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veda_sticks
Cultivator
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK
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Fresh v Dried
#9482020 - 12/23/08 07:07 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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We all know that for the most part potency is ginetic. Also that drying properly should retain potency and proper storage should retain potency for long term.
But
On another forum theres an interesting debate going on about fresh v dried. No doubt that dried shrooms are potent, though some people suggest you have to eat a little more dried to get the same effect as fresh. For example upto 3 grams compared to 15 grams fresh.
Someone posted this
Quote:
Dried fruits loose potency when dried, they also convert everything to psilocybin, and leave behind no psilocin, which is the better of the two. It also destroys any traces of baeocystin, which really drives up the visuals.
So, by law of average, you'll have to consume more of the fungal matter to get a good trip. Psilocin and baeocystin go straight to the dome, Psilocybin has to go through the liver, be converted to psilocyin, and you have 100% loss of baeocystin due to the drying process.
This is why I prefer wet fruits over dry fruits..
WEt fruits:
have absolutely NO loss of baeocystin, (cubes do have trace amounts) which is a huge plus. The psilocyn is NOT converted to psilocybin, so both alkaloids are present. Psilocin is obviously more desirable, and has more of a visual affect to the trip, plus it goes to the dome directly, then psilocybin isn't all bad, and it takes just a LITTLE longer to get through the liver then to the blood brain barrier, across the synapses, then to the htp mu receptors. lol.
Because the wet fruit hasn't been dried, it isn't exposed to any kind of degradation, meaning the most alkaloids possible are present, THIS MEANS,
you consume LESS fungal matter.
I would only consume 14 grams wet of ANY strain. I usually find my self in a GREAT position tripping really good and hard, very visual, very strong.
I will consume up to 3 grams of dry mushrooms at one time, and usually wish i had eaten JUST A TOUCH more, but glad i didnt, because yes, i'm still having a blast, but just wish it'd be a touch more intense.
just my two cents, i think it makes sense, haven't eaten in a while i haven't tripped since. time to go smoke some sense. then light some 'cense.
Quote:
Baeocystin is only present in VERY minute amounts in very FEW strains, and it's VERY LITTLE of it,. like 0.02mg per gram of fungal mass. but in contrast to the amount of baeocystin to affect a trip, that's enough per gram to make a big difference.
However, drying completely negates the baeocystin, which is why already, wet is better!
cubes usually have only TRACE amounts of baeocystin. TRACE compared to azures, where there is more baeocystin then tehre is anything els.e
from what i know and have seen from paper gc/ms these strains I KNOW have trace amounts of Baeocystin
Penis Envy Albino Penis Envy F+ PalenqUE oAK
Whats do yo all think.
I have only tried dried a few times, wasnt very visual compared to fresh, though it was multispore growth so could have been that.
Whats all your experiences between fresh/dried . Anyone working from isolated cultures and compare fresh and dried?
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Nibin
Getting there
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Genetic Veda, Genetic. With a E
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J3illy
Trainee
Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 3,344
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Re: Fresh v Dried [Re: Nibin]
#9482233 - 12/23/08 08:58 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I got into a huge argument last week about this w/ someone, who was saying there is "No potency loss whatsoever", and was actually advising dry vs. fresh. I don't think the part about all the psilocin getting converted to psilocybin is true - but there's accepted numbers for typical drying of cubes.
It's reported that you lose an average of 20% of the psilocybin, and since psilocin is so unstable, you lose about 50% of that. But the thing w/ cubes, they contain alot more psilobyin than psilocin to begin with - so the total loss of actives w/ normal drying would be like 25%. I've also read info that says in the 1st flush, there's very little to no psilocin at all - and it increases in 2nd/3rd flushes.
Now these losses really aren't much that someone would experience a noticeable difference IMO - so it would seem like there's not much potency loss. Plus the fact that unless you have a clone, all your potency varies anyways, and even if you DO have a 25% loss, this can be taken care just taking a bit more. But it's definitely fact that you start to lose actives from oxidation immediately after picking them, w/ psilocin much more so than psilocybin - whatever the amounts may be.
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Brainiac
Rogue Scientist
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Re: Fresh v Dried [Re: J3illy]
#9482373 - 12/23/08 09:51 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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They are like 90%-/+ water...
-------------------- Fair is Fair
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Fresh v Dried (moved) [Re: veda_sticks]
#9482503 - 12/23/08 10:28 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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This thread was moved from Mushroom Cultivation.
Reason: Off topic in cultivation. Moved to PE.
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Magic_Hobo
Stranger
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Re: Fresh v Dried [Re: Brainiac]
#9482510 - 12/23/08 10:29 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Could I counteract the oxidation by putting fresh mushrooms into chocolates or something?
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danielx
whatup!
Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 6,500
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i'd like to see some scientific research for those assumptions. Did they post any or is it just heresay?
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Brainiac
Rogue Scientist
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Loc: 與您的女朋
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Re: Fresh v Dried [Re: danielx]
#9482647 - 12/23/08 11:02 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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The TMC and GM&MM..
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J3illy
Trainee
Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 3,344
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Quote:
Magic_Hobo said: Could I counteract the oxidation by putting fresh mushrooms into chocolates or something?
I don't believe so. Oxidation of the psilocin apparently happens from not only oxygen in the air - but also oxygen molecules already in the mushrooms [was reading something like this in Advanced]. The only way around the commencement of oxidation is to immediately freeze dry them upon harvesting and keeping them frozen. The equipment required for this is pretty damn expensive I think.
And about evidence of the loss of actives of drying - well it's common knowledge, just search google for "psilocbyin drying loss" or "psilocin drying loss", and you'll see tons of hits.
I personally got the 20% psilocybin loss and 50% psilocin loss from this link right here. On the right, it explains what the typical drying losses are, by saying multiply psilocyin by 0.8 [or 80% of psilcobyin is kept], and multiply psilocin by 0.5, etc. I've actually noticed some bugs in the calculator tho, and it should actually give a higher # for the dried dosage [based on the conversions it's supposedly using]
http://www.shroomery.org/6257/Magic-Mushroom-Dosage-Calculator
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one more
Want another?
Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 14
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Re: Fresh v Dried [Re: J3illy]
#9482747 - 12/23/08 11:30 AM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't know about the potency of fresh vs. dry mushrooms since I've never had the chance to try fruits from the same flush both ways.
But I do know this:
Fresh mushrooms completely wrecked my stomach for the 24 hours after I came down from my trip. It was pure agony.
If I ever ingest fresh mushies again, it'll be in tea.
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TeamAmerica
Registered: 12/02/08
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Re: Fresh v Dried [Re: one more]
#9482935 - 12/23/08 12:09 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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I dont know if you can grind fresh mushies down into a tea...
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acidbase
Virtually Inverted
Registered: 10/30/08
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sounds like rubbish to me.
I would love to see the systematic study on alkaloid content that has lead to this miraculous conclusion....
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krypto2000
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Quote:
TeamAmerica said: I dont know if you can grind fresh mushies down into a tea...
I don't see why not. What I'd do is put my mushies in a magic bullet and make mushrooms mush. Then just add your boiling/warm water to that, wait and strain. Add w/e to mask the taste and drink.
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veda_sticks
Cultivator
Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Fresh v Dried [Re: one more]
#9485023 - 12/23/08 06:58 PM (15 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
one more said: I don't know about the potency of fresh vs. dry mushrooms since I've never had the chance to try fruits from the same flush both ways.
But I do know this:
Fresh mushrooms completely wrecked my stomach for the 24 hours after I came down from my trip. It was pure agony.
If I ever ingest fresh mushies again, it'll be in tea.
Some poeple are unlucky with that, i can eat them fresh with little to know stomach discomfort, yet with BHWR seeds it kills me.
Not sure where he got his infomration, he does no his stuff though, not saying he is right or wrong. Just like to see the discussion on a much larger forum (original forum post is still in its infant stages)
What interests me is the beascin, which is an active chemical also in most cubes.
Has anyone who has isolated strains compared a fresh dose with the equivilent dry dose??
-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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r3nzhe
NNUTTHOWZE
Registered: 06/12/09
Posts: 90
Loc: Psychedelic State
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Re: Fresh v Dried [Re: one more]
#10500135 - 06/13/09 03:03 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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.
Edited by r3nzhe (05/24/11 09:10 PM)
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