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 solstice
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 Re: Did you find religion because of psychedelics?  [Re: lsatrap]
#10864719 - 08/15/09 01:14 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
lsatrap said:
Why do you guys get so mad about Christianity?
Are you kidding? But since you asked... don't get mad at me answer.
Christianity is a joke. Basically, it's an hydrid religion that came about when judaism went north towards Europe and used pagan beliefs and symbols to establish a new cult. In fact no, it's not a religion, it's mere ritual.
Genuine religion should get you somewhere. Ritual is an empty shell that looks all shiny and well but when comes the time to unwrap it and look inside, nothing is to be found!
Add to that the centuries of crusade and missions intended at " spreading the good news " and " teach those primitives how to worship " and you get a very dangerous formula that instead of doing good, more than often does very bad. It kills and hurts and destroys those who opposes it.
Don't misinterpret me though, I am not only talking about christianity. I am also talking about judaism and islam which are two other monotheistic flavors that boiled down from the same patriarch, Abraham.
Patriarchy doesn't work if it's not kept in check and christianity is a shining exemple.
It's so easy to believe that the religion inside of which you were born is the right one is it not?
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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung
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lsatrap
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Re: Did you find religion because of psychedelics? [Re: solstice]
#10864768 - 08/15/09 01:25 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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cpw1971 said:
I dunno why religion and psychedelics are used in the same sentence here.
Spirituality is more like it.
Religion is nothing like spirituality.
Religion is about controlling the sheep.
Religion wiped out most of the true spirituality 2000 years ago.
What you refer to as "God" is actually the all knowing being that makes up the fabric of this reality. He talked to me on my last Salvia level 5 experience.
And he will talk to all not afraid of him. He also is the fabric of other realities. On his level of consciousness the air is as solid as stone. Or should I say all matter is the same solidity. And all matter is connected including us to everything and all dimensions.
You will never talk to him by going to "Church".
Psychedelics are the way.... or death.
And different keys "psychedelics" open different doorways as Terrence Mckenna said.
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solstice said:
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lsatrap said:
Why do you guys get so mad about Christianity?
Are you kidding? But since you asked... don't get mad at me answer.
Christianity is a joke. Basically, it's an hydrid religion that came about when judaism went north towards Europe and used pagan beliefs and symbols to establish a new cult. In fact no, it's not a religion, it's mere ritual.
Genuine religion should get you somewhere. Ritual is an empty shell that looks all shiny and well but when comes the time to unwrap it and look inside, nothing is to be found!
Add to that the centuries of crusade and missions intended at " spreading the good news " and " teach those primitives how to worship " and you get a very dangerous formula that instead of doing good, more than often does very bad. It kills and hurts and destroys those who opposes it.
Don't misinterpret me though, I am not only talking about christianity. I am also talking about judaism and islam which are two other monotheistic flavors that boiled down from the same patriarch, Abraham.
Patriarchy doesn't work if it's not kept in check and christianity is a shining exemple.
It's so easy to believe that the religion inside of which you were born is the right one is it not?
First off I never get mad when discussing religion or the lack of religion.
(Ritual is an empty shell that looks all shiny and well but when comes the time to unwrap it and look inside, nothing is to be found! This may be true for you but, for others they do find something and it's not just an empty shell.) I do believe that man came in and really screwed things up in the church, out of the church where ever we put our filthy hands and filthy souls. That is why there is a savior because , we as humans can't do shit. We been here for years and years. all of us screw up at best. For centuries we've been sinful and sin only leads to death.
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solstice
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Re: Did you find religion because of psychedelics? [Re: lsatrap]
#10864802 - 08/15/09 01:33 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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our filthy hands and filthy souls. That is why there is a savior because , we as humans can't do shit. We been here for years and years. all of us screw up at best. For centuries we've been sinful and sin only leads to death.
Life leads to death, not sins. You see? That's exactly what I can't agree with, christianity wise. This idea that we are sinners and filthy.
Can you see what's wrong with that?
You were born and told from the start that you are a filthy sinner. Any psychologists will tell you that chances are good that you will turn out to be a screw up if you are told enough times.
We as humans can't do shit... Damn! That's a nice attitude trooper! You keep waiting for this hypothetical savior while the rest of us pull back our sleeves and make it happen alright?
For centuries we have been sinful... Yes! Since the friggin' church established itself we were! Before that we were living, simply living and appreciating it, appreciating existing but then church and man made moral codes made us look bad and shit hit the fan.
You say the church became corrupted. Well I say that without institutions like the church, corruption would have a lot less fertile soil to grow.
The church could not be if christianity wasn't.
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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung
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silosighbin
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Re: Did you find religion because of psychedelics? [Re: lsatrap]
#10864803 - 08/15/09 01:33 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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My question is, why do people always talk shit about Christianity but not minority religions like Judaism and especially not Islam which is a complete crock of shit
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solstice
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Re: Did you find religion because of psychedelics? [Re: silosighbin]
#10864814 - 08/15/09 01:36 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
silosighbin said:
My question is, why do people always talk shit about Christianity but not minority religions like Judaism and especially not Islam which is a complete crock of shit
Ahaha. Islam followers: 4 billions and still counting. Christians: 1 billion. Judaism? The origin of the other two.
Minority religion? Those three fuckin' rule the world!
Why not talk about Hare Krishnas instead?
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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung
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lsatrap
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Re: Did you find religion because of psychedelics? [Re: solstice]
#10864924 - 08/15/09 02:05 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
solstice said:
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our filthy hands and filthy souls. That is why there is a savior because , we as humans can't do shit. We been here for years and years. all of us screw up at best. For centuries we've been sinful and sin only leads to death.
Life leads to death, not sins. You see? That's exactly what I can't agree with, christianity wise. This idea that we are sinners and filthy.
Can you see what's wrong with that?
You were born and told from the start that you are a filthy sinner. Any psychologists will tell you that chances are good that you will turn out to be a screw up if you are told enough times.
We as humans can't do shit... Damn! That's a nice attitude trooper! You keep waiting for this hypothetical savior while the rest of us pull back our sleeves and make it happen alright?
For centuries we have been sinful... Yes! Since the friggin' church established itself we were! Before that we were living, simply living and appreciating it, appreciating existing but then church and man made moral codes made us look bad and shit hit the fan.
You say the church became corrupted. Well I say that without institutions like the church, corruption would have a lot less fertile soil to grow.
The church could not be if christianity wasn't.
I was not speaking of physical death. I was speaking of spiritual death. I can tell from your speaking your unpersaudible. Even though that's not my intention. We are born filthy. you ever hated,killed someone with in your mind? Have you ever sinned at all.It sound to me your scared to be held accountable for your sins.Christianity scares the nonbeliever. It holds you accountable. Here's a ?. for you. Why is it that among the people in my life that I sat with on their deathbeds the ones that believe in Christ as their savior died peacefully. they even spoke saying I'm ready your so beautiful lets go and the ones that didn't believe just saw an empty hole of darkness.One even said I see a hole there for me I know it's not there but, it is.I know this hole that I see is for me and it's empty...
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 Swyfty Swyf
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Re: Did you find religion because of psychedelics? [Re: lsatrap]
#10864996 - 08/15/09 02:27 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think it's funny when people think they can speak with more certainty about God's existence, because of a trip.
What makes those folks so sure that they have communed with God, and they're weren't just going through the effects of the drug?
Wishful thinking.
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If you build it they will shrug.
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solstice
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Re: Did you find religion because of psychedelics? [Re: lsatrap]
#10865169 - 08/15/09 03:15 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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lsatrap said:
Quote:
solstice said:
Quote:
our filthy hands and filthy souls. That is why there is a savior because , we as humans can't do shit. We been here for years and years. all of us screw up at best. For centuries we've been sinful and sin only leads to death.
Life leads to death, not sins. You see? That's exactly what I can't agree with, christianity wise. This idea that we are sinners and filthy.
Can you see what's wrong with that?
You were born and told from the start that you are a filthy sinner. Any psychologists will tell you that chances are good that you will turn out to be a screw up if you are told enough times.
We as humans can't do shit... Damn! That's a nice attitude trooper! You keep waiting for this hypothetical savior while the rest of us pull back our sleeves and make it happen alright?
For centuries we have been sinful... Yes! Since the friggin' church established itself we were! Before that we were living, simply living and appreciating it, appreciating existing but then church and man made moral codes made us look bad and shit hit the fan.
You say the church became corrupted. Well I say that without institutions like the church, corruption would have a lot less fertile soil to grow.
The church could not be if christianity wasn't.
I was not speaking of physical death. I was speaking of spiritual death. I can tell from your speaking your unpersaudible. Even though that's not my intention. We are born filthy. you ever hated,killed someone with in your mind? Have you ever sinned at all.It sound to me your scared to be held accountable for your sins.Christianity scares the nonbeliever. It holds you accountable. Here's a ?. for you. Why is it that among the people in my life that I sat with on their deathbeds the ones that believe in Christ as their savior died peacefully. they even spoke saying I'm ready your so beautiful lets go and the ones that didn't believe just saw an empty hole of darkness.One even said I see a hole there for me I know it's not there but, it is.I know this hole that I see is for me and it's empty...
Alright, sorry for the delay my saintly friend. I had to head out and buy some God particles ( spores ).
Here we go again...
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Have you ever sinned at all.
All the fuckin' time mate! But that doesn't mean that I should hate myself for it or that my spiritual practice should have my sinning tendencies as a starting point. While were on the topic, sins have only as much importance as you give them. For example, instead of sins we could use the word weakness. It sounds a lot less pejorative.
So yes I do have weaknesses ( sins ) but those don't make me want to rely on an institutionalised religion in the hope of becoming a better me.
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It sound to me your scared to be held accountable for your sins.Christianity scares the nonbeliever. It holds you accountable.
That one is a prime example of how this religion of yours manipulates the mind and the people. So you think that because I am not a christian I am an unbeliever?
Ah!
Oh I believe, believe me when I say that but I don't need a structure to practice my spirituality. In spirituality, as in anything else I do, I elaborate my own structure. Seems to me that you are trying to turn this around so the topic becomes centered on me and my own weaknesses while it should be about this institution of yours and it's faults. You asked why me and others dislike christianity and I responded. Why don't we stick to the topic instead of doing my trial?
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Here's a ?. for you. Why is it that among the people in my life that I sat with on their deathbeds the ones that believe in Christ as their savior died peacefully.
The question gives it's own answer friend. Because these people had faith in a perticular type of after-life. This gave them confidence when facing death.
That doesn't mean that your religion is a good thing. I can generate my own belief based on direct experience instead of relying on a book written by men so that I die peacefully.
Those who are sure can be also sure that they are wrong because no one can be sure of anything in this world.
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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung
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Poptart
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Re: Did you find religion because of psychedelics? [Re: Swyfty Swyf]
#10865212 - 08/15/09 03:28 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I haven't read this whole thread but I just read a couple posts on this thread so I will try and just jump in from here.
I think jesus christ was probably one of the most if not the most spiritually awake people to ever walk the face of the earth.
He spoke the truth but spoke in alot of parables that were easily misunderstood by the masses and were quickly corrupted. And now instead of people deriving wisdom from their inner self they look outward towards jesus or some other enlightened being and they lose their way.
Almost all religions and spiritual teachers (Christ, Budda, Gandhi ect.) are just fingers pointing towards the moon and most people mistake the finger for the moon especially christians. Whats worse is when people say that only their religion is pointing in the right direction. Don't blame Christ for christianity being a shit religion.
I had to drop the dogma I picked up from my parents and I went to go study all the other religions only to find that none of them spoke the truth because the truth can't be spoken. The only truth is found in silence.
Let everything and everyone be your teacher.
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lsatrap
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Re: Did you find religion because of psychedelics? [Re: Poptart]
#10865385 - 08/15/09 04:08 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I want you to know I never have claimed or would ever claim to be a saint. I've done far to many things that would rule me out as a saint. I don't attend church any longer. I no longer learn from it. So the friends and family that saw something as they were dying were just seeing an illusion of some kind manifested by their faith.Seems strange to me. Solstice do you have faith in anything? I truly wonder..Do you believe at all in a higher power a creator? What do you believe in?When I say nonbeliever I mean you don't believe that Christ is the first risen and through Him we are too. I don't hate myself for sinning but, I do think it was necessary for me to be cleaned through Christ. I believe that the cross is our bridge to Heaven.The only way we can even get anywhere close to the presence of God is though Christ. I was not manipulated. I was enlightened.
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At this moment you should be with us, feeling like we do.
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eisenhower
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Re: Did you find religion because of psychedelics? [Re: Poptart]
#10865392 - 08/15/09 04:09 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poptart said:
I haven't read this whole thread but I just read a couple posts on this thread so I will try and just jump in from here.
I think jesus christ was probably one of the most if not the most spiritually awake people to ever walk the face of the earth.
He spoke the truth but spoke in alot of parables that were easily misunderstood by the masses and were quickly corrupted. And now instead of people deriving wisdom from their inner self they look outward towards jesus or some other enlightened being and they lose their way.
Almost all religions and spiritual teachers (Christ, Budda, Gandhi ect.) are just fingers pointing towards the moon and most people mistake the finger for the moon especially christians. Whats worse is when people say that only their religion is pointing in the right direction. Don't blame Christ for christianity being a shit religion.
I had to drop the dogma I picked up from my parents and I went to go study all the other religions only to find that none of them spoke the truth because the truth can't be spoken. The only truth is found in silence.
Let everything and everyone be your teacher.
Jesus made zero contributions towards anything. His role as a scapegoat is repulsive; that you can be freed of your wrongdoings by placing your sins on someone and nailing him to a plank of wood is cowardly.
My favorite bit of rubbish from jesus is his maxim: "Love your enemies"
Seems like an empty statement, to say you love someone but also acknowledge that they are your enemy. A more intelligent code of conduct would be "Have no enemies".
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lsatrap
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Re: Did you find religion because of psychedelics? [Re: eisenhower]
#10865413 - 08/15/09 04:13 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Once you learn to love your enemy they are no longer your enemy.I've trespasses against people and I've had them trespass against me.Once you truly have in your heart to forgive, then enemies are non existent.
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At this moment you should be with us, feeling like we do.
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Poptart
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Re: Did you find religion because of psychedelics? [Re: eisenhower]
#10865453 - 08/15/09 04:24 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
eisenhower said:
Quote:
Poptart said:
I haven't read this whole thread but I just read a couple posts on this thread so I will try and just jump in from here.
I think jesus christ was probably one of the most if not the most spiritually awake people to ever walk the face of the earth.
He spoke the truth but spoke in alot of parables that were easily misunderstood by the masses and were quickly corrupted. And now instead of people deriving wisdom from their inner self they look outward towards jesus or some other enlightened being and they lose their way.
Almost all religions and spiritual teachers (Christ, Budda, Gandhi ect.) are just fingers pointing towards the moon and most people mistake the finger for the moon especially christians. Whats worse is when people say that only their religion is pointing in the right direction. Don't blame Christ for christianity being a shit religion.
I had to drop the dogma I picked up from my parents and I went to go study all the other religions only to find that none of them spoke the truth because the truth can't be spoken. The only truth is found in silence.
Let everything and everyone be your teacher.
Jesus made zero contributions towards anything. His role as a scapegoat is repulsive; that you can be freed of your wrongdoings by placing your sins on someone and nailing him to a plank of wood is cowardly.
My favorite bit of rubbish from jesus is his maxim: "Love your enemies"
Seems like an empty statement, to say you love someone but also acknowledge that they are your enemy. A more intelligent code of conduct would be "Have no enemies".
You are putting words into my mouth.
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solstice
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Re: Did you find religion because of psychedelics? [Re: lsatrap]
#10865467 - 08/15/09 04:28 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
lsatrap said:
I want you to know I never have claimed or would ever claim to be a saint. I've done far to many things that would rule me out as a saint. I don't attend church any longer. I no longer learn from it. So the friends and family that saw something as they were dying were just seeing an illusion of some kind manifested by their faith.Seems strange to me. Solstice do you have faith in anything? I truly wonder..Do you believe at all in a higher power a creator? What do you believe in?When I say nonbeliever I mean you don't believe that Christ is the first risen and through Him we are too. I don't hate myself for sinning but, I do think it was necessary for me to be cleaned through Christ. I believe that the cross is our bridge to Heaven.The only way we can even get anywhere close to the presence of God is though Christ. I was not manipulated. I was enlightened.
Once again with the trial. It's always like that with you guys, comparing dicks and checking who's holier. I told you in my previous answer as I have explained in a previous post in this topic, I am a pagan. I believe in a higher power but what I don't believe in is those who claim to know what the mystery is made of. I believe in the mystery that's it and my way of communion with that mystery is the psychedelic experience, nature and the universe being the material manifestation of the mystery as well as the intermediatary between our separate consciousnesses and the higher one.
You should, because I have serious reasons to doubt that you have, study the roots of your religion from an objective standpoint. I suggest that you check out John Allegro's book:
That would be a great starting point for you to dig and realise that what the bible says is not to be taken litteraly as a true story that actually happened.
It's actually funny that you claim to be more enlightened than most christians because you don't go to church anymore. Still... you have the highest faith in a book! The same book that is used as a corner stone by the same church that you avoid! Don't see any contradiction there? Bah... It has become a trend for christians these days to say that church is bad, church is evil. However you guys spell it, that doesn't change the fact that you rely on the lies that have been coming from it for centuries.
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When I say nonbeliever I mean you don't believe that Christ is the first risen and through Him we are too.
That's fuckin' bull, and if that makes me a sinner so be it. That's binary thought at best.
" If that's not it, THIS has to be it "
Newsflash holyboy, things are much more complicated than that. Things are far more complex than you CAN suppose and if you think you've got it all figured out... well... you don't.
That's my thing bub, I believe in the mystery that is life, nothing more. And that makes me humble enough to admit that I cannot put a name on it nor can I claim to understand it. It's all about experience versus faith and the good news is; if you can't believe in a transcendental realm or reality, something that you cannot normally see, well, you can experience it since nature offers the means to do so and that my friend, renders faith completely obsolete.
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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung
Edited by solstice (08/15/09 04:30 PM)
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silosighbin
this is the apocalypse
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Re: Did you find religion because of psychedelics? [Re: solstice]
#10865573 - 08/15/09 04:51 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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solstice said:
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silosighbin said:
My question is, why do people always talk shit about Christianity but not minority religions like Judaism and especially not Islam which is a complete crock of shit
Ahaha. Islam followers: 4 billions and still counting. Christians: 1 billion. Judaism? The origin of the other two.
Minority religion? Those three fuckin' rule the world!
Why not talk about Hare Krishnas instead?
 you're avoiding the argument
and I clearly meant within the united states
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i am caustic
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solstice
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Re: Did you find religion because of psychedelics? [Re: silosighbin]
#10865591 - 08/15/09 04:54 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
silosighbin said:
Quote:
solstice said:
Quote:
silosighbin said:
My question is, why do people always talk shit about Christianity but not minority religions like Judaism and especially not Islam which is a complete crock of shit
Ahaha. Islam followers: 4 billions and still counting. Christians: 1 billion. Judaism? The origin of the other two.
Minority religion? Those three fuckin' rule the world!
Why not talk about Hare Krishnas instead?
you're avoiding the argument
and I clearly meant within the united states
Not clearly enough for me you didn't. And I'm not avoiding anything. The fact is, to answer your question in this new context, christianity is the most important religion on the US of A so it's much easier to see it's flaws since it's all over the place. And full of flaws it is...
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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung
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lsatrap
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Re: Did you find religion because of psychedelics? [Re: solstice]
#10865656 - 08/15/09 05:05 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm a sinner. I'll never dispute that. Solstice first off I'm really enjoying this debate with you. I love interaction with intelligent people such as yourself. It sounds to me that you more so worship the creations rather than the creator. I don't claim to know all the mysteries of life and death.I don't think we'll ever know in this life or any other. It seems to me your getting mad again. I'm just another asshole out here.Why take it like I'm persecuting you? BUB
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At this moment you should be with us, feeling like we do.
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solstice
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Re: Did you find religion because of psychedelics? [Re: lsatrap]
#10865709 - 08/15/09 05:19 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
lsatrap said:
I'm a sinner. I'll never dispute that. Solstice first off I'm really enjoying this debate with you. I love interaction with intelligent people such as yourself. It sounds to me that you more so worship the creations rather than the creator. I don't claim to know all the mysteries of life and death.I don't think we'll ever know in this life or any other. It seems to me your getting mad again. I'm just another asshole out here.Why take it like I'm persecuting you? BUB
Hey I'm not mad at all. In fact I'm having a blast as well.  As for worshipping creation instead of creator, that might very well be the main point where we part ways because to me, since creator is the only possible reality, nothing else can be worshipped. I'm a pantheist, not a polytheist unlike many pagans are and, to me, it is simple common sense to consider nature to be the deity's nourishing hands since my eyes cannot see IT. What can nature be if not the deity's interface? In my opinion, better to consider nature as the deity's face than believing in some intangible, invisible God because what can the creation be if not God's material emanation?
So in other words, why put faith in something you cannot see when what you can see is proof enough?
The second point we could never be able to reconcicle is the fact that the organisation you are part of is responsible for the worst crimes in the history of mankind. Crime against our own kin as well as crimes against the world itself.
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Man woke up in a world he did not understand and that is why he tries to interpret it - Carl Jung
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lsatrap
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Re: Did you find religion because of psychedelics? [Re: solstice]
#10865777 - 08/15/09 05:35 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Listen extremism on any level is dangerous. It doesn't matter if you claim Jesus or Alla or even yourself for that matter.if your willing to kill in the name of anything your missing the whole picture...The people that claim to be in my so called group of people(Christians)that kill in the name of Jesus are people that have high jacked religion. I believe that God gave us nature to use to also learn from but, nature didn't create nature...
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At this moment you should be with us, feeling like we do.
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Poptart
Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 1,821
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: Did you find religion because of psychedelics? [Re: lsatrap]
#10865839 - 08/15/09 05:47 PM (14 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
lsatrap said:
Listen extremism on any level is dangerous. It doesn't matter if you claim Jesus or Alla or even yourself for that matter.if your willing to kill in the name of anything your missing the whole picture...The people that claim to be in my so called group of people(Christians)that kill in the name of Jesus are people that have high jacked religion. I believe that God gave us nature to use to also learn from but, nature didn't create nature...
If nature didn't creat nature then what did?
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