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OfflineDudeyourgone
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Palin: Government wants to 'control the people'
    #10455046 - 06/04/09 04:29 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

(CNN) – Alaska governor Sarah Palin let loose Wednesday on the Obama administration for enacting fiscal policies that "fly in the face of principles" and "defy Economics 101."

In a speech introducing Michael Reagan — the son of former President Ronald Reagan — to an audience in Anchorage, Palin warned that the government is planning to "bail out debt ridden states" so it can "get in there and control the people."

"Since when can you get out of huge national debt by creating trillions of dollars of new debt?" Palin asked. "It all really is so backwards and skewed as to sound like absolute nonsense when some of this economic policy is explained."

"We need to be aware of the creation of a fearful population, and fearful lawmakers, being led to believe that big government is the answer, to bail out the private sector, because then government gets to get in there and control it," she said. "And mark my words, this is going to be next, I fear, bail out next debt-ridden states. Then government gets to get in there and control the people."

"Some in Washington would approach our economic woes in ways that absolutely defy Economics 101, and they fly in the face of principles, providing opportunity for industrious Americans to succeed or to fail on their own accord," she said. "Those principles it makes you wonder what the heck some in Washington are trying to accomplish here."

Though the bulk of her remarks focused on government encroachment into the private sector, and praise for former President Reagan's views on limited government, the former vice presidential candidate briefly touched on national security. She told the crowd that "the terrorists are still dead set against us" and that her son Track is still deployed in Iraq.




I'd have to agree with this.

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Invisiblemofo
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Dudeyourgone]
    #10455054 - 06/04/09 04:32 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I wonder who wrote that for her?

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: mofo]
    #10455069 - 06/04/09 04:35 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

it wasnt obamas speech writers, probably one of her kids

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Dudeyourgone]
    #10455088 - 06/04/09 04:38 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Talk about hypocrisy.  Unless Palin has magically changed to the opinion that drugs should be used freely without punishment, that gays can be married, and turned pro-choice, I'm not where she has the balls to say anything about controlling people.

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10455103 - 06/04/09 04:41 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

"And mark my words, this is going to be next, I fear, bail out next debt-ridden states."

Truly she is a master of the English language.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Invisiblemofo
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Registered: 04/05/08
Posts: 2,232
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zouden]
    #10455117 - 06/04/09 04:44 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

you gotta admit, if she actually did make it to VP, that would have made for some great laughs over the years.  I mean, as long as politicians are going to be useless, they might as well at least make us laugh, right?

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: mofo]
    #10455124 - 06/04/09 04:45 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Well Bush made us laugh a lot but I don't think it was worth it :sad:


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Dudeyourgone]
    #10455226 - 06/04/09 05:02 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

"Some in Washington would approach our economic woes in ways that absolutely defy Economics 101, and they fly in the face of principles, providing opportunity for industrious Americans to succeed or to fail on their own accord," she said. "Those principles it makes you wonder what the heck some in Washington are trying to accomplish here."


"Since when can you get out of huge national debt by creating trillions of dollars of new debt?" Palin asked. "It all really is so backwards and skewed as to sound like absolute nonsense when some of this economic policy is explained."





She's right and Sarah Palin is the only one left in the republican party i have any respect for.

the rest of them are just a bunch of pussies!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Redstorm]
    #10455324 - 06/04/09 05:18 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Talk about hypocrisy.  Unless Palin has magically changed to the opinion that drugs should be used freely without punishment, that gays can be married, and turned pro-choice, I'm not where she has the balls to say anything about controlling people.



This was the first thing that popped into my head when I read the title of this thread. Is this fully retarded semi-MILF serious? :what:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleChespirito
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Dudeyourgone]
    #10455448 - 06/04/09 05:39 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Palin said:
Hey guys remember me?  yea I know im way the fuck up past Canada but Im still chuggin.  Keep me in mind because I plan on running for president, oh whats that?  What is the point of this speech?  Well im trying to distinguish myself from Obama by proclaiming "If Obama says X! Then let it never be said that I immediately did not say Not X!".  Alright yea, I mean Im just up here to babble because news media will show just about anything at this point.  Hey you like my haircut, yea its new. Look at my ass twitch, yea it twitches at times :shrug:  I don't know whats up with that, maybe I should see a doctor?  Oh whats that?  Ha yea I know it doesn't matter what I say, just need to get reported that I still exist.  Yea life's funny that way"




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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Chespirito]
    #10455510 - 06/04/09 05:48 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I wonder why people like Cheyney and Palin still appear on the news, nothing but a bunch of attention whores...



Palin's ass twitches? :strokebeard:


:whacker:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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InvisibleChespirito
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Poid]
    #10455541 - 06/04/09 05:53 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Yea who knew?  I just report it.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zouden]
    #10455604 - 06/04/09 06:03 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
"And mark my words, this is going to be next, I fear, bail out next debt-ridden states."

Truly she is a master of the English language.





*her kids

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Chespirito]
    #10455675 - 06/04/09 06:13 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Does she do this: :ass:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Redstorm]
    #10455770 - 06/04/09 06:29 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Talk about hypocrisy.  Unless Palin has magically changed to the opinion that drugs should be used freely without punishment, that gays can be married, and turned pro-choice, I'm not where she has the balls to say anything about controlling people.




Are you fucking kidding me?  What is the greatest engine for controlling people?  Not dopers (state issue) not homos(state issue) not abortion (should be state issue but is court issue).  Not eavesdropping, not visa denying.  It is the tax code and the forced charity we are getting crammed down our necks.  There is NOT ONE UAW MEMBER WHO SHOULD HAVE A JOB RIGHT NOW.  The UAW pension fund should have no more protection than anyone else's and yet we are paying billions to support it.

The tax code is the single most powerful agency for population control ever invented.


--------------------

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10455780 - 06/04/09 06:31 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Nothing you said there supports your assertion that Palin is not a hypocrite...:confused:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10455787 - 06/04/09 06:32 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
"Some in Washington would approach our economic woes in ways that absolutely defy Economics 101, and they fly in the face of principles, providing opportunity for industrious Americans to succeed or to fail on their own accord," she said. "Those principles it makes you wonder what the heck some in Washington are trying to accomplish here."


"Since when can you get out of huge national debt by creating trillions of dollars of new debt?" Palin asked. "It all really is so backwards and skewed as to sound like absolute nonsense when some of this economic policy is explained."





She's right and Sarah Palin is the only one left in the republican party i have any respect for.

the rest of them are just a bunch of pussies!



Fucking spot on and Australian idiots have nothing to say about it.  They aren't paying the fucking bill.


--------------------

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Poid]
    #10455789 - 06/04/09 06:33 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Nothing you said there supports your assertion that Palin is not a hypocrite...:confused:



A hypocrite about what, lips?


--------------------

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Poid]
    #10455990 - 06/04/09 07:08 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

> Nothing you said there supports your assertion that Palin is not a hypocrite...:confused:

As Governor, has Palin forced any of her religious moral beliefs upon the people of Alaska?  If not, then what is your complaint?  :confused:


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Poid]
    #10456983 - 06/04/09 09:50 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
Talk about hypocrisy.  Unless Palin has magically changed to the opinion that drugs should be used freely without punishment, that gays can be married, and turned pro-choice, I'm not where she has the balls to say anything about controlling people.



This was the first thing that popped into my head when I read the title of this thread.




Really?

that's the first thing you and Redstorm thought about?

drug laws?

abortion laws?

gay rights?

IMO she was talking about Obama bailing out the private sector and using our tax dollars to take over large corporations! :thumbdown:

let me give you guys a secret. Sarah Palin is not the vice president of the united states she is the Governor of Alaska!

But!

Barack Obama is the PRESIDENT of the United States and Obama has promised to help with those very issues you have brought up!

gay rights and the war on drugs.

Obama promised to overturn the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell. :shrug:

Obama promised repealing the Defense of Marriage Act. :shrug:


Obama's First Drug Budget Fails to Shift Priorities
May 29, 2009

"The chairman of a House oversight committee last week chided the Obama administration for failing to live up to its rhetoric about ending the war on drugs and taking a new approach to preventing drug use,

Despite promising statements by the new administration and Director Kerlikowske, the FY 2010 Budget does not reflect a changed approach to fighting drug abuse," said Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio), chair of the Domestic Policy Subcommittee of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. "While there is an increased emphasis on treatment programs, the spending allocated to supply-side initiatives still vastly outweighs the demand-side programs."

However, the FY2010 drug budget, released earlier this month, is actually more unbalanced in favor of supply reduction than the Bush administration's final anti drug plan.


"President Obama is poised to invest more in enforcement, and less in prevention and treatment than George W Bush!


It's hard to imagine ending even the rhetoric of the 'drug war' while prosecuting it with greater vigor than we saw during the Bush years."

http://www.jointogether.org/news/features/2009/obamas-first-drug-budget.html


If you all really gave a shit about these issues you would be demanding Obama (the current U.S. president) keep his fucking Promises from last year instead of worrying about what a Governor from Alaska believes about gay and drug rights.


Talk about hypocrisy.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10456992 - 06/04/09 09:51 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Nothing you said there supports your assertion that Palin is not a hypocrite...:confused:

As Governor, has Palin forced any of her religious moral beliefs upon the people of Alaska?  If not, then what is your complaint?  :confused:



Her religious moral beliefs have nothing to do with the fact that, as Redstorm said, she opines that drugs should not be used freely without punishment, that gays should not be married, and that abortions should be illegal; that this is her political stance means that she is in no position to accuse a member of the government of desiring control over the populace.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Nothing you said there supports your assertion that Palin is not a hypocrite...:confused:



A hypocrite about what, lips?



..about how, for instance, she believes that there should be laws that prohibit drug use/possession, while accusing someone else of desiring control over the American populace.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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OfflineTGRR
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Seuss]
    #10457044 - 06/04/09 09:59 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:


As Governor, has Palin forced any of her religious moral beliefs upon the people of Alaska? 





Closing down the homes for pregnant teens was a good one.


--------------------
What can we do to help you stop screaming?

Official Mr Shoebat lackey.

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10457071 - 06/04/09 10:02 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
"Some in Washington would approach our economic woes in ways that absolutely defy Economics 101, and they fly in the face of principles, providing opportunity for industrious Americans to succeed or to fail on their own accord," she said. "Those principles it makes you wonder what the heck some in Washington are trying to accomplish here."


"Since when can you get out of huge national debt by creating trillions of dollars of new debt?" Palin asked. "It all really is so backwards and skewed as to sound like absolute nonsense when some of this economic policy is explained."





She's right and Sarah Palin is the only one left in the republican party i have any respect for.

the rest of them are just a bunch of pussies!



Fucking spot on





Sounds like they are still scared to death of her. :grin:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: TGRR]
    #10457353 - 06/04/09 10:48 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

TGRR said:
Quote:

Seuss said:


As Governor, has Palin forced any of her religious moral beliefs upon the people of Alaska? 





Closing down the homes for pregnant teens was a good one.





I dont think you were part of the mob that put out many lies about Sarah Palin daily during the election (they were scared little bitches)

but do mind showing me a link?

Like how many "homes for pregnant teens" did she close down?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10457964 - 06/05/09 01:52 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Fucking spot on and Australian idiots have nothing to say about it.  They aren't paying the fucking bill.




What?


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Poid]
    #10458268 - 06/05/09 04:34 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Seuss said:
> Nothing you said there supports your assertion that Palin is not a hypocrite...:confused:

As Governor, has Palin forced any of her religious moral beliefs upon the people of Alaska?  If not, then what is your complaint?  :confused:



Her religious moral beliefs have nothing to do with the fact that, as Redstorm said, she opines that drugs should not be used freely without punishment, that gays should not be married, and that abortions should be illegal; that this is her political stance means that she is in no position to accuse a member of the government of desiring control over the populace.




Wow... read what you said again.  I asked for proof that her opinions (opines?) drive her political stance on issues, thus forcing her moral beliefs (opines?) upon the people of Alaska.  Nice way to avoid the question and declare it so.

The way you boil it down: Her moral beliefs are magically forced upon the people of Alaska, thus she has no right to criticize politicians in the federal government for trying to control the US population?  :rolleyes:

I'm not saying that there are not examples of her mixing her moral beliefs into her political career, but I would like to know what they are before forming an opinion.  People are quick to jump on the Palin hate bandwagon without any idea as to why, other than they dislike her religious and moral beliefs... and yet these same people have the gall to use the word hypocrite.

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10458302 - 06/05/09 04:57 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

> Like how many "homes for pregnant teens" did she close down?

In budget cuts that she made, $5 million was cut from funding for Covenant House Alaska, a shelter for homeless and runaway youth, thus she is "obviously" going after pregnant teens.  :rolleyes:


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Seuss]
    #10458317 - 06/05/09 05:04 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

The only wagon being jumped on here is the "personal freedom" bandwagon that Palin is using to get back in the news. As many others have said, she was hardly a Libertarian when she was running for office, but now she's seen an opportunity to cash in on the concern about the economy suddenly she's fighting for people's freedom from the government? :rolleyes:


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zouden]
    #10458459 - 06/05/09 06:48 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

> As many others have said, she was hardly a Libertarian when she was running for office

And how does that matter?  What I care about is what she has done in office, not what people perceive that she would do in office.  Although I agree that she is nowhere near libertarian, she is a lot closer to the tenets of small government than Obama and company.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10458508 - 06/05/09 07:12 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Obama promised to overturn the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell. :shrug:

Talk about hypocrisy.





funny you should mention that, seems he's completely changed his mind again

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/30834555#30834555

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10458930 - 06/05/09 09:29 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Obama promised to overturn the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell. :shrug:

Talk about hypocrisy.





funny you should mention that, seems he's completely changed his mind again

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/30834555#30834555





you guys sure don't miss any opportunity to bash obama in completely unrelated threads...  so much for helping to keep things on topic eh?


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10458949 - 06/05/09 09:36 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Obama promised to overturn the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell. :shrug:

Talk about hypocrisy.





funny you should mention that, seems he's completely changed his mind again

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/30834555#30834555





Barack Obama:

“Gay soldiers are being dismissed not because the president of the United States feels they should be discriminated against, which would be bad enough. Instead, they’re being dismissed because the president doesn’t feel like doing anything about it.”

:wtf:

anyway forget the facts they would rather get back to ridiculing Sarah Palin....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Seuss]
    #10458952 - 06/05/09 09:37 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Nothing you said there supports your assertion that Palin is not a hypocrite...:confused:

As Governor, has Palin forced any of her religious moral beliefs upon the people of Alaska?  If not, then what is your complaint?  :confused:






That she's promoting crap utterly inconsistant with her actions.


When one appeals to some philosophy that is wildly contradictory to her actions and offers no explanation, it is hard to not view them as whores clinging to whatever in vogue buzzwords happen to score well in the polls for that week.




That palin would have the nerve to talk about shit like this (which is 100% on the money) given her record is quite the mystery.



I agree with redstorm.  Palin has no room to call out anyone on this shit givern her views and (limited) actions.  I could deal with it if she said " well this is what th epeople want and I'm just giving it to them" but she doesn't- she supports prohibition, she supports interference with people's lives, she supports victimless crimes, and she supports paternal governments harrasing their citizens with threats of prison, theft, and miscellaneous other forms of harrasment.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Yrat]
    #10458968 - 06/05/09 09:40 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Obama promised to overturn the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell. :shrug:

Talk about hypocrisy.





funny you should mention that, seems he's completely changed his mind again

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/30834555#30834555





you guys sure don't miss any opportunity to bash obama in completely unrelated threads...  so much for helping to keep things on topic eh?






This thread is about Barack Obama spending trillions of dollars and taking over huge corporations with taxpayers money.

other people brought up gay rights, and shit about Sarah Palin closing down teen homeless shelters....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Seuss]
    #10459003 - 06/05/09 09:48 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Like how many "homes for pregnant teens" did she close down?

In budget cuts that she made, $5 million was cut from funding for Covenant House Alaska, a shelter for homeless and runaway youth, thus she is "obviously" going after pregnant teens.  :rolleyes:





technically she didn't even cut it.

In Alaska, the governor is allowed to reduce spending allocations in the service of sound management and fiscal accountability. To prove his contention that Palin slashed funds for teen mothers, Kane produced the Alaska 2008 budget with Sarah Palin’s line by line adjustments. It is true that lawmakers allocated 5 million to Covenant House Alaska and that Mrs. Palin cut that allocation to 3.9 million dollars. However, what is misleading about the Post headline is that the allocation of 3.9 million is three times more than Covenant House Alaska received from government grants in 2007. According to records on the Covenant House Alaska website, the organization received just over 1.3 million dollars from grants in 2007 and nearly 1.2 million in 2006. Even with the reductions, Governor Palin signed a budget which provided three times more funds than the organization received in 2007.

the covenant house asked for 5 million and she gave them 3.9 million. (3 times more than they received the year before)

http://wthrockmorton.com/2008/09/03/sarah-palin-did-not-slash-funds-for-teen-mothers/


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: TGRR]
    #10459020 - 06/05/09 09:52 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

TGRR said:
Quote:

Seuss said:


As Governor, has Palin forced any of her religious moral beliefs upon the people of Alaska? 





Closing down the homes for pregnant teens was a good one.



Link?


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: johnm214]
    #10459030 - 06/05/09 09:55 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:




That palin would have the nerve to talk about shit like this








THE NERVE OF HER! HOW DARE HER TALK ABOUT THE CHOSEN ONE!

and remember nobody forces you to read what Sarah Palin has to say.....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Edited by lonestar2004 (06/05/09 10:02 AM)

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10459083 - 06/05/09 10:13 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)



the woman's nuts, but she knows how to get the mouth-breathers excited.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Taco Chef]
    #10459098 - 06/05/09 10:18 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

PALIN PIPES UP.... We haven't heard too much from Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin (R) lately, aside from her resistance to education standards and her ongoing efforts to reject energy-related stimulus funds. But rest assured, the controversial governor still has her eyes on the nation's capital.

Alaska governor Sarah Palin let loose Wednesday on the Obama administration for enacting fiscal policies that "fly in the face of principles" and "defy Economics 101."

In a speech introducing Michael Reagan -- the son of former President Ronald Reagan -- to an audience in Anchorage, Palin warned that the government is planning to "bail out debt ridden states" so it can "get in there and control the people."

"Since when can you get out of huge national debt by creating trillions of dollars of new debt?" Palin asked. "It all really is so backwards and skewed as to sound like absolute nonsense when some of this economic policy is explained."

Oddly enough, "absolute nonsense" is one of the first phrases that comes to mind reading about Palin's odd concerns.

Usually, when someone is this confused, he/she doesn't flaunt it so blatantly. Whoever tried to "explain" this "economic policy" to her either didn't do a very good job, or the governor wasn't paying close enough attention to the explanation. (Does she really think the government is spending more in the midst of an economic crisis as part of an effort to "get out of huge national debt"? And what makes her think the federal government wants to "control the people"?)

I'm reminded of a recent item from Reihan Salam, a prominent conservative blogger and Republican strategist, who defended Palin for months, made excuses for her shortcomings, and tried to convince any who'd listen that she's really not as awful as she might seem. After watching Palin's post-election train wreck, Salam gave up, calling her "a clownish, vindictive amateur," who appears to have "undergone some kind of secret lobotomy."

In the wake of last year's presidential election, Palin had a real opportunity to position herself as a credible national figure and a leader in Republican politics. The governor, for some inexplicable reasons, has chosen the wrong path.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_06/018491.php


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10459100 - 06/05/09 10:18 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

what are you talking about?  The complaint wasn't that she was talking about "the choosen one" (whoever that is) but that she's making meritous complaints taht contradict her own positions without any excuse or explanation.


Its the same old crap of "blame the other side" that tries to shift attention from one's ownactions, with the implicit suggestion that if one is complaining about someone else surely they act differently then the complained of actions.  The problem is she is also vulnerable to her own criticism and yet she neither acknowledges it nor explains it.


More of the same- I wish i had some idea of what palin actually believes- its hard to figure it out when she advances no coherent philosophy nor explanation for her deviations from what she suggests she agrees with. 



How you got outta my statements or redstorm's that the problem was her criticizing someone rather than sharing faults with those she criticizes and cynically offering no explanation, suggersting she thinks the populace is too stupid to realize the contradiction, I have no idea.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: johnm214]
    #10459160 - 06/05/09 10:30 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Reihan Salam, a prominent conservative blogger and Republican strategist



Who?  If I have never heard of him at all he isn't prominent.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: johnm214]
    #10459188 - 06/05/09 10:35 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
what are you talking about?

The complaint wasn't that she was talking about "the choosen one" (whoever that is) but that she's making meritous complaints taht contradict her own positions without any excuse or explanation.


Its the same old crap of "blame the other side" that tries to shift attention from one's ownactions, with the implicit suggestion that if one is complaining about someone else surely they act differently then the complained of actions.  The problem is she is also vulnerable to her own criticism and yet she neither acknowledges it nor explains it.


More of the same- I wish i had some idea of what palin actually believes- its hard to figure it out when she advances no coherent philosophy nor explanation for her deviations from what she suggests she agrees with. 



How you got outta my statements or redstorm's that the problem was her criticizing someone rather than sharing faults with those she criticizes and cynically offering no explanation, suggersting she thinks the populace is too stupid to realize the contradiction, I have no idea.




its the first fucking line of this thread!


(CNN) – Alaska governor Sarah Palin let loose Wednesday on the Obama administration for enacting fiscal policies that "fly in the face of principles" and "defy Economics 101."


"Some in Washington would approach our economic woes in ways that absolutely defy Economics 101, and they fly in the face of principles, providing opportunity for industrious Americans to succeed or to fail on their own accord," she said. "Those principles it makes you wonder what the heck some in Washington are trying to accomplish here."


"Since when can you get out of huge national debt by creating trillions of dollars of new debt?" Palin asked. "It all really is so backwards and skewed as to sound like absolute nonsense when some of this economic policy is explained."






Sarah Palin is talking about the OBAMA ADMINISTRATION'S ECONOMIC POLICY!

not abortion.


THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION ECONOMIC POLICY!

not gay rights....

i have no idea what the fuck you all keep talking about?

"I wish i had some idea of what palin actually believes" :rofl2:

why? you wont read it!

you will just start talking about how she is pro life or some other bullshit.....


psssst!!!!

hey everyone Abortion is legal you know!

just because some Governor from Alaska does not support murdering babies does not make it illegal...


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: johnm214]
    #10459200 - 06/05/09 10:38 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
  "the choosen one" (whoever that is)








and i said the "chosen one" not the "choosen one". :grin:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10459225 - 06/05/09 10:47 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I bet he knows who it is, too.  Coy and disingenuous may work with high school teachers, but it doesn't fly very far here.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10459261 - 06/05/09 10:55 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
what are you talking about?

The complaint wasn't that she was talking about "the choosen one" (whoever that is) but that she's making meritous complaints taht contradict her own positions without any excuse or explanation.


Its the same old crap of "blame the other side" that tries to shift attention from one's ownactions, with the implicit suggestion that if one is complaining about someone else surely they act differently then the complained of actions.  The problem is she is also vulnerable to her own criticism and yet she neither acknowledges it nor explains it.


More of the same- I wish i had some idea of what palin actually believes- its hard to figure it out when she advances no coherent philosophy nor explanation for her deviations from what she suggests she agrees with. 



How you got outta my statements or redstorm's that the problem was her criticizing someone rather than sharing faults with those she criticizes and cynically offering no explanation, suggersting she thinks the populace is too stupid to realize the contradiction, I have no idea.




its the first fucking line of this thread!


(CNN) � Alaska governor Sarah Palin let loose Wednesday on the Obama administration for enacting fiscal policies that "fly in the face of principles" and "defy Economics 101."


"Some in Washington would approach our economic woes in ways that absolutely defy Economics 101, and they fly in the face of principles, providing opportunity for industrious Americans to succeed or to fail on their own accord," she said. "Those principles it makes you wonder what the heck some in Washington are trying to accomplish here."


"Since when can you get out of huge national debt by creating trillions of dollars of new debt?" Palin asked. "It all really is so backwards and skewed as to sound like absolute nonsense when some of this economic policy is explained."






Sarah Palin is talking about the OBAMA ADMINISTRATION'S ECONOMIC POLICY!

not abortion.


THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION ECONOMIC POLICY!

not gay rights....

i have no idea what the fuck you all keep talking about?

"I wish i had some idea of what palin actually believes" :rofl2:

why? you wont read it!

you will just start talking about how she is pro life or some other bullshit.....


psssst!!!!

hey everyone Abortion is legal you know!

just because some Governor from Alaska does not support murdering babies does not make it illegal...





I don't care if she's pro life and I've never criticized her for that.  I agree with her opinion on roe vs wade, though I have no idea how she reaches it given her replies to queries thus far.

I object to you imagining points I've not made and then arguing against them as if I had made them.  This is dishonest.  What's more you've declared that I won't read her statements despite the fact I said I agreed with them.  WTF are you talking about?  I agree with soemthing that I won't read?



Then you imagine my response to the as yet unprovided explanation and say "you will just start talking about how she is pro life or some other bullshit..." which is pretty ridiculous.




I have no idea what your going on about except to make a ridiculous defense of palin on grounds I've not attacked her, and then to attempt to make my position look ignorant by declaring I've not read the piece and that if i were to reply to some explanation you offered it woudl inherently refer to her position on roe vs wad which I agree with.



So I agree with her comments, agree with her position on roe v wade, and yet you say I must not have read the piece and would surely take issue with her on things I agree with.  Great.  Like I said, if your going to argue with yourself, leave me out of it.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: johnm214]
    #10459356 - 06/05/09 11:16 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
I don't care if she's pro life and I've never criticized her for that.

I object to you imagining points I've not made and then arguing against them as if I had made them. 


This is dishonest. 


if your going to argue with yourself, leave me out of it.






Quote:

Redstorm said:
Talk about hypocrisy.  Unless Palin has magically changed to the opinion that drugs should be used freely without punishment, that gays can be married, and turned pro-choice, I'm not where she has the balls to say anything about controlling people.






Quote:

johnm214 said:


I agree with redstorm.  Palin has no room to call out anyone on this shit givern her views and (limited) actions. 







sorry my imagination.......:rolleyes:


Quote:

johnm214 said:
she supports prohibition, she supports interference with people's lives, she supports victimless crimes, and she supports paternal governments harrasing their citizens with threats of prison, theft, and miscellaneous other forms of harrasment.





After reading this gibberish sentence i assumed that you meant that she does not support pro-choice. my fault.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10459403 - 06/05/09 11:27 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

its crazy how normally smart/intelligent people i know become hateful and full of RHETORIC when talking about Sarah Palin.

Ive seen them do the same thing to guys like you and Phred over the years here in PAL.

I guess Hate, FEAR, and Rhetoric just go together....:grin:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Yrat]
    #10459550 - 06/05/09 11:54 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Obama promised to overturn the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell. :shrug:
Talk about hypocrisy.




funny you should mention that, seems he's completely changed his mind again
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/30834555#30834555




you guys sure don't miss any opportunity to bash obama in completely unrelated threads...  so much for helping to keep things on topic eh?




we didnt bring it up, we're just applying it to the viable politician

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Talk about hypocrisy.  Unless Palin has magically changed to the opinion that drugs should be used freely without punishment, that gays can be married, and turned pro-choice, I'm not where she has the balls to say anything about controlling people.



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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Taco Chef]
    #10459572 - 06/05/09 11:59 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

novumorganum said:


the woman's nuts, but she knows how to get the mouth-breathers excited.




it simply takes that first step

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10459621 - 06/05/09 12:08 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Seuss said:
> Nothing you said there supports your assertion that Palin is not a hypocrite...:confused:

As Governor, has Palin forced any of her religious moral beliefs upon the people of Alaska?  If not, then what is your complaint?  :confused:



Her religious moral beliefs have nothing to do with the fact that, as Redstorm said, she opines that drugs should not be used freely without punishment, that gays should not be married, and that abortions should be illegal; that this is her political stance means that she is in no position to accuse a member of the government of desiring control over the populace.




Wow... read what you said again.  I asked for proof that her opinions (opines?) drive her political stance on issues, thus forcing her moral beliefs (opines?) upon the people of Alaska.  Nice way to avoid the question and declare it so.

The way you boil it down: Her moral beliefs are magically forced upon the people of Alaska, thus she has no right to criticize politicians in the federal government for trying to control the US population?  :rolleyes:

I'm not saying that there are not examples of her mixing her moral beliefs into her political career, but I would like to know what they are before forming an opinion.  People are quick to jump on the Palin hate bandwagon without any idea as to why, other than they dislike her religious and moral beliefs... and yet these same people have the gall to use the word hypocrite.




Quote:

Verb 1. opine - express one's opinion openly and without fear or hesitation; "John spoke up at the meeting"
animadvert, sound off, speak out, speak up
declare - state emphatically and authoritatively; "He declared that he needed more money to carry out the task he was charged with"
editorialise, editorialize - insert personal opinions into an objective statement

2. opine - expect, believe, or suppose; "I imagine she earned a lot of money with her new novel"; "I thought to find her in a bad state"; "he didn't think to find her in the kitchen"; "I guess she is angry at me for standing her up"
guess, reckon, suppose, think, imagine
anticipate, expect - regard something as probable or likely; "The meteorologists are expecting rain for tomorrow"
suspect - hold in suspicion; believe to be guilty; "The U.S. suspected Bin Laden as the mastermind behind the terrorist attacks"






I never said anything about what she's actually done, but about her hypocritical idealogical/political standpoint; what she's doing is like a pedophile who hasn't actually molested a child speaking out against pedophilia.

I am not talking about liking or disliking her, I am just talking about how she's a hypocrite for doing what she did.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Poid]
    #10459696 - 06/05/09 12:28 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
I never said anything about what she's actually done, but about her hypocritical idealogical/political standpoint




nope, you've pretty much said nothing other than speculated on
her beliefs, does that mean she carries them into politics, so
far it seems she doesnt since alaska doesnt have any laws
mandating a religion, abolishing premarital sex or abortions

does this make her a hypocrite or someone that works for the
people regardless of her own personal convictions?

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10459720 - 06/05/09 12:36 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not speculating on her beliefs, I've derived what I know about her from the news. Again, I'm not talking about her political actions, but her political/ideological standpoints.


The woman personally believes that drugs should be illegal, that gays should not be allowed to marry, and that abortions should be illegal, yet she is criticizing someone else for desiring government control of the populace; this makes her a bona fide hypocrite.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Poid]
    #10459741 - 06/05/09 12:41 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Bullshit.  Most of the people agree with her on those issues except, possibly, abortion.  Hence the people are controlling themselves on those issues, not government, except for abortion, which they are controlling somewhat.  She is also in favor of incarcerating murderers.  Is that an inappropriate government control? 

The single greatest force of oppression in this country is the tax code.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10459773 - 06/05/09 12:49 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

"Most of the people agree with her on those issues except, possibly, abortion."

Then most people advocate excessive and intrusive government control. :thumbup:


"Hence the people are controlling themselves on those issues, not government, except for abortion, which they are controlling somewhat.  She is also in favor of incarcerating murderers.  Is that an inappropriate government control?"

Not everyone agrees that drugs and gay marriage should be prohibited, so not all people are controlling themselves.

You can't compare murder to drug use and gay marriage because, unlike murder, the latter two are victimless crimes.


"The single greatest force of oppression in this country is the tax code."

I suppose that is one of the major forces of oppression, but I haven't looked into the tax code deeply enough to know for sure.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Poid]
    #10459788 - 06/05/09 12:52 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
I'm not speculating on her beliefs, I've derived what I know about her from the news. Again, I'm not talking about her political actions, but her political/ideological standpoints.





that's odd because the news has always been more than willing to
show her personal beliefs, like Matt Damon speculating about her
creationist beliefs or the media claiming she opposes
comprehensive sex ed simply because she personally believes
abstinence is the best form of birth control and disease prevention


Quote:

The woman personally believes that drugs should be illegal, that gays should not be allowed to marry, and that abortions should be illegal, yet she is criticizing someone else for desiring government control of the populace; this makes her a bona fide hypocrite.




'She personally believes', can you show us where she's stated
that abortion should be illegal, or where she's introduced
legislation banning abortions, I've yet to see anyhig in her
actions that suggest she's trying to control the populace, all
I've seen is more speculation from the media

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Poid]
    #10459841 - 06/05/09 01:06 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
"Most of the people agree with her on those issues except, possibly, abortion."

Then most people advocate excessive and intrusive government control. :thumbup:




False.  Is it excessive and intrusive to forbid alcohol sales to persons under the age of 21?  Who the fuck are you to decide what is excessive?  Answer: nobody.  Just out of curiosity, what would you permit? 
Quote:




"Hence the people are controlling themselves on those issues, not government, except for abortion, which they are controlling somewhat.  She is also in favor of incarcerating murderers.  Is that an inappropriate government control?"

Not everyone agrees that drugs and gay marriage should be prohibited, so not all people are controlling themselves.




No, not everyone.  There is probably nothing everyone agrees on.  It is a pointless argument.
Quote:



You can't compare murder to drug use and gay marriage because, unlike murder, the latter two are victimless crimes.



Really?  As long as taxpayers are compelled to fund rehab and welfare for morons there most certainly are victims of losers using drugs.  And alcohol and cigarettes and junk food. 
Quote:




"The single greatest force of oppression in this country is the tax code."

I suppose that is one of the major forces of oppression, but I haven't looked into the tax code deeply enough to know for sure.




No doubt.  One day, if you become a functioning member of the taxpaying class, you will find out.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10459864 - 06/05/09 01:12 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...all I've seen is more speculation from the media





From Sarah Palin - Wikipedia:
Quote:

Palin opposes same-sex marriage and supported a non-binding referendum for an Alaskan constitutional amendment to deny state health benefits to same-sex couples; however, early in her gubernatorial term she vetoed such a bill, citing its current unconstitutionality. Palin has called herself "as pro-life as any candidate can be" and has called abortion an "atrocity.". Palin has stated that abortion should be banned in nearly all cases, including rape and incest, except if the life of the mother is endangered. Palin has stated that she does not support embryonic stem cell research...






It's not just media speculation.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Poid]
    #10459916 - 06/05/09 01:23 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...all I've seen is more speculation from the media





From Sarah Palin - Wikipedia:
Quote:

Palin opposes same-sex marriage and supported a non-binding referendum for an Alaskan constitutional amendment to deny state health benefits to same-sex couples; however, early in her gubernatorial term she vetoed such a bill, citing its current unconstitutionality. Palin has called herself "as pro-life as any candidate can be" and has called abortion an "atrocity.". Palin has stated that abortion should be banned in nearly all cases, including rape and incest, except if the life of the mother is endangered. Palin has stated that she does not support embryonic stem cell research...






It's not just media speculation.




For anybody who believes in god or a soul to support abortion on demand is the height of hypocrisy.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10459921 - 06/05/09 01:25 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

"False.  Is it excessive and intrusive to forbid alcohol sales to persons under the age of 21?  Who the fuck are you to decide what is excessive?  Answer: nobody.  Just out of curiosity, what would you permit?"

So the government's role is to permit us to do things, in your opinion, as if we are children and it is our parent?

Me and everybody else get to decide what is excessive because we all have personally felt the government's excessively intrusive influence.


"No, not everyone.  There is probably nothing everyone agrees on.  It is a pointless argument."

Well my point is that it's not the people controlling themselves because nobody agrees on everything.


"Really?  As long as taxpayers are compelled to fund rehab and welfare for morons there most certainly are victims of losers using drugs.  And alcohol and cigarettes and junk food."

There is a such thing as responsible drug, alcohol, tobacco, and junk food consumption. :thumbup:


"No doubt.  One day, if you become a functioning member of the taxpaying class, you will find out.

I have payed taxes, but I'm still not sure that the tax code is the signle most oppressive force. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Poid]
    #10459928 - 06/05/09 01:26 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...all I've seen is more speculation from the media





From Sarah Palin - Wikipedia:
Quote:

Palin opposes same-sex marriage and supported a non-binding referendum for an Alaskan constitutional amendment to deny state health benefits to same-sex couples; however, early in her gubernatorial term she vetoed such a bill, citing its current unconstitutionality. Palin has called herself "as pro-life as any candidate can be" and has called abortion an "atrocity.". Palin has stated that abortion should be banned in nearly all cases, including rape and incest, except if the life of the mother is endangered. Palin has stated that she does not support embryonic stem cell research...






It's not just media speculation.





that's wikipedia, not sarah palin... read what's now highlighted

this is sarah palin on abortion for some reason she never states
that abortion should be illegal, she suggests other options just
as when questioned about Roe vs. Wade she said abortion should
be a state issue, not something on a federal level


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10459944 - 06/05/09 01:28 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
I don't care if she's pro life and I've never criticized her for that.

I object to you imagining points I've not made and then arguing against them as if I had made them. 


This is dishonest. 


if your going to argue with yourself, leave me out of it.






Quote:

Redstorm said:
Talk about hypocrisy.  Unless Palin has magically changed to the opinion that drugs should be used freely without punishment, that gays can be married, and turned pro-choice, I'm not where she has the balls to say anything about controlling people.






Quote:

johnm214 said:


I agree with redstorm.  Palin has no room to call out anyone on this shit givern her views and (limited) actions. 







sorry my imagination.......:rolleyes:





As i said, the issue is not that she has these views its that she is contradictory without explanation- which seems to presume the public doesn't realize it, more of the cynical two party ploy of complaining about the other guy despite yourself sharing the same record.



And you mentioned her being prochoice- I don't care what she believes, I care what her policies would be.  As a federal candidate I only heard her mention that roe vs wade was wrongly decided, which it was. 


It is not her belief in whatever issue thats the problem, its that she contradicts her stated beleifs so transparently I have no idea what she believes as a governing philosophy.  At minimum she should set forth what she believes and explain why she reaches the results she does when they appear to contradict here stated beliefs.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...all I've seen is more speculation from the media





From Sarah Palin - Wikipedia:
Quote:

Palin opposes same-sex marriage and supported a non-binding referendum for an Alaskan constitutional amendment to deny state health benefits to same-sex couples; however, early in her gubernatorial term she vetoed such a bill, citing its current unconstitutionality. Palin has called herself "as pro-life as any candidate can be" and has called abortion an "atrocity.". Palin has stated that abortion should be banned in nearly all cases, including rape and incest, except if the life of the mother is endangered. Palin has stated that she does not support embryonic stem cell research...






It's not just media speculation.




For anybody who believes in god or a soul to support abortion on demand is the height of hypocrisy.





No.  Recognizing a soul doesn't get you to believing that a soul is present in the fetus and that all abortions are thereby wrong and that it is practical and good for government to ban the procedure.


That's three hurdles you'd have to cross before your claim had merit.


Since nobody's been able to demonstrate when the soul is present or when the life is a person, its doubtful you'll be able to.


And even if everything else is granted, that doesn't per se mean that we can't remove a fetus from somebody morally.  It may mean we can't kill the fetus, but a cessarian type operation or induced labor may be just fine, provided reasonable means are taken to preserve the life of the fetus.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Poid]
    #10459972 - 06/05/09 01:33 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
"False.  Is it excessive and intrusive to forbid alcohol sales to persons under the age of 21?  Who the fuck are you to decide what is excessive?  Answer: nobody.  Just out of curiosity, what would you permit?"

So the government's role is to permit us to do things, in your opinion, as if we are children and it is our parent?




Do you always answer a question with a question?  I'll ask again.  What would you permit?
Quote:



Me and everybody else get to decide what is excessive because we all have personally felt the government's excessively intrusive influence.




Apparently not everybody else agrees with you.  Not even close, in fact.
Quote:




"No, not everyone.  There is probably nothing everyone agrees on.  It is a pointless argument."

Well my point is that it's not the people controlling themselves because nobody agrees on everything.



So unanimity is required for laws?  Because there are a whole bunch of people who think murder should be legal.  They're called murderers.  And rape.  They're called rapists.
Quote:




"Really?  As long as taxpayers are compelled to fund rehab and welfare for morons there most certainly are victims of losers using drugs.  And alcohol and cigarettes and junk food."

There is a such thing as responsible drug, alcohol, tobacco, and junk food consumption. :thumbup:


  Yep, some people can and some people can't.  Now, is it your position that there should be some kind of test to figure out just who can and who can't?  Then we can forbid it for those who fail the test?  Who administers this test and what is failing?  Passing?
Quote:




"No doubt.  One day, if you become a functioning member of the taxpaying class, you will find out.

I have payed taxes, but I'm still not sure that the tax code is the signle most oppressive force. :shrug:




I am.  I have never been busted for anything and do whatever I want but I have been forced give up millions of dollars worth of my property to the government.  Millions.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10459986 - 06/05/09 01:37 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I have been forced give up millions of dollars worth of my property to the government.  Millions.





I'm still being hounded to pay $350k that's already been paid

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10459999 - 06/05/09 01:39 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

The source for that Wikipedia quote is from an Anchorage Daily News article...


She may or may not believe that abortion should be a state issue, but she still is personally against abortions.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: johnm214]
    #10460009 - 06/05/09 01:40 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
...all I've seen is more speculation from the media





From Sarah Palin - Wikipedia:
Quote:

Palin opposes same-sex marriage and supported a non-binding referendum for an Alaskan constitutional amendment to deny state health benefits to same-sex couples; however, early in her gubernatorial term she vetoed such a bill, citing its current unconstitutionality. Palin has called herself "as pro-life as any candidate can be" and has called abortion an "atrocity.". Palin has stated that abortion should be banned in nearly all cases, including rape and incest, except if the life of the mother is endangered. Palin has stated that she does not support embryonic stem cell research...






It's not just media speculation.




For anybody who believes in god or a soul to support abortion on demand is the height of hypocrisy.





No.  Recognizing a soul doesn't get you to believing that a soul is present in the fetus and that all abortions are thereby wrong and that it is practical and good for government to ban the procedure.


That's three hurdles you'd have to cross before your claim had merit.




No, there's just one hurdle.  When does a fetus acquire a soul?  That is the only question.
Quote:




Since nobody's been able to demonstrate when the soul is present or when the life is a person, its doubtful you'll be able to.


  No one has ever demonstrated that there is a soul at all.  Hence it's status as a religious construct.  That's why I said people who believe in a soul.  Not people who have proven a soul exists.  How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?  Answer:  All of them.
Quote:




And even if everything else is granted, that doesn't per se mean that we can't remove a fetus from somebody morally.  It may mean we can't kill the fetus, but a cessarian type operation or induced labor may be just fine, provided reasonable means are taken to preserve the life of the fetus.




Huh?  You are floundering.  As in flopping all over the place like a fish out of water.  Is it murder if you throw someone out of a vehicle moving at 90 MPH even if it is the ground that causes the death?


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10460024 - 06/05/09 01:42 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I have been forced give up millions of dollars worth of my property to the government.  Millions.





I'm still being hounded to pay $350k that's already been paid



That kind of money can make you weep.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10460067 - 06/05/09 02:41 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

"Do you always answer a question with a question?  I'll ask again.  What would you permit?

I would pretty much allow people to do what they want as long as what they're doing doesn't directly harm other people.



"Apparently not everybody else agrees with you.  Not even close, in fact."

Not everybody agrees with me that each person is entitled to their own opinion? :strokebeard:


"So unanimity is required for laws?  Because there are a whole bunch of people who think murder should be legal.  They're called murderers.  And rape.  They're called rapists."

No, you said that people are controlling themselves, and I'm saying that they aren't. That was my only point.


"Yep, some people can and some people can't.  Now, is it your position that there should be some kind of test to figure out just who can and who can't?  Then we can forbid it for those who fail the test?  Who administers this test and what is failing?  Passing?"

:lol:, my position is that I find it ridiculous that people believe the government should have a say in what people put into their own bodies.


"I am.  I have never been busted for anything and do whatever I want but I have been forced give up millions of dollars worth of my property to the government.  Millions."

Fuck, that sucks! You must be pretty rich, though, to be paying that much in taxes.

There are some people who get away with tax evasion, you should look into their methods...:yesnod:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Poid]
    #10460125 - 06/05/09 04:27 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Many of them are in jail.  Making friends.

In the case of drug prohibition it isn't the government.  It's the People who want to tell you what you can destroy yourself with.  Your neighbors.  Busybody fucks.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Poid]
    #10460140 - 06/05/09 05:16 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Poid Said:
The source for that Wikipedia quote is from an Anchorage Daily News article...





but you said it wasnt just media speculation when it's obvious
that a quote from a news paper is in fact media speculation, a
news paper pushing an agenda


Quote:

She may or may not believe that abortion should be a state issue, but she still is personally against abortions.





ok, so just because she believes one thing, votes AGAINST her
own convictions you see her as a hypocrite, she's voting for
what's right in spite of what she believe because she's looking
out for her constituents based in the constitution. I just dont
understand, isnt that the sort of people we need in politics,
people that arent chasing their own goals but instead trying to
bring equality to everyone, trying to stand up for what's right

I guess we see why obama is in office, people just dont give a
shit about their rights, government encroachment or anything

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10460312 - 06/05/09 06:25 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
but you said it wasnt just media speculation when it's obvious that a quote from a news paper is in fact media speculation, a news paper pushing an agenda



That Wikipedia quote is a quote from Sarah Palin herself, are you suggesting that the news is making this up?


Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
ok, so just because she believes one thing, votes AGAINST her
own convictions you see her as a hypocrite, she's voting for
what's right in spite of what she believe because she's looking
out for her constituents based in the constitution. I just dont
understand, isnt that the sort of people we need in politics,
people that arent chasing their own goals but instead trying to
bring equality to everyone, trying to stand up for what's right

I guess we see why obama is in office, people just dont give a
shit about their rights, government encroachment or anything



That's just one example of where she did the right thing, and either way, I disagree with most of her political stances, such as her opposition to the decriminalization of cannabis.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: johnm214]
    #10460363 - 06/05/09 09:07 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

johnm214 writes:

Quote:

That she's promoting crap utterly inconsistant with her actions.




Dude, you are usually pretty level-headed in your posts but you (like Redstorm) seem powerless to prevent a blinding red haze from descending like a curtain between your rational mind and your typing fingers whenever your eyes scan the name "Sarah Palin".

What actions has she taken as governor which run contrary to her statements in the above address? What "big government" programs has she instituted (or even proposed, for that matter) in Alaska which have lead (or will lead) to more government "control" of Alaskan residents?

Be specific.

Quote:

When one appeals to some philosophy that is wildly contradictory to her ACTIONS and offers no explanation, it is hard to not view them as whores clinging to whatever in vogue buzzwords happen to score well in the polls for that week.




I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Quote:

That palin would have the nerve to talk about shit like this (which is 100% on the money) given her record is quite the mystery.




And what record would that be? Again, I want specifics.



Phred


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Poid]
    #10460378 - 06/05/09 09:16 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
but you said it wasnt just media speculation when it's obvious that a quote from a news paper is in fact media speculation, a news paper pushing an agenda



That Wikipedia quote is a quote from Sarah Palin herself, are you suggesting that the news is making this up?





so Sarah Palin now talks about herself in the 3rd person?
does Palin also write the articles for the Anchorage Daily

it still doesnt express anything more than her personal
convictions as told by a news paper and proves that she does in
fact veto bills that disagree with her personal views

here's the quote again
Quote:

Palin opposes same-sex marriage and supported a non-binding referendum for an Alaskan constitutional amendment to deny state health benefits to same-sex couples; however, early in her gubernatorial term she vetoed such a bill, citing its current unconstitutionality. Palin has called herself "as pro-life as any candidate can be" and has called abortion an "atrocity.". Palin has stated that abortion should be banned in nearly all cases, including rape and incest, except if the life of the mother is endangered. Palin has stated that she does not support embryonic stem cell research...




Quote:


That's just one example of where she did the right thing, and either way, I disagree with most of her political stances, such as her opposition to the decriminalization of cannabis.




absolutely, it;s only one example and I'm sure there's hundreds
more to be found, and again you're attributing something to
Palin that palin may well not have said, just as you and major
media has claimed she'd outlaw abortions

I beg you, show me sarah palin saying she'd lock up drug users,
show me where she's made most of these things you attribute to her

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10460484 - 06/05/09 10:10 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
In the case of drug prohibition it isn't the government.  It's the People who want to tell you what you can destroy yourself with.  Your neighbors.  Busybody fucks.




Ive considered this, but I think you might be misunderstanding the cause/effect relationship here.  If you polled Americans when drug laws were just beginning to take effect I dont know what they would say.  Maybe they were dead set against people smoking marijuana, I can't imagine thats the case but its possible.  The other possibility is that over time Americans have come to accept drug laws as part of our culture and as such do not want it changed, as people are generally prone to keep a status quo. 

Ultimately of course it boils down to the average American now likes to get up in your business.  Just interesting to wonder where the laws came from, and if repealing the laws would be a big commotion or if people 10 years later would have assimilated the not having of drug laws.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Chespirito]
    #10460605 - 06/06/09 09:46 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

That the average American wants to "get up in your business" is probably declining.  They used to be even worse.


--------------------

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10460650 - 06/06/09 10:29 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I guess Hate, FEAR, and Rhetoric just go together....:grin:




You should know all about this.  You have been voting for the fearmongerers for awhile.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Phred]
    #10460657 - 06/06/09 10:38 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Dude, you are usually pretty level-headed in your posts but you (like Redstorm) seem powerless to prevent a blinding red haze from descending like a curtain between your rational mind and your typing fingers whenever your eyes scan the name "Sarah Palin".




It's not just Palin.  It's any hapless fuck who says he or she believes in any actual sort of freedom, while their personal beliefs and and actions reflect quite differently.  This isn't a Republican thing; this is an everyone thing. Leave me alone and then you have some standing to point the finger at others for controlling citizens.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Redstorm]
    #10460692 - 06/06/09 11:52 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

How has Sarah Palin oppressed you?


--------------------

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InvisiblePoid
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10460933 - 06/06/09 12:49 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
so Sarah Palin now talks about herself in the 3rd person?



No, here's the quote:
Quote:

Palin has called herself "as pro-life as any candidate can be" and has called abortion an "atrocity




She probably said "I am as pro-life as any candidate can be.", and "Abortion is an atrocity.", so she wasn't referring to herself in the third person.



Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
I beg you, show me sarah palin saying she'd lock up drug users,
show me where she's made most of these things you attribute to her



I learned everything that I know about her from the news and Wikipedia, I really have no other sources. What sources do you have that show that she wouldn't lock up drug users? Isn't she socially conservative?


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

Edited by Poid (06/06/09 01:13 PM)

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Poid]
    #10461242 - 06/06/09 01:55 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

She seems to be socially conservative in her personal views.  I am not so sure she is regarding your life.  And in regards to the reefer issue, Barack is socially conservative, which kind of kills the entire meaning of the phrase.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10461701 - 06/06/09 03:20 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:

I am.  I have never been busted for anything and do whatever I want but I have been forced give up millions of dollars worth of my property to the government.  Millions.




Sounds like someone needs to hire a competent accountant.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: TGRR]
    #10461945 - 06/06/09 04:18 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I did.  I am old and make money.  Can't beat the tax man.  Enough.


--------------------

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10461952 - 06/06/09 04:22 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I did.  I am old and make money.  Can't beat the tax man.  Enough.




Sucks to pay your share, doesn't it?


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: TGRR]
    #10461971 - 06/06/09 04:26 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

My share and about twenty other people's share.  What do you pay?


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: TGRR]
    #10461986 - 06/06/09 04:31 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

You mean you dont have sympathy for a man who earns what 20 people earn?  Shocking. 

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/incredible_business_man_has

Incredible 'Business-Man' Has Salary Of 10 Regular Men

CHICAGO—Sources in the Chicago metropolitan area confirmed Monday the existence of an extraordinary "business-man" imbued with the earning power and fiscal strength of 10 ordinary men. This invincible, superhuman associate is reportedly able to leap from assistant manager to vice president of operations in a single bound, and is believed to have a secret headquarters somewhere deep within the suburbs, where by night he assumes the identity of a mild-mannered family man. Sources claim the man draws his power from a special hand-tailored Italian suit that strikes fear into the hearts of rival equity firms everywhere. The only challenge to the business-man's dominance is reportedly his arch-nemesis, "the business-woman," whom he has kept trapped beneath a protective glass ceiling since 1973

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Chespirito]
    #10462010 - 06/06/09 04:39 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

imbued with the earning power and fiscal strength of 10 ordinary men.




In which case he will be paying the taxes of 50 ordinary men.  How much do you pay?


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10462029 - 06/06/09 04:44 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Shit man Im 23 :shrug:

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Chespirito]
    #10462050 - 06/06/09 04:49 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Chespirito said:
Shit man Im 23 :shrug:




Then I guess you are copping to not paying your fair share?  Next time you see a successful person in the street offer them oral sex.  They will probably turn you down but it's the gesture that matters.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10462072 - 06/06/09 04:54 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Why would I do that?  I pay my taxes based off what I earned.  I worked at a school for a year doing research and got paid appropriately for that.  The successful businessman presumably gets paid and pays his taxes appropriate to him.  Is your definition of 'fair share' a specific constant?  My definition is decidedly non-linear, well the linearity could be debated though I'm not a fan of pro-linearity.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Poid]
    #10462088 - 06/06/09 04:56 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Palin has called herself "as pro-life as any candidate can be" and has called abortion an "atrocity




She probably said "I am as pro-life as any candidate can be.", and "Abortion is an atrocity.", so she wasn't referring to herself in the third person.




and yet that little quote refers to her in the 3rd person,
regardless of the fact, it still doesnt show where she's said
she'd do anything to ban abortions, gay marriage or jail drug
users, in fact she's vetoed bills that went against her own
beliefs, what's so hard to understand, she votes for the rights
of the people regardless of her own convictions



Quote:

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
I beg you, show me sarah palin saying she'd lock up drug users,
show me where she's made most of these things you attribute to her



I learned everything that I know about her from the news and Wikipedia, I really have no other sources. What sources do you have that show that she wouldn't lock up drug users? Isn't she socially conservative?




I cant show you what she didnt say, only what she has said and
done, I have pointed it out in your little wiki quote, the proof
is on you to show where she's made these claims and that it
wasnt the media or some homo that edits wiki pages, it should be
apparent to anyone old enough to read that the media cant be
trusted as reliable, if it were, the National Enquirer would be
the best source out there

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Chespirito]
    #10462094 - 06/06/09 04:58 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

> You mean you dont have sympathy for a man who earns what 20 people earn?  Shocking. 

What is this "what 20 people earn" BS?  Should we fault medical doctors that are responsible for people's lives, that spent eight years in college, because they make more than 20 high school dropouts flipping burgers at McDonald's?  I have no sympathy at all for the dropout losers that are whining because flipping burgers doesn't pay very much.  I have a lot of sympathy for the successful business person that is punished by the taxman for doing well in order to support the loser dropouts that think they deserve more.

Edit: apologies for going off topic


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

Edited by Seuss (06/06/09 04:59 PM)

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Chespirito]
    #10462100 - 06/06/09 04:59 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Chespirito said:
You mean you dont have sympathy for a man who earns what 20 people earn?  Shocking. 

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/incredible_business_man_has






the onion, LOL

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Seuss]
    #10462112 - 06/06/09 05:01 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Your logic fails in regard to the fact that our economy needs tons of uneducated people to do all of our construction and flipping burger jobs.  Sure you can tell everyone that they could have gone to college, ultimately we still need a ton of people to not get medical degrees.  So it is disingenuous to imply that everyone could be wealthy.  I have no problem with wealthy people, in fact I hope to become one at a later day in my life.  However I understand that people need to be poor and so I have no problem paying more taxes on my part and foregoing that extra Pioneer 60 inch HDTV, instead enjoying the 2 I could safely afford.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Chespirito]
    #10462143 - 06/06/09 05:07 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I went to college.  I work in construction.  I make money.  Nobody needs to be poor.  Poor is mostly a choice.  1% of the people pay 40% of the taxes.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Chespirito]
    #10462156 - 06/06/09 05:09 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Chespirito said:
Your logic fails in regard to the fact that our economy needs tons of uneducated people to do all of our construction and flipping burger jobs.




what about the educated people doing the burger flipping and
construction, my pops had a Bachelors in engineering from
Auburn, he did plumbing and was a millwright, I worked with a
guy that had a doctorate in psychology at a waffle house


Quote:

However I understand that people need to be poor and so I have no problem paying more taxes on my part and foregoing that extra Pioneer 60 inch HDTV, instead enjoying the 2 I could safely afford.




I have an understanding that if poor people work, they'll have
more than they had, of those that are working, I have no issues
with aiding in the supplementing of their income but I certainly
dont see the need to pay people not to work, let the bastards
die out already so they no longer burden society, at least those
that are working are making some kind of effort


and if you want to pay people to not work, that's your
prerogative, I shouldnt be forced to do so though

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10462181 - 06/06/09 05:14 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Somehow I doubt you are the guy digging ditches.  So you think that the workers at convenience stores can make huge sums of money?  How do you plan on a functioning economy where everyone is well off?

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10462193 - 06/06/09 05:16 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I went to college.  I work in construction.  I make money.  Nobody needs to be poor.  Poor is mostly a choice.  1% of the people pay 40% of the taxes.





40% of the people pay no taxes

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10462199 - 06/06/09 05:17 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
what about the educated people doing the burger flipping and
construction, my pops had a Bachelors in engineering from
Auburn, he did plumbing and was a millwright, I worked with a
guy that had a doctorate in psychology at a waffle house




Shit I'm in the same boat.  I have a masters degree in the sciences yet can't find work anywhere.  I'm thinking of going back to school to get my PhD or law school (though I shudder at that).


Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
I have no issues
with aiding in the supplementing of their income but I certainly
dont see the need to pay people not to work




That is agreeable to me.  However there are times when people get fired and I do think its our responsibility to help them out for a period of time.  Do I think there are huge problems with the welfare system in our country?  Absolutely.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Phred]
    #10462216 - 06/06/09 05:21 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:


Dude, you are usually pretty level-headed in your posts but you (like Redstorm) seem powerless to prevent a blinding red haze from descending like a curtain between your rational mind and your typing fingers whenever your eyes scan the name "Sarah Palin".







:rofl:


Phred Ive missed your posts! :smile:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Seuss]
    #10462224 - 06/06/09 05:22 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:


Edit: apologies for going off topic





has there ever been Sarah Palin thread that stayed on topic? :smirk:


--------------------
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We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: TGRR]
    #10462252 - 06/06/09 05:27 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

TGRR said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I did.  I am old and make money.  Can't beat the tax man.  Enough.




Sucks to pay your share, doesn't it?





and it sucks not to get requested links.....



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

TGRR said:
Quote:

Seuss said:


As Governor, has Palin forced any of her religious moral beliefs upon the people of Alaska? 





Closing down the homes for pregnant teens was a good one.[/quote]
Link?




--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Chespirito]
    #10462275 - 06/06/09 05:30 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Chespirito said:
Shit I'm in the same boat.  I have a masters degree in the sciences yet can't find work anywhere.  I'm thinking of going back to school to get my PhD or law school (though I shudder at that).





regardless of your level of education, less than 20% of college
grads find jobs in a high paying career field, we have the best
educated homeless/poor people in the world, have you tried
flipping burgers yet?


Quote:

there are times when people get fired and I do think its our responsibility to help them out for a period of time.




that's what unemployment insurance is paid for by employers, you
generally get half or less of your pay while you were working
assuming the employer doesnt contest it and the state doesnt
find in their favor during an appeal, there's also a valid
reason we have charities, it provides decent paying jobs as well
as aids those that need help

there's no need for welfare when we have an abundance of
wealthier people paying into charities without complaint, dick
cheney donates $7 million of the $8 million he makes each year
to charities

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/4/15/02358.shtml

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10462296 - 06/06/09 05:35 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
regardless of your level of education, less than 20% of college
grads find jobs in a high paying career field, we have the best
educated homeless/poor people in the world, have you tried
flipping burgers yet?



Yes actually I did investigate that, unfortunately in SoCal the Mexicans have that on lockdown.  Once Im done taking this LSAT on monday, I plan on mass applying to all engineering companies doing research I am qualified for. 

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
that's what unemployment insurance is paid for by employers, you
generally get half or less of your pay while you were working
assuming the employer doesnt contest it and the state doesnt
find in their favor during an appeal, there's also a valid
reason we have charities, it provides decent paying jobs as well
as aids those that need help




This is interesting, Ill have to read more about it.  I was under the impression that the majority of Americans generally do not qualify for unemployment insurance.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Chespirito]
    #10462386 - 06/06/09 05:52 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Any body who has worked for someone else on the books qualifies if they have put in a minimal amount of time.  That would be almost everybody.  Self employed generally cannot collect.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10463003 - 06/06/09 08:04 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
She seems to be socially conservative in her personal views.  I am not so sure she is regarding your life.  And in regards to the reefer issue, Barack is socially conservative, which kind of kills the entire meaning of the phrase.




Surprise! Politicians in the US are all conservative. Some more than others.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zouden]
    #10463441 - 06/06/09 09:47 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
She seems to be socially conservative in her personal views.  I am not so sure she is regarding your life.  And in regards to the reefer issue, Barack is socially conservative, which kind of kills the entire meaning of the phrase.




Surprise! Politicians in the US are all conservative. Some more than others.





Blarg.  Americans don't even know what a conservative IS, anymore.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: TGRR]
    #10463725 - 06/06/09 10:49 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

From a small-government perspective, yes. But not from a social perspective. The rest of the world thinks the US is pretty backwards in its social policy (eg, age of consent, minimum drinking age, gay marriage, drug prohibition). I'm not expecting Obama to change anything in that regard.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10463760 - 06/06/09 10:57 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The tax code is the single most powerful agency for population control ever invented.




Nope. It is WAR.

Always has been.  Always will be.

See the essay "War is the Health of the State".


--------------------
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OfflineTGRR
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zorbman]
    #10463793 - 06/06/09 11:05 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
Quote:

The tax code is the single most powerful agency for population control ever invented.




Nope. It is WAR.

Always has been.  Always will be.

See the essay "War is the Health of the State".




WRONG.  People fuck faster than you can shoot them.  This is proven fact.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10463803 - 06/06/09 11:07 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
My share and about twenty other people's share.  What do you pay?





Mine.  Sucks to be you.


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OfflineTGRR
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10463808 - 06/06/09 11:09 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Quote:

TGRR said:
Quote:

Seuss said:


As Governor, has Palin forced any of her religious moral beliefs upon the people of Alaska? 





Closing down the homes for pregnant teens was a good one.





I dont think you were part of the mob that put out many lies about Sarah Palin daily during the election (they were scared little bitches)

but do mind showing me a link?

Like how many "homes for pregnant teens" did she close down?




http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/09/02/palin_slashed_funding_to_help.html


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: TGRR]
    #10464186 - 06/07/09 01:14 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

TGRR said:
Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Quote:

TGRR said:
Closing down the homes for pregnant teens was a good one.



I dont think you were part of the mob that put out many lies about Sarah Palin daily during the election (they were scared little bitches)
but do mind showing me a link?
Like how many "homes for pregnant teens" did she close down?



http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/09/02/palin_slashed_funding_to_help.html





seems she only reduced th amount requested, it was still a significant increase over previous years

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10459003#10459003

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:


technically she didn't even cut it.

In Alaska, the governor is allowed to reduce spending allocations in the service of sound management and fiscal accountability. To prove his contention that Palin slashed funds for teen mothers, Kane produced the Alaska 2008 budget with Sarah Palin�s line by line adjustments. It is true that lawmakers allocated 5 million to Covenant House Alaska and that Mrs. Palin cut that allocation to 3.9 million dollars. However, what is misleading about the Post headline is that the allocation of 3.9 million is three times more than Covenant House Alaska received from government grants in 2007. According to records on the Covenant House Alaska website, the organization received just over 1.3 million dollars from grants in 2007 and nearly 1.2 million in 2006. Even with the reductions, Governor Palin signed a budget which provided three times more funds than the organization received in 2007.

the covenant house asked for 5 million and she gave them 3.9 million. (3 times more than they received the year before)

http://wthrockmorton.com/2008/09/03/sarah-palin-did-not-slash-funds-for-teen-mothers/



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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: TGRR]
    #10464609 - 06/07/09 06:18 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

So in TGRR world, increasing funding by a factor of 3 instead of a factor of 5 is equivalent to closing the doors?

That explains a great deal as to how your mind "works".


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zouden]
    #10464668 - 06/07/09 07:03 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The rest of the world thinks the US is pretty backwards in its social policy (eg, age of consent, minimum drinking age, gay marriage, drug prohibition).




Yes, I can imagine how states like Iran, Sudan, and China would think the US is backwards.

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Redstorm]
    #10464702 - 06/07/09 07:24 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Sorry, I should have said the rest of the developed world. Anyway those countries aren't democracies. I can't think of any other democracy that has both sides of its politics so far to the right.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zouden]
    #10464703 - 06/07/09 07:25 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I was just being a smartass anyways. :wink:

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Redstorm]
    #10464707 - 06/07/09 07:28 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

You still made a valid point :smile2:


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: TGRR]
    #10464902 - 06/07/09 08:52 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

TGRR said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
My share and about twenty other people's share.  What do you pay?





Mine.



I doubt it.  I suspect you might be right around that 40% that pays virtually nothing.


--------------------

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OfflineTHC Titan
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10465159 - 06/07/09 10:09 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
there's no need for welfare when we have an abundance of
wealthier people paying into charities without complaint, dick
cheney donates $7 million of the $8 million he makes each year
to charities

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/4/15/02358.shtml




Hahahahaha.

You cannot be serious.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #10465422 - 06/07/09 11:33 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
So in TGRR world, increasing funding by a factor of 3 instead of a factor of 5 is equivalent to closing the doors?

That explains a great deal as to how your mind "works".



Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
So in TGRR world, increasing funding by a factor of 3 instead of a factor of 5 is equivalent to closing the doors?

That explains a great deal as to how your mind "works".




Sure.  If you believe a blog over the Washington Post.  This explains a great deal as to how your mind "works".


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: THC Titan]
    #10465427 - 06/07/09 11:34 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

THC Titan said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
there's no need for welfare when we have an abundance of
wealthier people paying into charities without complaint, dick
cheney donates $7 million of the $8 million he makes each year
to charities

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/4/15/02358.shtml




Hahahahaha.

You cannot be serious.




Of course he isn't.  He's quoting Newsmax.  Nobody is THAT stupid.


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OfflineTGRR
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10465435 - 06/07/09 11:35 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

TGRR said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
My share and about twenty other people's share.  What do you pay?





Mine.



I doubt it.  I suspect you might be right around that 40% that pays virtually nothing.





But I believe you've paid in "millions", Zap.  No, really, I do.  Honest.

:lol:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: TGRR]
    #10465485 - 06/07/09 11:47 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

TGRR said:
Quote:

THC Titan said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
there's no need for welfare when we have an abundance of
wealthier people paying into charities without complaint, dick
cheney donates $7 million of the $8 million he makes each year
to charities

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/4/15/02358.shtml




Hahahahaha.

You cannot be serious.




Of course he isn't.  He's quoting Newsmax.  Nobody is THAT stupid.




nah... it was only the one year they donated $7million

some were a little lower
http://media.www.gwhatchet.com/media/storage/paper332/news/2006/03/09/News/Web-Extra.Cheney.Donates.Millions.For.Cardiovascular.Institute-1660737.shtml





since you prefer the liberal media and the tabliod papers like the WaPo...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12318056/

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: TGRR]
    #10465561 - 06/07/09 12:07 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

TGRR said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

TGRR said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
My share and about twenty other people's share.  What do you pay?





Mine.



I doubt it.  I suspect you might be right around that 40% that pays virtually nothing.





But I believe you've paid in "millions", Zap.  No, really, I do.  Honest.

:lol:





Such is the fate of a couple who have worked for 30 years and been successful.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10465565 - 06/07/09 12:07 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
since you prefer the liberal media and the tabliod papers like the WaPo...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12318056/




I don't think he was implying your statistics about Cheney's taxes were made-up.

Your claim that we should pack up all welfare services because hey, we have rich people who voluntarily contribute to charity, is what's outside the realm of reality. Even more so when other social services that could be considered "welfare" are taken into account.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: THC Titan]
    #10465591 - 06/07/09 12:13 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Why?  Why do you think the government is any more suited to decide who gets charity and who doesn't?  Why are they more suited to decide who gives charity and who doesn't?  When did this fascism take hold in your education?


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10465643 - 06/07/09 12:23 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Why?  Why do you think the government is any more suited to decide who gets charity and who doesn't?  Why are they more suited to decide who gives charity and who doesn't?  When did this fascism take hold in your education?



From Article 1 Section 8

"The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States"

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: TGRR]
    #10465687 - 06/07/09 12:31 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

TGRR said:
Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Quote:

TGRR said:
Quote:

Seuss said:


As Governor, has Palin forced any of her religious moral beliefs upon the people of Alaska? 





Closing down the homes for pregnant teens was a good one.





I dont think you were part of the mob that put out many lies about Sarah Palin daily during the election (they were scared little bitches)

but do mind showing me a link?

Like how many "homes for pregnant teens" did she close down?




http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2008/09/02/palin_slashed_funding_to_help.html






Your link says nothing about "Closing down Homes for pregnant teens"

this HOME IS SILL OPEN!

comprende?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Chespirito]
    #10465695 - 06/07/09 12:33 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Which does not answer the question.  By what metric has he determined that the government bureaucracy is a more effective agency of charity?  And how does a small segment of the population become "general"?


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Redstorm]
    #10465774 - 06/07/09 12:51 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Talk about hypocrisy.  Unless Palin has magically changed to the opinion that drugs should be used freely without punishment, that gays can be married, and turned pro-choice, I'm not where she has the balls to say anything about controlling people.



qft

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Cubie]
    #10466042 - 06/07/09 01:50 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Which does not answer the question.  By what metric has he determined that the government bureaucracy is a more effective agency of charity?  And how does a small segment of the population become "general"?




Not all "welfare" programs are mere substitutes for ordinary charity, and they certainly don't affect just a small segment of society. Social Security, scholarships, and health services to name a few.

In developed countries such as ours, investing in human capital is an effective way of lifting people out of poverty, increasing their well-being, and enhancing their ability to contribute to economic growth. People care about these things. The federal school lunch program costs almost $9B/year. I'd like to see private donations completely cover that cost along with all the other programs demanded of the government.

When people say we could get rid of welfare and have the same outcomes from charity donations, they are not thinking with their brain. People would be going without food and medical care even more than is happening now.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: TGRR]
    #10466087 - 06/07/09 02:02 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

TGRR said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
So in TGRR world, increasing funding by a factor of 3 instead of a factor of 5 is equivalent to closing the doors?

That explains a great deal as to how your mind "works".



Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
So in TGRR world, increasing funding by a factor of 3 instead of a factor of 5 is equivalent to closing the doors?

That explains a great deal as to how your mind "works".




Sure.  If you believe a blog over the Washington Post.  This explains a great deal as to how your mind "works".




I wasn't stupid enough to believe the blog or the WP. So I went to the Covenant House website and looked at their financial statement.

That's how my mind works. You should try exercising yours a bit more frequently.

I guess then your mind would have to do some "work".

Can't have that now can we. Not when it's so much easier for you to believe what suits you.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: THC Titan]
    #10466133 - 06/07/09 02:14 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

THC Titan said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
since you prefer the liberal media and the tabliod papers like the WaPo...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12318056/




I don't think he was implying your statistics about Cheney's taxes were made-up.




funny... there's nothing in his statement about welfare, just the source I cited

Quote:

Of course he isn't.  He's quoting Newsmax.  Nobody is THAT stupid.




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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: THC Titan]
    #10466324 - 06/07/09 03:07 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

THC Titan said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Which does not answer the question.  By what metric has he determined that the government bureaucracy is a more effective agency of charity?  And how does a small segment of the population become "general"?




Not all "welfare" programs are mere substitutes for ordinary charity, and they certainly don't affect just a small segment of society. Social Security, scholarships, and health services to name a few.

In developed countries such as ours, investing in human capital is an effective way of lifting people out of poverty, increasing their well-being, and enhancing their ability to contribute to economic growth. People care about these things. The federal school lunch program costs almost $9B/year. I'd like to see private donations completely cover that cost along with all the other programs demanded of the government.

When people say we could get rid of welfare and have the same outcomes from charity donations, they are not thinking with their brain. People would be going without food and medical care even more than is happening now.



There is in fact not one shred of evidence to support that and quite a lot of evidence of the harm caused by welfare to minority families.  State dependency creates more state dependency.

Social Security is not welfare, you only get out what you pay in


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10466983 - 06/07/09 05:32 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
There is in fact not one shred of evidence to support that and quite a lot of evidence of the harm caused by welfare to minority families.  State dependency creates more state dependency.

Social Security is not welfare, you only get out what you pay in




Clearly not all of the programs work, but the suggestion was that "there is no need for welfare" with rich people contributing to charities. My point is, public assistance is generally effective and there is no way to replace everything that could be considered "welfare" just by sheer power of private donations. It doesn't add up. Whether or not welfare programs should exist at all is a different subject.

(if the answer is "no" your country of choice is probably Somalia)

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10467008 - 06/07/09 05:37 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:

since you prefer the liberal media




I do?


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: TGRR]
    #10467014 - 06/07/09 05:38 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I do!

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: THC Titan]
    #10467138 - 06/07/09 06:05 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

THC Titan said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
There is in fact not one shred of evidence to support that and quite a lot of evidence of the harm caused by welfare to minority families.  State dependency creates more state dependency.

Social Security is not welfare, you only get out what you pay in




Clearly not all of the programs work, but the suggestion was that "there is no need for welfare" with rich people contributing to charities. My point is, public assistance is generally effective and there is no way to replace everything that could be considered "welfare" just by sheer power of private donations. It doesn't add up. Whether or not welfare programs should exist at all is a different subject.




You offer nothing to back up your assertion that with an end to the grotesquely massive confiscation of private funds there would not be enough voluntary charitable giving.  This is pure conjecture on your part and strikes me as a rather nasty view of the generosity of the American people.  But my view that government welfare programs generate a government welfare dependency has been amply demonstrated.
Quote:



(if the answer is "no" your country of choice is probably Somalia)




Nonsense.  Nobody in Somalia has anything at all to give away.


--------------------

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10467150 - 06/07/09 06:09 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Wait, how could government welfare create dependency while charity doesn't?


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zouden]
    #10467178 - 06/07/09 06:16 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

It is the difference between feeling entitled and feeling grateful.  Entitled people have no motivation to get off.  Grateful people are motivated to pay it back (or forward) someday.


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10467241 - 06/07/09 06:30 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

While entitled people are required to pay it back someday. That seems fair enough to me.


--------------------
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                                                part of the world belongs to me
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10467260 - 06/07/09 06:34 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

A lot of social programs are now designed to create positive incentives for people to change their behavior. For example, if you're poor and can't afford day care, it will be provided if you guarantee your child's school attendance. Food stamps can be conditional on mothers taking their children to get regular check-ups at a health clinic. It isn't all about dependency.

I already said there are flawed welfare programs, but you are unwilling to budge on the notion that public assistance is a "fascist" notion implanted in my head and that it is basically charity at gunpoint. To me, the benefits of a better educated, more literate, more healthy populace are plain and simple. Lumping in all welfare programs together is just self-deception.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zouden]
    #10467285 - 06/07/09 06:39 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
While entitled people are required to pay it back someday. That seems fair enough to me.



:rofl2:  I peed.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: THC Titan]
    #10467297 - 06/07/09 06:42 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

And I ask yet again why you think that the government is the only possible source or even a competent or desirable one?


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10467300 - 06/07/09 06:43 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

For example, I didn't have to pay a cent for my university course, as the government lent me the money at zero interest. I'm required to pay it back as part of my tax. I've already paid more than 10% of it.

I don't see why such a system wouldn't work in the US.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10467317 - 06/07/09 06:46 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

zouden said:
While entitled people are required to pay it back someday. That seems fair enough to me.



:rofl2:  I peed.




I crapped!


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zouden]
    #10467358 - 06/07/09 06:53 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
For example, I didn't have to pay a cent for my university course, as the government lent me the money at zero interest. I'm required to pay it back as part of my tax. I've already paid more than 10% of it.

I don't see why such a system wouldn't work in the US.



Yea, THey really need something like that here.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zouden]
    #10467407 - 06/07/09 07:02 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Wait, how could government welfare create dependency while charity doesn't?




One serves one party's agenda, one serves the other.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10467583 - 06/07/09 07:32 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
And I ask yet again why you think that the government is the only possible source or even a competent or desirable one?




Whoa, I never said the government is the only possible source of charity or welfare (whichever you're referring to). In fact, private charities comprise a lot of the work that is done to alleviate hunger in communities. What I'm saying is that private donations do not have the scope, or depth, of federal programs in allocating funds towards social programs that they could become the sole provider of aid if the government were to shut down.

Personally I think public assistance and private charity are mutually beneficial, as long as the public-funded programs are well-managed (there are obviously problems with this) and the private charities reach the poorest of the poor (they often do not have the power). Imperfect, but necessary.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Redstorm]
    #10467755 - 06/07/09 08:06 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

THC Titan said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
There is in fact not one shred of evidence to support that and quite a lot of evidence of the harm caused by welfare to minority families.  State dependency creates more state dependency.

Social Security is not welfare, you only get out what you pay in




Clearly not all of the programs work, but the suggestion was that "there is no need for welfare" with rich people contributing to charities. My point is, public assistance is generally effective and there is no way to replace everything that could be considered "welfare" just by sheer power of private donations. It doesn't add up. Whether or not welfare programs should exist at all is a different subject.

(if the answer is "no" your country of choice is probably Somalia)





Uh, you wanna go ahead and back up these conclusions?  You've just said "i'm right" in different words.  You can't just declare conclusory statements that restate your insisted view and act like its an argument.

I'm especially interested in how you know private donations aren't sufficient to replace everything considered welfare and why that, as is implied, is a relevant test.


Wouldn't a more relevant test be whether private (not forced by armed men) donation could provide better benifits to society as a whole- especially those targeted or sought to be targeted by the welfare programs ran by the government?



zappa:

Quote:



No, there's just one hurdle.  When does a fetus acquire a soul?  That is the only question.





No.  Perhaps you believe it is at two weeks or that is the earliest time thereabouts that it could have a soul.  That doesn't mean you think removing the fetus from the body is wrong, nor that killing it is if you recognize no chance for the fetus to live outside of the body.


Your statement is akin to stating that if you recognize people have a soul (that which makes them people rather than only life in my use- before some jackass decides to argue from their own private definition of soul) that it is never acceptable or good to kill them, or to take actions with the knowledge that it will kill them.


Quote:

  No one has ever demonstrated that there is a soul at all.  Hence it's status as a religious construct.  That's why I said people who believe in a soul.  Not people who have proven a soul exists.  How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?  Answer:  All of them.




I'm using soul to refer to the quality that makes a person more than vegetative life- what sepperates a moral person from a living clump of tissue.  What are you using it as?  Your denial doesn't demean the relevance, it just answers the question by saying there is never a soul.  What does angels have to do with anything?

You've not defined soul, and I think its a neccesary concept.  What are you using that word to mean such that its so ridiculous to discuss?  Different from my definition?



Quote:



Quote:


    And even if everything else is granted, that doesn't per se mean that we can't remove a fetus from somebody morally.  It may mean we can't kill the fetus, but a cessarian type operation or induced labor may be just fine, provided reasonable means are taken to preserve the life of the fetus.






Huh?  You are floundering.  As in flopping all over the place like a fish out of water.  Is it murder if you throw someone out of a vehicle





Rather than just declare my position is irelevent why don't you demonstrate it is?

I have no idea what the point of your question is, but yes, it would be murder if you intended to and did, wrongfully, kill the person by whatever means, or wrongfully took actions willfully which you knew could cause death.

What does this have to do with my observation?  If I take your kidneys without your consent are you a murderer to remove them so that you may resume living a normal life to a natural death rather than a misreable premature one?  Surely not, because you have no moral obligation to sustain me.  The same answer would be reached if I was connected to your body directly.


Your statement must presume that there is no situation in which you have a right to remove a pregnancy from your body, which maybe you believe but is surely not worthy of your outright scoffing at the distinction whilst making no effort to demonstrate the distinction is illusory.  A mother that will die by giving birth to a child she did not willingly conceive has no obligation, under some views including mine, to carry that child.

She does not have the right to kill the child, but she does have a right to live and to remove the child, so she may take the former actions but not the later- if the later is neccesary as ar easonable consequence of the former that is far different than saying that their is no difference.  Are  you saying that if a mother is to die and therefore aborts the child and when it is removed it is alive and well that they may kill the child for its own sake, and such is no different then a death solely a consequence of the effort to save the mother?

Again, I don't see how this is such a ridiculous distinction as to make it worthy of your cynical charecterization.  Their is a meritous distinction between a neccessary and unnecessary killing.  If you accept it is someone's right to purge their body of an unwelcomed and uninvited child that does not mean, as you suggest, that their is no distinction between removing the child and letting it live its life and removing it and killing it for convieniance alone.


I think your characterization of the observation is ridiculous.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Phred]
    #10467827 - 06/07/09 08:23 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
johnm214 writes:

Quote:

That she's promoting crap utterly inconsistant with her actions.




Dude, you are usually pretty level-headed in your posts but you (like Redstorm) seem powerless to prevent a blinding red haze from descending like a curtain between your rational mind and your typing fingers whenever your eyes scan the name "Sarah Palin".

What actions has she taken as governor which run contrary to her statements in the above address? What "big government" programs has she instituted (or even proposed, for that matter) in Alaska which have lead (or will lead) to more government "control" of Alaskan residents?

Be specific.

Quote:

When one appeals to some philosophy that is wildly contradictory to her ACTIONS and offers no explanation, it is hard to not view them as whores clinging to whatever in vogue buzzwords happen to score well in the polls for that week.




I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Quote:

That palin would have the nerve to talk about shit like this (which is 100% on the money) given her record is quite the mystery.




And what record would that be? Again, I want specifics.



Phred





By actions I'm not refering only to official actions as mayor or governor, I'm including policy positions and implicit support of various issues.  I agree there isn't a whole lot there given her remarkably short career and the nature of the governorship's limited ability to shape policy qualitativly on the issues identified.

Anyways, I'm referring to Palin's support of victimless crimes like our drug laws (perhaps more accurately not supporting changes to them), opposition to equal treatment of homosexuals by the government in marriage licensure, quizzical position on abortion and the law which seems to support making it illegal- though I forget exactly what it was cuz I didn't think it relevant for the race, and the general nonsense that most americans support.


I agree with redstorm that it is hard to claim a moral or philosophical objection to the things she claims without posturing it as a disagreement in degree rather than principle or explaining the unexplainable conflicts.

not addressed to phred:
Its also getting pretty old that some members of this forum think any comment that at all disagrees with palin or even thinks her reasoning is nonsense is cast as some rabid misogynistic lunatic remark.



I said I agreed with her position and people are casting my comments as if I'm some rabid critic of the woman.  Its pretty ridiculous at this point-  quit trying to play the victim every time someone has the gall to think she's inconsistant (the horror!).  Give me a break.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: johnm214]
    #10467856 - 06/07/09 08:30 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

She does not have the right to kill the child, but she does have a right to live and to remove the child




Interestingly, one could argue that you never have the right to kill a child but since you have control over your own body you always have the right to remove something growing inside you. The fact that the child/fetus will die outside the womb could be considered entirely irrelevant (unless we talk about duty of care).


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10467864 - 06/07/09 08:32 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Democrats and Republicans are teh gay.

:gaycrankey:





~Monk

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10468551 - 06/07/09 11:08 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
She seems to be socially conservative in her personal views.  I am not so sure she is regarding your life.  And in regards to the reefer issue, Barack is socially conservative, which kind of kills the entire meaning of the phrase.



Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
Quote:

Palin has called herself "as pro-life as any candidate can be" and has called abortion an "atrocity




She probably said "I am as pro-life as any candidate can be.", and "Abortion is an atrocity.", so she wasn't referring to herself in the third person.




and yet that little quote refers to her in the 3rd person,
regardless of the fact, it still doesnt show where she's said
she'd do anything to ban abortions, gay marriage or jail drug
users, in fact she's vetoed bills that went against her own
beliefs, what's so hard to understand, she votes for the rights
of the people regardless of her own convictions



Quote:

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
I beg you, show me sarah palin saying she'd lock up drug users,
show me where she's made most of these things you attribute to her



I learned everything that I know about her from the news and Wikipedia, I really have no other sources. What sources do you have that show that she wouldn't lock up drug users? Isn't she socially conservative?




I cant show you what she didnt say, only what she has said and
done, I have pointed it out in your little wiki quote, the proof
is on you to show where she's made these claims and that it
wasnt the media or some homo that edits wiki pages, it should be
apparent to anyone old enough to read that the media cant be
trusted as reliable, if it were, the National Enquirer would be
the best source out there



I haven't looked at her voting record, I just assumed that a politician who is personally against certain things would vote against such things as well. And that quote isn't her referring to herself in third-person, she refers to herself as 'I'.


Although the mainstream media may not be completely reliable, it's nowhere near as unreliable as the National Enquirer. I guess I just need to research her voting record more to see what this lady is truly about. :shrug:


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zouden]
    #10468606 - 06/07/09 11:23 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Quote:

She does not have the right to kill the child, but she does have a right to live and to remove the child




Interestingly, one could argue that you never have the right to kill a child but since you have control over your own body you always have the right to remove something growing inside you. The fact that the child/fetus will die outside the womb could be considered entirely irrelevant (unless we talk about duty of care).





exactly.

All that's neccesary though is to show that this line of thinking is relevant in some situations for zappa's dismissal to be identified as spurious.


If you're raped, were taking birth control, and happened to conceive anyways, it could hardly be considered your fault.  Lets say you have scoliosis and will suffer serious problems from the pregnancy.  You may have no right to kill a person outright (granting the fetus is a person, arguendo) in this situation.

It can't, by most moral standards, be said that in this situation in which you played no role in conceiving the child that you necessarily have some duty to cary it full term and risk serious consequences to yourself.  You did not invite the condition and will suffer permanent damage as a result of carrying the burden.


You may not intend to kill the child per se, but you have a right to remove it, I would argue.  If the only way to do that is through a procedure that will kill it, then that's fine (colapsing the skull or whatnot).  But if it results in no signifigant risk to you, then you may remove the child and must not harm it.


In this situation zappa's claim that the presence of a sole ends the discussion is wrong.  Further, just cuz something may be immoral doesn't mean its a good law to ban it.  The law may be impractical, leading to arbitrary and unfair enforcement, or lead to undesirable results as a consequence.



(if your interested in this zouden you should read judith jarvis (sp?) 's A defense of abortion.  Its a good short discussion on this issue)  http://spot.colorado.edu/~heathwoo/Phil160,Fall02/thomson.htm

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Poid]
    #10468885 - 06/08/09 12:24 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
I haven't looked at her voting record, I just assumed that a politician who is personally against certain things would vote against such things as well.




so you'd bash someone based on the bias of the media without having any of the facts, didnt happen to vote for Obama did you?

I know Obamas voting record

"empowerment of blacks" -yea
"everything else" -present

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10468911 - 06/08/09 12:29 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

that present shit is retarded. Why do we have officials that are not even intelligent enough to have an opinion...?

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Cubie]
    #10469066 - 06/08/09 01:16 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

a better question, why do we always put them in the whitehouse

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10469198 - 06/08/09 01:58 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Dont blame me, I supported Ron Paul. lol

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10469514 - 06/08/09 05:19 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:

I know Obamas voting record

"empowerment of blacks" -yea
"everything else" -present





that's a big claim, want to back it up?  maybe in another thread, to keep this one on topic


edit:  by the way, i did some research on your sig for you (as in i simply googled it):

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/change.asp

http://urbanlegends.about.com/b/2008/03/11/quoth-obama.htm


--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
Strike The Root

Edited by Yrat (06/08/09 11:43 AM)

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10470403 - 06/08/09 11:38 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Poid said:
I haven't looked at her voting record, I just assumed that a politician who is personally against certain things would vote against such things as well.




so you'd bash someone based on the bias of the media without having any of the facts, didnt happen to vote for Obama did you?

I know Obamas voting record

"empowerment of blacks" -yea
"everything else" -present



I thought I already had enough facts to have a general idea about who she is, and I didn't vote for anybody, but I definitely preferred Obama over McCain.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Poid]
    #10470552 - 06/08/09 12:05 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
I thought I already had enough facts to have a general idea about who she is, and I didn't vote for anybody, but I definitely preferred Obama over McCain.





facts arent presented on TV or radio, you wont find much in the
news papers, for instance there was more than 2 candidates for
president but the Television didnt seem to show anything more than
Obama and Palin, occasionally that old guy, who was he, her father?

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10470656 - 06/08/09 12:20 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

The news showed many candidates, but mainly focused on Obama and McCain towards the end of the election.


--------------------
Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. --  Bob Dylan
fireworks_god said:
It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: johnm214]
    #10470911 - 06/08/09 01:06 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
  I agree there isn't a whole lot there given her remarkably short career




:rolleyes:


"short career".....





She served two terms on the Wasilla, Alaska, city council from 1992 to 1996.

then she won two terms as mayor of Wasilla from 1996 to 2002.

After an unsuccessful campaign for lieutenant governor of Alaska in 2002, she chaired the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission from 2003 to 2004 while also serving as Ethics Supervisor of the commission.

As governor of Alaska, Sarah Palin managed an $11 billion budget and 15,000 state employees, and manages the country's seventh largest economy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin

she fucking has SIXTEEN (16) Years Experience in Management, Local and State Government.....


this is a short career?

or is this just more Rhetoric....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Edited by lonestar2004 (06/08/09 01:21 PM)

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10471107 - 06/08/09 01:39 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Does seem to be rather more substantive than the current mismanager-in-chief.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10471312 - 06/08/09 02:14 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Remember Obama counts all those years organizing his community and training ACORN workers as Political experience....


Sarah Palin:
I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a 'community organizer,' except that you have actual responsibilities."


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10471342 - 06/08/09 02:20 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)



--------------------
"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil
to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Yrat]
    #10471360 - 06/08/09 02:22 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

non sequitur.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Yrat]
    #10471416 - 06/08/09 02:32 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

you do understand that this thread is about Palin and Obama?


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10472008 - 06/08/09 04:21 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Her experience before being a governor is laughable. I wouldn't even bring it up.  I don't believe Wasilla had 10k population the last estimation.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10472263 - 06/08/09 05:13 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
you do understand that this thread is about Palin and Obama?





yeah i guess talking about obama's experience at ACORN is right on topic  :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:    my bad


--------------------
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Yrat]
    #10472317 - 06/08/09 05:25 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

What experience at what?  He gave some lessons in community extortion and voter fraud?


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Yrat]
    #10472426 - 06/08/09 05:46 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Yrat said:
Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
you do understand that this thread is about Palin and Obama?





yeah i guess talking about obama's experience at ACORN is right on topic  :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:    my bad






Obama-"Control"-Acorn


it does all go together....

Gun Control activism

ACORN, the publicly funded national organization linked to voter fraud in several states, is now actively interfering with the exercise of firearm civil rights in New Jersey, and the Second Amendment Foundation is calling for an immediate federal investigation.

One example of ACORN's gun control activism is when its officials intervened in an unsuccessful attempt to defend Jersey City, New Jersey's local gun control ordinance, which was struck down December 13, 2006 in New Jersey state court as a violation of state law pre-empting stronger local gun ordinances.

"ACORN has, since 1998, received an estimated $31 million in government funding," said SAF founder Alan Gottlieb. "Now they have intervened in a New Jersey gun rights case in defense of an illegal Jersey City one-gun-a-month ordinance that violates the state preemption statute."

"For the past few election cycles," Gottlieb noted, "ACORN has clearly grown more partisan toward the political Left. ACORN'S PAC, in fact, endorsed Sen. Barack Obama for president, even though their tax-exempt status prohibits endorsement of political candidates.

That's hardly surprising since he used to serve as their legal counsel and he taught the group about community organizing. ACORN and Obama are lockstep in seeking to destroy our Second Amendment rights," he stated.

"The organization is currently under FBI investigation over allegations of voter fraud in several states," he added.

"Bad enough that ACORN is implicated in fraudulent activities in several states, but now an ACORN chapter in the Garden State is working against the ability of New Jersey gun owners to exercise a constitutionally protected individual civil right to own a handgun," said former NYPD detective, Sid Frances.

"It is an outrage that this group has intervened to defend an antigun ordinance that has already been declared illegal by the court," he observed. "So long as ACORN accepts one penny of public funding, the organization should remain absolutely neutral on social issues, political campaigns and especially legal actions defending the right to keep and bear arms."

"We call upon the FBI to expand the scope of its ACORN investigation and focus on the group's involvement in the Jersey City case," Gottlieb stated.

"We support Ohio Congressman John Boehner's request that the White House immediately block all federal funding of ACORN activities until this group's questionable activities are fully investigated. We want to know how they are paying for attorneys, and why Seton Hall's Center for Social Justice and the Public Interest Law Center are providing legal assistance to ACORN for this effort."



This is still the United States, not a socialist gulag," Gottlieb concluded. "Public money should not be given to private organizations which then turn around and utilize that funding to usurp the electoral process and erode constitutionally guaranteed civil rights."

The fact that the federal government is planning to use ACORN as part of it's 2010 Census is cause for Americans to be very concerned.




http://www.postchronicle.com/commentary/article_212236101.shtml


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Poid]
    #10472557 - 06/08/09 06:12 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Poid said:
The news showed many candidates, but mainly focused on Obama and McCain towards the end of the election.





the news showed lots of people bidding for the democrat or
republican nominations, it showed the candidates near the election

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Redstorm]
    #10472565 - 06/08/09 06:14 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Her experience before being a governor is laughable. I wouldn't even bring it up.  I don't believe Wasilla had 10k population the last estimation.





and obama experience?

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10472623 - 06/08/09 06:23 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

His experience is not "laughable" but frightening.....


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10472717 - 06/08/09 06:37 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

palin/joe the plumner 2012 please

pr maybe palin/perry 2012


hahahahaha palin = dems 0ver 60 in the senate


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Taco Chef]
    #10472844 - 06/08/09 07:00 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

novumorganum said:



hahahahaha palin = dems 0ver 60 in the senate




you already have over 60 Dem's in the senate....


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We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10472856 - 06/08/09 07:02 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

59 + al when he gets seated

i don't count moderate repubs as dems (i barely count ben nelson and bayh as dems)


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Taco Chef]
    #10472873 - 06/08/09 07:06 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

(Specter, Collins, and Snowe were the only three Republicans to vote for the Obama pork-stimulus bill)

Collins and Snowe need to get the fuck out of the republican party!


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10472881 - 06/08/09 07:08 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
(Specter, Collins, and Snowe were the only three Republicans to vote for the Obama pork-stimulus bill)

Collins and Snowe need to get the fuck out of the republican party!




i'll trade you nelson and bayh for them.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10473023 - 06/08/09 07:36 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
Her experience before being a governor is laughable. I wouldn't even bring it up.  I don't believe Wasilla had 10k population the last estimation.





and obama experience?




Did I say anything supporting Obama? I thought this thread was about Palin?

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Redstorm]
    #10473044 - 06/08/09 07:40 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

If you are going to mention her experience then it is only relevant in comparison to other people's experience.  Or do you perhaps think that only former Presidents should be President?  If you are going to call her experience thin than who's experience is it thin compared to?


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10473062 - 06/08/09 07:43 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Obviously Obama's "experience" is silly as well.  I just take offense to someone implying that I thought Obama had some sort of great governance experience.  I was talking about Palin's remarkable city council and mayoral positions of a backwater shitstain.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10473064 - 06/08/09 07:43 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
Her experience before being a governor is laughable. I wouldn't even bring it up.  I don't believe Wasilla had 10k population the last estimation.





and obama experience?






relevance?

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Quote:

johnm214 said:
  I agree there isn't a whole lot there given her remarkably short career




:rolleyes:


"short career".....





She served two terms on the Wasilla, Alaska, city council from 1992 to 1996.

then she won two terms as mayor of Wasilla from 1996 to 2002.

After an unsuccessful campaign for lieutenant governor of Alaska in 2002, she chaired the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission from 2003 to 2004 while also serving as Ethics Supervisor of the commission.

As governor of Alaska, Sarah Palin managed an $11 billion budget and 15,000 state employees, and manages the country's seventh largest economy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin

she fucking has SIXTEEN (16) Years Experience in Management, Local and State Government.....


this is a short career?

or is this just more Rhetoric....






I was talking about the governorship.  Look man, whatever.  I'm not bashing her on inexperience, I was saying she didn't have much of a record to look at on a number of issues given the offices she served in.  If it makes you feel better I'll concede she's a fantastically experienced woman.  This isn't the point, and I feel as if your trying to take an unimportant statement and divert the discussion to that.



You seem to treat every statement about Palin as some insane attack fueled by hatred, and your defense constantly seems to be on that emotional level.


Phred is quite correct that I was using "record" wrongly, I was referring to her statements and her tacit acceptance of many controversial issues, but I maintain the point.


I don't know how you think a post in which I say I agree with the woman but feel her position is contradictory to her statements, reasoning, and tacit acceptance of equally bothersome intrusions is some ridiculous attack.  The point your picking in the above is irrelevant to my point and I'll concede it to you, arguendo.  We both know what she's done and its irrelevant to my point.


She should at least acknowledge a consistant philosophy if not explain her deviations.  Stop trying to act as if every criticism is some personal attack on the woman.  I said I'd rather have her and biden be president than obama and company, agree with her reasoning, and yet you still try to portray my comments as tired rhetoric attacking the woman personally.  Give me a break.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Redstorm]
    #10473258 - 06/08/09 08:10 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
I thought this thread was about Palin?




Ive had to say this about five times but this tread is about Sarah Palin discussing Barack Obama controlling people with economic policies.

some posters just want to make it only about Sarah Palin.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: johnm214]
    #10473283 - 06/08/09 08:12 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Give me a break.




I'll try but what fun would that be? :grin:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: johnm214]
    #10475410 - 06/09/09 02:08 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Redstorm said:
Her experience before being a governor is laughable. I wouldn't even bring it up.  I don't believe Wasilla had 10k population the last estimation.



and obama experience?



relevance?






comparative experience of the 2 cunts being discussed in this
thread. later we'll discuss their charisma and hit points

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10476702 - 06/09/09 11:40 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Quote:

Yrat said:
Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
you do understand that this thread is about Palin and Obama?





yeah i guess talking about obama's experience at ACORN is right on topic  :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:    my bad






Obama-"Control"-Acorn


it does all go together....

Gun Control activism

ACORN, the publicly funded national organization linked to voter fraud in several states, is now actively interfering with the exercise of firearm civil rights in New Jersey, and the Second Amendment Foundation is calling for an immediate federal investigation.

One example of ACORN's gun control activism is when its officials intervened in an unsuccessful attempt to defend Jersey City, New Jersey's local gun control ordinance, which was struck down December 13, 2006 in New Jersey state court as a violation of state law pre-empting stronger local gun ordinances.

"ACORN has, since 1998, received an estimated $31 million in government funding," said SAF founder Alan Gottlieb. "Now they have intervened in a New Jersey gun rights case in defense of an illegal Jersey City one-gun-a-month ordinance that violates the state preemption statute."

"For the past few election cycles," Gottlieb noted, "ACORN has clearly grown more partisan toward the political Left. ACORN'S PAC, in fact, endorsed Sen. Barack Obama for president, even though their tax-exempt status prohibits endorsement of political candidates.

That's hardly surprising since he used to serve as their legal counsel and he taught the group about community organizing. ACORN and Obama are lockstep in seeking to destroy our Second Amendment rights," he stated.

"The organization is currently under FBI investigation over allegations of voter fraud in several states," he added.

"Bad enough that ACORN is implicated in fraudulent activities in several states, but now an ACORN chapter in the Garden State is working against the ability of New Jersey gun owners to exercise a constitutionally protected individual civil right to own a handgun," said former NYPD detective, Sid Frances.

"It is an outrage that this group has intervened to defend an antigun ordinance that has already been declared illegal by the court," he observed. "So long as ACORN accepts one penny of public funding, the organization should remain absolutely neutral on social issues, political campaigns and especially legal actions defending the right to keep and bear arms."

"We call upon the FBI to expand the scope of its ACORN investigation and focus on the group's involvement in the Jersey City case," Gottlieb stated.

"We support Ohio Congressman John Boehner's request that the White House immediately block all federal funding of ACORN activities until this group's questionable activities are fully investigated. We want to know how they are paying for attorneys, and why Seton Hall's Center for Social Justice and the Public Interest Law Center are providing legal assistance to ACORN for this effort."



This is still the United States, not a socialist gulag," Gottlieb concluded. "Public money should not be given to private organizations which then turn around and utilize that funding to usurp the electoral process and erode constitutionally guaranteed civil rights."

The fact that the federal government is planning to use ACORN as part of it's 2010 Census is cause for Americans to be very concerned.




http://www.postchronicle.com/commentary/article_212236101.shtml





i think that's quite a stretch.  its funny that you have literally grabbed the first result from a google search of "obama acorn control," but i'll concede the point.


--------------------
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to one who is striking at the root."
-Henry David Thoreau
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10477360 - 06/09/09 01:45 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Sarah Palin said "we told ya so"

Sarah Palin rips President Obama, tells Fox News his economic policy is leading U.S. to socialism


Sarah Palin said "we told ya so" to President Obama on Monday night, claiming his spending polices to revive the economy were leading America to socialism.

"When you consider that the federal government is about $11 trillion in debt, and we're borrowing more to spend more ... it defies any sensible economic policy any of us ever learned through college," the former Republican vice presidential candidate told Sean Hannity in a Fox News interview.

"It defies economy practices and principles that tell ya 'you gotta quit digging that hole when you are in that financial hole.'"

Her comments came as the White House acknowledged it has spent only $44 billion, or 5 percent, of the $787 billion stimulus so far - a total that has always been expected to rise sharply this summer.

Palin, the governor of Alaska and one of the most popular elected Republican officials, went on to rail against the government takeover of the auto industry.





http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009/06/08/2009-06-08_sarah_palin_rips_president_obama.html


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10478103 - 06/09/09 03:31 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

"When you consider that the federal government is about $11 trillion in debt, and we're borrowing more to spend more ... it defies any sensible economic policy any of us ever learned through college,"

How much economics did they teach her in that journalism degree of hers?


--------------------
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zouden]
    #10478126 - 06/09/09 03:35 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

More than they taught Barry at law school, apparently.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10478137 - 06/09/09 03:38 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

:lol: right.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10478201 - 06/09/09 04:54 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
If you are going to mention her experience then it is only relevant in comparison to other people's experience.





Which is an interesting way of saying that you cannot say anything good about your heroine, and have to rely upon deflection.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: TGRR]
    #10478343 - 06/09/09 05:21 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I love her and want her to spank me.  Is that good enough?
She is also quite correct about the Lightworker's nonsense and she did in fact warn about it several months ago.  All of which are things I have written about her in the past.  Your failure to stay current on your reading assignments is not an indication that they were not written.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10478497 - 06/09/09 05:49 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I love her and want her to spank me.  Is that good enough?





That will do nicely.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: TGRR]
    #10479062 - 06/09/09 07:45 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

TGRR said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I love her and want her to spank me.  Is that good enough?





That will do nicely.




he's gonna have to wait in line! :grin:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Seuss]
    #10482401 - 06/10/09 12:40 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

'Cut the Mike'

The Letterman/Palin Controversy






I love how this NBC reporter asks why Sarah Palin has a problem being called a slut and then claims "its no big deal"

"I can cope gracefully with them”

"I can handle them"

I'm still here!" and Palin should do the same.


She then ends the interview and Demands the mic be cut for “insults” about NBC media bias right after she said that she can handle insults just fine?



its like these normally smart people lose their fucking minds because of the hate they have for Sarah Palin....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: johnm214]
    #10483271 - 06/10/09 03:43 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

johnm214 writes:

Quote:

By actions I'm not refering only to official actions as mayor or governor, I'm including policy positions and implicit support of various issues.




Again, I ask you to provide specific policy positions advanced by Palin to support your assumptions. Note that giving one's opinion on a certain subject when asked is not the same thing as promoting a specific policy. For example, she is honest in saying - when asked - that she opposes abortion. Yet none of her policy initiatives have anything to do with attempting to alter exiting abortion laws. This, by the way, makes her no different than the hundreds of other politicians who also oppose abortion but propose no changes to existing abortion laws.

And of course there was the recent widely-reported Gallup poll showing the majority of Americans polled consider themselves pro-life. Sarah Palin's position on the issue is the mainstream position.

Quote:

Anyways, I'm referring to Palin's support of victimless crimes like our drug laws (perhaps more accurately not supporting changes to them)...




And again this double standard. Why is it only Sarah Palin who receives your blistering and outspoken contempt, when in actual fact no politician of any prominence to speak of has made it a policy to stump for the reform of existing drug laws? Sarah Palin's position on this is the mainstream position.

Quote:

....opposition to equal treatment of homosexuals by the government in marriage licensure...




Again, why the singling out of Sarah Palin on this issue? Obama himself opposes gay marriage. Hell, even the citizens of freaking California - not Utah, mind you, but California - showed in no unmistakable terms that they oppose gay marriage. Sarah Palin's position on this is the mainstream position.

None of the lame examples you've dredged up illustrate any kind of hypocrisy when compared to her statements re the dangers of expanding government control over the American populace. And that apparently was your entire point - "Sarah Palin has some nerve complaining about increasing government control when you look at all the government control she has increased! Or, if not increased, supported. Or, if not supported, failed to revoke!"






Phred


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OfflineTHC Titan
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Phred]
    #10483351 - 06/10/09 04:01 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:And again this double standard. Why is it only Sarah Palin who receives your blistering and outspoken contempt, when in actual fact no politician of any prominence to speak of has made it a policy to stump for the reform of existing drug laws? Sarah Palin's position on this is the mainstream position.




Ron Paul, Barney Frank, and Jim Webb (this guy's theme is more about prison reform I suppose). Kucinich and Gravel, maybe. Some other representatives. Also there are some governors that would sign a bill decriminalizing weed.

I would wager that Palin is receiving heat here because she actually campaigns strongly for limited government as a Republican yet doesn't support legalizing a plant that is prevalent all over the world and has become deeply entrenched in our culture for the better part of a century. In addition it offers a cheaper alternative to expensive pharmaceuticals.

Truth is, Palin is just another politician who wishes Reagan could be resurrected and reelected and tries to fit the bill as a similar type of conservative.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10483363 - 06/10/09 04:05 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Lonestar writes:

Quote:


I love how this NBC reporter asks why Sarah Palin has a problem being called a slut and then claims "its no big deal"





Yep. She doesn't mind being called a slut but gets all bent out of shape when Ziegler mocks MSNBC. To the point of telling the producer to cut his microphone.

By the way, she claims she has been called a slut "in public". By whom? When? Where? Is she talking about comments made to her by  schoolmates after the Senior prom or what?

Cuz I know how much that stings.






Phred


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Phred]
    #10483374 - 06/10/09 04:09 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

funny stuff! that video made my day! :rofl:


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: THC Titan]
    #10483383 - 06/10/09 04:11 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ron Paul, Barney Frank, and Jim Webb (this guy's theme is more about prison reform I suppose). Kucinich and Gravel, maybe. Some other representatives. Also there are some governors that would sign a bill decriminalizing weed.




And you can of course link for us the House resolutions or bills introduced, I'm sure.

Face facts, dude. The only state where marijuana was legalized (for a while) was Alaska, and Palin as an Alaskan politician quite cheerfully went along with the will of the Alaskan people on that one. I don't recall her campaigning against the bill making it legal. Nor do I recall her campaigning to get that bill revoked.




Phred


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InvisibleBrasco
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Phred]
    #10484223 - 06/10/09 06:51 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I think what is pathetic in this whole thing is how several former prominent Republicans (Cheney, Gingrich, Palin, etc..) are flailing about and blathering on TV constantly in an attempt to remain relevant and to try to bring focus to a defeated and disheartened party.

Gingrich is a political dinosaur and a divisive character.  Cheney is a hypocritical douchebag.  Palin is an inexperienced and naive novice.  These are the so-called leaders we should look to in the Republican Party?  Absolutely pathetic.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Phred]
    #10484255 - 06/10/09 06:56 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

Ron Paul, Barney Frank, and Jim Webb (this guy's theme is more about prison reform I suppose). Kucinich and Gravel, maybe. Some other representatives. Also there are some governors that would sign a bill decriminalizing weed.




And you can of course link for us the House resolutions or bills introduced, I'm sure.

Face facts, dude. The only state where marijuana was legalized (for a while) was Alaska, and Palin as an Alaskan politician quite cheerfully went along with the will of the Alaskan people on that one. I don't recall her campaigning against the bill making it legal. Nor do I recall her campaigning to get that bill revoked.




Phred




...Well, yes, Palin wouldn't have been campaigning against the bill, seeing as she was around 14 at the time.

Edited by inkblot (06/10/09 06:57 PM)

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Brasco]
    #10484292 - 06/10/09 07:01 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Brasco said:
I think what is pathetic in this whole thing is how several former prominent Republicans (Cheney, Gingrich, Palin, etc..) are flailing about and blathering on TV constantly in an attempt to remain relevant and to try to bring focus to a defeated and disheartened party.

Gingrich is a political dinosaur and a divisive character.  Cheney is a hypocritical douchebag.  Palin is an inexperienced and naive novice.  These are the so-called leaders we should look to in the Republican Party?  Absolutely pathetic.




Flagrantly ignorant and stupid all at once.  What do you think is hypocritical about Cheney?  What do you think is inexperienced about Palin that cannot be applied to the retard thug in office right now?  I suspect that you have no interest whatsoever in Republican leadership.  Because you are  in no way conservative, are you?


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Phred]
    #10484350 - 06/10/09 07:11 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:And you can of course link for us the House resolutions or bills introduced, I'm sure.




Shit, dude, no problem.

http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/content/ron-paul-and-barney-frank-talk-about-marijuana-and-hemp

There's actually links to 3 separate bills concerning marijuana in that article.

Maybe you should face that fact that 12 states right now have protections for medical marijuana. Supporting marijuana reform isn't an outlandish idea in this day and age.

Quote:

Phred said:
By the way, she claims she has been called a slut "in public". By whom? When? Where? Is she talking about comments made to her by  schoolmates after the Senior prom or what?




On David Letterman. I didn't see it, but on the top 10 list he basically alluded to her appearance as a "slutty flight attendant".

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InvisibleBrasco
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10484373 - 06/10/09 07:14 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
What do you think is hypocritical about Cheney? 




Claiming to not be interested in nation building in the 90's but then becoming a cheerleader for the Iraq adventure which is just that.  Claiming to be appalled at Obama's fiscal recklessness but being a part of an administration which consistently ran monstrous deficits and which doubled the size of the federal debt.

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
What do you think is inexperienced about Palin that cannot be applied to the retard thug in office right now? 




Even though I am not a fan of Obama, at least he is articulate and has a grasp on policy and current events.

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I suspect that you have no interest whatsoever in Republican leadership.  Because you are  in no way conservative, are you?




I actually do.  I am a conservative, but I believe that the Republican Party has been perverted by the neocons.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Brasco]
    #10484487 - 06/10/09 07:29 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Brasco said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
What do you think is hypocritical about Cheney? 




Claiming to not be interested in nation building in the 90's but then becoming a cheerleader for the Iraq adventure which is just that.



Iraq adventure?  That's humorous.  Cheerleader?  Even more humorous.  He was an actual leader, like the quarterback.  And there is no nation building involved.  Just the prosecution of an international criminal.
Quote:


Claiming to be appalled at Obama's fiscal recklessness but being a part of an administration which consistently ran monstrous deficits and which doubled the size of the federal debt.


  My goodness, yet another child who thinks that a President who doesn't control the Congress can run up hideous bills.  Can you say "Quadruple"?  Of course you can.  Because you've been to collidge.
Quote:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
What do you think is inexperienced about Palin that cannot be applied to the retard thug in office right now? 




Even though I am not a fan of Obama, at least he is articulate and has a grasp on policy and current events.



Dude, he thinks Austrian is a language.  Wake the fuck up.  He's a fucking moron.
Quote:



Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I suspect that you have no interest whatsoever in Republican leadership.  Because you are  in no way conservative, are you?




I actually do.  I am a conservative, but I believe that the Republican Party has been perverted by the neocons.




And I think that the neocons, which I suspect you have zero understanding of, are the least of the reasons for the Republicans failing to win elections.  Perhaps if the Republican Party had not morphed into the Spend Like Democrat Whores Party they would still be in power.  But they bought into the seduction that ruins anyone who gets to DC.  I must do or therefor I am not.  Too bad.  Sometimes nothing is the best course of action.


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InvisibleBrasco
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10484577 - 06/10/09 07:38 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
And there is no nation building involved.  Just the prosecution of an international criminal.




You choose to ignore the billions being spent on Iraqi infrastructure and the training of Iraqi forces?  The exercise we are involved in is quite obviously nation building.  We are attempting to solidify a stable and friendly regime in the Middle East so that we can have another ally and so that we obtain access to their oil.

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
My goodness, yet another child who thinks that a President who doesn't control the Congress can run up hideous bills.  Can you say "Quadruple"?  Of course you can.  Because you've been to collidge.




Do you remember President Bush using his clout to support the Medicare prescription drug plan?  Did you notice that it was Bush who signed those budget bills that ran those large deficits?  Cheney was a part of an administration which campaigned on fiscal conservatism and which did the exact opposite.

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Dude, he thinks Austrian is a language.  Wake the fuck up.  He's a fucking moron.




A guy who is a graduate of Harvard Law School is not a moron.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: THC Titan]
    #10485938 - 06/11/09 12:23 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

THC Titan said:
I would wager that Palin is receiving heat here because she actually campaigns strongly for limited government as a Republican yet doesn't support legalizing a plant that is prevalent all over the world and has become deeply entrenched in our culture for the better part of a century. In addition it offers a cheaper alternative to expensive pharmaceuticals.





I'm yet to see anything from anyone that backs this statement,
show us where in her own words she's said this, show us her
record for these stiffer penalties

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Brasco]
    #10485942 - 06/11/09 12:25 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Brasco said:
A guy who is a graduate of Harvard Law School is not a moron.





a middle of the road graduate

would a Yale graduate be considered a moron?

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10486286 - 06/11/09 02:18 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:a middle of the road graduate

would a Yale graduate be considered a moron?




Gotta be at least in the top 10% to get magna cum laude.

And Yale? Or Yale Law? I would wager that morons could potentially come out of either place, so it depends. I can think of one that got in on legacy from his father, and ended up being a very average student.

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: THC Titan]
    #10486310 - 06/11/09 02:34 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I can think of several from both schools that turned out to be
morons, one from each that were morons and presidents

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10486352 - 06/11/09 03:00 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

You have a very wide definition of 'moron' if you include both Obama and Bush.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zouden]
    #10487399 - 06/11/09 10:29 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

please, explain how there's a difference

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Phred]
    #10487776 - 06/11/09 12:01 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
johnm214 writes:

Quote:

By actions I'm not refering only to official actions as mayor or governor, I'm including policy positions and implicit support of various issues.




Again, I ask you to provide specific policy positions advanced by Palin to support your assumptions. Note that giving one's opinion on a certain subject when asked is not the same thing as promoting a specific policy. For example, she is honest in saying - when asked - that she opposes abortion. Yet none of her policy initiatives have anything to do with attempting to alter exiting abortion laws. This, by the way, makes her no different than the hundreds of other politicians who also oppose abortion but propose no changes to existing abortion laws.

And of course there was the recent widely-reported Gallup poll showing the majority of Americans polled consider themselves pro-life. Sarah Palin's position on the issue is the mainstream position.

Quote:

Anyways, I'm referring to Palin's support of victimless crimes like our drug laws (perhaps more accurately not supporting changes to them)...




And again this double standard. Why is it only Sarah Palin who receives your blistering and outspoken contempt, when in actual fact no politician of any prominence to speak of has made it a policy to stump for the reform of existing drug laws? Sarah Palin's position on this is the mainstream position.

Quote:

....opposition to equal treatment of homosexuals by the government in marriage licensure...




Again, why the singling out of Sarah Palin on this issue? Obama himself opposes gay marriage. Hell, even the citizens of freaking California - not Utah, mind you, but California - showed in no unmistakable terms that they oppose gay marriage. Sarah Palin's position on this is the mainstream position.

None of the lame examples you've dredged up illustrate any kind of hypocrisy when compared to her statements re the dangers of expanding government control over the American populace. And that apparently was your entire point - "Sarah Palin has some nerve complaining about increasing government control when you look at all the government control she has increased! Or, if not increased, supported. Or, if not supported, failed to revoke!"






Phred






How am I singling Palin out?  You ever read my posts, this is basically the reason I doubt I'll be voting for a mainstream popular party candidate for gubernatorial and presidential elections- and many others if possible.

This post was about palin and so I discussed her.  If that's singling out than I did so, but you have no perceivable basis to accuse me of particularly focusing on Palin- its just she's the one who's making these claims in this article, at least she claims to be on the right side of the issue.


Anyways, I've allready vaguely referred to what I'm criticising her for- here's the gist:

(from ontheissues.org )

Palin doesn’t support legalizing marijuana, worrying about the message it would send to her four kids. But when it comes to cracking down on drugs, she says methamphetamines are the greater threat and should have a higher priority.
Source: Anchorage Daily News, “Little play,” by K. Hopkins Aug 6, 2006


Q: In relationship to families, what are your top three priorities if elected governor?

A: 1. Creating an atmosphere where parents feel welcome to choose the venues of education for their children.
2. Preserving the definition of “marriage” as defined in our constitution.
3. Cracking down on the things that harm family life: gangs, drug use, and infringement of our liberties including attacks on our 2nd Amendment rights.
Source: Eagle Forum 2006 Gubernatorial Candidate Questionnaire Jul 31, 2006



Then the gay marriage stuff and claiming its an important issue, the apparent support for barring abortion in many cases at the state level, the nebulous "family values" shit which I have no idea what she's actually talking about.



There's plenty of other stuff in ontheissues, but I have no idea whether their summaries are accurate, and a bunch of them look misleading, so I won't refer to them (things like dna tests for felons and stuff are mentioned, but doesn't mention if its all felons or what- which I think should be unconstitutional unless court ordered pursuant to law).

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10489184 - 06/11/09 04:02 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
please, explain how there's a difference



If one is a moron then the other is some sort of super moron. Don't misunderestimate Bush's stupidity.

I'll take that back if Obama ends up saying more stupid things than Bush did, lies to the country in order to lead it into an unpopular, unnecessary and disastrous war, and raises global anti-American sentiment to unprecedented levels. So far he's had a much better and less-moronic track record than Bush.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zouden]
    #10489433 - 06/11/09 04:36 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
please, explain how there's a difference



If one is a moron then the other is some sort of super moron. Don't misunderestimate Bush's stupidity.





I see what you did there




Quote:

I'll take that back if Obama ends up saying more stupid things than Bush did, lies to the country in order to lead it into an unpopular, unnecessary and disastrous war, and raises global anti-American sentiment to unprecedented levels. So far he's had a much better and less-moronic track record than Bush.





are lies of omission also included, Obama is already rapidly approaching Bush's pile

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zouden]
    #10493390 - 06/12/09 09:43 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
please, explain how there's a difference



If one is a moron then the other is some sort of super moron. Don't misunderestimate Bush's stupidity.

I'll take that back if Obama ends up saying more stupid things than Bush did, lies to the country in order to lead it into an unpopular, unnecessary and disastrous war, and raises global anti-American sentiment to unprecedented levels. So far he's had a much better and less-moronic track record than Bush.




How silly.  He has already said a plethora of stupid things, far outstripping Bush.  How many states are there again?  Do you speak Austrian?  The fact that he has a press that can't enough Obama cock is the only reason you haven't heard it.  He has been protected and coddled like the retarded child. What lie?  What was unpopular about the Iraq war?  Do you know that Congress decides whether to go to war and not the President and that the vote was overwhelming?  Do you know that Bush was more popular than Obama at the same point in his career?  Please explain to me how a diminution of "global anti-Americanism" is indicative of a good job by the President of the United States of America.  I don't give two fucking shits what you or anybody else thinks of America.  You are at best honest competitors.  He is supposed to represent my interests, not yours.  We don't pay this asshole to be your buddy.


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10493436 - 06/12/09 09:54 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
  He has been protected and coddled like the retarded child.





ain't that the truth.

could you imagine if someone like jay Leno reported that Michelle Obama looks like a whore and made jokes about adult men having sex with her children?

the media would be in full blown fucking meltdown. instead the MSM is telling Palin just to deal with it....


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zappaisgod]
    #10493448 - 06/12/09 09:57 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

far outstripping Bush



:rolleyes:
Do you really want to make this into a competition to find stupid things Obama and Bush have said? Because Bush has quite a head start. And you've already mentioned Obama's most famous gaffes.

Wake me up when Obama has his 'Mission Accomplished' moment.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zouden]
    #10493533 - 06/12/09 10:14 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Do you know what a "mission" is?  The "mission" in question had been accomplished.  Which "mission" was the removal of Saddam Hussein from power and the dismantling of the Iraq armed forces.  Of courses if you chose to falsely declare that the "mission" referred to was the end of cancer, poverty, energy problems and AIDS, all terrorism and communist oppression, graft, theft and murder, then yeah, you could make it appear stupid.  But you would be building a straw man.  Surely you wouldn't be doing that, would you?


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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zouden]
    #10493544 - 06/12/09 10:18 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

And far be it for the C-I-C to encourage the troops he leads and give them a hearty thumbs up for a job well done.  Totally inappropriate and utterly idiotic.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zouden]
    #10493558 - 06/12/09 10:22 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I agree with zappa.

In 6 months Obama has done more idiotic things than 8 years of Bush. thats even with Obama and his fucking Teleprompter that he never leaves home without!!

on a side note why do you have such an interest in American politicians like George Bush and Obama?

i love politics but i couldn't tell you who the current president of Australia is, or any other former Australian presidents before him for that matter....


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10493696 - 06/12/09 11:06 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
i love politics but i couldn't tell you who the current president of Australia is, or any other former Australian presidents before him for that matter....





Kevin Rudd... he's a cutie, he was preceded by John Howard

the position is Prime Minister, it it an important distinction
when you're establishing ministries like ministry of defense,
ministry of health, ministry of screwing the populace

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10495939 - 06/12/09 07:44 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
on a side note why do you have such an interest in American politicians like George Bush and Obama?

i love politics but i couldn't tell you who the current president of Australia is, or any other former Australian presidents before him for that matter....




I have an interest in everything that has ever happened in the world :shrug:

And yeah, we don't have a president, instead the role is split between the executive (Prime Minister) and the head of state (Governor-General). Our current PM was swept to power in 2007 on a wave of popularity, exactly like Obama. People have drawn many parallels between our situation and yours.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zouden]
    #10516002 - 06/16/09 09:47 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zouden said:
Our current PM was swept to power in 2007 on a wave of popularity, exactly like Obama.






52% of the popular vote is a " wave of popularity"???


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2008


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineTHC Titan
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10516262 - 06/16/09 10:37 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Quote:

zouden said:
Our current PM was swept to power in 2007 on a wave of popularity, exactly like Obama.






52% of the popular vote is a " wave of popularity"???


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2008




You're probably speaking out of ignorance from not being an academic, but yeah, 53% is considered a large victory by political scientists who keep track of such statistics.

The electoral map was also massively in favor of Obama.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: THC Titan]
    #10516284 - 06/16/09 10:46 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

seems that 53% and the electorals are pretty ignorant too, they voted for him

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10516389 - 06/16/09 11:15 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
seems that 53% and the electorals are pretty ignorant too, they voted for him




They are way beyond ignorant.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Offlinezouden
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10517971 - 06/16/09 03:46 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

lonestar2004 said:
Quote:

zouden said:
Our current PM was swept to power in 2007 on a wave of popularity, exactly like Obama.






52% of the popular vote is a " wave of popularity"???


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2008




Aren't you the one who coined the term 'Obamessiah'?


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zouden]
    #10518052 - 06/16/09 04:01 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

many people refer to him as the "messiah" or the "Chosen one" because he can do no wrong in the eyes of his followers and the media.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezouden
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10518087 - 06/16/09 04:07 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

People called him that before the election. It's silly to deny that he was, and still is, extremely popular.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: zouden]
    #10518168 - 06/16/09 04:24 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I'm feeling confident (almost cocky) that his super "Popularity" will cause him to lose a Democratic majority in either the house or senate.


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledjmako7
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: lonestar2004]
    #10519219 - 06/16/09 07:36 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Why do people believe everything on the net and then they quote it like it is the truth?

I could edit that wiki page if I wanted to or you could too.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: djmako7]
    #10519411 - 06/16/09 08:02 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

djmako7 said:
Why do people believe everything on the net and then they quote it like it is the truth?

I could edit that wiki page if I wanted to or you could too.





what?

do you think that Obama got more than 52.9% of the popular vote?


prove it!


i dare ya!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: djmako7]
    #10520799 - 06/17/09 12:25 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

djmako7 said:
Why do people believe everything on the net and then they quote it like it is the truth?

I could edit that wiki page if I wanted to or you could too.





you sure could, it can also be reverted back, it can also be locked
but regardless, there's sources listed for most of the info


http://obamamessiah.blogspot.com

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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Palin: Government wants to 'control the people' [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #10522573 - 06/17/09 08:31 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:



http://obamamessiah.blogspot.com




Damn!


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama

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