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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10401576 - 05/26/09 11:43 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

when a priest says magic words over a piece of bread it becomes the body of a jew that supposedly died 2000 years ago.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #10401611 - 05/26/09 11:52 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I took a communion wafer to the DNA lab and guess what?


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Invisiblerebus_minus
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread *DELETED* [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10401630 - 05/26/09 11:57 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Post deleted by rebus_minus

Reason for deletion: .

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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread [Re: rebus_minus]
    #10401745 - 05/26/09 12:23 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

point being a person on his way becoming a shaman is on his own and once the initiation appears to have ended there is no need to "prove" anything to anyone but develop his craft and try to help people out.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #10401773 - 05/26/09 12:27 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
point being a person on his way becoming a shaman is on his own and once the initiation appears to have ended there is no need to "prove" anything to anyone but develop his craft and try to help people out.




Quote:

b0red5tiff said:
i don't think no one is gonna call himself "shaman". it's not a car mechanics class that you graduate, get a title and then get on with your job. i think the society starts calling him a shaman because that's what everyone thinks a shaman does.




Aren't these contradictory statements?  :confused:


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread [Re: deCypher]
    #10401804 - 05/26/09 12:35 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

*opinions

what society sees him and what the person himself sees himself as are two different thing, of course.


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Offlinepsychedelia56
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #10402242 - 05/26/09 02:07 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

So a Shaman is defined as being someone who helps others through spiritual methods?

Hmm.

That's too bad, I've always thought of myself as being a Shaman.. but only in the healing sense. I don't think I could ever see myself being some sort of psychic who "channels spiritual power" to heal the mind. My version of "shamanism" is helping people by having spiritual experiences with them, using psychedelics like mushrooms or lsd to help them open their mind and to mend it.

And when I say "I've always thought of myself as being a Shaman.." I mean more or less that I've thought over time that being a person that helps others by having spiritual experiences with them is something I'd love to do. I'm a people person and a problem solver, I love psychedelics and have already realized their importance in my life, and I can only think of no better way then to put all these together then by being a shaman. So, am I wrong or right about that? Is what I'm going after a shamanism idea or is it something completely different?

I guess in a typical sense how it would be is like, I have a clinic with a bunch of rooms and "shamans", who sit down with you for a period of time to go through a spiritual experience aided by psychedelic substances. Using proper methods and techniques I think something real could happen with this - you know, helping people. That's all I want to do; I want to improve the quality of living for others.


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[quote]Shad0w said:
A Bong is like the "fukit" of getting high...... You are smoking out of a bong for one reason. And one reason only. To get super high out of your mind.[/quote]

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OfflineFraggin
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread [Re: psychedelia56]
    #10402340 - 05/26/09 02:29 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Shaman is a siberian term. And the whole idea of shamanism is based on communication between this world and the spirit world...

I feel that the term shaman has come to be adopted by the enthogenic-using generation to coin their heightend awareness of the ethereal world. Though I don't agree that simply acknowledging this other dimension exists makes one a practicioner of spirit/terra communications. It may make one receptive, but to attune yourself with the spirit world is more of a calling and a lifestyle. If you own an xbox, you are not a shaman.

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread [Re: Fraggin]
    #10402470 - 05/26/09 02:54 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Um, because miraculous feats are impossible. Shamans were never in touch with the Spirit World, they were just adept at selling that idea to the populace.





I've always found the folie a deux phenomenon to be interesting in this context.

What makes an individual who is near a schizophrenic individual, begin to see what the schizophrenic sees? Close interpersonal relationship seems to be a must, or trust if you will. Also, by todays standards, social isolation or a lack of societal explanations.

Trust and a lack of alternative explanation = both people experiencing the delusion?

Can we really be convinced of reality so easily? Does it merely take someone telling us what we're seeing, or should be seeing, in order for us to see it? Can the mind really create what it feels it should see? If so, how can we ever be sure that society is accurate in any way, regardless of time period?




That is a psychological study I would be interested in seeing.


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Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!

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InvisibleQuetzalcohuatl
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread [Re: Fraggin]
    #10402481 - 05/26/09 02:55 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

tricksters serve an important role

some people think clowns are sinister and scary some see them as funny

we all have egos and the need to protect ourselves

sometimes laughter is better medicine than the straight up to the rope dopety dope

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread [Re: Fraggin]
    #10402568 - 05/26/09 03:14 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

If you own an xbox, you are not a shaman.




I don't even know what an xbox is; therefore I am a shaman!


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OfflineFraggin
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10402573 - 05/26/09 03:15 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I don't know what a fallacy is, therefore, I am infalliable.

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InvisibleQuetzalcohuatl
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #10402574 - 05/26/09 03:15 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

i am a shaman because I shop at i am scammin i mean i shaman

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread [Re: Quetzalcohuatl]
    #10402654 - 05/26/09 03:37 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

If you own an xbox, you are not a shaman.




Are you saying that shamanism is a game for the xbox?

Count me in.

.

Seriously though, If we were to venture the most objective definition wouldn't it be defined by the material substances?

The hardware?

If it was shaman, couldn't it be a crappy shaman, a shaman who doesn't deserve his title, and by that I mean one who as a subject to discourse, might or not might deserve to be listened to because his xbox strategy sucks? For instance, OC could refer the shaman as he does any guru. Nothing special besides material circumstances.

What is wrong with that?


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Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
  The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
  The frumious Bandersnatch!

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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread [Re: Quetzalcohuatl]
    #10402655 - 05/26/09 03:37 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

So a Shaman is defined as being someone who helps others through spiritual methods?

Hmm.

That's too bad, I've always thought of myself as being a Shaman.. but only in the healing sense. I don't think I could ever see myself being some sort of psychic who "channels spiritual power" to heal the mind. My version of "shamanism" is helping people by having spiritual experiences with them, using psychedelics like mushrooms or lsd to help them open their mind and to mend it.




no. that's what i've been trying to say, that "shaman" is a common word that generally points to the person committing these deeds previously mentioned. you can call it whatever but "shaman" is the nomenclature most mentioned in older societies.

this can be illustrated as defining someone who is native american.
"a native american is someone who looks like i think a native american should look like. anyone not looking like i define it is not a native american, despite all claims to support that".

and shamanism is very personal. various people have various methods and no masters. sometimes older shamans guide the young but this is rare. generally through history shamans have listened to their inner self/voices/spirits/hunch to develop HIGHLY INDIVIDUAL METHODS.

Quote:

And when I say "I've always thought of myself as being a Shaman.." I mean more or less that I've thought over time that being a person that helps others by having spiritual experiences with them is something I'd love to do. I'm a people person and a problem solver, I love psychedelics and have already realized their importance in my life, and I can only think of no better way then to put all these together then by being a shaman. So, am I wrong or right about that? Is what I'm going after a shamanism idea or is it something completely different?




i'd say you are aware of what you are doing (a degree of enlightenment) with the purpose of aiding those in need. what i think is needed is to drop labeling everything and then trying to fit that label. i see psychedelics as a tool, not an end in itself and it would be great if you'd try to develop your skills as a helper to aid people without those drugs because they are not gonna be there for you forever.
you have the right idea but i suggest you read on a wide variety of subjects, like how psychology and science sees shamanism, how anthropology sees it and how one has traditionally become a shaman. the more you learn the more freedom you have in yourself to maneuver.


Quote:

I guess in a typical sense how it would be is like, I have a clinic with a bunch of rooms and "shamans", who sit down with you for a period of time to go through a spiritual experience aided by psychedelic substances. Using proper methods and techniques I think something real could happen with this - you know, helping people. That's all I want to do; I want to improve the quality of living for others.




these days a psychologist is a shaman. the old goddesses and gods have been turned into archetypes and inner selves. i have seen a lot of people on these boards looking for an "authentic" image of a shamanic session. this is a pitfall of absurdity imo, there is no authentic shamanism. shamanism has never been a school or a course, it's been a spontaneous event taking place on different places on the globe without each others aid.

in your case i would just forget terms "shamanism" and spirituality and focus on whats going on now: helping others where its needed. just follow your instincts, not dry books or empty intellectualism.


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OfflineFraggin
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #10402680 - 05/26/09 03:44 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

No one want's to cite Wikipedia?

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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread [Re: Fraggin]
    #10402701 - 05/26/09 03:49 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

i think OC is just getting warmed up and ready, wiki will arrive as planned :awesome:


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #10402750 - 05/26/09 03:59 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Pre-civilized humans tended to have a BUNCH of people who did the HARD work, and a handful of people reserved for the COOL jobs.

Most people were hunters or gatherers.

Then there were the chiefs/shamans/storytellers.

Today we are quite similar.... albeit more "civilized".

Most people are workers.

A handful are politicians, preachers, doctors and artists.

Old world shamans, for the most part, took the roll of both preacher and doctor... since science as we know it had not yet been invented and the people of the time did not see any difference between either field. Now we do. Would you want a Catholic priest to give you a vasectomy?


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Offlinepsychedelia56
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #10402753 - 05/26/09 04:00 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks b0red5tiff, I think you've answered my questions.

That makes sense. I'll heed your advice :smile:


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[quote]Shad0w said:
A Bong is like the "fukit" of getting high...... You are smoking out of a bong for one reason. And one reason only. To get super high out of your mind.[/quote]

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: THE "I think i might be a SHAMAN" thread [Re: Rose]
    #10402782 - 05/26/09 04:07 PM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Would you want a Catholic priest to give you a vasectomy?




No, but maybe a bj...


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