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OfflineXplosion84
Children OfBodom
Registered: 11/10/02
Posts: 56
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
sterilizing without a pressure cooker?
    #1041011 - 11/10/02 03:22 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Is it possible to sterilize without a pressure cooker? And how. The reason for this is because i don't have a pressurecooker and don't want to spend a lot of money for one, unless someone know's where to buy a cheap pressure cooker?


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Blend and balance pain and comfort deep within you till you will not have me any other wa

http://www.MycoSupply.com for all your mushie needs


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: Xplosion84]
    #1041031 - 11/10/02 03:31 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

What are you looking to sterilize, if its just brf cakes, then yes, just put them in a pot, fill 1/2 up the jars with water and bring to a slow boil on med high heat, once boiling, reduce heat to med low, put the lid on the pot, and cook it for 60-90 min. Look up a tek because I left out many parts but yes it can be done.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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OfflineShagrat
RegolithLicker

Registered: 06/26/02
Posts: 17
Loc: Eastern Mordor, in Eman A...
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: Xplosion84]
    #1041037 - 11/10/02 03:33 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

My friend Gorbag did his first few trials using waterbath sterilization. He prepped the substrate and placed the cake jars in a few inches of water and boiled (slow boil) for about an hour. The first time he got 13 contams out of 20 jars. The second time he was much more careful with sterile procedures (using the oven -tek, dousing the air with Lysol, etc) and got 5 contams out of 10 jars. The third and subsequent times he bought a pressure cooker and lowered the contam rate to about 1 in 10.

Gorbag says that you can do it by simply boiling the jars: just expect a high contamination rate. This really doesn't bother some people, as after a fruit reaches maturity, you can get a spore print and get a bunch of syringes from that.

Shagrat the happy orc



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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: Shagrat]
    #1041057 - 11/10/02 03:45 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah your first time you will almost indefinetly get contams, not to say that there aren't people out there that didn't. But with boiling I got my success rate up to about 10 out of 12 jars not contaminating. I just got a PC not too long ago, and decided to make PF cakes again, for shits and giggles, and not one of my jars contaminated.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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OfflineXplosion84
Children OfBodom
Registered: 11/10/02
Posts: 56
Last seen: 18 years, 6 months
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: Xplosion84]
    #1041072 - 11/10/02 03:55 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Ok.. after reading ur replies(Thanks for replying :-) ) i'v decided to get a pressure cooker... Problem is i'v been searching for a cheap one and i only could find ones that where in the price range of 100-200 bucks. I'm not going to be doing heavy duty Pressure Cooking... All i want to get is a good Pressure Cooker that cooks at the P.S.I needed to sterilize the jars but at a cheap price... Any ideas on what Pressure cooker to get?


--------------------
Blend and balance pain and comfort deep within you till you will not have me any other wa

http://www.MycoSupply.com for all your mushie needs


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OfflineSkikid16
fungus fan

Registered: 06/27/02
Posts: 5,666
Loc: In the middle of the nort...
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: Xplosion84]
    #1041076 - 11/10/02 03:59 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Go to ebay, do a search for pressure cookers (make sure you click the box that says search title and description) . I'd recommend getting an all american pressure cooker, they are the best, IMO. They last FOR EV ER.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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OfflineShagrat
RegolithLicker

Registered: 06/26/02
Posts: 17
Loc: Eastern Mordor, in Eman A...
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: Xplosion84]
    #1045375 - 11/12/02 02:51 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Gorbag got his at Wally-World for 70 bucks I think it was... it can hold 6 quart jars I think, or around a dozen half pints (or maybe more) if you stack em. His is by Presto... it has a pressure guage, a safety pop-out plug, and a weight for 15 psi.


Shagrat the happy orc


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Offlinerhizo
herb eater
Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 599
Loc: Superposition of possible...
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: Xplosion84]
    #1045583 - 11/12/02 06:34 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Dude, you don't need a pressure cooker unless you're doing whole grains like millet and rye. I recently did 15 jars with boiling and got no contams. The pot I use is low and wide and has a relatively tight fitting lid. I try to put as much water in as I can so I don't have to open it and refill it while it's cooking. I boil on low heat for 90 minutes. I was worried because I grind my own brf, and can only get a course flour. I've done this twice in the past so maybe experience helps, but it's definitely possible to get 0 contams with brf substrate mixtures without a pc. I'm currently experimenting with home-ground millet flour/verm cakes...I hope boiling is enough for course millet flour.


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An optimist is never pleasantly surprised.


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Offlinemlv
Stranger
Registered: 07/06/02
Posts: 114
Last seen: 14 years, 4 months
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: Xplosion84]
    #1045595 - 11/12/02 06:49 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

wal-mart, and k-mart should have smaller 20$ pressure cookers. They can only do 3 pints at a time but they do the job.


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InvisibleBi0TeK
elephant man

Registered: 11/07/02
Posts: 3,002
Loc: Yorkshire Moors, Great Br...
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: Xplosion84]
    #1045655 - 11/12/02 08:54 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I'd just use a big pot for the moment rather then spending 70 bucks on something you don't really need. I recently inoculated 12 jars after steaming them in a big pot and their doing great! I highly recommend the oven tek after boiling the jars though.

Good luck!.



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PROMOTE BACTERIA. THEY'RE THE ONLY CULTURE SOME PEOPLE HAVE.


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InvisibleWebMycelium
Phish Phiend

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 99
Loc: Farmhouse
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: Bi0TeK]
    #1045692 - 11/12/02 09:30 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Oven tek sucks see this pics proves it. Notice how the smokes goes straight into the jar

Got the image from Mycotopia


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mycelium: (pl. mycelia, adj. mycelial)
Mass of hyphae constituting the body (thallus) of a fungus



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InvisibleBilge
longtimenoC

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: WebMycelium]
    #1045698 - 11/12/02 09:39 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

i don't go for that diss of oven tek. i don't think anyone ever tried to suggest that oven tek somehow completely stops the movement of air. and if the air moves near the jar at all, it's got to move over and around the mouth of the jar.

the point of oven tek is to create a net movement of air away from the jar and into the room. the heat from the oven causes movement of air out of the oven and into the room. if the air moves at all there is no way to avoid the currents as indicated by that smoke. but the *net movement of air out of the oven and into the room* is what we're looking for and that is almost certainly accomplished.

a more accurate test would be to take several sticks of incense and place them around the oven to see how much smoke is drawn into the oven and then over the jar mouth.


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InvisibleWebMycelium
Phish Phiend

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 99
Loc: Farmhouse
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: Bilge]
    #1045780 - 11/12/02 10:47 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Notice the incense is located behind the jar away from the oven. So the air flow that is pushing the smoke into the jar is the air flow that would most likely be contaminated.


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mycelium: (pl. mycelia, adj. mycelial)
Mass of hyphae constituting the body (thallus) of a fungus



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OfflinePsiloSteve
Bioinformant
Registered: 04/08/00
Posts: 381
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: Bilge]
    #1045794 - 11/12/02 11:02 AM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I've had a 0% contam rate boiling jars when I broke my pressure cooker. This was accomplished by boiling, cooling and then boiling again. They did not colonize as fast as though. I think I cooked some of the nutrients out of it. You should look on ebay. I see pressure cookers on there all the time dirt cheap.


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Don't worry be happy!


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OfflineTeon
Chemist/Self-AppointedFAQ Facist
Male

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 321
Loc: Here
Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: PsiloSteve]
    #1045899 - 11/12/02 12:07 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Mirro makes a $40 model (available at a Mart near you) than can do 8 1/2pint jars or 6 pint jars at a time. Some would diss as it only gets up to 10psi, not 15, but some crazy chipmunk I knew used one with a 0% contam rate for over 4 months (and still going from what I hear)


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, have ever been, or will at any future time will be participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any legal statue; be it local, state, or federal law. All posts are works of fiction, and are intended for entertainment purposes only.

Don't just assume anything I or anyone else says is true. Test it for yourself. See if it's true.
Generate more useful information. The world is running desperately low on it.





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InvisibleBilge
longtimenoC

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: WebMycelium]
    #1045922 - 11/12/02 12:21 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

well, there's plenty of questions, none that can be resolved without further study:

is that air that is pushing the smoke coming from inside the oven or outside the oven? how can you be sure just looking at that picture?

(assuming that picture shows a tek failure) is the location of the jar the optimal location or is it too far out of the oven? would it work better if it were farther in the oven? would putting the jar on a different rack work better or worse? what temperature is the air compared to the surrounding air? would a different temperature work better?

i just think someone got it into their head that oven tek doesn't workl and then convinced themselves they were right by performing a very un-controlled experiment. i'm willing to concede oven tek is a bad idea but with the apparently large success rate using oven tek i'm not going to decide that based on this one 'experiment'.


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Shopping for your head? Visit HeadShopFinder.com or find Online Head Shops.


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InvisibleBilge
longtimenoC

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: Teon]
    #1045926 - 11/12/02 12:23 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

mirro also makes one that goes to 15 psi also $39 at wmart.


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Shopping for your head? Visit HeadShopFinder.com or find Online Head Shops.


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OfflineDERRAYLD
Constructus
Male

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 3,409
Loc: South Africa
Last seen: 1 hour, 36 minutes
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: Bilge]
    #1045987 - 11/12/02 12:53 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I did a similar experiment with my oven to see how valid that image was.
And as I expected that image is not factual.
I lit an incense stick and held it the same distance from the jar, the smoke didn`t even remotly go near the jar.
It merely wafted out the oven.
so you can draw your own conclusions.


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OfflineJovialLeprechaun
reasonableperson
Registered: 09/04/02
Posts: 276
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: Xplosion84]
    #1046112 - 11/12/02 01:37 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

buy one from walmart and return it when your done.

works every time


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I am a reasonable person.


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OfflineDERRAYLD
Constructus
Male

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 3,409
Loc: South Africa
Last seen: 1 hour, 36 minutes
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: JovialLeprechaun]
    #1046138 - 11/12/02 01:46 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Damn kids
Don`t buy and return unless you really have no option.
Don`t go scam a PC just to sterilise some jars man it`s just not on.
If you feel it`s necessary to scam everyone you really shouldn`t be growing mushrooms.
I didn`t have a PC for a long time so I boiled my brf/verm jars until I was able to afford a descent affordable PC.
I got one that took 4 pint jars, really nothing special but it does the job.
And for $25- R270 it`s a bargain man.


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InvisibleWebMycelium
Phish Phiend

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 99
Loc: Farmhouse
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: DERRAYLD]
    #1046183 - 11/12/02 02:05 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

Well I got different results from the experiment I just tried. The majority of the air flow actual come from underneath the oven door. The air that pushed out from the oven its self only pushed about a foot and a half away from the oven but at the same time it was still pulling the air from underneath the oven door at a faster rate. There is no way to prove who is right or wrong about the oven tek unless you were in a sealed room with equipment that none of us have availible.

Main point though Glove box's are cheap to build and best bet for keeping contamination out of your work unless you can afford a flow hood


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mycelium: (pl. mycelia, adj. mycelial)
Mass of hyphae constituting the body (thallus) of a fungus



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InvisibleBilge
longtimenoC

Registered: 08/26/02
Posts: 1,858
Loc: USA
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: WebMycelium]
    #1046388 - 11/12/02 03:29 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

totally agree with you on that.

plus i had another thought (two in one day!): if the air is rising out of the oven, it has to be coming from somewhere. you can't account for all the air movement due to expansion of heated air. the heat creates a current which pulls the air up out of the oven but when the hot air moves out, some cold air has to take it's place from outside the oven. so the hot air is moving contaminants upward and outward at the same time it is sucking contaminants in. net result: the first few seconds the air is probably pretty clean but it gets dirty quick.

either way you're right; nothing beats a glovebox for cheap and safe.


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Shopping for your head? Visit HeadShopFinder.com or find Online Head Shops.


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OfflineOn_the_Down-Low
Polyfil-ophile-Say it 3 timesfast.

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 401
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: Bilge]
    #1046664 - 11/12/02 04:54 PM (18 years, 11 months ago)

I've heard reputable posters swear by theOven Tek. Check out the post on the free glove box plans. Easy as tying your shoes.


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Offlinebigslick
science fictionwriter

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 186
Loc: just behind you
Last seen: 9 years, 1 month
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: Xplosion84]
    #1065927 - 11/19/02 12:29 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

Walmart pays workers shit and no benifits...I say screw them if you can


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Everything I write is a total work of fiction


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: sterilizing without a pressure cooker? [Re: bigslick]
    #1066520 - 11/19/02 04:33 PM (18 years, 10 months ago)

My brother gets benefits and he likes working for them. If you screw a store, they pass on their losses in higher prices to other customers.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (11/19/02 04:35 PM)


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