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OfflineJuicyColor
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Good Grow, Bad High
    #10412511 - 05/28/09 09:02 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Hey guys, First time post. Ive been surfing around this site for a while now and i have a scenario here that i cant figure out.  I purchased a couple of Hawaiian Syringes from Spores101. I let them colonize in my PF Tek Cakes at the proper heat, and i set up a shotgun FC. The cakes were dunked and rolled. The cakes fruited fast and had a great first flush, i think where i went wrong is how i dried them, i used the good old' Ronco Electric food dehydrator. It gets well above 120F which ive heard that above 105F can kill the active ingredients. I took 3 grams the first time and felt the "onset" of a mushroom trip but it quickly faded.

My questions are:
Anyone ever have problems with spores101...
Is the Hawaiian Strain not a very potent strain? (they disclose show potency on spores101)
Or could it be because my dumb ass dried them wrong? (Now im using a fan...)

Thanks for you input!

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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: JuicyColor]
    #10412519 - 05/28/09 09:04 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

More likely the genetics of your particular spores.
Many of us use dehydrators.


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OfflineHarlz
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: JuicyColor]
    #10412522 - 05/28/09 09:05 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

you killed all or most of the psilocybin and psilocin in your mushrooms, you now have dud shrooms from the food dehydrator, NO TEMPS OVER 100/40 degrees Fahrenheit/celcius

sorry dude, fan dry em next time


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: Harlz]
    #10412536 - 05/28/09 09:10 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Harlz said:
you killed all or most of the psilocybin and psilocin in your mushrooms, you now have dud shrooms from the food dehydrator, NO TEMPS OVER 100/40 degrees Fahrenheit/celcius

sorry dude, fan dry em next time




Nonsense.  I've cooked them on the BBQ grill at 1200F and had great results.  Tastes good too. :laugh:  Lots of people boil them into tea as well.  There's no more than a ten percent reduction in actives, and it's worth that much sacrifice to avoid nausea and bad taste.

Multispore inoculation is a luck of the draw thing.  You could probably use that same syringe again and get a stellar result.
RR


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Invisibleprismism
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: JuicyColor]
    #10412537 - 05/28/09 09:11 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

dont use heat when drying. im not even postive that heat actually subtracts from potency but i dont know why anyone would even risk it when it is just as easy to dry them in a cool dark place in front of a fan.

and if you didnt get a solid trip. then next time eat 5 grams. but keep in mind that mushrooms are not like lsd..their effects are way different. IMO
-prismism


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OfflineDWreck
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: Harlz]
    #10412541 - 05/28/09 09:12 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Why don't you try to fan dry your next flush and let us know if it was bad genetics or the dehydrator.

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Offlineistandalone
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: JuicyColor]
    #10412551 - 05/28/09 09:17 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

likely because of the heat they endured during drying. if your going to use a food dehydrator, you need to eithyer turn off the heat or disable the heating element.
i too have the ronco dehydrator, and i have to clip the wire going to the heating element before i use it.


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Invisibleprismism
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: JuicyColor]
    #10412558 - 05/28/09 09:20 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

in my opinion there is a difference between heating the mushrooms to dry them and heating the mushrooms when they are in a soup or tea mix or chocolate. because when doing the latter you are releasing the active chemicals of the mushroom into the tea/soup whatever..so you are still getting all the potency..
:2cents:
-prismism


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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: prismism]
    #10412675 - 05/28/09 09:58 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I dehydrate mine at 125-135f till cracker dry with no noticeable potency issues.

The main thing that determines potency is genetics.  When you're doing a multispore grow, it's like rolling the dice with genetics.


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OfflineJuicyColor
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: prismism]
    #10412676 - 05/28/09 09:58 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Right on, i should have a few more flushes coming up in a couple of days, and i switched my drying method. I am using the trays/lid to the dehydrator with a fan underneath them. I have about 5 grams dried now. Im going to harvest my next flush and dry it, ill let you all know if its dud spores or not..
Anyone have any qualms with spores101?

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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: JuicyColor]
    #10412678 - 05/28/09 09:59 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

The last syringe I ordered from 101 didnt even have spores in it.  So Yeah I have a qualm with them.  I only order from sporeworks now.


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Offlinechronosync
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: Spongiform]
    #10412839 - 05/28/09 10:52 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

i think its a myth that a syringe needs to be dark. when i got my first one i was so excited and then flipped because it looked completely clear. i looked closer and saw tiny miniscule traces of particles. i used it and it worked casebook perfect. the other one that came w/ it was also totally clear except there were a few black clumps floating around (im gonna have to shake the crap out of that one.) i think you need a microscope to really be able to tell how many spores, ppm?, there are in solution. ive also heard that too dark of a syringe is also bad. dont know the reason for this.

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OfflineAlienTechKilla
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #10412844 - 05/28/09 10:53 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Quote:

Harlz said:
you killed all or most of the psilocybin and psilocin in your mushrooms, you now have dud shrooms from the food dehydrator, NO TEMPS OVER 100/40 degrees Fahrenheit/celcius

sorry dude, fan dry em next time




Nonsense.  I've cooked them on the BBQ grill at 1200F and had great results.  Tastes good too. :laugh:  Lots of people boil them into tea as well.  There's no more than a ten percent reduction in actives, and it's worth that much sacrifice to avoid nausea and bad taste.

Multispore inoculation is a luck of the draw thing.  You could probably use that same syringe again and get a stellar result.
RR



^^^Agreed. My dehydrator is always set to 145 degrees to get them done within 24hrs. Never noticed any issues ever.

Spores101 sucks. No doubt about it. Ralphster or Sporeworks only for me and mine.

ATK

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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: chronosync]
    #10412874 - 05/28/09 11:01 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

chronosync said:
i think its a myth that a syringe needs to be dark. when i got my first one i was so excited and then flipped because it looked completely clear. i looked closer and saw tiny miniscule traces of particles. i used it and it worked casebook perfect. the other one that came w/ it was also totally clear except there were a few black clumps floating around (im gonna have to shake the crap out of that one.) i think you need a microscope to really be able to tell how many spores, ppm?, there are in solution. ive also heard that too dark of a syringe is also bad. dont know the reason for this.





I inoculated like 10 different things (brf cakes, rye, wbs and several lc's) and none of them ever had any myc growth in them.  I was quite dissapointed.


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Offlinehemppy
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: Spongiform]
    #10412979 - 05/28/09 11:29 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Definitely not a heat issue. I dry mine in a nesco dehydrator and it uses heat. Never had a problem with potency with any coming off the dehydrator. Let me ask you this. How many mushrooms did you eat to make up the 3 grams? If you ate 1 large shroom that made up 2 of those grams it could make a difference. Since you used multi spore its most likely genetics.

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Offlinechronosync
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: Spongiform]
    #10413009 - 05/28/09 11:37 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

@ spongiform

well fuck that. that blows. i would be so pissed. sorry. the above mentioned were from ralph. my point is that although they diddnt look heavy in spores and not very impressing looking, they still seem to be very active.

about the OP's question. noone seems to know why they diddnt kick his ass like they should. i guess there are too many variables to really figure out why. plus so many conflicting opinions!

genetics: multispore works fine just not ideal, or its a total crapshoot, you never know what youre going to get.

does heat affect potency: yeah, a little but who cares? or HEAT WILL KILL ALL ACTIVES!

i get so confused sometimes. i take every opinion with a grain of salt and the MOD's and TC's with alot less. sometimes none....

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Invisiblenovicemycology
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: chronosync]
    #10413060 - 05/28/09 11:50 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Third post by RR.  Apparently people dont read.
Quote:

Nonsense.  I've cooked them on the BBQ grill at 1200F and had great results.  Tastes good too.  Lots of people boil them into tea as well.  There's no more than a ten percent reduction in actives, and it's worth that much sacrifice to avoid nausea and bad taste.

Multispore inoculation is a luck of the draw thing.  You could probably use that same syringe again and get a stellar result.
RR




8th Post seconding the fact that that heat doesn't kill off your actives enough to worry.  I also use a nesco for 24 hours at 120-135.

Post by Spongiform
Quote:

I dehydrate mine at 125-135f till cracker dry with no noticeable potency issues.

The main thing that determines potency is genetics.  When you're doing a multispore grow, it's like rolling the dice with genetics.





Point is read before you post and make yourself look dumb for 2 reason one for not reading to see if the question was answered already and secondly for being wrong!!

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OfflineJuicyColor
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: novicemycology]
    #10413166 - 05/28/09 12:10 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, I am just kind of banking on a heat issue. Ive heard mixed reactions... so ill just eat the control amount, 3 grams, off of the new drying system and see if that has any different effect. But that could also be a genetic thing too..
Now im just thinking out loud. All i really want is a good trip damnit!
Also, i am a noob, what is a better growing system other than multispore inoculation. Agar?  Also sounds like next spore purchase will not be from Spores101. They sent me one syringe that was 8cc not 10cc with kind of pissed me off.

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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: JuicyColor]
    #10413214 - 05/28/09 12:20 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Don't automatically blame the dehydrator for potency loss. Genetics are obviously important, but proper storage is also key. You want the mushrooms completely dry and stored in a moisture free airtight container (like a jar) in a cool, dark place. Throwing a couple of silica packets in the container can't hurt either.


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InvisiblePrimefied
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: JuicyColor]
    #10413229 - 05/28/09 12:24 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I didnt know much about the multispore innoc genetic issue affecting potency, ill do some more reading on that one later.

Ive tended to notice as well that if it isnt the mushrooms specifically affecting the intensity of the trip, its the tripper.  Ive had an experience where the same batch of mushies one day was nothing but a body high and some giggles, and another day it was mind blowing.  And for both I ate about 3.5g and following my same ritual of doing tea, and not eating anything beforehand.

Any inights (if its not the cultivation process) for mental preparation to make the trips more consistent...or it could just be luck of the draw too?


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OfflineCyber
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: JuicyColor]
    #10413251 - 05/28/09 12:28 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

#1) Heat does not make a big different in the content, People make tea, Cook them in eggs, RR Grills them, Some people put them in melting chocolate, I have used a dehydrator set between 135f and 150f for years to dry mine and there is no noticeable difference.
#2) Multi spore is a crap shoot, I have had MS grows that produce killer trips and others that produce almost nothing.
#3) Content can vary from one mushrooms to the next on the same substrate, it can vary from one flush to the next. The first one can be bad and the next one great.


All in all, make another run and see how it goes. I bet the next batch is great! :wink:

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OfflineJuicyColor
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: Cyber]
    #10413262 - 05/28/09 12:33 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

How then would i "Stabilize" my results as far as potency goes... Is that what the rizomorphic isolation on agar media is for? Or does that not even necessarily ensure a more potent flush?

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OfflineCyber
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: JuicyColor]
    #10413399 - 05/28/09 01:05 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Isolation on agar is done to produce a more uniform fruiting though you could select and grow and test to find the one you like the most. I tend to have a couple of isolates that are preferred over others.

As to ensuring a more potent flush, well There is no way that I know of. From my personal subjective tests I find spawning to composted cow poo to be the best but others think that BRF produces the best potency results. Some say that by adding specific grains or other additives to the substrate you can get better results. It all boils down to subjective testing, AKA you eat them and decide for your self.

To date I do not know of any study that used quantitative tests to show any difference.

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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: Cyber]
    #10413583 - 05/28/09 01:48 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Also remember you build up an instant tolerance. If you've eaten mushrooms or acid in the past month, your results could be due to a high tolerance.  I know guys who think they can trip every weekend and feel the full effects.


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OfflineCyber
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: Spongiform]
    #10413636 - 05/28/09 01:59 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Spongiform, Week not month. You can do them 7 days apart with out seeing a lot of tolerance build up

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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: Cyber]
    #10413661 - 05/28/09 02:04 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Ah, in my personal experiences it seems about a month is what it takes to completely loose my tolerance.  I snagged this off of wikipedia, I suppose the month long time is just my personal biochemistry kicking me in the ass.

Quote:

Physiology

Psilocybin is absorbed through the lining of the mouth and stomach. Effects begin 10–40 minutes after ingestion of psilocybin-containing mushrooms, and last from 2–6 hours depending on dose, species, and individual metabolism.[21] A typical recreational dosage is from 10–50 mg psilocybin. However, a very small number of people are unusually sensitive to psilocybin's effects, where a normally threshold dose of around 2 mg of psilocybin can result in effects usually associated with medium and high doses. Likewise, there are some people who require relatively high doses of psilocybin to gain low-dose effects. Individual brain chemistry and metabolism play a large role in determining a person's response to psilocybin.

Psilocybin is metabolized mostly in the liver where it becomes psilocin. It is broken down by the enzyme monoamine oxidase. MAO inhibitors have been known to sustain the effects of psilocybin for longer periods of time; people who are taking an MAOI for a medical condition or are seeking to potentiate the mushroom experience may experience highly potentiated effects.

Mental and physical tolerance to psilocybin builds and dissipates quickly. Taking psilocybin more than three or four times in a week (especially on consecutive days) can result in diminished effects. Tolerance dissipates after a few days, so frequent users often keep doses spaced five to seven days apart to avoid the effect.




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Offline79towncar
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: Spongiform]
    #10413665 - 05/28/09 02:05 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

If using multispore is rolling the dice.......... How do you find that needle in the haystack?? I mean is there a way to determine if a grow will be potent without growing out dozens of different isolates? Or  is there a way to tell?? I mean are rhizomorphic mycelium more potent then say a cottony strand?? Is it totally unpractical to hope for good characteristics (big fruits, potency, quick growth)from a multispore?? Is it better to just start isolating your multispore on agar right away? Or is it better to roll the dice hope for a decent end result and then clone that particular mushroom.. I've been reading mixed opinions about this. Most of the threads I've read basically say that multi-spore is not a good way to go, that starting from an isolate is always better.. But what I am saying is this.. Since you can't buy isolates anywhere how to you go from multispore to an amazing strain? Is there certain things to look for while doing isolates? Or do you have to find that genetic quality your looking for by growing out dozens of isolates and fruiting them all.. I'm sorry if the way I worded this is confusing..

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OfflineSpongiform
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: 79towncar]
    #10413693 - 05/28/09 02:11 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

You pretty much hit the head on the nail. 

When I do multispore (which is most of what I do atm) I chop everything up into small pieces, dry and then mix it all up in an attempt to balance the potency. 

When doing isolates, you'll want to look for fast growing strains initially, so they colonize quickly.  After that you'll want to look for ones that fruit well.  Good pinsets or big clusters. 

Once you narrow that down, you'll want to test for potency.

Once you find a fast colonizing, high yielding, potent isolate, you've got a vial of pure gold in your hand.

I've got a vial of slow colonizing, low yielding, but very potent stuff someone gave me.  It's a pain to work with, but it's ridiculously potent.

One day I'll get the equipment to do isolates and have a blast with that.


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OfflineCyber
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: 79towncar]
    #10413700 - 05/28/09 02:12 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

The "needle in the haystack" tends to be the poor producers not the top producers.

As to isolates, you isolate out several substrains and grow them out. There is no easy way to ID which strain will be the best. Though rhizomorphic growth is normally a great strain!

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OfflineScucci
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: Spongiform]
    #10413706 - 05/28/09 02:12 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

We were talking about this earlier... since MS agar cultures are usually isolated for growth potential (which I don't believe equals potency potential) the only way to really isolate them would be a "Pepsi Challenge" with your grows.

As best I can figure... it would be starting dozens of clone cultures from dozens of different shrooms... labeling them and keeping track of them. Testing the shrooms... seeing with batches give you what you're looking for... then going back to the clone cultures and growing from them and testing again. Doesn't seem like there's any easy way to 100% tell from the start what you're going to be getting into.

Since most people say genetics is the deciding factor in potency... then clones of your best performers SHOULD stay steady across the board... Sadly, nothing you could really do to distribute the cultures since any spores that would drop from there could pretty much put you back to square 1.

If I'm way off base here, please lemme know.


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Offline79towncar
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: Scucci]
    #10413775 - 05/28/09 02:25 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Sry to hijack my thread... Thanks for all the fast answers!! Cyber I know what you mean about the needle in the haystack as being the poor producers.. But to find the "big three" (potency, big fruits, fast colonization) it's gotta be like finding that needle. Or maybe much easier then I think.. Spongeform... Good luck with your future isolation work. If you can somehow get that potent isolate to fruit better you def will have some gold in a vial haha. Thanx again! take it easy..

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OfflineJuicyColor
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: 79towncar]
    #10459640 - 06/05/09 12:12 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Just basically a bump for those that are wondering the outcome. I just got the second flush dried. 25.6g! Doin them up tonight!

Edited by JuicyColor (06/05/09 12:12 PM)

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Offlinefluffyshapes
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: JuicyColor]
    #10459907 - 06/05/09 01:20 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

have fun! :smile:

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OfflineJuicyColor
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: fluffyshapes]
    #10465190 - 06/07/09 10:22 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

My god, they worked. The different drying method is the only one i will use from now on. Those mushrooms made for one of the best trips ive ever had!!

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Offlinebrand0n
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Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: JuicyColor]
    #10465215 - 06/07/09 10:30 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

i hate spores101.

like plenty of noobies i found them some how for my 1st grow.

7 syringes.

one worked. one.

fuck. them.


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That did it! I am now the anti BRF CAKE! I have had enough! TO HELL WITH BRF! REAL MEN USE SEED! Go now brf younging. Get some seed. COME BACK A MAN!

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Offlineveda_sticks
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Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: JuicyColor]
    #10465253 - 06/07/09 10:43 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

JuicyColor said:
My god, they worked. The different drying method is the only one i will use from now on. Those mushrooms made for one of the best trips ive ever had!!





and wasnt due to a different drying method. But mutlispore, which previous posters have said.

Potenyc will vary from flush to flush, and even fruit to fruit.

I have fanned dried before and into desciscent, i have also dried in the warm updraught of my oven, had potent fruits, and weak fruits from both methods.

Im quite sensitive however though and dosing for me is quite small compared to others, 12 grams fresh gives me killer visuals. But i dont dose very often at all, infact its been almost 2 years.

glad you had a great time.


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Offlinebrand0n
large jar mad man!!


Registered: 02/09/09
Posts: 842
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: veda_sticks]
    #10465260 - 06/07/09 10:44 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

veda_sticks said:
Quote:

JuicyColor said:
My god, they worked. The different drying method is the only one i will use from now on. Those mushrooms made for one of the best trips ive ever had!!





and wasnt due to a different drying method. But mutlispore, which previous posters have said.

Potenyc will vary from flush to flush, and even fruit to fruit.

I have fanned dried before and into desciscent, i have also dried in the warm updraught of my oven, had potent fruits, and weak fruits from both methods.

Im quite sensitive however though and dosing for me is quite small compared to others, 12 grams fresh gives me killer visuals. But i dont dose very often at all, infact its been almost 2 years.

glad you had a great time.





wait.. what??

2 years???

dear gosh.


--------------------
That did it! I am now the anti BRF CAKE! I have had enough! TO HELL WITH BRF! REAL MEN USE SEED! Go now brf younging. Get some seed. COME BACK A MAN!

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Invisiblegoldieman
On some other shit!


Registered: 08/15/07
Posts: 296
Loc: midwest
Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: JuicyColor]
    #10999547 - 09/04/09 03:28 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I'm with veda. Each shroom in a multispore grow will have different potency levels. Another thing to watch out for is what you eat before taking the shrooms. If you just ate dinner an hour ago the effects of the shrooms would be noticably lower. If you wait for four or five hours after your food has digested, the effects are alot stronger.

I usually eat shrooms on an empty stomach. I'll have a nice healthy breakfast and lunch, take a good dump and eat shrooms for dinner. Thats just me tho. I hate wasting drugs and using them on a full stomach is a waste to me.

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Offlinedrumjam
Strangest
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Registered: 01/15/06
Posts: 248
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: goldieman]
    #10999682 - 09/04/09 03:55 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Glad you had a good time

But as others have stated, it's not the way your drying them, and if that's the only info your using to gauge your results, your going to miss a big part of this hobby, call science.

Don't start down that road.  Learn the facts and reason through the information.

GL

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Invisiblefeelfunny
I am you
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Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 8,747
Loc: South
Re: Good Grow, Bad High [Re: drumjam]
    #11000068 - 09/04/09 05:23 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

i second that


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