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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10656786 - 07/11/09 07:45 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

How about your teeth, is there any problem eating large amounts of fruit because of the high sugar content?

If you haven't already you should consider buying some land and starting a food forest.....


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10657726 - 07/11/09 12:02 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

> I eat around 13-15 pounds of fruit a day,

Egads!  You are a diabetic waiting to happen.  That much fructose is very hard your body.  Seriously, you need to cut way down on your sugar intake.


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Seuss]
    #10662554 - 07/12/09 11:10 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> I eat around 13-15 pounds of fruit a day,

Egads!  You are a diabetic waiting to happen.  That much fructose is very hard your body.  Seriously, you need to cut way down on your sugar intake.





Maybe right after an intense workout, in order to spike insulin???


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Mr.Al]
    #10662851 - 07/12/09 12:15 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

It seems like a lifestyle consisting of that much fruit would involve sitting on a toilet all day with a basket of fruit.

As far as fitness is concerned, Mr. Al, if you are seriously interesed, you might want to check out Brendan Brazier's book.  "Thrive: The Vegan Nutrition Guide for Sports and Life"

Used copies are available at Amazon for under ten bucks.

I own a copy.  Its full of delicious and fairly simple recipes.  It goes into pretty deep discussion of ingredients and the nutrients obtained from them as well as a 12-week meal plan, which I have not tried.  I can vouch for the recipes though, and all of the food is extremely nutrient dense and very tasty.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


Edited by Senor_Doobie (07/12/09 12:19 PM)


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OfflineLennyk
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10663439 - 07/12/09 02:20 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Andre Nickatina said:
Quote:

Mr.Al said:
I heard there is a specific B vitamin missing in a vegan diet.  Is there any food that takes care of that?  Quinoa perhaps?

Also, would eating too much fruit cause blood sugar and therefore insulin to go haywire?





Your thinking of b12, it used to be believed you had to supplement this if your vegan but thats bullshit. http://www.roylretreat.com/articles/b12.html. ;

I eat around 13-15 pounds of fruit a day, 10 pounds of watermelon, 3 pounds of apples and 2 pounds of whatever else i want (usually oranges). I've never felt better in my life, mentally and physically.






Fructose is possibly the worst sugar, as it not glucose causes insulin resistance. Never in history did man eat so much fruit as they do today, as it is available whenever one wants it. The 80/10/10 ratio from that one guy who says eat a bunch of bananas is insane, carbs are the one group one does not need to eat to be perfectly healthy. Any carbs needed are created within the body and the body begins to run on ketones (the preferred source of fuel for many parts of the body despite the glucose pushers) . Ketosis is only dangerous in cases with diabetic ketosis where ketone levels are far higher than any ketogenic diet will ever allow.

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
Quote:

Seuss said:
> I eat around 13-15 pounds of fruit a day,

Egads!  You are a diabetic waiting to happen.  That much fructose is very hard your body.  Seriously, you need to cut way down on your sugar intake.





Maybe right after an intense workout, in order to spike insulin???




Fruit doesn't spike insulin really (unless a ton is eaten), but it does cause insulin resistance.

Insulin spike after a workout is bad science as I see it, as many new studies see it as not needed, frankly I don't do it, but then again I rarely eat carbs at all.


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Lennyk]
    #10666443 - 07/12/09 11:17 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

If carbohydrates do not optimize health, then why are people who eat a diet based on carbohydrates so much healthier than people who eat meat?


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #10666500 - 07/12/09 11:31 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

http://www.ajph.org/cgi/content/abstract/75/5/507

We propose the hypothesis that a vegetarian diet reduces the risk of developing diabetes. Findings that have generated this hypothesis are from a population of 25,698 adult White Seventh-day Adventists identified in 1960. During 21 years of follow-up, the risk of diabetes as an underlying cause of death in Adventists was approximately one-half the risk for all US Whites. Within the male Adventist population, vegetarians had a substantially lower risk than non-vegetarians of diabetes as an underlying or contributing cause of death. Within both the male and female Adventist populations, the prevalence of self-reported diabetes also was lower in vegetarians than in non-vegetarians. The associations observed between diabetes and meat consumption were apparently not due to confounding by over- or under-weight, other selected dietary factors, or physical activity. All of the associations between meat consumption and diabetes were stronger in males than in females.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/78/1/31?ijkey=21a89ed2132b0f87547ce2a3be3d604b1729e49b

Objective: The objective was to compare the effects of 2 weight-loss diets differing in protein-to-carbohydrate ratio on body composition, glucose and lipid metabolism, and markers of bone turnover.

Design: A parallel design included either a high-protein diet of meat, poultry, and dairy foods (HP diet: 27% of energy as protein, 44% as carbohydrate, and 29% as fat) or a standard-protein diet low in those foods (SP diet: 16% of energy as protein, 57% as carbohydrate, and 27% as fat) during 12 wk of energy restriction (6–6.3 MJ/d) and 4 wk of energy balance ({approx}8.2 MJ/d). Fifty-seven overweight volunteers with fasting insulin concentrations > 12 mU/L completed the study.

Results: Weight loss (7.9 ± 0.5 kg) and total fat loss (6.9 ± 0.4 kg) did not differ between diet groups. In women, total lean mass was significantly (P = 0.02) better preserved with the HP diet (-0.1 ± 0.3 kg) than with the SP diet (-1.5 ± 0.3 kg). Those fed the HP diet had significantly (P < 0.03) less glycemic response at weeks 0 and 16 than did those fed the SP diet. After weight loss, the glycemic response decreased significantly (P < 0.05) more in the HP diet group. The reduction in serum triacylglycerol concentrations was significantly (P < 0.05) greater in the HP diet group (23%) than in the SP diet group (10%). Markers of bone turnover, calcium excretion, and systolic blood pressure were unchanged.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #10666522 - 07/12/09 11:36 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0002934305002792



Purpose

This study investigated the effect of a low-fat, plant-based diet on body weight, metabolism, and insulin sensitivity, while controlling for exercise in free-living individuals.
Subjects and methods

In an outpatient setting, 64 overweight, postmenopausal women were randomly assigned to a low-fat, vegan diet or a control diet based on National Cholesterol Education Program guidelines, without energy intake limits, and were asked to maintain exercise unchanged. Dietary intake, body weight and composition, resting metabolic
rate, thermic effect of food, and insulin sensitivity were measured at baseline and 14 weeks.
Results

Mean ± standard deviation intervention-group body weight decreased 5.8 ± 3.2 kg, compared with 3.8 ± 2.8 kg in the control group (P = .012). In a regression model of predictors of weight change, including diet group and changes in energy intake, thermic effect of food, resting metabolic rate, and reported energy expenditure, significant effects were found for diet group (P < .05), thermic effect of food (P < .05), and resting metabolic rate (P < .001). An index of insulin sensitivity increased from 4.6 ± 2.9 to 5.7 ± 3.9 (P = .017) in the intervention group, but the difference between groups was not significant (P = .17).
Conclusion

Adoption of a low-fat, vegan diet was associated with significant weight loss in overweight postmenopausal women, despite the absence of prescribed limits on portion size or energy intake.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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OfflineAndre Nickatina
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Lennyk]
    #10667718 - 07/13/09 07:49 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


Fructose is possibly the worst sugar, as it not glucose causes insulin resistance. Never in history did man eat so much fruit as they do today, as it is available whenever one wants it. The 80/10/10 ratio from that one guy who says eat a bunch of bananas is insane, carbs are the one group one does not need to eat to be perfectly healthy. Any carbs needed are created within the body and the body begins to run on ketones (the preferred source of fuel for many parts of the body despite the glucose pushers) . Ketosis is only dangerous in cases with diabetic ketosis where ketone levels are far higher than any ketogenic diet will ever allow.





Atleast cite some sort of fact if your gonna claim "fructose is possibly the worst sugar", its just not true. The cause of diabetes is a high fat diet! along with processed sugar. Show me one case of someone getting diabetes from a high fruit diet, please just one. Many never ate fruit in history as much as they did today?? is this a joke? fruit trees used to grow wild everywhere, go to a non developed country in the tropical zone and you'll find wild fruit trees everywhere. Its clear by our natural craving for sugar that we are naturally frugivores.

The key to good dental hygiene is eating atleast one meal of greens a day, don't eat unripe fruit and stay away from dried fruit if you can. Along with these things i try to brush my teeth atleast once or twice a day with NO toothpaste


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Offlineeastuvdariver
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Asante]
    #10668311 - 07/13/09 10:39 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
I agree, heavy processing might be strongly put.

Still, there is no such thing as traditional soy eating. In Asia soy was grown because it fixates nitrogen to grow foodcrops, not to be eaten. Its only being eaten since the 1920s. Its a made-up industrial food.

Raw soy is toxic. It needs processing to be rendered edible. It gives rats pancreatic cancer unless its treated, for one.

89% of all soy grown in the US is genetically modified to allow heavy use of pesticides without the soy dying. Bon appetit :S




>>"no such thing as traditional soy eating"

bullshit...soy has been used as food product in china for atleast 5000 years. the earliest dating of the mention of 'soy milk' as food dates to scripts from 82 ad. which means processed soy products date nearly 2000 years. tofu dates to the second century ad.

>> "raw soy is toxic"

sort of...all you need to do to consume unprocessed soy beans is boil or steam them. boiled baby soy beans are a common appetizer in japan, china, and korea.

>> "it gives rats pancreatic cancer unless its treated"

every study i've read claiming this also notes that the soy consumption vs body weight undertaken by the rats represents soy consumtion far greater than that of people even in the most soy heavy diets.

now i'm not arguing in favor of veganism. personally i think you should all eat a fat bacon cheeseburger with bluecheese on top and get over your (likely fake to get attention) "poor animals" or "sustainable living" shtick.  nonetheless i have to think that, under normal consumption, soy paranoia is overblown.


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: eastuvdariver]
    #10668896 - 07/13/09 12:38 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

But of course you offer no opinion on the massive body of research showing meat to be toxic.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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OfflineAndre Nickatina
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #10673842 - 07/14/09 07:41 AM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Reason why soy is bad.... Xenoestrogen! Its why we have so many "metrosexuals" now a days


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OfflineLennyk
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10681795 - 07/15/09 12:47 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)



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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10684330 - 07/15/09 08:20 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

> Show me one case of someone getting diabetes from a high fruit diet, please just one.

Several recent studies are finding that fructose leads to diabetes at an alarming rate.  Lennyk beat me to references.  Google is your friend.  Look for publications in the last four to six months.

> go to a non developed country in the tropical zone and you'll find wild fruit trees everywhere

And look at the diabetes rates in these countries.  I happen to live in one, and the rates are much higher than elsewhere in the world.  Too many mangoes...

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/37/5/740
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/5/1128
http://www.nutritionreporter.com/fructose_dangers.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSTRE52254920090303


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OfflineAndre Nickatina
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Seuss]
    #10685001 - 07/15/09 10:01 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Several recent studies are finding that fructose leads to diabetes at an alarming rate.  Lennyk beat me to references.  Google is your friend.  Look for publications in the last four to six months.




not one of these studies used fruit they used fructose, probably high fructose corn syrup or some lame bullshit. Again show me one study where they used fruit, also remember most these studies are done on mice not actual human beings


Quote:

And look at the diabetes rates in these countries.  I happen to live in one, and the rates are much higher than elsewhere in the world.  Too many mangoes...




No more like too  many ignorant people that eat cooked fats, most the fruit rots in these countries because people are too busy cooking meat...

Just read thru most those studies, seems like every single one has to do with refined fructose. you can't possible compared refined fructose to fruits... I mean get serious


Edited by Andre Nickatina (07/15/09 10:06 PM)


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Seuss]
    #10685389 - 07/15/09 11:15 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

i eat about 20 mangoes a week. mangoes are dank.


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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OfflineLennyk
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Psychoslut]
    #10688350 - 07/16/09 02:07 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Fructose is an unfriendly component it many european diets, as I believe I mentioned before, 40% at least has malabsorption problems with it. Fructose is fructose anyway, and is digested the same way, filling up the liver and spilling over into body fat all the while making one more insulin resistant.

If you want to eat all the fruit you want fine with me, one can not usually convince someone holding on to an opinion that strongly, I just hope other people begin to realize that fructose is not this miracle sugar.


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OfflineAndre Nickatina
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Lennyk]
    #10688577 - 07/16/09 03:00 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Lennyk said:
I just hope other people begin to realize that fructose is not this miracle sugar.




Refined sugar of any form is gonna be bad, again comparing refined fructose(especially high fructose corn syrup) to whole fresh ripe fruits is ridiculous.


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InvisibleSenor_Doobie
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Andre Nickatina]
    #10688713 - 07/16/09 03:32 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Sure is.  It is not like fructose is the only ingredient in fruit.  There is likely a proportioned amount of water and enzymes that allow the fructose to be dealt with.  This is the whole point to eating whole foods.

To the person making the diabetes claims against fruit...have you seen the numbers of diabetics among meat eaters compared to diabetics who eat vegan diets?  There is really no comparison.


--------------------
"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)


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OfflineLennyk
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Senor_Doobie]
    #10701425 - 07/18/09 09:35 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Senor_Doobie said:
Sure is.  It is not like fructose is the only ingredient in fruit.  There is likely a proportioned amount of water and enzymes that allow the fructose to be dealt with.  This is the whole point to eating whole foods.

To the person making the diabetes claims against fruit...have you seen the numbers of diabetics among meat eaters compared to diabetics who eat vegan diets?  There is really no comparison.





I haven't run the numbers, but meat eater's as a group may eat meat, but they eat much more. Just because someone eats meat does not mean they do not shove down pop tarts and mountain dew.

Vegans in the long term generally will see a greater incidence of digestive problems, especially within the intestines.

Fruit  may not be the worst thing to put into the body, but certainly is far from the best as even many supporters of fruit will tell you that one can usually get much better nutrition out of vegetables.


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