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OfflineGrapefruit
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Searching for bliss
    #10493798 - 06/12/09 11:33 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

True happiness appears to be something that takes a lot of effort to attain. Is it really worth it? Personally I think there is a wide range of things you can do to increase you happiness to a mostly acceptable level such as occasional psychedelics, getting fit, eating well and doing the things you enjoy. That's all pretty easy stuff to follow.

It doesn't seem worth it to take 3 hours a day to meditate and do yoga or put oneself in a state of social deprivation etc. basically everything that works towards enlightenment/happiness in this lifetime seems to take a lot of effort and alot of time out of your day, isn't it better to just live your life to the full and not really try too hard to be super happy when it isn't that hard to be just about happy enough despite the ups and downs?


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: Grapefruit]
    #10493894 - 06/12/09 12:04 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Why should you need to meditate 3 hours a day and socially deprive yourself?  Meditation isn't truly meditation if you feel it is like work.  Meditation IMO is like a black hole... the more it is practiced the more attractive it becomes.
Daily meditation is important for me in growing my happiness, also being around the people I want to be around, rather than those who impose their negativity.  If I don't meditate the bliss doesn't grow.  The more silence and stillness there is within the more of an open window there is for bliss to flow through.  I could give up and let the thoughts take over, but I know from experience my happiness will go downhill.

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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: deranger]
    #10493989 - 06/12/09 12:23 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I have found I can keep my happiness at an acceptable level without any form of meditation and psychedelics make me feel good for ever growing periods. I used to meditate a fair amount and I'm just reflecting on my thoughts of finding it mostly not that useful. I know a few people who go to fairly extreme lengths with meditation and i just don't see the point in taking even an hour out of my day for meditation, there are many things i would rather do than be sat there feeling peaceful, life is short. Different strokes for different folks though, if you enjoy it then more power to you.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: Grapefruit]
    #10494325 - 06/12/09 01:40 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
I have found I can keep my happiness at an acceptable level without any form of meditation and psychedelics make me feel good for ever growing periods. I used to meditate a fair amount and I'm just reflecting on my thoughts of finding it mostly not that useful. I know a few people who go to fairly extreme lengths with meditation and i just don't see the point in taking even an hour out of my day for meditation, there are many things i would rather do than be sat there feeling peaceful, life is short.




really? meditation has led me to feel otherwise... makes the days seem much longer.  my days are always 10 times more enjoyable after a morning meditation sess as well.  but yeah, whatever floats the bliss boat :smile:

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OfflineRocker232
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: Grapefruit]
    #10494921 - 06/12/09 03:32 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
I have found I can keep my happiness at an acceptable level without any form of meditation and psychedelics make me feel good for ever growing periods. I used to meditate a fair amount and I'm just reflecting on my thoughts of finding it mostly not that useful. I know a few people who go to fairly extreme lengths with meditation and i just don't see the point in taking even an hour out of my day for meditation, there are many things i would rather do than be sat there feeling peaceful, life is short. Different strokes for different folks though, if you enjoy it then more power to you.




Why is meditation any different than anything else? You spend time on the Internet, you enjoy it. I meditate and enjoy it. What is the difference? I can tell you that if I wasn't so addicted and I spent all my Internet time meditating I'd be much happier. Being able to sit there and listen to your mind, the trees, music, whatever is rewarding and it makes the "noisy" world much more enjoyable. Psychedelics are great, but its great because you get to feel what meditation gives you without having to have the patience to get there on your own, keep that in mind.


--------------------
With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: Grapefruit]
    #10494925 - 06/12/09 03:34 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I would think that happiness would take instead no effort. It's the effort to do make something happen that is the problem. And as modern humans were stuck with it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: Icelander]
    #10494971 - 06/12/09 03:46 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
It's the effort to do make something happen that is the problem.




:wtf:

Without any effort at all the result is most likely laziness and hesitation.  How is that the solution to any problem?

Biased load of bull IMO.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: deranger]
    #10495004 - 06/12/09 03:53 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

deranger said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
It's the effort to do make something happen that is the problem.




:wtf:

Without any effort at all the result is most likely laziness and hesitation.  How is that the solution to any problem?

Biased load of bull IMO.





Did I hurt someones little feelings. :rofl2:

Being lazy makes me quite happy. Just laying out under the Oregon sky and taking it all in is pretty blissful.


Of course I do have to make a smoothie occasionally and that takes effort.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: Icelander]
    #10495016 - 06/12/09 03:56 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Being lazy makes me quite happy. Just laying out under the Oregon sky and taking it all in is pretty blissful.




when i'm laying under the sun i can

a) be lazy, let thoughts take over and slip further into unawareness
b) be attentive and cultivate bliss

one takes more effort than the other.

and since when does stating your words are biased imply i have hurt feelings :lol:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: deranger]
    #10495025 - 06/12/09 03:59 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Since you added this Biased load of bull IMO.

to my innocuous post. You're pissed because of what I said to you in another thread and you needed your little payback. :satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: Icelander]
    #10495057 - 06/12/09 04:05 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I'm pissed?

I thought I was high... huh.


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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: Icelander]
    #10495070 - 06/12/09 04:07 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Aside from the high school drama, are you going to reply with something more on topic?
Slippery...

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OfflineRocker232
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: Icelander]
    #10495107 - 06/12/09 04:16 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Since you added this Biased load of bull IMO.

to my innocuous post. You're pissed because of what I said to you in another thread and you needed your little payback. :satansmoking:




Well then someone else can also say that what you said was faulty. What is the problem with life without meditation (or rather some form of it, please note folks that if you play the guitar and devote yourself to it YOU ARE MEDITATING) is that your ego gets in the way of it. You have been raised to look at a material positions and think about your attachments to it, not about the actual object. If you are going to come here and state opinions outright with no knowledge behind them I will do the same.

When I meditate and look at the sky as being the sky and not as anything else, its more beautiful to my eyes than your own.

Of course that's more a potshot at you, I feel a lot of it is true. Sure you look at the clouds, but do you appreciate them? Sitting around outside just hanging around is not the same as being the sky, living the sky. Catch my drift? I honestly feel that people who don't meditate are just ignorant. I can tell you from first hand experience that is changes the way you see the world. That's an opinion from someone who has lived both ways of life, to think that someone who has not even tried it can knock it is beyond me.

Close your eyes guys, its nice.


--------------------
With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes

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OfflineBernackums
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: Rocker232]
    #10495365 - 06/12/09 05:11 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Psychedelics are great, but its great because you get to feel what meditation gives you without having to have the patience to get there on your own, keep that in mind.

Are you sure you're not lumping the entire psyhcedelic experience into that one-great-feeling that you really like about it? I'm not denying that a lot can be obtained through meditation, but psychedlics cause a whole whack of chemical reactions I don't think will be duplicated through thought.

Can I reach the equivilant of a big bowl of DMT? Can I see with such vibrance and definition of large and dilated pupils? Will my brain interperet information in such sporadic and adventurous ways?

Real questions.


--------------------
Let's get the fuck out of here.

Edited by Bernackums (06/12/09 05:16 PM)

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Invisiblerebus_minus
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Re: Searching for bliss *DELETED* [Re: Rocker232]
    #10495385 - 06/12/09 05:15 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by rebus_minus

Reason for deletion: .

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Offlinegodspeedyou
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: Bernackums]
    #10495484 - 06/12/09 05:38 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Bernackums said:
Can I reach the equivilant of a big bowl of DMT? Can I see with such vibrance and definition of large and dilated pupils? Will my brain interperet information in such sporadic and adventurous ways?

Real questions.




I read in a book titled Zig Zag Zen (which I wish I could reference) that someone gave a yogi LSD, but it had no effect on him because he "had his mind perfectly fixed upon God." I believe that achieving enlightenment is in fact like a DMT experience. I've heard stories of pure ego loss and uniting with the entire universe. But what do I know, I've never done DMT.


--------------------
Try to realize it's all within yourself
No-one else can make you change

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: rebus_minus]
    #10495555 - 06/12/09 06:00 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

rebus_minus said:
The point is that meditation happens when you allow for all to be as is. Try it on acid and see where it takes you.




Before breaking through on LSD I couldn't be in meditation without becoming aggravated at some point, though I thought I was really meditating.  Oh boy the self-deception then was immense.

After breaking through, meditation started naturally unfolding, and I started naturally becoming aware of what the state of meditation is behind the label... states of meditation would spontaneously arise and self-realization would be experienced.

Meditation now is not like washing the dishes, it's like taking a comfy dose of DMT.  I WANT MORE.
And when I come out the other side, I am somewhat not of the stick past, which is so utterly liberating.

Psychedelics + meditation FTW.

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OfflineRocker232
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: Bernackums]
    #10495587 - 06/12/09 06:09 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Bernackums said:
Psychedelics are great, but its great because you get to feel what meditation gives you without having to have the patience to get there on your own, keep that in mind.

Are you sure you're not lumping the entire psyhcedelic experience into that one-great-feeling that you really like about it? I'm not denying that a lot can be obtained through meditation, but psychedlics cause a whole whack of chemical reactions I don't think will be duplicated through thought.

Can I reach the equivilant of a big bowl of DMT? Can I see with such vibrance and definition of large and dilated pupils? Will my brain interperet information in such sporadic and adventurous ways?

Real questions.





Have you ever meditated? If the answer is no then I have nothing further to say to you. Do you people real think those who meditate just sit there and do nothing? I have had extremely psychedelic experiences while meditating without a single substance. Add Marijuana to the equation and I have been in some trippy mindsets where I would just watch scenes unfold before my eyes and forget completely that I was even meditating. I have put on music and meditated to it and it has taken me on the very same journeys as mushrooms have. The same intensity? No, but then again I am very new to meditation. I have no doubt that people who have reached jhana and the like have had experiences that rival DMT.


--------------------
With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: Rocker232]
    #10495601 - 06/12/09 06:13 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Rocker232 said:
Have you ever meditated? If the answer is no then I have nothing further to say to you. Do you people real think those who meditate just sit there and do nothing? I have had extremely psychedelic experiences while meditating without a single substance.




Rookies eh.  I've seen by body from above in meditation, as well as huge and colorful mandalas while eyes closed (very close in resemblance to dmt visuals).  Profound things happen the more it is practiced.

You can't know what meditation is until you've experienced it to a certain depth.

Keep on imagining things pplz. (not you Rocker :heart:) You can keep rocking on.

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OfflineBernackums
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: Rocker232]
    #10495665 - 06/12/09 06:35 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Rocker232 said:
Have you ever meditated? If the answer is no then I have nothing further to say to you. Do you people real think those who meditate just sit there and do nothing? I have had extremely psychedelic experiences while meditating without a single substance. Add Marijuana to the equation and I have been in some trippy mindsets where I would just watch scenes unfold before my eyes and forget completely that I was even meditating. I have put on music and meditated to it and it has taken me on the very same journeys as mushrooms have.




Yes I have, please put aside your assumptions. Having a psychedelic experience while meditating seems feasible, trippy mind sets too.
As I previously said I am not denying certain things are obtainable through meditation, but I am a skeptic, and as such I find it hard to imagine the entirety of chemical reactions that result from ingestion of a psychedelic drug can be written off as "obtainable" without that particular chemical compound.

Quote:

The same intensity? No, but then again I am very new to meditation. I have no doubt that people who have reached jhana and the like have had experiences that rival DMT.




You may not have doubt, but I do. Sure, you can go places like psychedelics, they are keys to your own chemicals, it's likely you can use them without said key through mental concentration (or lack there of). It just doesn't seem right to me that one can take the effect away from the cause, it seems it would be a different effect gained through a different process.

I am merely probing, curiously.


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Let's get the fuck out of here.

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OfflineRocker232
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: deranger]
    #10495703 - 06/12/09 06:43 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Are you trying to argue that under the influence of LSD you have more control over your mind than a Shaolin Monk who has spent his entire life meditating? I do not deny the power of psychedelics, but I merely see them as a short cut to the same place, except with a drug you will eventually come down. My second mushroom trip left me in bliss with what seemed like weeks, and all though I do not think that is the longest one could feel that bliss I do not think it is comparable to the bliss a master of meditation feels. I don't want to say its cheating, but I will anyways.


--------------------
With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: Bernackums]
    #10495720 - 06/12/09 06:46 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Is that really important though? 
Quote:

Bernackums said:
Quote:

Rocker232 said:
Have you ever meditated? If the answer is no then I have nothing further to say to you. Do you people real think those who meditate just sit there and do nothing? I have had extremely psychedelic experiences while meditating without a single substance. Add Marijuana to the equation and I have been in some trippy mindsets where I would just watch scenes unfold before my eyes and forget completely that I was even meditating. I have put on music and meditated to it and it has taken me on the very same journeys as mushrooms have.




Yes I have, please put aside your assumptions.




Everyone thinks they have meditated. 

Not everyone enters states of meditation while meditating.

Some meditate for years and never enter a deep state of meditation.

I believe his assumptions are true.

Meditation resembles that of a psychedelic experience, is that not merely what Rocker is saying?  He's not talking about chemical interactions in the brain, that's mundane.

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OfflineBernackums
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: deranger]
    #10495799 - 06/12/09 07:08 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

You two miss my point entirely.

Rocker:
Quote:

Are you trying to argue that under the influence of LSD you have more control over your mind than a Shaolin Monk who has spent his entire life meditating?




No.
Not at all.

Quote:

I do not think it is comparable to the bliss a master of meditation feels




What does this imply? The mastering of oneself is possible and blissful? That you imagine that these masters are in an immense amount of bliss?

I have brought it up on these forums before, but I still do not see how continual bliss is a feasible idea. I have seen no evidence we have enough endogenous chemicals to ride the top of the wave all the time.

deranger:
Quote:

Everyone thinks they have meditated.



I do not think this is true.

Quote:

I believe his assumptions are true.



You believe his assumptions that the populace of "you people" all think meditating is simply sitting there and doing nothing? I do not think this is true either, I do not think this is meditation, and there I have proved it is not true.


My point was not that meditating could not bring psychedelic states of mind and unleash the minds potential, I stated that twice. My point is that while this seems possible, the effects of ingesting a drug are the effects of ingesting that drug.
If you want those effects, you need to ingest the drug.
If you want the effects of deep meditation, and the psychedelic mind states that can arise from it, then you need to meditate.

I am simply outlining the cause and effect here. Taking psychedelic drugs is not "cheating" anything, it is taking psychedelic drugs and that is all there is to it. This isn't a test you can cheat on, there is no desired goal except your own.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: Bernackums]
    #10495880 - 06/12/09 07:30 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Grapefruit said:
True happiness appears to be something that takes a lot of effort to attain. Is it really worth it?




Shooting heroin doesn't take a lot of effort.  And is there even such a thing as 'true' happiness?  Happiness is happiness is happiness.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: Rocker232]
    #10495917 - 06/12/09 07:38 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Rocker232 said:
Are you trying to argue that under the influence of LSD you have more control over your mind than a Shaolin Monk who has spent his entire life meditating?




Not at all.  LSD accelerates the rate at which my self-awareness unfolds when used with meditation.*  Seemingly...

Quote:

I do not deny the power of psychedelics, but I merely see them as a short cut to the same place, except with a drug you will eventually come down.




I disagree.  A Shaolin Monk can never experience the many depths of the lsd experience.  And an acid tripper can never experience the stillness of a Shaolin Monk's mind.  So when used together, daily meditation and psychedelic use, the combination creates a mind state completely different from the mind states of those who solely meditate or use psychedelics.

Quote:

My second mushroom trip left me in bliss with what seemed like weeks, and all though I do not think that is the longest one could feel that bliss I do not think it is comparable to the bliss a master of meditation feels.




This I agree with.

Quote:

I don't want to say its cheating, but I will anyways.




Not nearly cheating IMO.

Edited by deranger (06/12/09 07:53 PM)

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: deCypher]
    #10495923 - 06/12/09 07:39 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Grapefruit said:
True happiness appears to be something that takes a lot of effort to attain. Is it really worth it?




Shooting heroin doesn't take a lot of effort.  And is there even such a thing as 'true' happiness?  Happiness is happiness is happiness.




happiness grows on becoming trees.  is there a limit to which a becoming tree can become?

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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: deranger]
    #10495929 - 06/12/09 07:40 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

What do you mean by becoming trees? :confused:


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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: Bernackums]
    #10495947 - 06/12/09 07:46 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Bernackums said:
deranger:Everyone thinks they have meditated.
I do not think this is true.




What I meant was not everyone who has meditated has been in meditation.  At least the kind of meditation I'm talking about.

Quote:

My point was not that meditating could not bring psychedelic states of mind and unleash the minds potential, I stated that twice. My point is that while this seems possible, the effects of ingesting a drug are the effects of ingesting that drug.
If you want those effects, you need to ingest the drug.
If you want the effects of deep meditation, and the psychedelic mind states that can arise from it, then you need to meditate.

I am simply outlining the cause and effect here. Taking psychedelic drugs is not "cheating" anything, it is taking psychedelic drugs and that is all there is to it. This isn't a test you can cheat on, there is no desired goal except your own.




Guess we are in agreement.

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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: deCypher]
    #10495962 - 06/12/09 07:48 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
What do you mean by becoming trees? :confused:




it was a spontaneous koan that had to be thrown out there.
so you have to answer :grin:

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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: deCypher]
    #10496001 - 06/12/09 07:56 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Ooh, think of yourself as a becoming tree.  I stole that from Lion.

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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: deranger]
    #10496034 - 06/12/09 08:02 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I'm a becoming saguaro.  :sanpedro:


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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: deCypher]
    #10496055 - 06/12/09 08:05 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Go on... :rotfl:

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OfflineRocker232
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: deranger]
    #10496979 - 06/12/09 11:03 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I'm saying its cheating if your goal is enlightenment. There is nothing that is "added" by the drug, it merely brings out what is already there. Its partly why I cringe when people proclaim, my god! "LSD has opened my eyes to things I never knew about myself." Maybe it helped, but it was always there. You could have found it through other means, that's all.

Both are useful tools, but only one has potential negative affects, that's my point. As much as I read I know I am not the kind of person who could take LSD every weekend, I've taken it once and it was so profound that a week after I would have turned it down if it was given to me. I would like to try it again soon though. The afterglow from that trip was amazing, I felt bliss for weeks. But where is the bliss now? Where is that clear state of mind? I feel as if I would have went to that place by my own powers alone that it would have lasted longer. My mind is a far cry from what it was in that afterglow.


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With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: Rocker232]
    #10497203 - 06/12/09 11:40 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I feel as if I would have went to that place by my own powers alone that it would have lasted longer. My mind is a far cry from what it was in that afterglow.




If you think you can find it through other means, why do LSD? Especially if you think the experience will last longer without it? Seems counter-productive.


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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OfflineRocker232
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: Rahz]
    #10497236 - 06/12/09 11:46 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

I feel as if I would have went to that place by my own powers alone that it would have lasted longer. My mind is a far cry from what it was in that afterglow.




If you think you can find it through other means, why do LSD? Especially if you think the experience will last longer without it? Seems counter-productive.




Well Enlightenment isn't my only goal. I love tripping man :heart:


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With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes

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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: Rocker232]
    #10497299 - 06/12/09 11:58 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

It's cool, I just try to understand. If you had to choose between only one or the other, how would you choose? Or, which do you find most significant?


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rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"The object of opening the mind, as of opening the mouth, is to shut it again on something solid." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton

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OfflineRocker232
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: Rahz]
    #10497352 - 06/13/09 12:08 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
It's cool, I just try to understand. If you had to choose between only one or the other, how would you choose? Or, which do you find most significant?





Its hard for me to say, both are very important to me. I am not trying to knock psychedelics in anyway, I NEVER would have even thought to meditate if not for them. The way I see it is meditation makes life an everyday trip, it makes you be able to be amazed by the sky outside. Tripping is just taking whats already there and making it more intense. I have not been meditating long though so I can't truly compare intensity. I will say that meditating while high pretty much feels like mushrooms, all though I try not to do it often.


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With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes

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Invisiblederanger
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: Rocker232]
    #10497600 - 06/13/09 01:00 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Rocker232 said:
I'm saying its cheating if your goal is enlightenment. There is nothing that is "added" by the drug, it merely brings out what is already there.




But what is "already there"?  If you don't know this 100% why make assumptions like this?

Quote:

Its partly why I cringe when people proclaim, my god! "LSD has opened my eyes to things I never knew about myself." Maybe it helped, but it was always there. You could have found it through other means, that's all.




Yes, you could have found it through other means.  But how do you really know the experiences would be the same? 

Quote:

I felt bliss for weeks. But where is the bliss now? Where is that clear state of mind? I feel as if I would have went to that place by my own powers alone that it would have lasted longer. My mind is a far cry from what it was in that afterglow.




If it weren't for acid I don't know if things would have unfolded the way they have for me.  with all the distractions of society and culture it would have been very difficult to grow this "power" that allow for self-transformation.

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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: deCypher]
    #10498480 - 06/13/09 06:40 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I
Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

Grapefruit said:
True happiness appears to be something that takes a lot of effort to attain. Is it really worth it?




Shooting heroin doesn't take a lot of effort.  And is there even such a thing as 'true' happiness?  Happiness is happiness is happiness.




Shooting heroin will not bring you happiness in the long run is my guess. IMO there are various levels of happiness is not just happiness and unhappiness, "true" was a poor word for attaining the highest level.

Quote:


I would think that happiness would take instead no effort. It's the effort to do make something happen that is the problem. And as modern humans were stuck with it.




Agreed I think the human problems are not necessarily things you really need to overcome to live a good life. If you make a mistake somewhere then tommorrow is another day, no need to live in the past.

My point was just if you spend your 7 lifetimes trying to get enlightened. Then, well, you might just only have this shortlived one.

Quote:

I will say that meditating while high pretty much feels like mushrooms, all though I try not to do it often.




I find that meditating produces a dissociative high very similar to how K-holing is but much cleaner and less intense. There is no anxiety, no massive emotional impacts, and it is very like DMT in that you feel like an observer. Very different animals IMO. For me i feel psychedelics help me to confront my fears futher and i learn more from the experience.


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Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"

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OfflineRocker232
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Re: Searching for bliss [Re: deranger]
    #10498729 - 06/13/09 08:34 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Meh, no need to argue this anymore. I love meditation and I love psychedelics. My issue is that I feel psychedelics do have their long term effects. I do not ever want HPPD and a bad trip does so much more negative than a good trip does positive. My last trip is the only reason why I meditate because the amount of anxiety it caused me daily led me to take the step. I did not want to lose my mind so I took greater control of it :heart:


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With Allure I Look to the Sky With Awakened Eyes

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