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JoeSmoe
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Registered: 05/12/09
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Can you use a Walmart bought Air Purifier - in place of a Laminar Flow Hood?
#10415444 - 05/28/09 07:28 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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1. Alright... Since having a source of "clean air" is essential to mycology... I was wondering if it would be possible to replace a LAMINAR FLOW HOOD... over a... store bought Allergen HEPA air purifier?
2. Also... I was thinking of attaching this plastic Martha Stewart bag(?) (was going to use it for a "glove-box") to the clean air vent from the air purifier. I wanted to create a "space" that had a consistant source of clean air... I believe... in theory that this would be the ideal enviroment to inoculate. Since it kinda works like an isolated Laminar Flow... ah... box? LOL
I was thinking that it would be a good idea. Any Advice guys/ladies?
Joe SMOE~~~
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Doc_T
Random Dude




Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 42,395
Loc: Colorado
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Re: Can you use a Walmart bought Air Purifier - in place of a Laminar Flow Hood? [Re: JoeSmoe]
#10415484 - 05/28/09 07:32 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Did you save the receipt?
-------------------- You make it all possible. Doesn't it feel good?
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Jean-Luc Picard
I only wish i was this good!



Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,695
Loc: New Mexico, USA
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Re: Can you use a Walmart bought Air Purifier - in place of a Laminar Flow Hood? [Re: Doc_T]
#10416128 - 05/28/09 08:57 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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the problem with that is you probly wont end up with laminar flow...or air moving in a straight line...you will probly end up with turbulent flow with lots of swirls and crazy stuff that does not provide a "tunnel" of sterile air, and can sweep in contaminants from the outer edges of the flow and due to these extremely unpredictable currents of air...can actually work their way back into your work area...most of the time flow hoods have properly sized blowers to fit the particular opening size and filter type...in order to create this laminar flow...but filtered air is always better than non filtered air...so while you may not have a laminar flow hood...you may be able to create a much cleaner, and if properly sealed, positively pressurized environment...that once sterilized with the proper chemicals...will be sealed except for small openings that would only allow air to flow out when positively pressurized...thus making a much cleaner environment.
Sorry about my crazy sentence structure...hope this helps   agmotes165
-------------------- The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you - NDT
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Epilson Lyrae
Armed with hammers



Registered: 04/07/09
Posts: 5,561
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Re: Can you use a Walmart bought Air Purifier - in place of a Laminar Flow Hood? [Re: Jean-Luc Picard]
#10416208 - 05/28/09 09:09 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Why is it so hard to find answers that adress the questions of what exactly is a laminar flow hood? You can 'search' laminar flow hoods and it's a goddamn rabbit hole. it takes hours and days of searching to find simple answers. Maybe I don't query the right boolean phrases but it can be quite daunting. I'm sorry if this sounds mean or rude but shit! Is there a shortcut to concise answers?
-------------------- "Freedom is something that dies unless it's used." H.T.
I've come to believe that the heart is the filter of the enlightened mind. Epilson Lyrae
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Jean-Luc Picard
I only wish i was this good!



Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 4,695
Loc: New Mexico, USA
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Re: Can you use a Walmart bought Air Purifier - in place of a Laminar Flow Hood? [Re: Epilson Lyrae]
#10416222 - 05/28/09 09:12 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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what would you like to know?
-------------------- The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you - NDT
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: Can you use a Walmart bought Air Purifier - in place of a Laminar Flow Hood? [Re: Epilson Lyrae]
#10416295 - 05/28/09 09:25 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Laminar flow is evenly flowing air out of all points of the filter. That's why the blower never points directly at the filter on a flow hood. The air is blown into a plenum, pressure builds and the air is forced evenly out of the filter. The small holmes brand type of HEPA filters have much more turbulent air flow.
To answer your question, yes you can use one of those kinds of filters for sterile work. It is NOT laminar flow, but it will work.
Here is a thread where fastfred shows an example of one setup using that type of filter and Workman backs up the claim: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5748758#5748758
Eatyualive uses one of those filters to this day by taping a garbage bag to the filter and working inside the bag. He calls it the "shmuvbox" and he actually got rid of his flow hood because he liked the shmuvbox better.
--------------------
Quick WBS Prep
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: Can you use a Walmart bought Air Purifier - in place of a Laminar Flow Hood? [Re: Epilson Lyrae]
#10416361 - 05/28/09 09:35 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
gngsteroflove said: Why is it so hard to find answers that adress the questions of what exactly is a laminar flow hood? You can 'search' laminar flow hoods and it's a goddamn rabbit hole. it takes hours and days of searching to find simple answers. Maybe I don't query the right boolean phrases but it can be quite daunting. I'm sorry if this sounds mean or rude but shit! Is there a shortcut to concise answers?
Shortcut
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Quick WBS Prep
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Alabama Slim
Chinese river witch

Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 7,439
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Re: Can you use a Walmart bought Air Purifier - in place of a Laminar Flow Hood? *DELETED* [Re: JoeSmoe]
#10416396 - 05/28/09 09:41 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Post deleted by Alabama SlimReason for deletion: .
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



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Re: Can you use a Walmart bought Air Purifier - in place of a Laminar Flow Hood? [Re: JoeSmoe]
#10416433 - 05/28/09 09:46 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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I tried those exact setups and experienced contamination every single time. If you live in an area with a high trichoderma spore load, there's no way a 2" thick paper filter is going to perform as well as an 11" thick ceramic filter costing ten times as much.
If you live in a low trich spore load area, you might get away with it, but buy from anywhere but shitmart. I run two of those in the winter when our wood stove is running, and it cuts down perhaps 30% on the amount of ash dust on our furniture, but certainly doesn't eliminate it, and that's large particles of wood ash that get right through the 'hepa', not the much smaller microscopic ones that contaminate your projects. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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Spongiform
Some Cow


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Re: Can you use a Walmart bought Air Purifier - in place of a Laminar Flow Hood? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#10416467 - 05/28/09 09:51 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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-------------------- Spongiform's Plastic Tek - An Alternative to Glass
Spongi's PF Block Tek & Automated Shotgun Project.
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Epilson Lyrae
Armed with hammers



Registered: 04/07/09
Posts: 5,561
Loc: Woody Creek
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Re: Can you use a Walmart bought Air Purifier - in place of a Laminar Flow Hood? [Re: Spongiform]
#10416568 - 05/28/09 10:07 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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At last. some good links. somethings to learn. Thank you Tc's.
-------------------- "Freedom is something that dies unless it's used." H.T.
I've come to believe that the heart is the filter of the enlightened mind. Epilson Lyrae
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Awestruck
Nerding out



Registered: 05/04/09
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Re: Can you use a Walmart bought Air Purifier - in place of a Laminar Flow Hood? [Re: Epilson Lyrae]
#10416641 - 05/28/09 10:19 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think that the idea has been mulled around for sometime under the name shmuv box. Maybe you could check them out.
-------------------- Repaying my karmic debt to the Shroomery.
Looking for a Pan cambo print.
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OogieBoogie
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Re: Can you use a Walmart bought Air Purifier - in place of a Laminar Flow Hood? [Re: Alabama Slim]
#10416812 - 05/28/09 10:50 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alabama Slim said: RR will fuck you up for talking that walmart shit.
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JoeSmoe
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Registered: 05/12/09
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Re: Can you use a Walmart bought Air Purifier - in place of a Laminar Flow Hood? [Re: OogieBoogie]
#10418406 - 05/29/09 08:45 AM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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So here's what I got to work with:

I'm planning on taping the gloves, some how, to the plastic bag(?) so that I can work inside of the bag. Probably wrap the gloves around some 4" PVC or something. Or cut a hole and tape it to the outside.

This is where the gloves with be used. They are fairly bigger than my hand, so there will be no struggle putting on the gloves.
The Walmart HEPA will be attached to the back. While the four holes on the sides(where the carrying rope is; that will be removed), will be the place where air can get out off. Leaving only a clean sterile enviroment.
In theory, it should inflate like a ballon from the pressure. I'll work inside while the "BOX" is in this state.
I'll post some more pics when it's built. I guess I'll keep you guys updated. All feedback is welcomed.
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: Can you use a Walmart bought Air Purifier - in place of a Laminar Flow Hood? [Re: JoeSmoe]
#10418436 - 05/29/09 08:51 AM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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It would probably be a lot easier and more effective to leave that as a still air box and not even add the HEPA. I use a glovebox just as much as my flow hood when I'm doing quick jobs.
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Quick WBS Prep
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rizingfire
Mycoticus psychoticus




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Re: Can you use a Walmart bought Air Purifier - in place of a Laminar Flow Hood? [Re: FooMan]
#10418454 - 05/29/09 08:55 AM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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I agree with Foo man, just use it as a glovebox and you will be fine. There is no need to use some piece of shit HEPA garbage. As an IAQ specialist I can tell ya that most HEPA's are garbage. Like RR said a HEPA on a flowhood is like that of an air scrubber and is a foot thick roughly and the air flow is even, it has to sheet accross the surface to prevent contamns from landing.
-------------------- aka NHMI
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RoosterCogburn
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Re: Can you use a Walmart bought Air Purifier - in place of a Laminar Flow Hood? [Re: rizingfire]
#10418478 - 05/29/09 09:02 AM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think the whole HEPA thing is confusing. I had a "HEPA" filter and it worked like shit. It was around $60 or something... it sucked.
I then got a $170 360 degree (circular) TRUE HEPA air filter, and it is AWESOME.
Not for mycology mind you, but I smoke quite a bit ( ) in my gameroom and I like to filter the air so my electronics don't get all chunked up and it won't smell.
The TRUE HEPA works like a charm at getting smoke, dust, etc.
Is there some marketing shit going on between HEPA and TRUE HEPA?
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
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Re: Can you use a Walmart bought Air Purifier - in place of a Laminar Flow Hood? [Re: RoosterCogburn] 1
#10419169 - 05/29/09 11:33 AM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Is there some marketing shit going on between HEPA and TRUE HEPA?
No. Mostly it's just that anything purchased from walmart is made in china worthless crap, and sold for no other reason than to fuck you out of your money and people in the civilized world out of their jobs. Those Arkansas hillbillies want nothing more than to reduce the standard of living in the US and Canada to that of third world banana republics in order to enrich themselves. Boycott walmart and buy quality products from a legitimate supplier before there is no other place to shop still in business. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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brainsOplenty
myconut



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Re: Can you use a Walmart bought Air Purifier - in place of a Laminar Flow Hood? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#10419174 - 05/29/09 11:34 AM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said:
Quote:
Is there some marketing shit going on between HEPA and TRUE HEPA?
No. Mostly it's just that anything purchased from walmart is made in china worthless crap, and sold for no other reason than to fuck you out of your money and people in the civilized world out of their jobs. Those Arkansas hillbillies want nothing more than to reduce the standard of living in the US and Canada to that of third world banana republics in order to enrich themselves. Boycott walmart and buy quality products from a legitimate supplier before there is no other place to shop still in business. RR
AMEN!
-------------------- FOR GOD'S SAKE MAN! TELL ME ABOUT THE FUCKING GOLF SHOES!!!
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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Re: Can you use a Walmart bought Air Purifier - in place of a Laminar Flow Hood? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#10421398 - 05/29/09 06:25 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: No. Mostly it's just that anything purchased from walmart is made in china worthless crap, and sold for no other reason than to fuck you out of your money and people in the civilized world out of their jobs. Those Arkansas hillbillies want nothing more than to reduce the standard of living in the US and Canada to that of third world banana republics in order to enrich themselves. Boycott walmart and buy quality products from a legitimate supplier before there is no other place to shop still in business. RR
I agree, but it isn't just walmart. Just about everything sold in the U.S. these days is imported and it's because of all of the government regulation of U.S. businesses. Consumers want cheap prices so industries have to go where they aren't held back by labor unions, minimum wages, environmental regulations, etc to provide those prices. American auto makers are the last big U.S. industry left and they're going down the tubes too. Our government is the biggest enemy of a free market. The problems are only getting worse with the new regime in place.
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eatyualive
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Re: Can you use a Walmart bought Air Purifier - in place of a Laminar Flow Hood? [Re: FooMan]
#10421485 - 05/29/09 06:49 PM (15 years, 7 months ago) |
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i use a shmuvbox. which is basically a hepa with ionizer in it. with a plastic bag attached to it. ive poured plates, done clones, grain to grain transfers, prints all fine. even made syringes with no problems.
although nothing ghetto is ever going to out do a flowhood. but its a cheap start. it works so good and takes up so little of space. and it has a large work area if you use those big plastic yard bags that ive never turned back.
i keep one hepa unit and i only use it for sterile work. so the filter is only being used maybe once or twice a week. so it can last up to 2 years if not 3. this filter usually lasts about 2 years unless i get a big bust of trich in it. ive had 3 filter cartridges since i bought this thing about 5 years ago for 30 bucks at walmart. and my contam ratio is very little. out of the last year of jars ive only had two batches go bad. one was due to needing to change the filter in the hepa unit for the first time in 2 years. the other was bc the master jar i had, had some trich hiding in it. didn't see it until i forked it from a pf jar to g2g and then the green went everywhere.
so it works well.
and this is the cheapest one at walmart.

damn i was trying to upload more pictures to show you some inside shots and how to set it up. but my picture limit is maxed out. so im going to link you to this thread that explains it a bit more.
http://forums.mycotopia.net/holding-tank/41580-peek-into-shmuvbox.html
here is the text off of what i have posted.
behold the shmuvbox. best invention of the century! credit to molester. its very portable and you can get a larger liner that will allow more work space. right now you can see 20 quart jars WBS and two BRF jars in this pic. if you zoom in you can see the two hand holes and the eye hole. the more transparent the bag the better. you won't need the eye hole if the bag is transparent.
this is such a great invention. i sold my flowhood . i have poured plates, taken clones, made spore syringes, g2g transfers, you name it, it has been done in this thing. portable, effective, cheap! can't go wrong!
i use a shmuvbox. it is a HEPA with a big clear trash bag over it, you place all your clean tools, fruits for cloning , and benzo torch to sterilize your blades in this bag.
usually i will wipe down every single part of this HEPA with 70-90% rubbing alc. be anal, spray it with disinfectant spray. this thing will pour plates and take clones easily. holmes brand HEPA filters with a small Ionizer built in are a great size. you only need a small room size filter. and it should be around 30$ at walmart.
once you put the bag around the filter, tape it down to the table your working on. this will in turn, allow the bag to stay put.
now blow your bag up that has all your cooled utensils and sterile equipment in it.
turn on the HEPA and when it blows up, cut two holes in it for your hands. one for each. and if you can't find 100% clear lawn bags for the bag, you can cut eye holes as well. this produces positive air pressure and forces out the bad stuff. its real simple, clones can be taken and it stores nicely. its efficient and takes up little space, and hides easily.
http://forums.mycotopia.net/cloning/36463-9er-tek-details-collection-additions.html#post572051
anyway, im one ghetto mofo. so i use cheap and easy and stealthy. works wonders for me.
add the cheap 4 to 6 foot table from office depot and you have a nice work area that folds up and is not visible to anyone. the hepa takes up about a 1'cubed area. 1x1x1.
the folding table. folds and sits behind a couch or piece of furniture easily. talk about portability and ease for someone going to go on a hunting foray and then trying to take a clean print in the hotel.
id pick the fruit and put it in a gallon ziplock bag. then go back to the hotel room. set this up on the hotel table and print my wild specimen right in there. or clone what have you...most of the utensils you use for sterile work will pack up real easy. i can get away with a scalpal, a bernzomatic torch, some rubbing alc, disinfectant spray and thats all you need. if you really want a fast clone. you can setup some 9er tek jars and bring your blender with you. it should all fit in a decent size box. excellent. now for flying. may not work with the scalpals. but its perfect for driving to a local or unlocal field a few hundred miles away.
hell now adays exacto knives are cheap. you can just buy one of those crappy cheap ones at the local dollar store. and toss it when your done....even most small towns have dollar stores. not all but many do.
here are some pictures of a setup for clone via 9er tek. should be in the archives here on how to do 9er tek cloning method.
http://forums.mycotopia.net/holding-tank/42809-taking-9er-tek-clone-shmuvbox.html
sorry for offsite links. i would upload the pics and illustrate it here. but im at full capacity on pics.
also just to clarify that i mean what i say. ive been using this method for about 5 years now. with less than 3% contam ratio.
at about 2 batches of 10 jars each a week. on a weekly basis for one year equates to 1040 jars a year given a 52 week year.
20 jars a week times 52 weeks = 1040 jars a year.
out of those 1040 jars. 20 contaminated. and that was a dirty filter.
20contam jars/1040 jars a year =.019. or 1.9%
thats a great contam ratio. just about 2 percent.
Edited by eatyualive (05/29/09 07:47 PM)
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Cordyceps


Registered: 09/15/09
Posts: 337
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Re: Can you use a Walmart bought Air Purifier - in place of a Laminar Flow Hood? [Re: eatyualive]
#11742174 - 12/30/09 11:50 AM (15 years, 21 days ago) |
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interesting post
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