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OfflineLegoulash
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Whats with petri dishes???
    #1039840 - 11/10/02 12:52 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I always see people growing myc in petri dishes. why do they do this?Is it possible to make a big petri dish inject some spores and then put in a casing with BRF and verm when colinized,


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: Whats with petri dishes??? [Re: Legoulash]
    #1039852 - 11/10/02 12:55 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

They use petri dishes for agar isolation, this is where the mycelium grows on agar and you can isolate the best and strongest pieces of mycelium to trasfer to a substrate, so the mushrooms that you grow from that mycelium would be better than if you grew from a multispore inoculation.


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OfflineJovialLeprechaun
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Re: Whats with petri dishes??? [Re: Skikid16]
    #1040080 - 11/10/02 02:17 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

dude you've got the patience of a saint. 5 shrooms to you.


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: Whats with petri dishes??? [Re: JovialLeprechaun]
    #1040175 - 11/10/02 03:02 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Ha, tell that to my girlfriend, but thanks for the comment and shrooms.


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OfflineLlamanose
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Re: Whats with petri dishes??? [Re: Skikid16]
    #1040334 - 11/10/02 04:53 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I always wondered about agar too...  I knew it wasn't a substrate, I just didn't know what the purpose was...  :smirk: 


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"Where do you want to go?" responded the Cheshire cat.
"I don't know," Alice answered.
"Then," said the cat, "it doesn't matter."
~Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Whats with petri dishes??? [Re: Skikid16]
    #1040470 - 11/10/02 07:20 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

you can isolate the best and strongest pieces of mycelium

This is almost correct. There are two basic reasons for growing out mycelium on agar.

1) Growth on agar is 2D making it very easy to see contaminations.

2) Using agar, you can isolate a single dikaryotic growth. At this stage it is difficult to tell if the isolate is the best or not... in some very rare cases the isolate may not even fruit. The benefit of the isolate is that the growth parameters are identical during the fruiting phase. In other words, all the mushrooms pin and mature at the same rate. Instead of picking a few today, and a few tomorrow, and a few the next day, etc... they are all the same, and you pick them all at once.

In a multispore innoculation the different growths compete with each other, some fruit early, others late, and some not at all. Some fruit are small, some are large, some are potent, some aren't. With an isolate from agar, everything is the same, good or bad.


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OfflineShrewDigsby
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Re: Whats with petri dishes??? [Re: Seuss]
    #1256905 - 01/28/03 09:52 PM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

you can isolate the best and strongest pieces of mycelium

This is almost correct. There are two basic reasons for growing out mycelium on agar.

1) Growth on agar is 2D making it very easy to see contaminations.

2) Using agar, you can isolate a single dikaryotic growth. At this stage it is difficult to tell if the isolate is the best or not... in some very rare cases the isolate may not even fruit. The benefit of the isolate is that the growth parameters are identical during the fruiting phase. In other words, all the mushrooms pin and mature at the same rate. Instead of picking a few today, and a few tomorrow, and a few the next day, etc... they are all the same, and you pick them all at once.

In a multispore innoculation the different growths compete with each other, some fruit early, others late, and some not at all. Some fruit are small, some are large, some are potent, some aren't. With an isolate from agar, everything is the same, good or bad.




I like this answer.

I Have another question that's an add on.

Has anyone cultured mycelia in altered growing conditions and then made a spore transfer from the strongest growth in these conditions...thus say, possibly finding a strong fruiter requiring a slightly lower humidity or temp or ( )after multiple cloning?
I know, if chamber conditions are right there's no need for this, but it sounds like an interesting experiment.

If this is in a previous thread, sorry...I must have missed it during my homework.


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Marijuana is a horticultural plant.  Hemp is an industrial weed.  I believe they were both provided to us by GOD to use and enjoy.


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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: Whats with petri dishes??? [Re: ShrewDigsby]
    #1257388 - 01/29/03 05:09 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

i think you are missing the concept that multispore (in almost all cases) is just that, multispore and thereby contains a good mix of good, bad, soso "strains". the agar is used to isolate these different "strains". so an answer to your last question, in a word, NO (as there is no way to pick a robust fruit and say that all the spores in there are going to produce robust "strains"). As to the parts concerning "training" a strain to "like" different growing/fruiting environments, well, I haven't experimented there. anybody else? if anything, I have been "training" all strains I come across to grow/fruit in the exact same conditions since I keep all my conditions constant to what is supposed to be optimal for cubensis in general.


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OfflineShrewDigsby
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Re: Whats with petri dishes??? [Re: debianlinux]
    #1257405 - 01/29/03 05:21 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for your reply. I reread what I wrote and I apparantly wasn't clear in my thoughts. Just spit it out too fast. I'm learning so I seemed to have thrown some words around that aren't accurate w/ the concepts or procedures. I only had one question and that's the second one you answered for me. Thanks. Your first answer cleared up my mess that I wrote.

I'm comfortable w/ the multispore concept and it's abilities and limitations, but if I understood correctly you did enlighten me w/ the fact that if I performed multi transfers while continuing to isolate the most robust strain, grew and fruited, made spore print from a robust shroom, and repeated the process it would still result in mycelia that is "average", or not yielding the same properties of the cultured mycelia that it grew from....Correct?

If you're interested in answering, I'd also be curious if any inside growers try to mimic any outside growing conditions within their growing chamber...I'm specifically thinking of temperature fluctuations for day and night. If so, any personal conclusions or thoughts on the matter?

Really I'd be interested in any agar or growing experiments that growers have done to attempt to strengthen or isolate a cultured strain w/ a particular trait (if this is possible of course)


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Marijuana is a horticultural plant.  Hemp is an industrial weed.  I believe they were both provided to us by GOD to use and enjoy.


Edited by ShrewDigsby (01/29/03 05:34 AM)


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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: Whats with petri dishes??? [Re: ShrewDigsby]
    #1257454 - 01/29/03 05:49 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

you did enlighten me w/ the fact that if I performed multi transfers while continuing to isolate the most robust strain, grew and fruited, made spore print from a robust shroom, and repeated the process it would still result in mycelia that is "average", or not yielding the same properties of the cultured mycelia that it grew from....Correct?




that is correct. i would walk out on a limb and say that the ulispore from an isolate's fruit may have ahigher probability of having more robust "strains". the phrase "repeated the process" confuses me. if you take the mutisporeprint from an isolate and then further isolate that then no, you would most likely end up with more consistently badass fruits. but, i think you are saying "what if i get a good isolate, fruit it, print a fruit... is that print full of spores of a single badass "strain" just like my isolate?"

Quote:


If you're interested in answering, I'd also be curious if any inside growers try to mimic any outside growing conditions within their growing chamber...I'm specifically thinking of temperature fluctuations for day and night. If so, any personal conclusions or thoughts on the matter?




i have never done this although there are some minor temperature as well as humidity fluctuations in my incubation chamber from night to day (about 1.6 degrees and about 4%) every day. i think that this would lengthen the amount of time from inoculation to fruit. think about MJ. when you are growing the plant (pre-fruiting) you use a 24hour, always on light cycle. you use the 12/12 or whatever to INITIATE fruiting. Other than Alsaka or some odd place whewre does nature provide a 24 hour lights on cycle? nowhere. during the period of darkness there is no photosynthesis and therefore less growth. so it is advantageous to not mimic nature. the same concept carries over to fungus. during the night with cooler temps the mycelium will slow it's growth. how is that a good thing for an indoor cultivator who can alter the environment to provide a constant/optimal temperature and force the mycelium to grow at top speed all the time? again, it is advantageous not to mimic nature. mimicing nature does come in to play. consider pasteurizing as opposed to sterilizing poo... it retains beneficial, naturally-occuring bacteria. sometimes mimicing nature is the best course of action. other times it is to your advantage to not mimic nature. just takes a small amount of thought to figure out which ways to mimic and which ways to not.


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OfflineShrewDigsby
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Re: Whats with petri dishes??? [Re: debianlinux]
    #1257481 - 01/29/03 06:04 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

Again, cool replies...thanks. 5 Shrooms

1st part, you followed me correctly.

2nd part, I follow you. W/ the concern of temperature I had and idea or (hypothesis rather), but I'll just have to test it and learn via trial and ERROR. It's a foolish hypothesis, but it caught my curiosity.


Thanks


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Marijuana is a horticultural plant.  Hemp is an industrial weed.  I believe they were both provided to us by GOD to use and enjoy.


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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: Whats with petri dishes??? [Re: ShrewDigsby]
    #1257505 - 01/29/03 06:19 AM (14 years, 7 months ago)

glad i could help. i love to help those who have obviously made the efoort to educate themselves and especially those who think outside the written box on cultivation. good help is like good karma (literally and figuratively) it comes back to you.


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