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RedDevil420
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Registered: 01/03/09
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Steam sterilization
#10389339 - 05/24/09 02:43 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Could the epic failures in steam sterilization be happening because we only sterilize for the same amount of time as when we pressure cook - which is at a higher temperature?
i just read (at the end of the fifth paragraph) HERE: "Bagged substrate mixes are steamed for anywhere from 4-12 hours depending on the farm, with 10 hours being the time I’ve seen used most."
This is a detailed post on commercial mushroom farming.
I know with the PF tek, an hour or two does work. But with grains we may just need to keep it going longer. Am i correct here?
-------------------- I'm Just Making This All Up. Grains In Glass Jars With Professional Filters FTW. Coir Monotubs FTW. Sterile Technique FTW. Fan dry, Desiccant storage FTW. Ralphster's Spores FTW. Mushroom Cloud - Dirtball
Edited by RedDevil420 (05/24/09 02:56 AM)
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veda_sticks
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Registered: 07/29/07
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No, grains must be sterilised in a pressure cooker. steam sterilisation isnt hot enough to kill bacteria thats present, even for longer times which could also over cook the grains.
Your link just throughs back to the shroomery home page
-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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RedDevil420
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Registered: 01/03/09
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fixed the link
-------------------- I'm Just Making This All Up. Grains In Glass Jars With Professional Filters FTW. Coir Monotubs FTW. Sterile Technique FTW. Fan dry, Desiccant storage FTW. Ralphster's Spores FTW. Mushroom Cloud - Dirtball
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RogerRabbit
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Registered: 03/26/03
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Quote:
Could the epic failures in steam sterilization be happening because we only sterilize for the same amount of time as when we pressure cook
I'm not aware of epic failures with steam sterilization. It's effective on brown rice flour, and on unsupplemented sawdust.
If using the brf tek, a common failure is starting the timer when the water boils. You should have the jars completely OUT of the water, so only the steam touches them, and don't start the timer until steam escapes from the lid. If using 1/2 pint jars, use 90 minutes. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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veda_sticks
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Registered: 07/29/07
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except for my mates epic failures (RR you replied to my topic in the contamination with some good advice)
I still havnt figured out why, but i have started a few jars on my own, using a less than ideal pot that i heave to seal the steam vent lid, and also put a seal round the pot lid. 4 days so far, mycelium has started to grow and no green yet.
So, theres something he isnt doing right and i just havnt spotted it yet.
If its done right, it should work fine.
I know of quite a few people that steam sterilise fine with the pf tek.
I sterilise for 2 hours 5 minutes after the boil, steam escapes the lids around then, but its a small pot and i know the jars havnt gotten upto temp in 5 minutes.
With steam sterilisaton, you steam 90 minutes (as RR said, after steam escapes) with pressure cooking you can cook for 60 minutes at 15 psi.
Ive used both methods, pressure cooking was my preferred method, much easier, less time more efficient.
-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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RedDevil420
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Registered: 01/03/09
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I mean whole grains with steam sterilization. I acknowledged that it works with PF tek.
Quote:
RedDevil420 said: I know with the PF tek, an hour or two does work. But with grains we may just need to keep it going longer. Am i correct here?
If it can kill whatever is in the jars for the PF tek, so in theory it should be able to kill the same things on whole grains. I think we may just need to steam them for 5-12 hours. I posted a link from a commercial grower, and unless I read wrong - he said the most common time used for sterilization at atmospheric pressure was 10 hours.
Maybe Ill try it and let you know.. (can't try it for a month or two though) It would be time consuming, but would save the n00b growers that only want to do it once from having to buy a pressure cooker.
-------------------- I'm Just Making This All Up. Grains In Glass Jars With Professional Filters FTW. Coir Monotubs FTW. Sterile Technique FTW. Fan dry, Desiccant storage FTW. Ralphster's Spores FTW. Mushroom Cloud - Dirtball
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RogerRabbit
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Quote:
If it can kill whatever is in the jars for the PF tek, so in theory it should be able to kill the same things on whole grains.
Incorrect theory.
Grains such as rye harbor bacterial endospores that can survive many hours at 212F/100C. Brown rice does not. That's why we use pressure cookers for whole grains. Noobs will just have to stick to brf tek or pony up the dough for a pressure cooker if they want success more than a tiny fraction of the time. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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limebus26
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Registered: 05/17/09
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kinda off topic here but not really i have a steamer pot that i use to steam my veggies you know them double pots where you put the water in the bottom and then your veggies in the top pot would this be better worse or same as just using a regular old pot with a lid for the pf tek
-------------------- If justice is blind why can't i wear flip-flops in court?
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chronosync
kicked the habit. shed my skin.

Registered: 01/23/09
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Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Re: Steam sterilization [Re: limebus26]
#10395254 - 05/25/09 09:41 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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any pot will work. you simply need to keep the jars out of the water, enveloped in steam for 90+ minutes, and dont let the pot boil dry. thats the main thing. a vegetable steamer would be great for this, depending on the size, and if its small, the amount of time you want to take if you have to do batches.
when i did it i used a huge enamel stew pot. jar rings and aluminum foil on the bottom to keep them elevated. i added a bit too much water and some of the jars were resting in it. whoops. i had the lid cracked and kept my gas stove low after the full boil was achieved. just high enough so that i was seeing steam and hearing some bubbling from the pot.
even though some of my jars were partially in the water i trusted that the foil i wrapped tightly on the tops would keep excess water out.
it worked fine. first signs of growth appeared in 5 days. cottony and thin. two weeks later? my jars are all about %25 and showing signs of strong rhizomorphic growth (EQ)
i am using 1/4 pint jars though so mabey thats my saving grace..... SO FAR. but then again i also have a plastic 9.6oz food storage container, done the same way that is eating the crap out of the BRF
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limebus26
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Registered: 05/17/09
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Re: Steam sterilization [Re: chronosync]
#10395296 - 05/25/09 09:53 AM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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thanks chrono as far as time goes i'm laid off and have all the time in the world it's partially why i'm starting this hobby now i never had the time before and really i couldn't believe how cheap it is to do the pf tek i was able to find everything i need for under 20 bucks well minus plastic bins but i had those lying around
-------------------- If justice is blind why can't i wear flip-flops in court?
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chronosync
kicked the habit. shed my skin.

Registered: 01/23/09
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Re: Steam sterilization [Re: limebus26]
#10396208 - 05/25/09 02:08 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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cheap? yeah. and once you're set. it can be done for FREE.....almost.
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RedDevil420
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Registered: 01/03/09
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Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
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Re: Steam sterilization [Re: chronosync]
#10397166 - 05/25/09 04:57 PM (14 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well I'm ordering an All American 921 so ill probably never test my theory lmfao... and damn.. they're over $200!
-------------------- I'm Just Making This All Up. Grains In Glass Jars With Professional Filters FTW. Coir Monotubs FTW. Sterile Technique FTW. Fan dry, Desiccant storage FTW. Ralphster's Spores FTW. Mushroom Cloud - Dirtball
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