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Cheesekiller
Mad Scientist
Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 485
Loc: Central NY
Last seen: 3 months, 18 days
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More on late casing
#9995707 - 03/18/09 02:59 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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So I thought I would start a thread on my latest DT casing. I wouldn't but I am trying this late casing method discussed by Fahtster. Check out these pics just before the casing was added.
I'll update this next week.
-CK
-------------------- Bulk grower with "some" success. Cloning Machine Nice Lids A few pics of my DT setup
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Cheesekiller
Mad Scientist
Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 485
Loc: Central NY
Last seen: 3 months, 18 days
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More on late casing 4 days later [Re: Cheesekiller]
#10020801 - 03/22/09 04:11 PM (15 years, 29 days ago) |
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Here we go 4 days later. I think this late casing method is the shit.
-------------------- Bulk grower with "some" success. Cloning Machine Nice Lids A few pics of my DT setup
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archivist
5-HT
Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 1,010
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Re: More on late casing 4 days later [Re: Cheesekiller]
#10023071 - 03/22/09 09:50 PM (15 years, 29 days ago) |
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Interesting. I'm curious if you had a control set up using the same isolate and substrate? Without a direct comparison there are too many variables involved to really prove anything one way or another...
-------------------- Proud supporter of the canning jar industry.
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fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht
Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,379
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Sweet post, CK. by the looks of it, you're going to have a pretty sick flush.. I love seeing grows inspired by the methods I used (who wouldn't, right?).
Quote:
Without a direct comparison there are too many variables involved to really prove anything one way or another...
It's not really a matter of proving anything one way or the other, respectfully... I've long said that the method isn't/wasn't ever intended to be the be-all-way of doing casings. It's just another way to get the job done. It's been known for a fair amount of time now that cubes don't require a casing to get a great flush... I checked out your recent grow, very very nice btw , and by the looks of it you didn't use a casing.
But there will be people that swear by casings and those that swear by not using one... there will always be people that say "I don't use one anymore, but that's because I'm lazy, but I would still recommend you use one" etc., etc. The late casing simply brings those two sides of the argument together to get the best of both worlds. You get the advantage of the micro climate at the fruiting surface while the peace of mind knowing that your casing won't get overrun with myc since it's already in the pinning stage. One thing that this method does have over non cased substrates is that you are adding water to the top of your fruiting surface via the saturated casing material, from which the fruits can pull from directly as an added reservoir... it also helps soak up water that condenses on the surface of the sub. And if your fruits are going to get quite tall, as it looks like CK's are going to, aesthetically, the fruits are going to grow upwards due to the reflective surface of the sub being covered by casing. And being a hobby and all, aesthetics are sometimes important to the overall satisfaction with your grow.
Quote:
I'm curious if you had a control set up using the same isolate and substrate?
I kind of did a controlled setting using this method... it was just one round of three tubs so it's not the most thorough by any means, but it's slightly more on the experimental side of getting to the bottom of whether the method works as advertised. That thread is here: SA's on bulk heres just a quick run down... in this pic...
...the first bin was uncased, the second was late cased or cased at the sign of the first few pins, and the last bin was cased a couple days prior to pinning. They were all done with the same clone and the same amount of substrate prep, etc. Casing that last bin while the bin was still in colonizing mode slightly slowed the first flush... which really isn't that big of a deal. And the uncased tub did turn out really nice as well, but the one that I waited to case definitely did the best overall... but like I said, this is just one instance and there are a lot of variables even though I tried my best to eliminate as many as I could.
I think a lot has to do with the way the substrate is prepared and the texture of the fruiting surface and less having to do with the casing or lack thereof. This is the reason that I kind of entangled the late casing method with the way that I preped my bins... the layering helps A LOT with keeping the surface area nice and rhizomorphic which is great for pin formation. OZZ showed that here with his excellent uncased pin set. And that's just one example with the layering... there are plenty, yourself included, where mixing the spawn and substrate while leaving uncased produce excellent flushes... many variables like genetics play key roles, obviously. Peeps like Large_dose would probably not fare well with this method as he uses frosting layers where a lot of grain spawn is present... the early casing forces rhizos in that instance. Which brings me to the question: CK, what type of substrate prep did you use? Did you mix the spawn?
This method isn't that far off from methods like the case and place which Blood4blood uses, I believe.... really in the end, it all comes down to (which it always has for everything in this hobby) is what works best for you.. And it's always good to keep an open enough mind to try new things in order figure out what might work better. ya know?
Edited by fahtster (03/23/09 10:59 PM)
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Cheesekiller
Mad Scientist
Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 485
Loc: Central NY
Last seen: 3 months, 18 days
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Quote:
Interesting. I'm curious if you had a control set up using the same isolate and substrate? Without a direct comparison there are too many variables involved to really prove anything one way or another...
I have been using the same casing method for like 7 years so I think the other method has been tried. My other method was case it, and colonize the casing then let it rip. Worked ok, but after reading fahtsters late casing post I realized the casing was actually turning into part of the substrate. The best part of this method was the amount of large fruits. I have never had a first flush with so many large fruits. Usually the first flush is so jam packed with little ones that they can't even get big. I personally will always use this method from now on. Now I have always struggled with the best procedure for the second flush. I think I will search for some other answers for that, however I do not want to dunk the casing. I think I will add some more water, then patch and wait. Any and all thoughts are appreciated.
Thanks, -CK
-------------------- Bulk grower with "some" success. Cloning Machine Nice Lids A few pics of my DT setup
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fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht
Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,379
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Got any new pics of this tub coming along, CK?
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archivist
5-HT
Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 1,010
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Faht, your post was exactly what I was after. I hope I didn't sound like I was hating on your tek! It's good to see a comparison side by side of a couple of scenarios, and your explanation for why this would work makes perfect sense. I had read about your tek a little while ago but never decided to try it since I was getting pretty good results uncased.
I am definitely up for experimenting though, so I'm going to give this a shot one of these days. That last monotub I did I actually got pretty small fruits on my first flush (2nd flush is much better so far). Part of that might have been my substrate depth (usually 2.5-3") but I'm wondering if late casing could have helped here. It does make sense that it would provide extra water right at the point of growth.
Interesting thing about layering though. I had one monotub that I layered and one that I simply mixed. The layered one produced a much smaller pinset but much larger fruits. The mixed one produced a huge pinset but lots of small fruits. I can see what you mean by forcing the mycelium to go rhizo and provide a better fruiting base, but it did not pan out that way for me. The mixed spawn actually colonized much faster too (which may have been my fault for not layering well).
I'm curious whether late casing could be applied to pan cyans? Or will pans simply not pin without a casing layer?
Thanks for both your replies. Very helpful!
-------------------- Proud supporter of the canning jar industry.
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fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht
Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,379
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Quote:
I'm curious whether late casing could be applied to pan cyans? Or will pans simply not pin without a casing layer?
nah... I wouldn't try it with pans... strictly cubbies. I didn't think you were hating either..
I found that the layering worked much better when you put two quarts of spawn on the top most layer of grain. There were a lot of experiments that I wanted to try, but I retired before I got a chance to do any of them... One being to reduce the thickness of the substrate based on what Eatyualive and Large_dose use (a thinner substrate); maybe by one or two layers of bulk substrate and increase the top most layer of grain spawn to three quarts instead of two... that way trying to get all of the substrates' output in one flush (or at least worth the effort and space) and ditching it afterwards. The only thing that I could see being an issue would be the reduced water content in the sub due to the reduction of bulk substrate layers, but I think a prefirst flush dunk could take care of that or there might not even be an issue in the first place. Maybe some day I'll get back into it... doubtful though.
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fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht
Registered: 06/17/06
Posts: 9,379
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how'd this turn out, CK?
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Cheesekiller
Mad Scientist
Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 485
Loc: Central NY
Last seen: 3 months, 18 days
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Hey,
Sorry, Iv'e been enjoying the fruits for a while now. These things were Wicked strong and I got about 9oz from that one container. The one thing that I have found out this time was that when I slow dried the bastards, they were about 4x as potent. I can tell because I would give people 8ths and they had a good time on the real dry stuff, but when I give people 1god ,damn semi slow dry one they freak the F out. I have been using the same strain now since 2001. I print when they look good and then do another batch. I have to say they are MUCH more potent then they were back then. Guys.. experiment with drying techniques because just like weed, the better you dry the better the buzz.. Hope you all catch the vibe.
Later, -CK
-------------------- Bulk grower with "some" success. Cloning Machine Nice Lids A few pics of my DT setup
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