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Prisoner#1
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: THC Titan]
#10502335 - 06/13/09 11:38 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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it's already been disclosed and what marketing claim is there to disprove 'light up and enjoy', 'come to marlboro country', they arent claiming cigarettes are healthy or will cure syphilis
http://quitsmoking.about.com/cs/nicotineinhaler/a/cigingredients.htm
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dill705
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: THC Titan]
#10502392 - 06/13/09 11:49 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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The FDA's scientific scrutiny has led to countless approved drugs that have been recalled, killed people, had terrible side effects, and/or greatly overstated marketing claims.
Let's add another to the list.
-------------------- My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end. -Icelander- I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW! ~dill705~
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TGRR
Horrible Bastard
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: dill705]
#10502432 - 06/13/09 11:56 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
dill705 said: The FDA's scientific scrutiny has led to countless approved drugs that have been recalled, killed people, had terrible side effects, and/or greatly overstated marketing claims.
Let's add another to the list.
Fuck that. What the hell is up with you goddamn body-Nazis, anyway? If I want a goddamn cheap cigar, why the hell shouldn't I be able to have one? Because you know what's best for me?
That's bullshit.
-------------------- What can we do to help you stop screaming? Official Mr Shoebat lackey.
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dill705
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: TGRR]
#10502741 - 06/14/09 01:02 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Uh, hey dickhead, if you couldn't tell I'm really not for the FDA. Try reading the first part. Then I would suggest reading the last sentence with a hint of irony. It's not like the FDA is going to take tobacco away, it's just going to approve another drug that kills. Nor did I imply that they should take tobacco away.
What's so hard to understand about that?
P.S. I love me a cigar, or even just some pipe tobaccy. YUM.
-------------------- My advice is to find those things that give pleasure and do them often without too much attachment and relax and wait for the show to end. -Icelander- I like free markets and all. Truly I do, at least in general, but there needs to be some kind of oversight in recognition of sustainability. Life works the same way, on a bunch of sustainable systems. Why not honor what made us what we are and take some lessons? Nature FTW! ~dill705~
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pothead_bob
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: zouden]
#10509148 - 06/15/09 06:57 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
pothead_bob said: And last time I checked, heart disease kills more people a year than cigarettes, so shouldn't they focus effort on that issue before tobacco?
Why not do both?
Because they aren't doing both. They aren't doing anything about trans-fats. Shouldn't they go after the bigger problem first?
Besides, my point of that post was to demonstrate that the FDA is corrupt and is in no place to 'protect' us from tobacco.
-------------------- No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge which is itself based upon the mathematical sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519) Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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zouden
Neuroscientist
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: pothead_bob]
#10509189 - 06/15/09 07:09 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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The tobacco situation can hardly get any worse. If cigarettes were invented today and a company tried selling it, they'd a) be laughed at, then taken to court, and b) have difficulty getting into the market. Most people would ask, why would I start smoking when there's much more exciting drugs I can take that don't cause lung cancer? And they'd be right to ask that.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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Therian
Stranger
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: zouden]
#10510296 - 06/15/09 11:47 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Who gives a shit what tobacco does to you, that's not the point. The point being the government does not own my body, and shouldn't have the right to legislate what I put into it. If I want to smoke cigarettes, cigars, concrete dust, or banana peels its my freaking business.
How much more control and legislation do you people need over your own bodies? Can you make no decisions for yourself? So now the admitted smoker/drug abuser Obama knows better than do you and should make decisions for you on what you choose to put into your body?
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zouden
Neuroscientist
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: Therian]
#10511616 - 06/15/09 03:37 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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The FDA doesn't regulate what you can put into your body. It regulates what you can buy, make and sell.
-------------------- I know... that just the smallest part of the world belongs to me You know... I'm not a blind man but truth is the hardest thing to see
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pothead_bob
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: zouden]
#10516031 - 06/16/09 09:54 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but they don't regulate what you can make. I think the point is that they are interferring with supply/demand. If people want to make cigarettes, and people want to smoke them, where is the problem?
-------------------- No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge which is itself based upon the mathematical sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519) Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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THC Titan
Spoonman
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: pothead_bob]
#10516128 - 06/16/09 10:14 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
pothead_bob said: Correct me if I'm wrong, but they don't regulate what you can make. I think the point is that they are interferring with supply/demand. If people want to make cigarettes, and people want to smoke them, where is the problem?
People have the right to know the health dangers of the products they consume, and cigarette companies for a long time were reluctant to comply with guidelines that increased public awareness of the fact that cigarettes are horrible for individuals and society as a whole. Yes, the effort is to reduce demand and promote overall public health.
The United States has some of the least effective health warnings on cigarette packs of any country. Other major countries have graphical warnings on the front and back, whereas I believe we only have some text on the sides.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: THC Titan]
#10516273 - 06/16/09 10:41 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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THC Titan said: The United States has some of the least effective health warnings on cigarette packs of any country. Other major countries have graphical warnings on the front and back, whereas I believe we only have some text on the sides.
After all this time, if people don't have a clue that smoking is bad for their health then the gene pool is better off without them.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: THC Titan]
#10516348 - 06/16/09 11:06 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
THC Titan said: People have the right to know the health dangers of the products they consume, and cigarette companies for a long time were reluctant to comply with guidelines that increased public awareness of the fact that cigarettes are horrible for individuals and society as a whole. Yes, the effort is to reduce demand and promote overall public health.
arent drugs like LSD, Psilocybin and Marijuana still illegal because of public health concerns, while drugs are being released on the market with side effects that include catatonia, heart attack and even death, seems government has a piss poor track record for public health, maybe it's time they shouldnt be allowed to determine what's healthy and what's not, afterall, it's mostly private research firms that have discovered the FDAs failings, why not let them handle it and incorporate education instead of prohibition and restriction
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learningtofly
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10516366 - 06/16/09 11:12 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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i imagine phillip morris is having a field day with this, tight regulation means that its harder to get into the tobacco market. and what new company is gonna say "hey, lets start selling cigarettes"
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: learningtofly]
#10516434 - 06/16/09 11:25 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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what makes you think that regulation will make it more difficult, the regulations havent stopped thousands of distillers, wineries and micro breweries from springing up in the last decade
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learningtofly
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10516815 - 06/16/09 12:49 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm talking about tobacco not alcohol. Alcohol doesn't have the same social stigma
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THC Titan
Spoonman
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10517507 - 06/16/09 02:44 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: arent drugs like LSD, Psilocybin and Marijuana still illegal because of public health concerns, while drugs are being released on the market with side effects that include catatonia, heart attack and even death, seems government has a piss poor track record for public health, maybe it's time they shouldnt be allowed to determine what's healthy and what's not, afterall, it's mostly private research firms that have discovered the FDAs failings, why not let them handle it and incorporate education instead of prohibition and restriction
Yeah, pharmaceuticals like Vioxx can and do kill people without proper oversight. Drug safety is an important issue. If they weren't regulated and fake drugs entered the U.S. market like they do in Africa, up to a quarter of drugs could be diluted or fake. I prefer the system we have to no system at all.
Importantly, tobacco use is claimed as the leading preventable cause of death in the United States. You can say that people should be smart enough to make the decision on whether to use them or not, but plenty of kids under 16 simply aren't aware of the direct causation between smoking and cancer, heart disease, respiratory illnesses, and the list goes on. Warnings on cigarette packs seem to be effective when done properly, yet there is no private-market incentive for tobacco companies to place them on their own products. In an unregulated free market, tobacco companies could furthermore make disingenuous claims like branding cigarettes "Light, "Ultra Light", "Mild", "Medium", and "Low Tar" that are, truthfully, no less harmful than full flavor ones. But I suppose people should be smart enough to tell the difference on their own.
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THC Titan
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: Prisoner#1]
#10517568 - 06/16/09 02:51 PM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Prisoner#1 said: what makes you think that regulation will make it more difficult, the regulations havent stopped thousands of distillers, wineries and micro breweries from springing up in the last decade
No? You can't just distill hundreds of gallons of alcohol and start your own local business. The ATF will be all over your ass. That's regulation.
I don't know much about the specifics of liquor laws though.
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: THC Titan]
#10521653 - 06/17/09 03:42 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
THC Titan said: plenty of kids under 16 simply aren't aware of the direct causation between smoking and cancer,
but it's illegal for them to buy cigarettes, seems that regulation doesnt work
and no, people dont believe that lights or ultra lights or what ever are less harmful, those few that may, dont need them reproducing anyway
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Prisoner#1
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: THC Titan]
#10521677 - 06/17/09 03:49 AM (14 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
learningtofly said: i imagine phillip morris is having a field day with this, tight regulation means that its harder to get into the tobacco market. and what new company is gonna say "hey, lets start selling cigarettes"
Quote:
THC Titan said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: what makes you think that regulation will make it more difficult, the regulations havent stopped thousands of distillers, wineries and micro breweries from springing up in the last decade
No? You can't just distill hundreds of gallons of alcohol and start your own local business. The ATF will be all over your ass. That's regulation.
I don't know much about the specifics of liquor laws though.
keep up with the conversation, I never mentioned people just jumping in making untaxed liquor and you can in fact distill your own alcohol but it has to be denatured, all you have to do for a distillers permit for large quantities of beer, wine or liquor is apply for the occupational permit, and meed what ever other state guidelines there are for the business
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pothead_bob
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Re: Bill Gives FDA Control over Tobacco [Re: THC Titan]
#10522858 - 06/17/09 10:11 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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but plenty of kids under 16 simply aren't aware of the direct causation between smoking and cancer, heart disease, respiratory illnesses, and the list goes on.
But how is this bill going to change that? Is a bigger warning label on the cigarette going to stop kids from smoking? Is not being able to buy black-cherry flavored tobacco going to stop them? Is having the ingredients listed going to stop them (btw I think it's a good idea to require companies to list ingredients on products for consumption that they sell)?
The dangers of smoking get rammed down our throats on a daily basis. Ever see a 'truth' advertisement? Ever take a health class in high school? I just don't see the point of imposing more regulation on tobacco. Especially with such an incompetent organization like the FDA. In my opinion, that $500 million they're going to take in fees would be way better spent on trying to provide more education to kids about the dangers of smoking. That's not to say that the tobacco companies should be forced to cough up such a ridiculous amount in the first place.
-------------------- No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge which is itself based upon the mathematical sciences. -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519) Speak well of your enemies. After all, you made them.
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