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Offlineladydeath
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Lennyk]
    #10701736 - 07/18/09 10:49 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Lennyk said:
Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:
Sure is.  It is not like fructose is the only ingredient in fruit.  There is likely a proportioned amount of water and enzymes that allow the fructose to be dealt with.  This is the whole point to eating whole foods.

To the person making the diabetes claims against fruit...have you seen the numbers of diabetics among meat eaters compared to diabetics who eat vegan diets?  There is really no comparison.





I haven't run the numbers, but meat eater's as a group may eat meat, but they eat much more. Just because someone eats meat does not mean they do not shove down pop tarts and mountain dew.

Vegans in the long term generally will see a greater incidence of digestive problems, especially within the intestines.

Fruit  may not be the worst thing to put into the body, but certainly is far from the best as even many supporters of fruit will tell you that one can usually get much better nutrition out of vegetables.




I disagree with this somewhat. It's very clear to me that the world's average human (mostly excluding people like you and I) IS chowing down on pop tarts and take away haha.

I'm not seeing McDonalds, KFC, Pizza Hut or any other major fast food conglomerate go out of business, so I think it's pretty safe to assume meat/junk food eaters are alive and well.

BUT this isn't to say there aren't people living perfectly balanced meat eating diet.

I'm 21 and have been Vegan for 4 and a half years and although, some may not consider that 'long term Veganism', I can report NO negative effects on my body. This has been proven to me in several pathology tests performed in years and one as recent as this week. I eat a healthy portion of both fruit, vegetables, tofu, tempeh, soy milk, grains, carbs etc. If anything I found I'm healthier and leaner but certainly not skeletal!

I would however, encourage people to watch their sugar intake. Fruit is important. But sugar is still sugar. And all food groups should be taken in moderation.


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: ladydeath]
    #10701863 - 07/18/09 11:23 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

A well-rounded diet is important for people to live optimally.  If it is possible to get every essential nutrient from fruit, it would take a lot of study to figure out how I would think, as it would with any other food source viewed in isolation.

So, yes, absolutely, eat a various Vegan diet full of nutrient-rich food to ensure maximum health. 

The only misconception that I am trying to argue, and it is extremely pervasive, is the idea that it is possible to eat a healthy diet that includes meat.

The science is in.  Meat is unhealthy.  If you want to lower your risk for heart disease, diabetes, cancer, arthritis, and neurological disorders, the best way to do that is to abandon meat as a food source or limit it to a miniscule amount.

Of course McDonald's and Frito-Lay are especially unhealthy foods.  But this does little to overturn research showing casein to be hugely linked to cancer in rats and mice.

Still, you are right.  I have to concede the possibility that some meat is not harmful.  But it seems as though the human body just doesn't know how to process it.  It automatically stores it as fat.  Calorie in, fat out, and on and on through te intestinal tract.

Not so with any other food source.  The body burns the calories it needs and sends the rest out the ass.  The system runs smoother.  you find yourself no longer hot in 85-90 degree weather.  Because calories are being burned directly from the food in your gut in order to mantain body temperature. 

You have more energy because the body is not struggling to deal with a food source it doesn't know how to handle properly. 

Your cholesterol goes down.  Plant matter contains zero cholesterol.  Blood cholesterol is not only linked to heart disease but diabetes and cancer as well.

Its a pretty common sense argument.  If you try it, I guarentee you will see benefits within weeks.  Combine with exercise and you will be amazed at how the weight just flies off and you feel so much better.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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Offlineladydeath
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #10702020 - 07/19/09 12:10 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I am completely on your side Senior Doobie!

This is how I rationalise it. For example:

Native tribesman rely on hunter gather methods in order to provide nutritious meals for their family. And I'd say they'd live off plant, rice and fish. They live on the most basic of foods and include meat in their diet and yet, they have sustained the ages!

In saying that, if I ever went to South America on an Amazonian Aya journey, I would eat fish. Because they are high in nutrients, fatty acids and omega 3 blah blah blah. I also believe catching, preparing and cooking your own fish can be a good experience, in terms of appreciating nature and taking ONLY what you need. And that way you know the produce is not caught on some mass fishing boat in a toxic sea with waste dumped from god knows where.

Eating meat from large scale supermarkets are DESTINED to come from a bad place. Disease, cramped chickens in battery cages. Underfed cows with rotting limbs etc. I won't to go into detail. We should all be well educated on the topic by now.

Saying all that, your diet is your own. I am vegan because I feel it is the right path for me. I have no problem with the concept of people occasionally eating meat or fish, just know your sources! And watch your cholesterol :smile:


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OfflineAndre Nickatina
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Lennyk]
    #10702776 - 07/19/09 07:28 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Lennyk said:

Fruit  may not be the worst thing to put into the body, but certainly is far from the best as even many supporters of fruit will tell you that one can usually get much better nutrition out of vegetables.




Vegetables may be more dense nutrition wise but you can get most if not all of the nutrients you need from fruit. Ontop of that it is pretty much impossible to eat 2000+ calories worth of greens, unless you like to chew 24/7, fruit on the other hand is much more calorie packed and provides you with the essential energy your body needs (carbs). What else would you suggest is better then fruits besides greens??????


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OfflineAndre Nickatina
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: ladydeath]
    #10702788 - 07/19/09 07:34 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ladydeath said:


I would however, encourage people to watch their sugar intake. Fruit is important. But sugar is still sugar. And all food groups should be taken in moderation.




Most nutritionist recommend a diet(based on calories) of about 60-70% carbs, 20-30% fats and 10-20% protein. Where else would you get your carbs if you don't eat mass amounts of sweet fruit???? Starches you can't even digest properly?? No need to be scared of fruits, seriously the fear mongering needs to stop.


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Offlineladydeath
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10702833 - 07/19/09 08:00 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Haha oh this is not 'fear mongering', I love sugar just as much as everybody else, maybe a little more :P Although I have to remember that if I've gotten my sugar intake from a few peaches and soy yoghurt in the morning, and maybe a few hours later I felt hungry again. Instead of having a banana, apple, orange, which will increase my sugar intake further. Maybe I should have a serve of vegetables instead? Perhaps something high in starch, like potato sweet potato, pumpkin etc. Way more filling, and a different food group! I really think variation/moderation of everything is key.

For example, I wouldn't encourage people to OVERINDULGE in grapes. Apart from the fact you may suffer a lot of wind, you would also have a very high sugar intake. ALAS, if the choice is a bucket of grapes vs. 10 blocks of chocolate. Then it's obvious which the better choice is.

It's just common sense!

Don't get me wrong, I'm pro fruit :smile:


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10702879 - 07/19/09 08:23 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I find the best way to beat hunger is to eat some whole grain in the morning with a piece of fruit.  I choose steel-cut oatmeal and a banana.  I snack on nuts and dried fruit but not a lot.  When its time for lunch I have a salad with lots of leafy green vegetables.  Unless I'm being really active, I don't need a third meal.

Hunger is a sign of your body needing something.  The best way to beat it is to eat a variety of foods so that the needs of the body are met.  Its impossible to get certain nutrients from certain foods no matter how much of it you eat.  This is why you may never feel satisfied.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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OfflineAndre Nickatina
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: ladydeath]
    #10703021 - 07/19/09 09:09 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ladydeath said:
Although I have to remember that if I've gotten my sugar intake from a few peaches and soy yoghurt in the morning, and maybe a few hours later I felt hungry again. Instead of having a banana, apple, orange, which will increase my sugar intake further.




So please tell me whats wrong with sugar? Why would you eat starch(which is just complex sugar molecules) over sugar?? You def need greens but also you need alot of carbohydrates(sugar). I seriously don't get the problem with a high fruit intake, just because fruits happen to taste awesome and be super sweet you think there bad?? Fruits are not refined sugar people! You would be alot better off if you replaced that soy poison and "starch" with simple sugars from whole organic fruits


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10703261 - 07/19/09 10:29 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

The fact that you eat 15 pounds of anything a day should tell you you're doing something wrong.

Scientists all point to complex carbohydrates, like those found in leafy green vegetables and whole grains to be more beneficial than simple sugars like those found in fruit.  The reason is because the carbohydrates are more complex and take longer to convert into usable sugar and this slows your appetite and allows a more steady supply of fuel as opposed to sugars which are burned more quickly.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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OfflineAndre Nickatina
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #10708057 - 07/20/09 06:45 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:
The fact that you eat 15 pounds of anything a day should tell you you're doing something wrong.




What else would you suggest i do to get my daily calorie intake?? The fact you don't eat 15 pounds a day of fruit should tell you your doing something wrong imo, its impossible to to get sufficient calories a day unless you eat massive quanitys of whole foods, binge out on fats or eat processed bullshit

Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:
Scientists all point to complex carbohydrates, like those found in leafy green vegetables and whole grains to be more beneficial than simple sugars like those found in fruit.  The reason is because the carbohydrates are more complex and take longer to convert into usable sugar and this slows your appetite and allows a more steady supply of fuel as opposed to sugars which are burned more quickly.





Scientists are fucktards who do bullshit studys that mean nothing to me in labs usually on mice. Ontop of this it should be obvious to you that anything that takes longer to digest is worse for you, the longer somthing takes to digest the more it taxes your body. When i was eating bread, rice etc. i was always tired and never had energy cus my body was using all its energy to digest food, now i eat acouple pounds of fruit and i feel like superman. Wheat is a manmade bullshit food, along with potatos, corn and soy. The fact anyone suggest to eat any of these products over fruits simply amazes me.


Another amazing thing about being primarily fruitarian, I DONT DRINK WATER!!!. Yes thats right i no longer have to drink bullshit water, i get the cleanest, purest water possible via fruits!!!! Gone are the days of mineral striped tapwater and plastic jugs :smile:


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10708246 - 07/20/09 08:13 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Well, i gotta say I'm a little uncomfortable with your dismissal of science as a bunch of fucktards doing bullshit studies.  All that we know about nutrition comes from science.  It is the most reliable source we have.

However, I do agree that experimentation on the self and a logical approach is the way to go.  I also see your point about processing.  I do not think that man is capable of supplying nutrition as much as nature is.  It is still possible though that there is some room for a marriage between the two to come up with pretty good results.

You make some claims.  You say slow digestibility is related to unhealthy food.  I am not aware of this and am unwilling to accept it without some corroboration.  You say that because something is in your digestive tract longer it is harder for the body to digest it. 

This is simply untrue.  The body will get the nutrients from the food as it is needed.  It does not try to get every last nutrient out of the food.  It simply takes what it needs and sends the rest out the ass.

Simple sugars are digested quickly.  The processes involved in transforming them into energy are simpler and harder to control.  This is why you get rushes of energy from simpler sugars. 

Not the case with vegetables and more complex sugars. 

As far as your daily caloric intake, why is it at that point that you trust somebody else, the government of all people, to tell you what you need.  Remember the daily recommendations are based on the standard american diet which is not vegetarian. 

I would say, eat when you are hungry or tired.  If you're always hungry, there's a good chance you aren't getting an important nutrient.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10745361 - 07/26/09 08:54 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Wheat is a manmade bullshit food, along with potatos, corn and soy. The fact anyone suggest to eat any of these products over fruits simply amazes me.


Another amazing thing about being primarily fruitarian, I DONT DRINK WATER!!!. Yes thats right i no longer have to drink bullshit water, i get the cleanest, purest water possible via fruits!!!! Gone are the days of mineral striped tapwater and plastic jugs




I LOL'd.


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OfflineLennyk
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10760552 - 07/29/09 08:32 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:


The science is in.  Meat is unhealthy.  If you want to lower your risk for heart disease, diabetes, cancer, arthritis, and neurological disorders, the best way to do that is to abandon meat as a food source or limit it to a miniscule amount.





That must explain why the inuits and native americans eating almost nothing but meat and fat had so much heart disease :rolleyes:
Quote:

Still, you are right.  I have to concede the possibility that some meat is not harmful.  But it seems as though the human body just doesn't know how to process it.  It automatically stores it as fat.  Calorie in, fat out, and on and on through te intestinal tract.




That is incorrect on so many levels! The body digests meat upwards of 97 or more % and absorbs it much better than plant matter where the nutrients are bound in. The iron absorbed more meat is also much safer. Meat does not have fiber, an element still mistaken as needed, but all it does is sweep nutrients away. With a diet high enough in fat digestion is just as easy, but more infrequent because of the high utilization of food.
Fat does not equal fat, especially if they become ketones to yield 4.5 calories of energy. Excess carbohydrates will much easier plump you up as you feel like you need to eat more. 

Quote:

Not so with any other food source.  The body burns the calories it needs and sends the rest out the ass.  The system runs smoother.  you find yourself no longer hot in 85-90 degree weather.  Because calories are being burned directly from the food in your gut in order to mantain body temperature.


 

I eat a pound of beef before doing cardio interval training in hot humid weather and it made no difference in being hot than a couple of years ago when I tried vegetarianism. Only difference is my times are better not being on a ketogenic diet.

Quote:

You have more energy because the body is not struggling to deal with a food source it doesn't know how to handle properly.


 

The body has been with meat longer than it has grains, or this stupid high sugar fruit hybrids.

Quote:

Your cholesterol goes down.  Plant matter contains zero cholesterol.  Blood cholesterol is not only linked to heart disease but diabetes and cancer as well.




The amount of cholesterol you eat has little to do with the amount in the blood. The liver will make it if you do not consume it. It is not an evil substance, you will die without it. Higher cholesterol is associated with higher cognitive function in elder people. Plants may not contain cholesterol, but it can sure damage your system as cholesterol shows up to act like a bandaid in the body when damage is present.

Quote:

Andre Nickatina said:
Quote:

Lennyk said:

Fruit  may not be the worst thing to put into the body, but certainly is far from the best as even many supporters of fruit will tell you that one can usually get much better nutrition out of vegetables.




Vegetables may be more dense nutrition wise but you can get most if not all of the nutrients you need from fruit. Ontop of that it is pretty much impossible to eat 2000+ calories worth of greens, unless you like to chew 24/7, fruit on the other hand is much more calorie packed and provides you with the essential energy your body needs (carbs). What else would you suggest is better then fruits besides greens??????




Exactly, which should tell you something about what you should eat. Your body does not need carbohydrates to be eaten, any basic biology book will tell you that. Any carbohydrates the body needs can be made within the body. Most systems in the body will run on ketones and those that do run better. While getting into ketogenic diets, the transition can be a bit rough, but the brain runs better on ketones. It still needs some glucose,  but the amount is minimal so one need not intact any if they actually eat real food with protein instead of just simple carbohydrates.
Meat overall is still better than vegetation as the vitamins and minerals are easily absorbed and in many ways one step ahead of the plant kingdom. Vitamin C is higher in broccoli than oranges, but meat has it beat as the conversion need not be made in rare meat as the thing vitamin c converts into before being used is already present in the meat.
Quote:

Andre Nickatina said:
Quote:

ladydeath said:


I would however, encourage people to watch their sugar intake. Fruit is important. But sugar is still sugar. And all food groups should be taken in moderation.




Most nutritionist recommend a diet(based on calories) of about 60-70% carbs, 20-30% fats and 10-20% protein. Where else would you get your carbs if you don't eat mass amounts of sweet fruit???? Starches you can't even digest properly?? No need to be scared of fruits, seriously the fear mongering needs to stop.





Nutritionists have been pounding the low fat false information since it was put forth, it doesn't make it correct. People only know what they learn, if taught incorrectly they spread that information. If they were correct on eating that many carbohydrates, starches would have to be the way. Starches digest better than fruit when cooked and prepared correctly (potatoes being possibly the best starch if one were to have to pick one). Starch is made of glucose, which a lone I have said does not cause insulin resistance, however fructose does.

Your 'sacred fruit' isn't even how it used to be. All the modern fruit is sweet to appeal to sugar craving junkies, but REAL fruit is bitter and contains a miniscule amount of sugar.

Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:
The fact that you eat 15 pounds of anything a day should tell you you're doing something wrong.

Scientists all point to complex carbohydrates, like those found in leafy green vegetables and whole grains to be more beneficial than simple sugars like those found in fruit.  The reason is because the carbohydrates are more complex and take longer to convert into usable sugar and this slows your appetite and allows a more steady supply of fuel as opposed to sugars which are burned more quickly.




Complex carbs outside of certain vegetables are only slow when one compares a train to a drag racer, both brake down too quickly but one is slightly slower than the other.


Quote:

Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:
Scientists all point to complex carbohydrates, like those found in leafy green vegetables and whole grains to be more beneficial than simple sugars like those found in fruit.  The reason is because the carbohydrates are more complex and take longer to convert into usable sugar and this slows your appetite and allows a more steady supply of fuel as opposed to sugars which are burned more quickly.





Scientists are fucktards who do bullshit studys that mean nothing to me in labs usually on mice. Ontop of this it should be obvious to you that anything that takes longer to digest is worse for you, the longer somthing takes to digest the more it taxes your body. When i was eating bread, rice etc. i was always tired and never had energy cus my body was using all its energy to digest food, now i eat acouple pounds of fruit and i feel like superman. Wheat is a manmade bullshit food, along with potatos, corn and soy. The fact anyone suggest to eat any of these products over fruits simply amazes me.


Another amazing thing about being primarily fruitarian, I DONT DRINK WATER!!!. Yes thats right i no longer have to drink bullshit water, i get the cleanest, purest water possible via fruits!!!! Gone are the days of mineral striped tapwater and plastic jugs :smile:




Bread. rice and the like digest extremely quickly, not sure where you thought it didn't. Wheat is not manmade, the process in which it is eaten is however, Potatoes, corn, and soy all existed, by like your fruit, have been breed for what people want out of them. I don't recommend those foods except potatoes if forced to eat carbohydrates, but I would pick that over some fruit.

Lol you realize unless the fruit you get is watered with reverse osmosis water you are still getting the fluoride, arsenic, lead and other problems of tap water. Fruit does not filter out the bad stuff.


Ugh, anything else?


Edited by Lennyk (07/31/09 04:05 PM)


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Lennyk]
    #10764057 - 07/29/09 07:43 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

For now, just fix your post.

I'll refute your crap later.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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OfflineAndre Nickatina
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #10770727 - 07/30/09 08:05 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I've realized trying to argue with some one about what is right or wrong about nutrition, especially over the internet, is fucking retarded. There is so many studies that say varying things, no one really no's for sure what is right and wrong. If you can't grasp common sense that plants , especially fruits, are the most beneficial thing available to us then by all means continue with your meat. If it works for you why change it? You'll see in a couple years the error of your ways or you might not, who knows. All i know is fruits and vegetables are the most potent, nutritious, tasty food available so I'm gonna eat them in mass quantities.

By the way your assumption that we don't need carbohydrates is right but its flawed, while we might not necessarily need carbohydrates they are without a doubt the most efficient fuel for our body. You have fun synthesizing all your carbohydrates I know from experience that a high fat diet drains the fuck out of you, try a high fruit diet for just one week and you'll see the meaning of true energy!

Also don't forget that protein is dangerous, you only need 10% of your calorie intake to be made up protein. It can cause many problems for you if you eat excess protein


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Offlineeastuvdariver
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10771124 - 07/30/09 09:34 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

you know i think we should all agree on one thing; americans are fat lazy fucks who eat too much, regardless of what they are eating.

eat what you want, just stop eating 4500 calories a day. then try getting off your ass and doing something once and a while.


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: eastuvdariver]
    #10771162 - 07/30/09 09:41 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

If you want to lose weight, the best way to do that is to stop eating meat and meat byproducts  and start exercising. 

Its really that easy.  And its a lot easier than you think.  Just buy some steel cut oats and a bunch of bananas.  Eat a bowl and a banana for breakfast, a big salad for lunch, and if you don't exercise see if you even want a dinner.  Pick on nuts and fruit during the day.  You won't even need to eat dinner.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #10771180 - 07/30/09 09:45 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I mean that's the whole point is that the results are inarguable.  I lent out my copy of the China Study.  When I get it back I'll show some charts that will blow your mind.

And to the guy who can't figure out how to use ubb code:

If you eat meat byproducts, you are not vegan.  This probably explains why you feel no difference since you started eating meat again.  Also, if you ate a bunch of processed foods, that was bad on you too.  Converting to a vegan diet is the easiest thing in the world.  I've only been eating this way since May and I've already converted 3 people.


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OfflineLennyk
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #10775692 - 07/31/09 04:23 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:
I mean that's the whole point is that the results are inarguable.  I lent out my copy of the China Study.  When I get it back I'll show some charts that will blow your mind.

And to the guy who can't figure out how to use ubb code:

If you eat meat byproducts, you are not vegan.  This probably explains why you feel no difference since you started eating meat again.  Also, if you ate a bunch of processed foods, that was bad on you too.  Converting to a vegan diet is the easiest thing in the world.  I've only been eating this way since May and I've already converted 3 people.



:rolleyes: I fixed it, I submitted it because I was in a hurry trying to type so much.

The china study has many flaws, found just as easily as a google search.

I was vegan for a while with no junk food whatsoever, hell I was eating no sugar (except from fruit, but I know better now). I ate no processed food whatsoever (except if you consider hemp protein a processed food) I had all the hardcore vegan stuff like spirulina (I didn't have any soy) and had no artificial sweeteners, no soda no nothing. I had chia seeds for the omega 3 (inferior I might add to the fish oil I have now) and raw nuts for some of the parent omega 6. I followed everything according to the the various health people, even did most of the stuff raw to boot. I would adjust the fat (unsaturated) between that of the 80/10/10 diet, and other raw enthusiasts.

Seemed fine for a little while, then I started to get major digestive problems and energy spikes and drops (yes from fruit, stable energy my ass) started to gain fat mass and loss muscle. I went from doing 4 different mini-workouts a day (I don't recommend that much exercise now, but to put things in perspective) to nearly killing over half way through the day. I kept losing concentration in martial arts because I was bloated and had to refrain from passing wind every second I would out of class. People call that detoxing, I say, yeah right.

I am not just some random meat head troll, I know far reaching theories from a lot of different people (although I feel many are misguided).

In case you are wondering, the diet I did before the vegan trial was free of produced food and all that jazz, it had vegetables, but the largest food source was fat and protein from the eggs and chicken I ate. It was atkins in a sense before I know about atkins and it worked fine, it was an incredible upgrade from peanut butter banana sandwiches on white bread and ramen with processed american cheese. The vegan fruit thing was a big let down for I had thought it would be this amazing thing and all the meat heads were just like heroin addicts unable to give up meat. It simply was not the case though, and the current science based on tried and true history and body function backs up what I do now, a ketogenic diet. I have no cramps ever when I run, despite I run harder and faster, I am not sure when I return from a run. My weightlifting gets better and better with much less problems. I continue to get leaner as I gain muscle, I am mentally sharper and have less foggy feelings, and I rarely feel hungry.

I apologize if I has sounded like an ass in some of my posts, but I have checked into these diets and as I learn more I develop myself into what I see is the best.  :justdontknow:


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InvisibleGabbaDjS
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Registered: 04/08/01
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #10776119 - 07/31/09 05:36 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Complete nutrition comes from eating anything and everything in moderation.

Skipping anything means your missing something.

The human race would have gone extinct long ago if it weren't for fish, milk and meat because there is no one place on the planet that has ever naturally grown a sustainable and nutritious diet.

Farming may have given more options but still there is no place on the planet that can grow enough nutrients to support a growing population.  Even with our advances in transportation and storage, meat is a necessary source that fills the nutrient gaps in the plant kingdom.

If you chose to live your life animal free, kudos but if your doing it for health reasons, why would you rob yourself of such a natural and abundant resource?


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