote:

Andre Nickatina said:
Show me one long time fruitarian with bad teeth, :smile:




Show me one long time fruitarian.  This whole movement of veganism and even vegetarianism is still pretty new and nobody knows what will happen if generation of offspring are forced into a diet without meat.

Early studies are not good though.  Children of life long vegetarians tend to be smaller, weaker and not as healthy as you might think.

Don't try to kid yourself by thinking that your getting everything that you need just because you feel good and because your alive.  Your body is adapting on the inside and its making due with what its given.  If your insides could talk, Ill bet that it would say "wont somebody please think of the children".

3 figs, some apples and some melons.  Sounds like a terrible way to live if you ask me.  I'm an adult and I do set boundaries for myself.  I know that eating a hot fudge sundae isn't that good for me, but man, to deny myself the pleasure of that ewey gooey melted chocolate and the creamy frozen silkiness of dairy would be inhuman.

You may think that you are doing these things for your health but what about your social health?  Your socially outcasting yourself by denying yourself the number one most basic of human bonding rituals.  The Feast.

Break bread brother, break bread.




Yes feasts and the simply pleasures are indeed good, I try to those far between but I must agree that for the short term there may not be problems with this fruit diet, but long term is where it gets shaky.

Fruitarians are probably the smallest group of the various sects, and even ghandi and his followers stopped realizing it was unsustainable.

If you don't take b12 you will eventually die, even if speculation is true that b12 used to be able to found in the soil due to it being made by bacteria, that is no longer the case. Fruits would be a terrible source none the less, as they would have rotten and fermented by the time they would collect enough b12 from the soil below, as simply growing it in b12 enriched soil will not cause the fruit to have it.

"The Health Promotion Program at Columbia University reports that a fruitarian diet can cause deficiencies in calcium, protein, iron, zinc, vitamin D, most B vitamins (especially B12), and essential fatty acids."

Now one can certainly argue you get vitamin D from the sun, which is true so Columbia University does need to work on that, although in the winter I can see where they come from as cod liver oil could be added, but not to a vegan diet. I must agree though with the other points, as most fruitarians convert from a previous diet, they can sustain life just based on their reserves. B12 problems can be 6-7 years away from stopping intact of b12, and sometimes longer as the body has some ability to recycle it, but eventually once it is up you are screwed and die a quick painful death at that point.

They left out vitamin A problems, I guess that is simply because vegans usually do eat a fair amount of fat, but in the case of fruitarians little fat is consumed and hinders the process of going from beta carotene to vitamin A, so be sure to make sure the times of the day you eat fat you maximize the conversion.

Another point I would like to make is, fruit is seasonal and before advances would usually be eaten right before the winter season as it is processed by the liver which overflows and allows fat to be packed on. Again I must also add, fruit used to be more sour than sweet, a bitter instead of savory treat, edible, but not delectable.

It is also essential to get enough DHA/EPA, which you convert from ALA, but most nuts and seed simply do not have, but have plenty of omega 6's (and if not raw and cold stored will be oxidized and fairly useless if not completely dangerous). Chia seed is defiantly useful for a powerful source of nutrition (again if must be consumed, a bit high in fiber though) but ALA is fairly bad as converting, and some people can barely do it if at all.

O I did not forget my comment about teeth problems, citric acid in fruit will wear at tooth enamel, especially the constant intake of acidic fruit will stop the normal salvia neutrality from coming back (as it can take an hour or so sometimes). I know many dentists and they tell me about how the heavy fruit eaters see some of the damage of soda drinkers. The worst bar none is fruit juice though, still as much as you believe your teeth are stronger, I can only hope they are, cause I don't have it out for you to have them wear out.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGabbaDjS
BTH
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,679
Loc: By The Lake
Re: Go Vegan [Re: Lennyk]
    #10781096 - 08/01/09 04:49 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Write what you want..  The fact is.

Lot's of super healthy people end up with the same types of health problems and illnesses as lazy, fat meat eaters.

That's why I exercise daily and I eat a ton of fruits and vegetables, I love my salads.  Besides Arizona tea and Snapple I've given up all sugary drinks and I rarely ever eat candy but I do like a slice of pie every now and then and beer is a staple in my diet.  Lately I've really been watching my sodium intake and eating much less salt.

I eat fish about twice a month and not all meat is high in fat.  Pork chicken, beef.  All can be very lean and healthy.  Still I love a nice thick fatty grilled ribeye about two or three times a month and I could eat big fatty meatballs in marinara every day, but I don't.  I WON'T.

I won't do it because it is true, you can force some health problems onto your body by eating lots of meats high in fat.  On the same note there are health problems associated with eating a diet that's too high in certain vitamins. 

Yin and Yang, everything in moderation, skip nothing.


--------------------
GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             


Edited by GabbaDj (08/01/09 04:56 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLennyk
D-O-L-E Dole
Male

Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 2,385
Loc: Near the Ground
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Go Vegan [Re: GabbaDj]
    #10781211 - 08/01/09 05:10 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

GabbaDj said:
Write what you want..  The fact is.

Lot's of super healthy people end up with the same types of health problems and illnesses as lazy, fat meat eaters.

That's why I exercise daily and I eat a ton of fruits and vegetables, I love my salads.  Besides Arizona tea and Snapple I've given up all sugary drinks and I rarely ever eat candy but I do like a slice of pie every now and then and beer is a staple in my diet.  Lately I've really been watching my sodium intake and eating much less salt.

I eat fish about twice a month and not all meat is high in fat.  Pork chicken, beef.  All can be very lean and healthy.  Still I love a nice thick fatty grilled ribeye about two or three times a month and I could eat big fatty meatballs in marinara every day, but I don't.  I WON'T.

I won't do it because it is true, you can force some health problems onto your body by eating lots of meats high in fat.  On the same note there are health problems associated with eating a diet that's too high in certain vitamins. 

Yin and Yang, everything in moderation, skip nothing.




See I agree with you in most cases, and glad you enjoy the simply pleasures (apple pie done right is better than sex), but I still feel that fat is wrongfully demonized, at least saturated fat. The excess of vegetable oil is a plague though, but natural meat fats do a body good. Butter, lard, bacon, tallow, and other saturated fats are the only thing one should cook in, and be a large part of the diet. The polyunsaturated oil should really only come into play with unoxidized forms of fish oil and evening primrose/borage oil/whatever comes in the natural foods you eat as long as you avoid soy, corn, and other problematic foods.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGabbaDjS
BTH
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,679
Loc: By The Lake
Re: Go Vegan [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10781290 - 08/01/09 05:23 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Do you really believe there is no place on earth that has ever naturally grown a sustainable and nutritious diet? Lets see China, Africa at one time, Hawaii, South america, Get a clue dude. All these places and plenty more have naturally growing fruits that will nourish you and give you every single vitamin, mineral, protein, fat etc.




I said no place has ever naturally grown....  And its true, naturally their is no single place on the planet that ever grew a sustainable and totally nutritious diet for a growing population.  Sure you can farm what you need but even then, not all fruits and vegetables can be grown in all places and harvest times are limited to season.

It takes incredible effort and investment to have the timed farming, harvest, transport and storage to sustain a vegetarians diet.  Without that effort a population can eat most fruit and vegetable harvests in just a few weeks.  The remainder must be dried or preserved, taking the notion of "fresh" completely out of the equation.

I don't think that most vegans and vegetarians have a clue what their limited options would be like without the advances in super modified factory farming and the year round produce selection at there local mega store.

I say we stick the vegans in Minnesota for three years and let them farm all that they can naturally and eat all they want..    Ill bet that more than half give up the first winter having to eat nothing but a limited selection of preserves and flat bread with stale beans.


--------------------
GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAndre Nickatina
Smoov like water
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 190
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Go Vegan [Re: GabbaDj]
    #10782124 - 08/01/09 08:02 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

GabbaDj said:


Show me one long time fruitarian.  This whole movement of veganism and even vegetarianism is still pretty new and nobody knows what will happen if generation of offspring are forced into a diet without meat.




How moronic can your statements get? I wonder what your gonna say next. Plenty of people thru history have thrived on fruit diets, Dr doug graham has been doing it for 25 years without any troubles along with tons and tons of others.




Early studies are not good though.  Children of life long vegetarians tend to be smaller, weaker and not as healthy as you might think.
Quote:



Says who? you? lol

Quote:

Don't try to kid yourself by thinking that your getting everything that you need just because you feel good and because your alive.  Your body is adapting on the inside and its making due with what its given.  If your insides could talk, Ill bet that it would say "wont somebody please think of the children".




Sorry bro but i don't "kid myself" its called fitday.com moron, i get more then 100% of every essential vitamin. Do you? probably not

Quote:

3 figs, some apples and some melons.  Sounds like a terrible way to live if you ask me.  I'm an adult and I do set boundaries for myself.




You just don't stop, missed my post where i said i eat 15+ pounds of fruit a day? usually around 20ish. I get 2000-3000 cals just from fruit on a daily basis.

Quote:

You may think that you are doing these things for your health but what about your social health?  Your socially outcasting yourself by denying yourself the number one most basic of human bonding rituals.  The Feast.




More assumptions, I dont need "the feast" to socialize, if people don't want to accept my fod habits fuck them. You act as if i don't eat, i can assure you i eat plenty


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGabbaDjS
BTH
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,679
Loc: By The Lake
Re: Go Vegan [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10782380 - 08/01/09 08:40 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

How moronic can your statements get? I wonder what your gonna say next. Plenty of people thru history have thrived on fruit diets, Dr doug graham has been doing it for 25 years without any troubles along with tons and tons of others.




Ya know what's most funny about all these claims from all these vegan or fruit quacks.  They all have had the benefit of growing up drinking milk, eating cheese and meat and benefiting from all that mother nature provides us..

Show me one person who has NEVER in his life ever drank milk, eaten an egg or had a hamburger and Ill show you a pale, week and sick person struggling to survive...

As for the children of vegans and children being raised vegan or fruity..  DO your own research, since you are the one who has made the choice, you should already know..  BABIES ARE NOT HEALTHY ON PLANTS ALONE!  Its an undisputed FACT and every major reputable medical association in the world agrees. 

We as humans have enjoyed a high birth success rate for a long time now..  I for one, welcome all you fruities and veggies and vegans as we grow into a world with limited resources.

I for one, thank you for ensuring that your future offspring will be to weak to steal my bacon when it finally comes down to us vs. you. 

Quote:

More assumptions, I dint need "the feast" to socialize, if people don't want to accept my fod habits fuck them. You act as if i don't eat, i can assure you i eat plenty




Its not about socializing, its about human nature.  Humans are supposed to eat meat, b12 dictates that we MUST have meat in our diets or we will go extinct.  Ill bet that you had McDonald's twice a month as a child and your parents often made hamburger helper and you often ate chicken and pork and fish and such.  If not I apologize, I'm sorry that you have no muscle mass, really I am.

But if you did have a regular meat eating childhood, you need to acknowledge the fact that you are who you are because of the nutrition given to you from eating animals and it is this animal nutrition that has enabled you to make the fruity choice that you make today.  If not you would be an adult trying to make up for the lack of animal nutrition during childhood for the rest of your life.


--------------------
GabbaDj

FAMM.ORG             


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAndre Nickatina
Smoov like water
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 190
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Go Vegan [Re: GabbaDj]
    #10784297 - 08/02/09 07:23 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

GabbaDj said:
Quote:

How moronic can your statements get? I wonder what your gonna say next. Plenty of people thru history have thrived on fruit diets, Dr doug graham has been doing it for 25 years without any troubles along with tons and tons of others.




Ya know what's most funny about all these claims from all these vegan or fruit quacks.  They all have had the benefit of growing up drinking milk, eating cheese and meat and benefiting from all that mother nature provides us..

Show me one person who has NEVER in his life ever drank milk, eaten an egg or had a hamburger and Ill show you a pale, week and sick person struggling to survive...






Wow, maybe if you realized how anything in this world worked you would realize all the benefits of milk, cheese and meat are found in plant material. Avocado's, nuts and seeds all have much healthier fat and protein content then animal products. I've met many raw vegan children and i can assure you they don't look pale and weak, ontop of that its been my findings that kids who are raw vegan are much more out going and pleasant to be around.

Its clear you've been brainwashed by the meat and dairy industries, you seriously think that bullshit is necessary? Your fucking insane bro, your too scared to back it up with any sort of fact because you know its completely false.

Keep claiming vegans are so weak, i can guarantee i have more stamina then you and am anything but weak. I get all my vitamins, minerals, proteins etc. etc. Do you? I doubt it.
You wanna bring up b12? Scientist know very little about this chemical, its now known that b vitamins are a complex and any food that contains one will contain them all. They just recently found that 100 grams of raspberries has 30% daily b12 and so do many other fruits/vegetables.

You know whats funny is i did have a normal meat eating child hood as you described, it totally fucked me. I was overweight, had severe colitis(ibs), had little energy ever and I was seriously malnourished. Meat, bread and cheese have severely fucked my insides and I'm still living with the consequences of my actions. Making kids eat that bullshit and calling it food is beyond ridiculous.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAndre Nickatina
Smoov like water
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 190
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Go Vegan [Re: GabbaDj]
    #10784322 - 08/02/09 07:38 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

GabbaDj said:


I said no place has ever naturally grown....  And its true, naturally their is no single place on the planet that ever grew a sustainable and totally nutritious diet for a growing population.  Sure you can farm what you need but even then, not all fruits and vegetables can be grown in all places and harvest times are limited to season.




So now the meat eater is gonna tell me how fruits grow and work? LMAO. There is a fruit for every season, before industrialization fruit trees literally grew wild everywhere. You can still find many wild fruit trees in china including but not limited too, Figs, apples, pears, peaches, goji berries, plums, oranges. You don't need to farm anything, its called FORAGING look it up

Quote:

It takes incredible effort and investment to have the timed farming, harvest, transport and storage to sustain a vegetarians diet.  Without that effort a population can eat most fruit and vegetable harvests in just a few weeks.  The remainder must be dried or preserved, taking the notion of "fresh" completely out of the equation.

I don't think that most vegans and vegetarians have a clue what their limited options would be like without the advances in super modified factory farming and the year round produce selection at there local mega store.




There is no incredible effort, you ever seen a pig or cow farm? now thats effort. Maybe you buy all your shit from the store but incase you didn't know they have these things called farmers markets. I get 100% of my food local from small farms and i literally know the people who grow it. Your assumption that fruit and vegetables some how go bad after a week is amazing, most fruit can be stored without refrigeration for months at a time. Unlike meat which will spoil

Quote:



I say we stick the vegans in Minnesota for three years and let them farm all that they can naturally and eat all they want..    Ill bet that more than half give up the first winter having to eat nothing but a limited selection of preserves and flat bread with stale beans.




Or maybe its the fact that Humans are tropical animals, we arn't meant to live where it snows. The places where humans evolved fruits and vegetation grew all year long


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAndre Nickatina
Smoov like water
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/02/09
Posts: 190
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Go Vegan [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10784334 - 08/02/09 07:44 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

One last thing while I'm still going off on my tangent. I don't deny myself of any pleasure in life, Its ridiculous to live your life that way, but I am aware. Smoking crack, speed, take whiffs of dustoff, snorting heroin etc. will all give me pleasure but i deny myself of these things, why? Because there fucking toxic, poisonous chemicals that have no place in the body. Just like the meat, cheese, bread and milk that you call "food"


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSenor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
Re: Go Vegan [Re: GabbaDj]
    #10784396 - 08/02/09 08:13 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

GabbaDj said:
Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:
The rural Chinese have been eating meat free for at least 2000 years.  There is nothing new about not eating meat.  Plato even wrote a dialogue about the benefits of vegetarianism over an omnivorous diet.

You've got some serious misconceptions, butcher man.




That's just not true. 





Yes it is...you can't just say something isn't true in the face of a shit ton of evidence to the contrary.  The rural Chinese get less than ten percent of their caloric intake from protein.  It is obvious Gabba that you have not read this thread and have just started posting to it at the end with a bunch of unsubstantiated opinion about what is required for the human diet.

There is absolutely no need to eat animal products or byproducts to grow up big and strong.  Unless you think that so many billions of Chinese people are pale and weak.

What are these special nutrients gained from meat and meat byproducts that can not be gained naturally?

Also, you think that Vegans miss out on the good stuff in life because they don't eat ice cream sundaes...

Look, I mean if it is worth it for you to get cancer and be a drain on the medical system because you want to enjoy life and let the facts be damned.  Its absurd, man.

Milkshakes now and cancer later, that shows a real value for the things that are important.

Oh and the other thing:  You think that a Vegan diet is bland?  I guess you don't really like Indian food or Thai food, huh?  The #1 word that I think of when I hear Thai food is: bland...


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineLennyk
D-O-L-E Dole
Male

Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 2,385
Loc: Near the Ground
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
Re: Go Vegan [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #10785503 - 08/02/09 12:25 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Andre Nickatina said:


Wow, maybe if you realized how anything in this world worked you would realize all the benefits of milk, cheese and meat are found in plant material. Avocado's, nuts and seeds all have much healthier fat and protein content then animal products. I've met many raw vegan children and i can assure you they don't look pale and weak, ontop of that its been my findings that kids who are raw vegan are much more out going and pleasant to be around.




Only if you believe saturated fat is bad (which it isn't and was wrongfully demonized in the mid 1900's), and people have been getting fatter and sicker sense.

Quote:

Its clear you've been brainwashed by the meat and dairy industries, you seriously think that bullshit is necessary? Your fucking insane bro, your too scared to back it up with any sort of fact because you know its completely false.



The dairy and meat industry don't advertise nearly as much as the soy one, and they even do themselves a disservice by saying fat is bad and to only eat lean beef and nonfat dairy. Works for me fine though, the fatty cuts are cheaper as a result for me to buy.

Quote:

Keep claiming vegans are so weak, i can guarantee i have more stamina then you and am anything but weak. I get all my vitamins, minerals, proteins etc. etc. Do you? I doubt it.
You wanna bring up b12? Scientist know very little about this chemical, its now known that b vitamins are a complex and any food that contains one will contain them all. They just recently found that 100 grams of raspberries has 30% daily b12 and so do many other fruits/vegetables.





I have not been able to find this information about b12 being in raspberries. I sincerely doubt that unless the bacteria to produce b12 is present on it.
Quote:

You know whats funny is i did have a normal meat eating child hood as you described, it totally fucked me. I was overweight, had severe colitis(ibs), had little energy ever and I was seriously malnourished. Meat, bread and cheese have severely fucked my insides and I'm still living with the consequences of my actions. Making kids eat that bullshit and calling it food is beyond ridiculous.




Kids eat more than meat, more than cheese, all that white flour going into the bread and macaroni and so much sugar. That stuff is going to fatten you up, I know it did it to me before I changed my habits, stupid ritz crackers.

Quote:

Andre Nickatina said:


So now the meat eater is gonna tell me how fruits grow and work? LMAO. There is a fruit for every season, before industrialization fruit trees literally grew wild everywhere. You can still find many wild fruit trees in china including but not limited too, Figs, apples, pears, peaches, goji berries, plums, oranges. You don't need to farm anything, its called FORAGING look it up




Only in places without cold seasons, and as I have said in the absence of fruit and vegetables, meat was eaten without problems. Native populations eating large amounts of fruit are not immune from the problems, as even though they are not industrialized they use their own technology to climb certain fruit trees and use knives to get ate the fruit. Previously these trees would not be accessible due to the nature of some trees being to painful to climb. Yet again I also bring up, the fruit is not the same fruit, thing of tomatoes, not sweet (especially some of the ones for some hearty stewed tomatoes) but a fruit. The fruit has been grown for our sweet tooth to sell more, you never find people picking low sugar sour apples over the nice sweet ones for just eating.

I have eaten wild fruit, and usually it is pretty bitter as best.

From Dr. Ben Kim: "Another problem with a high fruit diet is that it can lead to problems involving the hormones that regulate your blood sugar; insulin, glucagon, and growth hormone. A chronic imbalance of these hormones is a sure way to develop cardiovascular disease and diabetes."



Quote:

There is no incredible effort, you ever seen a pig or cow farm? now thats effort. Maybe you buy all your shit from the store but incase you didn't know they have these things called farmers markets. I get 100% of my food local from small farms and i literally know the people who grow it. Your assumption that fruit and vegetables some how go bad after a week is amazing, most fruit can be stored without refrigeration for months at a time. Unlike meat which will spoil





Hunting, no need to raise them, just spear them.
Fruits rot quickly, certain vegetables last longer (especially squash), but calorie density becomes an issue. Even if the fruit does not decay, the vitamins and minerals are lost the longer it is stored.



Quote:

Or maybe its the fact that Humans are tropical animals, we arn't meant to live where it snows. The places where humans evolved fruits and vegetation grew all year long




The inuits did fine, and humans may not be designed to deal with snow, but they are not made for the dessert either. The difference is we adapt with technology faster than by our DNA.

Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:


Yes it is...you can't just say something isn't true in the face of a shit ton of evidence to the contrary.  The rural Chinese get less than ten percent of their caloric intake from protein.  It is obvious Gabba that you have not read this thread and have just started posting to it at the end with a bunch of unsubstantiated opinion about what is required for the human diet.

There is absolutely no need to eat animal products or byproducts to grow up big and strong.  Unless you think that so many billions of Chinese people are pale and weak.

What are these special nutrients gained from meat and meat byproducts that can not be gained naturally?

Also, you think that Vegans miss out on the good stuff in life because they don't eat ice cream sundaes...

Look, I mean if it is worth it for you to get cancer and be a drain on the medical system because you want to enjoy life and let the facts be damned.  Its absurd, man.

Milkshakes now and cancer later, that shows a real value for the things that are important.

Oh and the other thing:  You think that a Vegan diet is bland?  I guess you don't really like Indian food or Thai food, huh?  The #1 word that I think of when I hear Thai food is: bland...




Any type of eating style can be quite tasty, but that is not the core of the thread, at least I thought that it wasn't.

The rural chinese also believe in cooking, so they are far from a raw food diet (I know you didn't say that, but there are those that support the raw diet as the best).

Here is just one site that shows some of the problems of the china study in case anyone cared.

In china meat was valued for it's "strengthening power." The poor ate what they could, and would even cook in rapeseed oil sometimes when they had to (unrefined canola oil, only called canola oil because it was made in canada) and that dreadful rapeseed oil is horrid on the heart and many parts of the body.

The rural laborers suffered malnourishment many times because they would work more than they could get food. It is easy to say the heart disease and such was lower when you die of starvation, disease, at birth and factor in all the unpleasant things peasants had to deal with. Also realize it was a time when sweets were a luxury and little debbie was not a couple quarters for some sugar cookies. The rich had more access to meat (commonly blamed to be the problem for diseases) but their consumption of sugar was much higher, as well as the use of non-saturated fat in cooking was still in full swing as those that can afford the tastier oils will do so. The fact is their deaths wouldn't be from exhaustion and starvation must mean it will come from somewhere else, and due to their improper luxury diet, they paid the price.

People assume just because meat is involved it throws everything else out the door for while diseases are there.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Questions for Vegans
( 1 2 3 all )
Jef 4,350 41 01/24/10 07:51 PM
by soochi
* vegans
( 1 2 3 4 all )
fung_us_among_us 6,429 65 07/17/05 07:58 PM
by soochi
* Vegan ideas? PDU 1,242 16 03/12/14 01:47 AM
by Deep Blue
* Share your vegan/vegatarian recipes! bigbigbilly 812 14 12/16/12 06:51 AM
by CosmicJoke
* lookin to cook some dank food tonite with a girlfriend of mine....help with ideas? vegan friendly DeadPhan 847 8 08/01/09 02:40 AM
by Chespirito
* Want to Go Vegan MisterKite 883 5 03/07/06 05:08 PM
by morphogenetic
* Good Vegan Recipes!
( 1 2 all )
aliceinwndrlnd 1,732 35 06/07/13 10:25 AM
by Romi
* Vegetarian and Vegan Beers MisterMuscaria 1,412 13 11/10/08 09:53 PM
by MisterMuscaria

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: trendal, geokills, feevers
10,751 topic views. 0 members, 4 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.029 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 15 queries.