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OfflineCarcass
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An important question about casing layer...
    #10400989 - 05/26/09 09:23 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

If I apply casing layer, can I dunk & drain it after the harvest, for getting a next flush?

If the answer is yes, at the next time, what should I do? Should I apply a new casing layer or do what?

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Re: An important question about casing layer... [Re: Carcass]
    #10401559 - 05/26/09 11:38 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

You can remove the casing layer after the first flush is you so choose, but personally I would go by how the first flush acted... If there was a "so-so" pin set, that would usually mean that there are new pins already formed/forming in the existing casing layer; so removing it would work against you and possibly set the substrate back.

If the pin set was full, then odds are that most of the casing layer was destroyed while the flush was picked... in which case, I would recase and not expect a second flush with a lot of fruits; I would instead expect fewer fruits, but larger in size.

You definitely have options... you could just go without a casing layer for the second flush.

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InvisiblePliny the Elder
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Re: An important question about casing layer... [Re: fahtster]
    #10401629 - 05/26/09 11:57 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fahtster said:
You can remove the casing layer after the first flush is you so choose, but personally I would go by how the first flush acted... If there was a "so-so" pin set, that would usually mean that there are new pins already formed/forming in the existing casing layer; so removing it would work against you and possibly set the substrate back.

If the pin set was full, then odds are that most of the casing layer was destroyed while the flush was picked... in which case, I would recase and not expect a second flush with a lot of fruits; I would instead expect fewer fruits, but larger in size.

You definitely have options... you could just go without a casing layer for the second flush.




What about harvesting with scissors?  Should preserve the casing layer, allowing it to be rehydrated with misting instead of dunking.



Also, while you're here, I had a question about your bulk tub tek in your sig.  When you pasteurize the bulk substrate, you say "Then I take a clean knife and poke small holes all over the bag about every two inches to let the substrate  breathe while it cools... if you don't do this, you'll probably end up with bacteria infestation.. I've had it happen."

How do those holes help prevent contamination?  Isn't the substrate still full of bacteria that were not killed by pasteurization?

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Re: An important question about casing layer... [Re: Pliny the Elder]
    #10401702 - 05/26/09 12:13 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

If you are harvesting with scissors then you aren't removing all of the "flesh" of the fruit, which means the flesh left in the casing layer is going to rot, which is bad joo joo.


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Re: An important question about casing layer... [Re: Pliny the Elder]
    #10401704 - 05/26/09 12:14 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

well, I was having problems with the substrate contaminating after the pasteurization if I left the bags sealed up on the test runs I was doing.. It could be due to the substrate not being completely pasteurized.  The substrate would get stinky if left alone without air.  But after I started poking the holes and moving the substrate around while it cooled, I didn't have any problems.

You can pasteurize the substrate any way you'd like... that's just the way it worked well for me. :smile:  The layering with the extra quart on the top grain layer is really what I want to be taken away from that write-up I suppose.  I'd probably do the pasteurization in the oven with the oven bags nowadays anyhow.

Try a bunch of different things and stick with what works for ya. :thumbup:

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Re: An important question about casing layer... [Re: fahtster]
    #10401842 - 05/26/09 12:44 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

well this is my first growth so i really don't know what to do.
thanks for the answers. let me explain a little bit more.

For the first flush I didn't used casing layer. And I'm gonna put it to FC for second flush.

Here are some pictures of my first flush:
 

As you see there are spore marks on the surface. Some my mature shrooms left their spores.
So I didn'e expect a great result for the second flush but most people say Cambodian's second flush can be more big at sizes.
And at my first flush there weren't any shrooms at the surface, all the shrooms appeared at sides, so my target is surface now and I'm thinking of applying casing layer because of this.
I've shotgun FC and I guess I can't provide enough humidity and the another reason is this.

Some people say dunk 12 hours, some says 24 at stagnant water... What should I do? How much time should I dunk it?

For this time I dunked my cake for 12 hours and here are its pictures taken a few minutes ago:


Waiting for your suggestions, comments.
Thanks again.

Edited by Carcass (05/26/09 12:46 PM)

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Re: An important question about casing layer... [Re: Carcass]
    #10402241 - 05/26/09 02:07 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Is that a straight grain substrate?  It looks like there is a large amount of grain if not straight grain... In your situation I would have cased.  When there is a large amount of grain near the fruiting surface, heavy matting can happen due to high nutrient grain spawn causing dense growth there.  Grain spawn by itself isn't very good at keeping it's water content optimal to support a large flush... that's why we use cakes (vermiculite in the cake mix) and dunk them prior to first flush and in between flushes.

It's also part of the reason that we spawn to something that is low in nutrients, but hold large amounts of water like wheat straw, Hpoo, Coir, etc.  These low nutrient substrate allow the mycelium to grow less dense which is more supportive for a large amount of pinning and eventually a nice full flush.

You probably had most of the fruits growing on the bottom up because that's where most of the water in the substrate settled.  I would case that and follow hyphae's pinning strategy.. lightly misting the casing will also help in keeping the water content high near the pinning surface until pins form; you would then stop misting.  Watering the casing will also keep it from getting over colonized as well.  Putting a casing on a straight grain substrate (or one that is very high is grain spawn) will force rhizo growth in the non-nutritious casing breaking up the dense growth which is more favorable for pins.

If you are going to be using straight grains, I would try pasteurizing Hpoo, wheat straw, or coir OR a combination of all of those, etc. and spawning to them.  Good luck either way. :thumbup:

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Re: An important question about casing layer... [Re: fahtster]
    #10402407 - 05/26/09 02:43 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

lol dude, this is not a straight grain substrate. i don't think a straight grain substrate will fruit?
it's almost a 50-50 spawned coir-coffee substrate. also bulk substrate pasteurized.
i just do the spawning without measuring. And I spawn by layering. So grain kernels seems much.
In worst case there's %40 bulk substrate.
And thank you again for the late casing thread. It'll help me.

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Re: An important question about casing layer... [Re: Carcass]
    #10402487 - 05/26/09 02:57 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

oh right on, my bad... it just looks like a lot of grain; just kind of went with that.

either way, I'd case it and keep it hydrated.  weird that it didn't fruit on top then.  :shrug:

How thick is that top layer of bulk substrate?

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Re: An important question about casing layer... [Re: fahtster]
    #10402585 - 05/26/09 03:19 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

very thick. 3-5 milimetres.

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Re: An important question about casing layer... [Re: Carcass]
    #10402627 - 05/26/09 03:30 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

well, 3-5 mm isn't very thick.. that's less than a 1/4 inch I believe.. I could be missing something though.  I guess it matters how thick your grain spawn is.  I would make that top layer a bit thicker if you want more growth off the top OR give it a little bit thicker casing layer and keep it nice and hydrated... could be other things of course.

could put out a real nice pin set this second flush also.. lets hope so eh. :smile:

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Re: An important question about casing layer... [Re: fahtster]
    #10402667 - 05/26/09 03:41 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

i'll do my best to get a good result at second flush. An hour later i'm gonna put my cake to FC. My pasteurized casing layer is ready.
10 parts peat moss, 10 parts vermiculite, 1 part gypsum, 1/4 part h.lime.

when will I have to start misting and fanning after applying casing layer?

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Re: An important question about casing layer... [Re: Carcass]
    #10402721 - 05/26/09 03:54 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

This is for reference

But since it's the second flush, you may want to just mist right after casing and just keep the casing moist; spraying as needed.

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