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OfflineJSshroom
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Straw Logs keep going green??? help
    #10494235 - 06/12/09 01:25 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I made up a bunch of logs.  I ran one hot water bath after another, and prepared the logs pretty much the same day.  I pretty much worked for like 30 hours or something but I lost track of what straw got done first etc or I would have spawned in that order.

I have inspected the logs and they seem to be going green in random locations.  Not directly related to the spots that holes were made in them with an arrowhead. 

I am wiping the logs thoroughly with alcohol as well as the arrowhead between logs, as well as the drain lid they sit on for the colonization time.

If they were all going green on the bottom or ends or something I could isolate it down but I dont seem to be able to figure this one out.

I previously made up 8 logs and all of them fruited well.  The last two runs I have had a lot of failure.  I equate the last failures to me waiting almost 2 days before spawning after the straw had cooled.  So I remedied that as much as I could but it does not seem to have fixed the problem.

They are not turning green till they are almost ready to pin.

I was thinking that I could prepare enough straw for 8 logs in about 4 hours using the method I do then spawn those and then make more straw the next day and do it like that to shave spawning time down but thats the only thing I have.

I can take photos of whatever if necessary.  The logs incubate on a shelf that is 12 inches off the ground or higher.  I keep the area clean and free of dust. 

any suggestions would help


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InvisibleSubGen1us


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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help *DELETED* [Re: JSshroom]
    #10494541 - 06/12/09 02:17 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

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OfflineJSshroom
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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help [Re: SubGen1us]
    #10494562 - 06/12/09 02:23 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Sterilization of what?

The spawn is prepared in bags and is fully sterile prior to inoculation then resistant after full colonization.  Sterilizing the actual straw and it not contaminating can be done, but in commercial production.  Straw is sterilized outside and then spawned outside in open air.


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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help *DELETED* [Re: JSshroom]
    #10494635 - 06/12/09 02:39 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

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InvisibleCH HELL
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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help [Re: SubGen1us]
    #10494735 - 06/12/09 02:56 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Try a bleach bath for your straw.

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OfflineJSshroom
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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help [Re: CH HELL]
    #10494895 - 06/12/09 03:26 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

what ratio of bleach?

I have been using 1 cup of hydrated lime to every ten gallons of water.  Soak straw in hot soapy water around 130F for 2 hrs, then transfer to lime hot water bath of 140-160 for usually an hr to and hr and 15 minutes.  Let cool then spawn


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OfflineSapient
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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help [Re: CH HELL]
    #10494897 - 06/12/09 03:26 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I wouldnt bleach the straw as bleach would stay in it and kill your mycellium.

Rather add some peroxide to the water you are soaking you straw in, it will kill any spores, but wont affect the mycellium.

Also, you are not supposed to sterilize straw logs, just pasteurise them, and Ill wager you arent getting the straw hot enough, or are not keeping it at the right temp for long enough. Try increasing your pasteurization temps up to around 70C, and keeping them there for an hour or so, keep adding hot water from a kettle.

Also, what sort of spawn ratio are you using?

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OfflineSapient
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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help [Re: JSshroom]
    #10494910 - 06/12/09 03:29 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

JSshroom said:
what ratio of bleach?

I have been using 1 cup of hydrated lime to every ten gallons of water.  Soak straw in hot soapy water around 130F for 2 hrs, then transfer to lime hot water bath of 140-160 for usually an hr to and hr and 15 minutes.  Let cool then spawn




Dont bother with the bleach, you will kill your spawn.

Proper pasteurization temps are about 80C/180F (I know I said 70 in my last post). Heat it up more!

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OfflineJSshroom
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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help [Re: Sapient]
    #10494940 - 06/12/09 03:39 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

You may be right with the temps. I am going off what RR said on his dvd which I will review again, but 180F is pushing killing your beneficial bacteria...microfials or however thats spelled.

spawn ratio is good.  I usually overfill my spawn bags and use about half of one of those for each 20ish inch log by 9 inches round.

I am adding 1 handful of straw then spawn that is set in the center of the log and moved around to avoid the edges.  it really doesnt take as much time as it sounds like.  I can build a log in 10 minutes or less.

Like I said in the previous post they are almost at full colonization before going green so it confuses me as if I did not kill the other spores etc would it not contaminate sooner?


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OfflineSapient
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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help [Re: JSshroom]
    #10494970 - 06/12/09 03:46 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

JSshroom said:
You may be right with the temps. I am going off what RR said on his dvd which I will review again, but 180F is pushing killing your beneficial bacteria...microfials or however thats spelled.





I'd rather risk killing too much than too little. I still think this is your problem, unless you are using contaminated spawn, but since you have obviously been growing for a long time, I think you would realise if you were.

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OfflineT-Rex
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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help [Re: Sapient]
    #10494982 - 06/12/09 03:49 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I found that straw contams more easily than coir. The coir seems to be a bit forgiving during the sterilization aspect

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InvisibleSubGen1us


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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help *DELETED* [Re: JSshroom]
    #10495020 - 06/12/09 03:58 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

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Edited by SubGen1us (06/12/09 04:24 PM)

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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help [Re: SubGen1us]
    #10495113 - 06/12/09 04:17 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

< me breaks out my tar and feathers....


Actually I have read of persons getting good results by sterilizing their straw.  At the very least you need to really pasteurize it.  What you are doing is just warming it up.  I did a few straw/manure spawns back in the day, and I mixed my shit and straw together and then baked it in the oven for 6-8 hours at 170F.  Never really had many contam problems with it.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help [Re: SubGen1us]
    #10495164 - 06/12/09 04:26 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Since it's contaminating in random spots, I suspect your spawn is contaminated.

Don't listen to those who say bleach will kill mycelium. It's an accepted method of pasteurization, and live mycelium can withstand up to ten percent bleach, which is much stronger than any of the teks call for.  Lime is also an acceptable method, thus I combine lime and hot water for great results, as demonstrated in the video.

I disagree about sterilizing straw unless you're going to inoculate and colonize it under sterile conditions.  If you're making straw logs that get holes punctured right after making them up, then you don't want to sterilize.  We pasteurize to kill mold spores, not bacteria, many of which generally survive the pasteurization process.
RR


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OfflineSapient
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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10495304 - 06/12/09 04:56 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Don't listen to those who say bleach will kill mycelium. It's an accepted method of pasteurization, and live mycelium can withstand up to ten percent bleach, which is much stronger than any of the teks call for.
RR




I stand corrected, Ill definitely try it the next time I have a use for the method!

I really thought the bleach would kill the mycellium... Oh well  :shrug:

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OfflineJSshroom
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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help [Re: Sapient]
    #10495855 - 06/12/09 07:24 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

as far as the issue of my spawn being contaminated?

My spawn is all white.  Looks healthy. When I break it up the day prior and then cut the bag open on the day of use.  I am not seeing any discoloration and it smells like healthy mycelium.

If I did have contaminated spawn.  would it not go green sooner then 10 days though.  I am actually now that I look at the timeline.  I am having slow colonization of the logs.  They were inoculated on 5/27 and it is now 6/12 which gives me 15 days or 16.  I have not noticed contamination issues with any of the logs except 1 prior to 2 days ago.

I know that you need to have colonization done in 14 days or at least thats what I have in my mind.  Where the logs are incubating they have space around them and run a pretty constant 72F give or take a degree or two for fluctuation in the central heat and air. 

I compress my logs very tightly.  Could I be compressing them to tightly, or is it that I am not doing it enough.  I am not sure how I could do it much tighter though.  I am arthritic and it caused my wrists to hurt for a week so I was going to get some supports when I do that part of the process.

so one I have contaminated spawn:why is it not going green immediately?

Why is it taking so long to colonize the logs?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help [Re: JSshroom]
    #10495897 - 06/12/09 07:34 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

so one I have contaminated spawn:why is it not going green immediately?

Why is it taking so long to colonize the logs?




The two are probably related.  Most of the straw logs I do are pinning invitro at about day ten.  Other than that, it's just a guessing game.  I still suspect your spawn.  I doubt you're getting them too tight.  Some commercial farms use hydraulic presses.  I usually just use all my weight.  Make sure you're chopping the straw into 1" to 3" pieces.  If it's completely shredded, it's hard for the mycelium to penetrate.  If the pieces are too long, ditto.  The mycelium wants to travel along and through the hundreds of tiny passageways inside the straw as you can see from the cross section picture below.
RR



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OfflineJSshroom
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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10497984 - 06/13/09 02:40 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I use a weedeater to shred the straw.  its in varied lengths from 1/2 to 4 inches.  if I take the time to shred them all smaller I end up with a lot of really small stuff.

any remedy.

I am going to switch gears and make some more logs but inoculate and also inoculate some manure trays as well.  Manure takes a lot less time to colonize so I will see if they contaminate. 

I can take some photos of the spawn etc if you think it would help, or if you have any suggestions other then what I have thought of to continue trouble shooting this.

Oddly enough out of all the logs I have made over the last 6 months to a year.  I dont think I have ever had one pinning in 10 days.  It always seems to be 12-14 before the first pins.

Do you think the spawn could be to old and its just not colonizing quickly enough.  I dont know how old it is.  probably been in the bags no more then 3 months from initial inoculation.  I just made a bunch of them.  I know that you want to keep the mycelium running, but I was having issues with spawn production prior to this, and kept having delays till I got it sorted.

OH

one other variable.  I dont know if its related but I was having a higher success rate with that michaels straw.  The first runs of logs I did were with that expensive stuff before I started getting bales and shredding it myself.  The michaels stuff comes in 1 to sometimes up to 8 inch peices.  I dont think I ever lost but two out of 20 logs to that stuff...I dont really think its the issue but another variable to consider

Also the room that they colonize in has Central heat and air blowing into it with a ceiling fan that runs on low to circulate and seems to keep the room pretty universally stable at temps.  its off topic but would the constantly moving air have any ill effects on colonization.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help [Re: JSshroom]
    #10498544 - 06/13/09 07:19 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Do you think the spawn could be to old and its just not colonizing quickly enough.  I dont know how old it is.  probably been in the bags no more then 3 months from initial inoculation.  I just made a bunch of them.  I know that you want to keep the mycelium running, but I was having issues with spawn production prior to this, and kept having delays till I got it sorted.





That's the problem.  Old, weak spawn.
RR


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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10498742 - 06/13/09 08:39 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
That's the problem.  Old, weak spawn.
RR




i have always wondered about when spawn is considered "old"

because ive used jars that were 100% for 2weeks without problems, but i guess that doesnt already classify as old ? (cubensis)


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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help [Re: ohmatic]
    #10498818 - 06/13/09 09:02 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I've had very poor results from jars that were fully colonized for more than a month.  I'm not sure how the mold gets in there but it does.  Best is to spawn your grains to bulk within a week of full colonization.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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OfflineJSshroom
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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10500994 - 06/13/09 06:57 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

spawn question for bags.  when it looks fully colonized I thought you were supposed to leave it for 2-3 days for full internal colonization?  Or when its all white and tough on the outside is it good to go?


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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help [Re: JSshroom]
    #10501016 - 06/13/09 07:00 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I always go 1 day thats it.
CH

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OfflineJSshroom
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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help [Re: CH HELL]
    #10526515 - 06/17/09 08:33 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Alright here is a spawn related question.  I have been using older spawn from time to time and will eliminate that from my practices.  I still do MS until I get an area setup to do the other work.  almost got flowhood built. 

I did some logs that took forever to fruit then when they did they hardly did at all.  I just looked at it as a genetic issue.  Did using older spawn also effect the Myceliums ability to fruit.

Also when I do all my petri dishes and try out different sectored strains, is there going to be an issue between just doing lots of manure trays vs using straw.  Would the strains I find to be good producers on manure perform differently on only straw.  My manure trays are a jumble of different ingredients including a little straw.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help [Re: JSshroom]
    #10527493 - 06/17/09 10:59 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

JSshroom said:
Would the strains I find to be good producers on manure perform differently on only straw. 




Some believe that, but my experience hasn't proved it true with cubensis.  With shiitake strains, one that fruits well on hardwood logs, might not even pin on sawdust or straw.  Cubes just seem to want to fruit no matter what you give them for a substrate.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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OfflineJSshroom
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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10527820 - 06/18/09 12:04 AM (15 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah that makes sense.  I guess I would just have to see what works well on manure then keep record of that and do a log and see what it does on a BE scale.

was still wondering about the old spawn effecting fruiting q?


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Re: Straw Logs keep going green??? help [Re: Sapient]
    #10570603 - 06/25/09 12:41 PM (15 years, 6 months ago)

I agree 100% with you on this one - his straw is not being pasteurized properly. I have always found EVERY problem when dealing with straw has stemmed from proper pastureization temperatures. Or inconsistent temps - IE, not enough water in the vessel being used to keep the core of the straw at the correct temperature. In all my years of growing - if a spawn jar is white and you shake it and it turns white again in 24-36 hours then there is very little chance the spawn is contaminated.

Properly treated straw is pretty resilient.

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