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Offlineshroomey
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Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 11
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: Shotgun terrarium modification: Introducing extra warmth & humidity [Re: ScientificClown]
    #9855082 - 02/24/09 10:00 AM (15 years, 26 days ago)

Hi ScientificClown,

Very thorough, very informed info there - thanks! Unfortunately, I won't be pursuing this design any further - see my other answer below :wink:

Cheers!

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Offlineshroomey
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Re: Shotgun terrarium modification: Introducing extra warmth & humidity [Re: Nibin]
    #9855230 - 02/24/09 10:24 AM (15 years, 26 days ago)

Hey all,

Thanks everybody for their comments. You're a great, helpful bunch - I guess I should start giving star ratings to people..! :smile:

As far as the terrarium is concerned, I decided I could not bear the thought of a pool of still, warm water under my babies - everything about it shouts "contamination"... Even with bleach in the water, I still had doubts about its performance, and testing it would mean sacrificing a couple of boxes - and guess who's too cheap for that :wink:

Anyway, I'm a big fan of keeping things simple and minimal, so I was going to try a lamp-heated shotgun terrarium, but it turns out that due to the very low temperatures in my flat, I would need to use at least two lamps - and according to my newly-acquired psychrometer, this dried up the air big time.

So I finally decided to compromise a little on simplicity and make another tub-in-tub, and combine this with the straight perlite terrarium. That is to say, it lacks holes for FAE, but now there's as much (steady) warmth as I like, plus plenty of humidity (my psychrometer is screaming with joy in there... :wink:). I can always fan the thing 1-2 times a day, and from what I read that should be enough.

Again, thanks everyone for their comments - I'll keep you people posted when I have results - hopefully within 2-3 weeks time :smile:

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Shotgun terrarium modification: Introducing extra warmth & humidity [Re: ScientificClown]
    #9855262 - 02/24/09 10:30 AM (15 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

ScientificClown said:


as the air in a terrarium is not confined





Quote:

ScientificClown said:

particularly in a confined environment like a terrarium.




Sorry, but you can't have it both ways, especially in the same post. 

The shotgun terrarium is based on solid engineering, and it works.  I've not seen one yet made per the tek, that doesn't maintain mid to upper 90% humidity AND lots of fresh air, which is the number 1 pinning trigger.  New growers spend way too much energy worrying about humidity, and not enough worrying about fresh air. Four to five air exchanges PER HOUR is recommended for proper pinning performance and suppression of contaminants. The shotgun terrarium solves both problems, and it works.

You don't artificially heat a terrarium.  If you do, the interaction of the warm moist air inside with the cooler air on the outside, causes condensation on the walls, which STEALS the humidity, thus drying out the air.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Offlineshroomey
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Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: Shotgun terrarium modification: Introducing extra warmth & humidity [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #9855411 - 02/24/09 10:55 AM (15 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:

The shotgun terrarium solves both problems, and it works.






Ah, if it also solved the heating problem..! (that was and still is my original problem, after all) It's rough here up North, with the inside of some flats often falling to the lower 60's when no one's in and the heating is off... :S

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:

You don't artificially heat a terrarium.  If you do, the interaction of the warm moist air inside with the cooler air on the outside, causes condensation on the walls, which STEALS the humidity, thus drying out the air.





Like I said above, the reading of my psychrometer inside my (heated) TIT terrarium seems to be pretty good - always at about 0.5 degrees (in C) or less difference between the dry and wet bulbs... That's about 95% RH :smile:

I'm wondering, perhaps the fact that the inner tub in a TIT is warmed from the _outside_ (there's heated water around the sides as well as under the bottom) alleviates the problem of condensation? After all, both sides of the bottom & walls of the inner tub are at the same temp..? Of course, the lid on top doesn't accommodate heated water, but I found that using two lids with sealed air in between makes for some nice insulation...

Then again, I _do_ have a layer of perlite underneath, soaked halfway into water... :smile:

Of course, no easy FAE, but I guess I can't have everything - good fanning to me...

If I trust my intuition and the readings on the psychrometer, this setup seems to be working out pretty fine. Then again, everything's so wet in there (I also mist around...) that it's hard to tell if there is any condensation... Time will tell - a few weeks from now I expect my first pins..!

BTW, is there such a thing as too much RH?

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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: Shotgun terrarium modification: Introducing extra warmth & humidity [Re: shroomey]
    #9855464 - 02/24/09 11:03 AM (15 years, 26 days ago)

You dont want your perlite soaked. Perlite swimming in water wont do anything for humidity, standing water is also a breading ground for bacteria.


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek

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Offlineqwerty212
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Registered: 05/30/09
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Re: Shotgun terrarium modification: Introducing extra warmth & humidity [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10449930 - 06/03/09 08:16 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Im not a mushroom expert but as far as I know Charles law says that pressure is directly proportional to heat so if the air was hot it would only have a higher pressure. So if Im right RR's theory wouldnt be a reason for it not working.

Edited by qwerty212 (06/03/09 08:17 PM)

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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: Shotgun terrarium modification: Introducing extra warmth & humidity [Re: qwerty212]
    #10450000 - 06/03/09 08:27 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Charles's law (also known as the law of volumes) is an experimental gas law which describes how gases tend to expand when heated. It was first published by French natural philosopher Joseph Louis Gay-Lussac in 1802,[1] although he credits the discovery to unpublished work from the 1780s by Jacques Charles. The law was independently discovered by British natural philosopher John Dalton by 1801, although Dalton's description was less thorough than Gay-Lussac's. The basic principles had already been described a century earlier by Guillaume Amontons.

Whatever the priority of the discovery, Gay-Lussac was the first to demonstrate that the law applied generally to all gases, and also to the vapours of volatile liquids if the temperature was more than a few degrees above the boiling point. His statement of the law can be expressed mathematically as:

    V_{100} - V_0 = kV_0\,

where V100 is the volume occupied by a given sample of gas at 100 ºC; V0 is the volume occupied by the same sample of gas at 0 ºC; and k is a constant which is the same for all gases at constant pressure. Gay-Lussac's value for k was 1⁄2.6666, remarkably close to the present-day value of 1⁄2.7315.

A modern statement of Charles's law is:

    At constant pressure, the volume of a given mass of an ideal gas increases or decreases by the same factor as its temperature on the absolute temperature scale (i.e. the gas expands as the temperature increases).[2]

which can be written as:

    V \propto T\,

where V is the volume of the gas; and T is the absolute temperature. The law can also be usefully expressed as follows:

    \frac{V_1}{T_1} = \frac{V_2}{T_2} \qquad \mathrm{or} \qquad \frac {V_2}{V_1} = \frac{T_2}{T_1} \qquad \mathrm{or} \qquad V_1 T_2 = V_2 T_1.

The equation shows that, as absolute temperature increases, the volume of the gas also increases in proportion.




read the theory again, its not the same


--------------------

PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666
Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD
Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong
Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek
Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek
Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub
Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek
Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek

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