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THC Titan
Spoonman
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 590
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: pothead_bob]
#10522950 - 06/17/09 10:34 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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pothead_bob said:
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but plenty of kids under 16 simply aren't aware of the direct causation between smoking and cancer, heart disease, respiratory illnesses, and the list goes on.
But how is this bill going to change that? Is a bigger warning label on the cigarette going to stop kids from smoking? Is not being able to buy black-cherry flavored tobacco going to stop them? Is having the ingredients listed going to stop them (btw I think it's a good idea to require companies to list ingredients on products for consumption that they sell)?
Have you seen an example of the graphic warning labels on cigarette packs from Canada or other parts of the world? I have never smoked cigarettes, and seeing them makes me even less willing to try them. I imagine there is a significant disincentive effect on smokers from seeing those warnings every time they take out a cigarette, twenty times a day. Increased public awareness of the health risks would probably cut down on underage smoking, yeah. Carrying around a pack with fucked up mouths and hemorrhaged brains is much less cool than current designs.
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The dangers of smoking get rammed down our throats on a daily basis. Ever see a 'truth' advertisement? Ever take a health class in high school? I just don't see the point of imposing more regulation on tobacco. Especially with such an incompetent organization like the FDA. In my opinion, that $500 million they're going to take in fees would be way better spent on trying to provide more education to kids about the dangers of smoking. That's not to say that the tobacco companies should be forced to cough up such a ridiculous amount in the first place.
Considering that tobacco-related illnesses cost our health care system tens of billions of dollars per year in preventable diseases, $500M is a paltry sum. I'm not positive on the specifics of this new bill, but the revenue from "sin taxes" or similar extra-market regulations on cigarettes have typically been targeted towards youth education and similar programs.
I laughed at the irony of tobacco companies having to "cough up" money, nice one.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: THC Titan]
#10523504 - 06/17/09 12:55 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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THC Titan said: Carrying around a pack with fucked up mouths and hemorrhaged brains is much less cool than current designs.
well Mr. DARE officer, tell us about the hemorrhaging brain from tobacco products
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: THC Titan]
#10523844 - 06/17/09 01:54 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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THC Titan said: Increased public awareness of the health risks would probably cut down on underage smoking, yeah.
Yeah?
Only someone with an IQ lower than a rock isn't aware of the health risks. if someone is stupid enough to not be aware, I'd just as soon they smoke a dozen packs a day. Better they drop dead before they have an opportunity to pass on their defective genes.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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THC Titan
Spoonman
Registered: 03/03/09
Posts: 590
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10523910 - 06/17/09 02:05 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Prisoner#1 said:
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THC Titan said: Carrying around a pack with fucked up mouths and hemorrhaged brains is much less cool than current designs.
well Mr. DARE officer, tell us about the hemorrhaging brain from tobacco products
You get my point. The pictures usually depict damaged hearts, lungs, and brains which are not cool to look at repeatedly and serve as a constant reminder of the health risks of smoking. Take this one for example:
Strokes can be caused by brain hemorrhages; either way, the end result is the same if your brain looks like that (which looks an awful lot like a hemorrhage to me).
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THC Titan
Spoonman
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#10523982 - 06/17/09 02:18 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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luvdemshrooms said:
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THC Titan said: Increased public awareness of the health risks would probably cut down on underage smoking, yeah.
Only someone with an IQ lower than a rock isn't aware of the health risks. if someone is stupid enough to not be aware, I'd just as soon they smoke a dozen packs a day. Better they drop dead before they have an opportunity to pass on their defective genes.
You act like everyone walking down the streets has perfect information about everything they do. For some people, the cost-benefit analysis of smoking permits them to continue that behavior. Additional warnings are a good thing - they increase overall public health and decrease negative social costs.
By the way, if all smokers were just asking to be removed from the gene pool, many of our parents wouldn't be alive today. Have you ever seen a black-and-white movie, or footage from WW2, let's say? Shit, I guess Orson Welles is too dumb to not smoke cigarettes - I hope he dies before his inferior genes are propagated to the rest of us. Christ, that's ridiculous.
What about the millions of smokers in the developing world who don't have access to quality information such as we do here? I guess they're just too stupid not to have public awareness campaigns.
You also overlook the pertinent fact that tobacco companies target a particularly vulnerable demographic, young people, who are often steered by peer pressure and pleasure-seeking without knowing the full extent of what they're getting into. You can't blame that on intelligence, it's more about juvenile ignorance and not being exposed to the correct information.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: THC Titan]
#10524090 - 06/17/09 02:37 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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THC Titan said:
that's so very convincing
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: THC Titan]
#10524105 - 06/17/09 02:40 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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THC Titan said:
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luvdemshrooms said:
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THC Titan said: Increased public awareness of the health risks would probably cut down on underage smoking, yeah.
Only someone with an IQ lower than a rock isn't aware of the health risks. if someone is stupid enough to not be aware, I'd just as soon they smoke a dozen packs a day. Better they drop dead before they have an opportunity to pass on their defective genes.
You act like everyone walking down the streets has perfect information about everything they do. For some people, the cost-benefit analysis of smoking permits them to continue that behavior. Additional warnings are a good thing - they increase overall public health and decrease negative social costs.
By the way, if all smokers were just asking to be removed from the gene pool, many of our parents wouldn't be alive today. Have you ever seen a black-and-white movie, or footage from WW2, let's say? Shit, I guess Orson Welles is too dumb to not smoke cigarettes - I hope he dies before his inferior genes are propagated to the rest of us. Christ, that's ridiculous.
What about the millions of smokers in the developing world who don't have access to quality information such as we do here? I guess they're just too stupid not to have public awareness campaigns.
You also overlook the pertinent fact that tobacco companies target a particularly vulnerable demographic, young people, who are often steered by peer pressure and pleasure-seeking without knowing the full extent of what they're getting into. You can't blame that on intelligence, it's more about juvenile ignorance and not being exposed to the correct information.
For fucks sake dude. Walk up the the next 100 teens you see and ask if they know smoking is bad for them. Please, just kill the ones that say no (if you can find any) for they are truly too stupid to live. Now, repeat this experiment with elementary school kids. Find any that don't know? No? What a surprise!
It was a bit different in the days of my parents generation for then they truly were often clueless as to the effects of smoking. That includes the horseshit Orson Welles example you so disingenuously gave. How does that in any way relate to people smoking today? Comparing the knowledge of the 40's and earlier to today is nonsense. Christ, that's ridiculous.
Also, throwing in the weak example of smokers in the developing world after going on about health warnings and medical costs here in the US reeks as well.
Really dude, this is far and above one of your weakest posts and that's really saying something.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Prisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: THC Titan]
#10524170 - 06/17/09 02:48 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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THC Titan said: I guess Orson Welles is too dumb to not smoke cigarettes - I hope he dies before his inferior genes are propagated to the rest of us. Christ, that's ridiculous.
Jackie Gleason smoked 5-6 packs a day, he died from colon cancer, liver cancer and thrombosed hemorrhoids... surely the smoking would have killed him since he'd been smoking since he was a kid
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THC Titan
Spoonman
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10524413 - 06/17/09 03:26 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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luvdemshrooms said: For fucks sake dude. Walk up the the next 100 teens you see and ask if they know smoking is bad for them. Please, just kill the ones that say no (if you can find any) for they are truly too stupid to live. Now, repeat this experiment with elementary school kids. Find any that don't know? No? What a surprise!
It was a bit different in the days of my parents generation for then they truly were often clueless as to the effects of smoking. That includes the horseshit Orson Welles example you so disingenuously gave. How does that in any way relate to people smoking today? Comparing the knowledge of the 40's and earlier to today is nonsense. Christ, that's ridiculous.
Also, throwing in the weak example of smokers in the developing world after going on about health warnings and medical costs here in the US reeks as well.
Really dude, this is far and above one of your weakest posts and that's really saying something.
Nobody in my family has a history of cigarette-smoking, yet I don't feel superior enough to claim that people who do should not deserve to pass on their genes. Many people who smoke know it's bad for them. As I clearly stated, many people (consciously or unconsciously) follow a cost-benefit analysis for risk-taking behaviors. Peer pressure and corporate marketing techniques (false claims that "Light" and "Mild" are less harmful) can still influence people to smoke for the short-term benefits, even if they recognize the leading causes of death, lung cancer and heart disease. What about the lesser risks that accompany them? The purpose of education, and warnings on cigarette packs, is to raise awareness and create incentives for quitting.
While the rate of smoking in developed countries has generally decreased over the years, it is becoming more of a problem in developing countries. This is not a weak example, because cigarettes are a big industry that play a role in international trade, and it demonstrates the importance of public education in reducing the high social costs associated with tobacco usage. I already pointed out that tobacco-related illnesses add significantly to health care costs in the United States. Imagine the effect in countries with very poor health infrastructure, very poor education, and a lack of regulations in place. The end result is yet another contribution to cyclical poverty.
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THC Titan
Spoonman
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Posts: 590
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10524424 - 06/17/09 03:29 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Prisoner#1 said: Jackie Gleason smoked 5-6 packs a day, he died from colon cancer, liver cancer and thrombosed hemorrhoids... surely the smoking would have killed him since he'd been smoking since he was a kid
Umm...you know all three of those problems are highly exacerbated by frequent, long-term smoking right?
Right?
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zouden
Neuroscientist
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: THC Titan]
#10524441 - 06/17/09 03:34 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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THC Titan said: Have you seen an example of the graphic warning labels on cigarette packs from Canada or other parts of the world?
The Australian ones are pretty gross. Smoking kills more people in Australia than anything else (apart from old age, and drop bears) so they've had these images for years. The entire back is covered.
The images tie in with TV ads they run every few years.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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pothead_bob
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: THC Titan]
#10524714 - 06/17/09 04:12 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'll give you that having graphic images on cigarette packs will probably act as an at least somewhat effective measure for deterring kids from starting smoking. I wasn't aware that was what they would do with this bill.
However, I'm still skeptical as to where the $500 million a year is going to go. That and, I still believe the FDA is in no position to be regulating tobacco in their current state. They need to clean house and show they aren't in bed with big business before they could take on such a responsibility.
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Considering that tobacco-related illnesses cost our health care system tens of billions of dollars per year in preventable diseases, $500M is a paltry sum.
Which is why smokers pay more for health insurance, no?
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but the revenue from "sin taxes" or similar extra-market regulations on cigarettes have typically been targeted towards youth education and similar programs.
Except when they go towards children's healthcare like the last tax increase... really fucking stupid.
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I laughed at the irony of tobacco companies having to "cough up" money, nice one.
pun intended
-------------------- No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge which is itself based upon the mathematical sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519) Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: THC Titan]
#10525367 - 06/17/09 06:06 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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THC Titan said:
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Prisoner#1 said: Jackie Gleason smoked 5-6 packs a day, he died from colon cancer, liver cancer and thrombosed hemorrhoids... surely the smoking would have killed him since he'd been smoking since he was a kid
Umm...you know all three of those problems are highly exacerbated by frequent, long-term smoking right?
Right?
proof?
you know that less than 25% of strokes are hemorrhagic in nature and that smoking only increases the chances of a hemoragic stroke by 50% while things like genetics, high blood pressure, being black, being male and diabetes are far greater risk factors
so lets regulate black people, men, genes and diabetes out of existence in order to eliminate hemorrhagic strokes
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/148624.php
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: zouden]
#10525398 - 06/17/09 06:09 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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zouden said: The Australian ones are pretty gross.
that's like trading cards in the US, are they trying to promote smoking among children or something?
drop bears, lol
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10525420 - 06/17/09 06:11 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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collect them all for a prize
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THC Titan
Spoonman
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10525745 - 06/17/09 06:48 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Prisoner#1 said: proof?
you know that less than 25% of strokes are hemorrhagic in nature and that smoking only increases the chances of a hemoragic stroke by 50% while things like genetics, high blood pressure, being black, being male and diabetes are far greater risk factors
so lets regulate black people, men, genes and diabetes out of existence in order to eliminate hemorrhagic strokes
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/148624.php
Haha, nice back-pedaling, from the guy who doesn't know smoking hundreds of cigarettes a day will exacerbate the risk of colon/liver cancer.
By the way, I should remind you that being black or male are not preventable causes, and I fail to see your point about genetic risk factors for stroke. Why are you quoting an article mostly about genetic abnormalities? Here, from the same site, articles that actually discuss the effect of smoking on health:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/99827.php
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"Of the stroke risk factors that can be modified, cigarette smoking is probably second only to hypertension," He said.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/99828.php http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/72502.php
What exactly are you trying to get at with all of this? Are you trying to say that cigarette packaging's advertising of an increased risk of stroke is misleading? Most people would try to avoid any increased risk of blood vessels rupturing in their brain.
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Prisoner#1 said:
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zouden said: The Australian ones are pretty gross.
that's like trading cards in the US, are they trying to promote smoking among children or something?
Yeah kids in the U.S. love collecting pictures of diseased teeth.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: THC Titan]
#10525946 - 06/17/09 07:18 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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THC Titan said: Yeah kids in the U.S. love collecting pictures of diseased teeth.
Looked in OTD at all? Pics of diseased teeth will be a big hit.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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learningtofly
Ancient Aliens
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#10526005 - 06/17/09 07:26 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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OTD is hardly an acceptable sample of the U.S. population
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: learningtofly]
#10526321 - 06/17/09 08:12 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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learningtofly said: OTD is hardly an acceptable sample of the U.S. population
Don't recall saying it was. Perhaps you could show me where I did?
No? Didn't think so.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: THC Titan]
#10526454 - 06/17/09 08:26 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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THC Titan said: Haha, nice back-pedaling, from the guy who doesn't know smoking hundreds of cigarettes a day will exacerbate the risk of colon/liver cancer.
statement of fact isnt back peddaling and my request for proof is simply a statement to 'show your work', we like that sort of thing around here otherwise it's easy to say just any old thing and no one would have the means to review it and say 'ah, I didnt know that' or 'hey, that's a load of shit'
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By the way, I should remind you that being black or male are not preventable causes
it's unfortunate that you have so little imagination
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and I fail to see your point about genetic risk factors for stroke. Why are you quoting an article mostly about genetic abnormalities? Here, from the same site, articles that actually discuss the effect of smoking on health:
we already know there's effects on health, no one is disputing that as for the genetics link with abnormal genes, just another recent study regarding genetics and stroke, possibly showing that those with defective genes are prone to all kinds of things
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"Of the stroke risk factors that can be modified, cigarette smoking is probably second only to hypertension," He said.
hey... did you know that hypertension is also far more common in blacks, it's sure a damning case against blacks, we should ban them
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What exactly are you trying to get at with all of this?
I'm saying that your argument is retarded
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