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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 19 days
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Asante]
#10591369 - 06/29/09 08:35 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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> Soy/Tofu appears to be one of those made-up foodstuffs like aspartame that are rendered edible by heavy processing only.
You're kidding, yes? Tofu is no harder to make than mozzarella cheese. Soak soybeans over night, blend them up, strain them through a cheese cloth and collect the soy milk. Heat the soy milk to a boil, let cool to 80F, add calcium sulfate, collect curds, and press into forms.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Seuss]
#10591582 - 06/29/09 10:02 AM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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It sounds simple, and I've seen it done and it is relatively easy.
But you have to wonder who first thought of doing that all those thousands of years ago.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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Stein
Stranger


Registered: 07/02/03
Posts: 35,129
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Quote:
Madtowntripper said: But you have to wonder who first thought of doing that all those thousands of years ago.
I think it was this guy
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Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion



Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Stein]
#10598122 - 06/30/09 02:33 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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So, is it just common knowledge then that meat is responsible for most of today's deadliest diseases or is the assertion just being ignored by everybody?
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Seuss]
#10599001 - 06/30/09 05:15 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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I agree, heavy processing might be strongly put.
Still, there is no such thing as traditional soy eating. In Asia soy was grown because it fixates nitrogen to grow foodcrops, not to be eaten. Its only being eaten since the 1920s. Its a made-up industrial food.
Raw soy is toxic. It needs processing to be rendered edible. It gives rats pancreatic cancer unless its treated, for one.
89% of all soy grown in the US is genetically modified to allow heavy use of pesticides without the soy dying. Bon appetit :S
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion



Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Asante]
#10599946 - 06/30/09 08:02 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ignored then.
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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Hypercube
80 SRM




Registered: 12/18/05
Posts: 814
Last seen: 11 years, 21 days
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You bickering hippies need to get one thing straight. Tofu tastes like cardboard. Meat tastes great.
Adding tofu to a meal is like watering down a good wine. IMO it only takes on the flavor of what it's cooked with and contributes little of its own.
And I gotta agree with runrun here that a balanced diet is healthier than one that abides by strict rules based on dietary ideology. Say all you want about animal products but you cannot deny that they taste fucking amazing and that, if nothing else, is a testament to their benefit to the human condition.
Also, you guys have to come to grips sometime this century that GMOs are not poisonous. 
/end shit disturbance
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers



Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 21,287
Loc: The Ocean of Notions
Last seen: 5 months, 23 days
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I agree with almost everything you said.
I love meat, am a firm proponent of GM foods, and think that eating a balanced diet including animal products is the healthiest way to live.
But I can't believe you don't like tofu.
It's fucking great.
-------------------- After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action. If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it. - Ernest Hemingway If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it. In the law courts, in business, in government. There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent. -Cormac MacCarthy He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God. - Aeschylus
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zathis
Thank you Come again!



Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 145
Last seen: 13 years, 8 months
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I'm an ex vegetarian, but i still love plain tofu, i can just chomp it right out of the carton
-------------------- yay no more peen spam!
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Quote:
Tofu tastes like cardboard. Meat tastes great.
Nonsense, Tofu is yummy, it just isn't that healthy and shouldn't be looked at as a meat replacement, but as a cheese replacement.
Dice unpeeled potatoes, tofu, paprika, onions, bake and add some salt and cayenne... Tasty shit!
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion



Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
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Quote:
Hypercube said:
And I gotta agree with runrun here that a balanced diet is healthier than one that abides by strict rules based on dietary ideology. Say all you want about animal products but you cannot deny that they taste fucking amazing and that, if nothing else, is a testament to their benefit to the human condition.
You can agree with someone all you want but that doesn't make it true. A safe amount of animal fat and protien is around 14 percent of total caloric intake, and only then if the rest of your calories come from whole grains, fruits, and vegetables.
People who eat that much are far and away healthier than people who eat more. So, if that's what you mean by "balance", you are correct.
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/112672327/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0
"The 1978-1979 mortality rates for cancers of the breast, prostate, ovary, and colon in 26 to 30 countries were related to the average 1979-1981 food availability data published by the United Nations. The previously described relationship between breast cancer mortality rates and animal fat consumption continues to be evident, and applies also to the other three tumor types. The correlation with breast cancer was particularly strong in postmenopausal women. Since 1964, particularly notable increases in both breast cancer mortality rate and dietary fat intake have occurred in those countries with a relatively low breast cancer risk. The international comparisons support evidence from animal experiments that diets in which olive oil is a major source of fat are associated with reduced breast cancer risk."
http://www.jstor.org/pss/3702827
"Whereas case-control studies have been very consistent in suggesting a positive association between intake of dietary fat, especially animal fat, and prostate cancer, the results from past cohort studies have been mostly inconclusive. In this study, we evaluated consumption of high-fat animal products, raw vegetables, and fresh fruits, as well as obesity, smoking, and drinking, in relation to subsequent occurrence of prostate cancer. We studied a cohort of 20,316 men of various ethnicities interviewed between 1975 and 1980 in Hawaii. As of December 1989, 198 incident cases with invasive prostate cancer were identified by computer-assisted linkage of this cohort to the statewide Surveillance, Epidemiology, and End Results registry. Relative risks (RRs) for prostate cancer computed by proportional hazards regression were elevated for intake of beef [RR for highest to lowest tertile of intake = 1.6; 95% confidence interval (CI) = 1.1-2.4] and milk (RR = 1.4; 95% CI = 1.0-2.1), and for a summary variable for intake of high-fat animal products (RR = 1.6; 95% CI = 1.0-2.4). Weight was not consistently associated with prostate cancer, but there was an association with height (>167 cm) (RR = 1.8; 95% CI = 1.0-3.2 for the third and fourth quartiles relative to the lowest quartile in height). These associations were stronger in men diagnosed before age 72.5 years. The risk estimates for raw vegetable and fresh fruit intakes were close to 1.0. Smoking and alcohol drinking appeared to be unrelated to risk. This study provides further evidence for a role of animal fat in the etiology of prostate cancer and indicates that it may act by shortening the latency period of the disease."
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/63/5/741
"We examined the correlation between the incidence of Crohn disease and dietary change in a relatively homogeneous Japanese population. The incidence and daily intake of each dietary component were compared annually from 1966 to 1985. The univariate analysis showed that the increased incidence of Crohn disease was strongly (P < 0.001) correlated with increased dietary intake of total fat (r = 0.919). animal fat (r = 0.880), n-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids (r = 0.883), animal protein (r = 0.908), milk protein (r = 0.924), and the ratio of n-6 to n-3 fatty acid intake (r = 0.792). It was less correlated with intake of total protein (r = 0.482, P < 0.05), was not correlated with intake of fish protein (r = 0.055, P > 0.1), and was inversely correlated with intake of vegetable protein (r = -0.941, P < 0.001)"
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/ajcn;73/1/118
"A high ratio of dietary animal to vegetable protein increases the rate of bone loss and the risk of fracture in postmenopausal women"
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion



Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
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More:
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1667679
"Investigators collected and analyzed mortality data for >50 diseases, including 7 different cancers, from 65 counties and 130 villages in rural mainland China. Blood, urine, food samples, and detailed dietary data were collected from 50 adults in each village and analyzed for a variety of nutritional, viral, hormonal, and toxic chemical factors. In rural China, fat intake was less than half that in the United States, and fiber intake was 3 times higher. Animal protein intake was very low, only about 10% of the US intake. Mean serum total cholesterol was 127 mg/dL in rural China versus 203 mg/dL for adults aged 20-74 years in the United States. Coronary artery disease mortality was 16.7-fold greater for US men and 5.6-fold greater for US women than for their Chinese counterparts. The combined coronary artery disease mortality rates for both genders in rural China were inversely associated with the frequency of intake of green vegetables and plasma erythrocyte monounsaturated fatty acids, but positively associated with a combined index of salt intake plus urinary sodium and plasma apolipoprotein B. These apolipoproteins, in turn, are positively associated with animal protein intake and the frequency of meat intake and inversely associated with plant protein, legume, and light-colored vegetable intake. Rates of other diseases were also correlated with dietary factors. There was no evidence of a threshold beyond which further benefits did not accrue with increasing proportions of plant-bosed foods in the diet."
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion



Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
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More:
http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/52/2/87
"Data used for this analysis are pertinent to the issue of energy balance and body-weight control. They were obtained, in a comprehensive study of human diet, lifestyle, and disease mortality, from 65 counties (130 villages, 6500 adults) of rural China (Chen et al., 1990). After adjusting the food intake data to represent a reference male adult involved in the least physical activity and representing the same body weight, total calorie intake (40.6 kcal/kg body weight) was about 30% higher in China when compared with an average adult American male (30.6 kcal/kg bw). However, the body mass index for the Chinese male was about 25% lower (20.5 vs. 25.8 kg bw/m2). Diets in rural China were low in fat (14.5% of energy), relatively low in protein (65.8 g/day), and high in fiber (33 g/day), representing a diet unusually rich in plant- based foods (e.g., including about 90% of the total protein). It is believed that the excess energy intake among the Chinese is mostly attributed to their greater physical activity. However, some unknown but significant, and probably difficult to measure, amount could be due to increased energy expenditure associated with non-post-prandial basal metabolism. This hypothesis is based, in part, on evidence from experimental animal data from this and other laboratories showing that laboratory rats fed diets comprised of substantially reduced intakes of protein consume more energy, but gain less weight. They also exhibit increased thermogenesis, due both to enhanced metabolic body heat and to diet-driven physical activity, while sharply reducing blood cholesterol concentrations and tumor development. "
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion



Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
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http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/106594872/abstract
"In a comprehensive human ecological study, primary liver cancer has been shown to be highly significantly associated with 1) the prevalence of persistent infection with hepatitis B virus (HBV) and 2) plasma cholesterol concentrations that are, in turn, associated with the consumption of animal based foods. In rat studies, aflatoxin-induced hepatocellular carcinoma is substantially prevented by decreasing the intake of animal based protein (casein), a hypercholesterolemic nutrient. Thus the development of primary liver cancer associated with persistent HBV infection or with aflatoxin exposure may be controlled by reduced intake of animal-based proteins. Transgenic mice transfected with an HBV gene fragment containing the viral transactivator of hepatis B virus, HBx, which induces the formation of hepatocellular carcinoma, were used to examine the ability of dietary casein to modify tumor formation. Reducing the concentration of dietary casein to 6% from the traditional level of 22% markedly inhibited (by 75%) hepatic tumor formation in these transgenic mice. Tumor development also was substantially altered by interchanging dietary casein concentration well after tumor development had begun (at 8 months), increasing by 173% from the expected yield when casein intake was increased and decreasing by 99% when casein was reduced. These findings suggest that the development of liver tumor formation among individuals persistently infected with HBV may be controlled by minimizing or eliminating the intake of animal protein-based foods."
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion



Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
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-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
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Chespirito
Stranger


Registered: 02/13/09
Posts: 3,259
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Asante]
#10603423 - 07/01/09 12:53 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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According to wikipedia tofu and soybeans have each been eaten in various forms for thousands of years. Im not sure why you are acting like its some new food product
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Riboflavin



Registered: 03/05/05
Posts: 1,388
Loc: Midwestish
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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I also thought tofu was a fairly old product also and not something new. I like it alongside steak on mushroom stroganoff. edit: here's what wiki said (right or wrong) Quote:
Tofu originated in ancient China,[1] although little else is known about the exact historic origins of tofu and its method of production. While there are many theories regarding tofu's origins, historical information is scarce enough as to relegate the status of most theories to either speculation or legend. Like the origins of cheese and butter, the exact origin of tofu production may never be known or proven.
What is known is that tofu production is an ancient technique. Tofu was widely consumed in ancient China, and techniques for its production and preparation were eventually spread to many other parts of Asia.
-------------------- All that groks is God.
Edited by Riboflavin (07/05/09 12:36 PM)
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Etherealfeeling
invisible suture



Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 880
Loc: Sleepless City Treno
Last seen: 4 years, 4 months
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I haven't noticed any negative side effects of eating tofu or drinking soy milk yet and it's been 2 years.
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Mr.Al
Alphabet soup



Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 5,388
Loc: N.S.A. D.C.
Last seen: 30 days, 23 hours
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I don't eat it because I am concerned it will fuck (no pun intended?) with my balls.
I don't eat meat unless myself or a friend killed it.
Hunting F.T.W.
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Lennyk
D-O-L-E Dole


Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 2,385
Loc: Near the Ground
Last seen: 12 years, 6 months
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Re: Go Vegan [Re: Mr.Al]
#10626768 - 07/05/09 08:19 PM (14 years, 6 months ago) |
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I eat over a pound of meat easily in one day, and a ton of cheese!
If you really want to protect your health one need not look further than to stop eating sugar. In fact the more research that is done, the more that is shown that commonly accepted ideas are actually wrong. In fact one reason sugar is so bad is because of the fructose part of sucrose.
Fructose and not glucose causes insulin resistance, and upwards of 40% of Europeans have fructose intolerance, and eat fruit and foods that contain fructose without knowing the damage that is being done unless they are among those effected the worst.
The theory fiber is healthy and beneficial has been debunked by Australian studies that showed it did not prevent colon cancer (and other studies have shown it helps promote it do to the inflammation and nutrient deficiencies it can cause). The theory fiber was beneficial is odd, as when colon cells were damaged they exuded mucus until healed. Fiber causes mucus to be released (as it damages the wall it scrapes) and it was believed somehow that it promoted the healing process that way. This mucus may help slides things out, but it inflames the colon, prevents nutrients from being absorbed, helps escort nutrients out quicker, and other problems with the colon.
Gluten in grains is a problem to those even without celiac disease, as it may not cause immediate death or horrible recognizable problems, but minor issues such as acne to complicated medical problems can be linked to it in many individuals sensitive to it. Grains generally are too high in fiber, too low in vital minerals, or refined and 'enriched', or made into breakfast cereals and coated with sugar.
Potatoes get a bad rap from both the low carb and high carb crowd alike, but out of the carbs on can consume, it is nutrient dense, low in fiber (although pushed as high fiber sometimes) cheap and easy to make into dishes. As starch is glucose solely it does not cause insulin resistance as a breakfast cereal would loaded with sugar, or high fructose corn syrup.
Fats and meat get a bad rap, but saturated fat does not and never will cause the diseases polyunsaturated fats do. Granted a certain amount of polyunsaturated fat is needed in omega 3/6 in unoxidized forms (fish oil supplements refrigerated and evening primose oil or borage oil). Cultures have eaten saturated fats without problems, and certain tropical tribes have gotten 50% of their calories from saturated fat in the form of coconut oil with no heart disease. Not until these 'heart healthy' fats come into play do we see such problems.
If you truly want to do the simple and enjoyable changes to ones diet, simply make and eat your own real food. Don't use sugar insanely (sure in a sauce it could be needed if you can't use stevia) and limit your intake of sugar as much as you can. Don't cook or consume vegetable oil (aka soybean oil, as who would press oil from broccoli?) and don't cook in any fat that is not saturated to avoid as much oxidative damage as possible. One other thing to help avoid the problems later found in life, get enough sunlight or vitamin D supplementation (5k iu a day supplement if you can't get sun) as a strong scientific backing is showing the first step to cancer is problems with cell communications due to vitamin D deficiency. Don't burn in the sun, but don't use sunscreen unless you have to, and when you do use coconut oil or other natural sun protectant or otherwise you just load yourself up with more chemicals.
If you want to argue any points in the post I made you may want to PM me if I do not respond as I do not go in this forum often.
To at least add a point of relevancy, soy is not a health food, vegetarianism doesn't offer benefits over meat eating (and if eating soy instead of real meat it is worse) and if you want to be vegetarian because of whatever 'morals' one may have, I don't care, just don't claim it is the cure to disease with your magical soy products.
-------------------- Stealth Lighting Cubensis benefits beyond cluster headaches Mush Extract! (You can even use Vinegar!) Flame your needle in style with a sexy mini butane torch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What happens in the Romper Room, stays in the Romper Room. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ All posts are written by the sex deprived helper monkey Curious George.
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