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Anonymous #1
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Legal advice needed
#10419253 - 05/29/09 11:48 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Okay, so here is the story:
I am spending the night in City A, and will be taking the greyhound back home to City B the next day.
I sleep at a church and when I walk around the corner to take a piss a voice says to me "You think I didnt know what you came back here to do?" and puts me in hand cuffs, though doesnt tell me Im under arrest or anything. I respond that I did not know it was illegal to urinate behind a building, and I really didnt. I get educated on the matter and told to sit on the pavement while another cop comes.
Cop A, who still hasnt read me my rights, etc, asks me if there is anything she should know about in my backpack and I tell her that there isnt, assuming that she cant search it without a warrant. I tell her she needs a warrant to search it, though she is already unzipping it with a pipe in her hand and she tells me that Im under arrest and she doesn't need a warrant.
Cop B pulls a sheet out of his car and Cop A(who was a bike cop) writes me a summons for possession of paraphernalia and urinating in public.
Now, marijuana in this city HAS been decriminalized (under an ounce) and I'm not sure about the status of pipes.
Afterwards I ask her if I have to stay in City A for the two weeks after the court date, since I dont live there, have responsibilities in city b, have nowhere to stay in city a, noway of making income in city a, etc. She says something that strikes me as odd..."Well...technically Im supposed to say yes, but if you find a ride back to City B we WONT follow you"
My questions: Is this a trap? Im back in City B now. Should i return to City A for the court date? If I got busted here for something silly would the warrant for the other state show up and would they ship me there to serve time?
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Stonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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"Should i return to City A for the court date?"
Yes, it sounds like just an ordinance violation or probation at the most. If you don't appear they will issue a warrant and it will be more serious. If you can't afford a lawyer then just show up and ask the prosecutor what he wants to do in exchange for a plea. If the cop had grounds to arrest you then he can search you. I can't tell from your post if he had grounds or not..
"If I got busted here for something silly would the warrant for the other state show up and would they ship me there to serve time? "
Most likely yes to both. Extradition for a misdemeanor is iffy but it would be hanging over your head forever.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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Adden

Registered: 06/04/03
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Re: Legal advice needed [Re: Stonehenge]
#10419700 - 05/29/09 01:05 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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It'll show up on a background check anyway, so just take care of that misdemeanor charge and stop pissing on the side of churches.
In my state, first offense for urinating in public is a misdemeanor, second offense is indecent exposure and you get the pleasure of being a registered sex offender for the rest of your life.
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Anonymous #1
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Re: Legal advice needed [Re: Adden]
#10419747 - 05/29/09 01:13 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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If it wasnt for the paraphernalia charge Id be able to send it in by mail.
I doubt they'll jail me but should I get a one way plane/bus ticket just in case?
I would drive but it is 2000 miles.
UPDATE: I just called and it SHOULD be payable by mail.
Im going to call again when they get the ticket and find out for sure.
Edited by Anonymous (05/29/09 01:18 PM)
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psychedelicSLUG
ovoideocystidiata protector



Registered: 11/20/08
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Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
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if you do the crime ya gotta do the time... sadly...
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Variety is the spice of life!
   
   
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Shadowfoxhound
Stranger
Registered: 05/21/09
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The grounds for the search sounds iffy to me. From what it sounds like, they didn't have enough to search ya but that's if what you say is all true. You didn't smoke it at all? If what you say is true, a lawyer could do wonders for your case. You can always get a free meeting with a lawyer to discuss if such a case is plausible.
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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They shouldn't have searched your backpack. Public urination is just a ticket, it's not an arrestable offense.
You could probably beat the MJ charge, but it's not worth it. It will cost you 10X more in time and money to beat it. However, if you filed a motion to suppress the evidence my bet is that they would just drop the MJ charge.
Stonehenge, as usual, is wrong about the warrant. If you just never show up they will issue a bench warrant. For this type of charge they won't even extradite you from the next county let alone from another state.
Basically you'd just be banned from that county forever unless you want to get picked up and have to bail out of jail.
I know quite a few people that have had a similar situation, actually with MUCH more serious charges. When they get ID'd the warrant usually comes up. Then they sit around about an hour until they figure out it's a non-extraditable warrant. Then they get turned loose.
Anytime you get stopped in another state they usually won't even bother taking you to jail because the first thing they try to figure out is if the warrant is extraditable. Most of the time it is not.
The reasons for this is that it doesn't make sense to pay big bucks to import criminals into your state, then pay to jail them cause they can't pay their fines, then have to release a homeless, jobless criminal who has no way to get home back onto their streets. And it does cost a ton of money to transport incarcerated people just to then pay to jail them.
Instead they look at it as banishing someone. Problem solved.
-FF
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Stonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Legal advice needed [Re: fastfred]
#10434941 - 06/01/09 11:50 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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I already said they would issue a warrant if he didn't show up. Saying they never extradite on a minor charge is not true. It is up to the state which issued the warrant to decide if they want to extradite or not. Some will, many will not but it's not a sure thing. The warrant will show up in the NCIC national warrant system and if the person is stopped for traffic or something they will be arrested when the warrant is discovered. They will normally be arrested, booked and either have to post bond or remain in custody until the state which issued the warrant decides if they want extradition or not. Even if the decision is to not extradite it is a huge hassle for the person arrested.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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fastfred
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Registered: 05/17/04
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Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Legal advice needed [Re: Stonehenge]
#10438886 - 06/01/09 11:52 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
They will normally be arrested, booked and either have to post bond or remain in custody until the state which issued the warrant decides if they want extradition or not.
No, they do not usually get arrested. If it's not a felony it's extremely rare for a state to extradite.
And I guarantee they will not extradite for a couple hundred dollar fine like the OP was asking about. No state in the union would do that.
-FF
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Stonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
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Re: Legal advice needed [Re: fastfred]
#10441326 - 06/02/09 01:23 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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FF, you need to look up the difference between arrest and extradite. They are two completely different things.
"No, they do not usually get arrested. If it's not a felony it's extremely rare for a state to extradite."
When a cop sees a warrant come up on the ncic search, his job is to arrest the suspect and take him in. Then later on, a judge will decide if he gets extradited or not. That is not the cops job, his job is to execute the warrant. It's possible that in some places they have blanket policies that the cop has to call in and get a supervisor or someone higher up to approve arrests on misdemeanor warrants from out of state. I haven't heard of that offhand but it could be in some places.
Just figure that if there is a warrant out for you and you get checked out by a cop, you are going down to the station. Telling people it does not happen is bad advice. It happens a lot
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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fastfred
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Registered: 05/17/04
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Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Legal advice needed [Re: Stonehenge]
#10446722 - 06/03/09 10:22 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
FF, you need to look up the difference between arrest and extradite. They are two completely different things.
Really?
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When a cop sees a warrant come up on the ncic search, his job is to arrest the suspect and take him in. Then later on, a judge will decide if he gets extradited or not.
IME they are either already marked in the computer or they call and find out if the issuing county is willing to pay several thousand dollars to get you booked, housed, and transported out of their county. Then they still have to pay for further transport to the other counties.
I had a friend with a felony FTA. He was not extraditable from the sate we lived in, but he worked in the state with the warrant. That warrant was from the far side of the state. He got picked up in that state for some traffic violation and they hauled him in. He spent the first night or two in the local jail until his transport was paid. Then he went to the next counties jail and stayed a day or two until they AGAIN paid to transport him to the next county. It took him about a week to get across the state this way. At each stop he had to wait for payment or arrangements and for the next transport.
He had contact with the law in our state so I KNOW that even for a (minor) felony FTA they were not willing to extradite him from another state. He was also never arrested in our state on the warrant. The cop that picked him up said that if he were just 8 miles away in his home state they would not be able to get him on that warrant.
The thing is that in state it's more of a transport issue. It's a lot more procedure to get someone from out of state. They have to pay a lot more and the defendant can delay extradition for quite some time in most cases.
I myself had one warrant they wouldn't pick me up for in the next county, and I had one warrant (fines) that they weren't willing to transport me 2-3 counties. (I had another fine in the current county which is what they picked me up for, then they make me pay the whole amount from both counties to get out.)
I also had another friend that got busted growing a few plants. He fled to Vegas and got checked by the law at some point. Apparently what happened is that they dropped the charges to a misdemeanor warrant and marked it as non-extraditable. After about an hour or two with the cop (on scene) they turned him loose. They told him his home state didn't want to extradite him, but that if they picked him up there they would probably file felony charges.
So in that case not only did they not want him back they also threatened bigger charges if he did come back.
Quote:
Then later on, a judge will decide if he gets extradited or not. That is not the cops job, his job is to execute the warrant.
I'm sure that may be the case in some places or with some situations. Generally cops know which warrants are extraditable, apparently by different means. Sometimes it's marked, sometimes they just know they're not going to spend $2,000 on a $100 fine, or sometimes they call in and check.
They know there's no point in picking people up for non-extraditable warrants. And if it's non-extraditable then it isn't their job to pick them up in the first place.
It's just common sense that the law doesn't go around picking up people for minor charges on non-extraditable warrants. Most places have a system to know this. In others maybe you'll get hauled in for a few hours or overnight. However, once you've been hauled in or questioned on the street I know for a fact that they tag that warrant with "non-extraditable" to avoid picking you up constantly. And I know most places won't even haul you in in the first place.
Stonehenge you watch too many TV crime shows. They aren't real and are no basis for giving advice in the real world. I know you like those plots where some killer is picked up for some traffic violation in Seattle because he had unpaid fines in Florida and then they sweat the truth out of him, but real life just doesn't happen that way.
-FF
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Stonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Legal advice needed [Re: fastfred]
#10446782 - 06/03/09 10:42 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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If a warrant is listed in the ncic it means it's extraditable. They do not list warrants that are marked non extraditable because it would be pointless. That's why I mentioned the ncic. With an in state only warrant it will be subject to local policies so what you say is very possible.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Legal advice needed [Re: Stonehenge]
#10447165 - 06/03/09 12:09 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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They can and often do get even minor warrants for other states when they run your name.
Seems like sometimes they do and sometimes they don't get certain info in certain locations. When they run my name in my old home state all sorts of bullshit comes up... arrests for stuff I was never actually charged with, speeding tickets that were never issued (cause they didn't catch me), eluding an officer (twice), suspicious person report, etc..
All kinds of stuff comes up when I'm in that state. Most of it I never had any actual contact with the law. The only thing I can think of is that there was this nice curvy route through a state park where they don't usually try to catch up to you they just wait at the far end of the road. But I had a little secret shortcut and lost cops many times on the road and never came out the other end.
-FF
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supra
computerEnthusiast
Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 6,446
Loc: TEXAS
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Re: Legal advice needed [Re: fastfred]
#10448870 - 06/03/09 05:05 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said:
Quote:
They will normally be arrested, booked and either have to post bond or remain in custody until the state which issued the warrant decides if they want extradition or not.
No, they do not usually get arrested. If it's not a felony it's extremely rare for a state to extradite.
And I guarantee they will not extradite for a couple hundred dollar fine like the OP was asking about. No state in the union would do that.
-FF
I've had a warrant for not paying a ticket, and been pulled over in the same county and it even came up. All the cop did was tell me to get a new registration sticker since the one i had was peeling off (had my windshield busted out, was a good reason to have it that way), and to go take care of that ticket.
Don't know if it really means shit since its only one experience, but the cop chose not to take me to jail or arrest me or anything for having a warrant for my arrest...did nothing more than tell me to take care of it. Personally, i would hope that cops have more to do with their time then fuss over spending all this time and money on some dude that took a piss outside.
peace
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Stonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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Re: Legal advice needed [Re: supra]
#10453317 - 06/04/09 11:55 AM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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When people say "cops can't do such and so" we mean they can't do it legally. I've heard plenty of stories like that. I heard one about a guy who got stopped by a cop, the cop told him to hand over the pot, the guy did and the cop told him to "get out of here" and let him go. The cop was committing a felony by letting him go. The cop could have lost his job and gone to jail for that.
Never count on a cop giving you a break.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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supra
computerEnthusiast
Registered: 10/26/03
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Loc: TEXAS
Last seen: 13 years, 30 days
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Re: Legal advice needed [Re: Stonehenge]
#10455558 - 06/04/09 05:56 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said: When people say "cops can't do such and so" we mean they can't do it legally. I've heard plenty of stories like that. I heard one about a guy who got stopped by a cop, the cop told him to hand over the pot, the guy did and the cop told him to "get out of here" and let him go. The cop was committing a felony by letting him go. The cop could have lost his job and gone to jail for that.
Never count on a cop giving you a break.
I don't count on it...however, did have a cop also let me go for smoking one time, guess the cops wehre i used to live were just much more laid back. Or maybe they let me go on the pot thing because i was young. I was even smoking and driving.
I had just bought a doobie off my buddy at McDonalds where i worked through highschool, 16 at this time, and fired it up on the drive home. It was about 11 at night, and nobody was really out, as this is not a party town at all. I get on one of the main streets through, and am cruising 55 in a 45, as people drive that fast all day long down it and its not a problem, but since there was no other traffic, the cop decided to pull me over. So i throw whats left of the roach into the ashtray and put it out, roll down my windows, and cruise until he turns on his siren, acting like i can't see him (of course i can, its dark and lights are all over the place). So he comes up to the window, and the second he leans over, he sits back up and says, 'what is that I smell', so i respond with the classic 'what are you talking about'. cop says, don't play stupid, I know i smell marijuana, so where is it, if you dont' give it i'm searching you anyways'. So i open the ashtray pulling out the mostly smoked joint, maybe 1/3 of it is left. He smells it, then looks at me and says, 'is this all? you don't have a bag or something on you do you?' I say, 'no, i dont' have a bag officer, i just got this off of somebody, its all that i have'. He throws it over his shoulder, then says, 'You need to lay off the dope son, slow down and get home', and let me go, that was it.
I lucked the fuck out that time, too bad my dumbass didn't learn and i did end up getting into some trouble a year later.
peace
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


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Re: Legal advice needed [Re: Stonehenge]
#10459835 - 06/05/09 01:04 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
The cop was committing a felony by letting him go. The cop could have lost his job and gone to jail for that.
Around here the police are allowed to use their discretion if it is a misdemeanor, they are only required to arrest you if it is a felony.
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Legal advice needed [Re: supra]
#10459888 - 06/05/09 01:17 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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yeah, besides, I fail to see how the cop was commiting a felony in any case.
Even if a law exists that the cop was supposed to arrest that guy, is stonehenge saying the penalty is a felony criminal offense? I doubt it.
That touches on a common point of confusion that stonehenge mentions:
Quote:
Stonehenge said: When people say "cops can't do such and so" we mean they can't do it legally.
This isn't relevant to most people in this forum. Whether a cop is breaking the law doesn't matter in most cases for the accused.
Often people will say "they can't do that" or "they're violating hte law!" and protest in this forum, but so what? From the perspective of the defendant it doesn't matter. Most laws restraining police conduct have no relevance to the accused. People seem to think that a cop violating the law means something to the defendant, neccesarily, but it isn't the case. Just cuz a law is violated doesn't mean jack- you need a provision in the law that gives some penalty to the state or some benifit to the accused, and they almost never do.
I think the misconception arises from the use of "illegal search and seizure" by the courts and people not understanding what that means. Just cuz something was done illegally doesn't mean you walk or the evidence is excluded. For that you have to appeal to a specific provision of law that gives that result. At best, most of these issues coudl be addressed by the prosecutor, but that doesn't mean you'll be free, it means maybe, if hell freezes over, the cop will be prosecuted.
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Anonymous #1
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Re: Legal advice needed [Re: johnm214]
#10459987 - 06/05/09 01:37 PM (14 years, 11 months ago) |
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Update: I can pay the $140 by mail and never have to set foot in that city again.
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Stonehenge
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
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It was a felony amount.
Anon, good for you.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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