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Offlineskatealex2
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Netherlands to close down prisons for Lack Of Crime- Good thing we have the war on drugs right?
    #10389233 - 05/24/09 01:41 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

http://digg.com/world_news/Netherlands_to_close_prisons_for_lack_of_criminals


I think this news is very interesting. Shows how ridiculous the drug war is..............:bongroll:


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InvisibleUnholyChild666
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Re: Netherlands to close down prisons for Lack Of Crime- Good thing we have the war on drugs right? [Re: skatealex2]
    #10389422 - 05/24/09 03:25 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

The country now has capacity for 14,000 prisoners but only 12,000 detainees.




They must have very small prisons you think they would just have several large ones.


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Invisiblesui
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Re: Netherlands to close down prisons for Lack Of Crime- Good thing we have the war on drugs right? [Re: UnholyChild666]
    #10389426 - 05/24/09 03:26 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I think its great, its a great thing for the legalzation movement here.


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OfflineAmericanPsycho
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Re: Netherlands to close down prisons for Lack Of Crime- Good thing we have the war on drugs right? [Re: skatealex2]
    #10389448 - 05/24/09 03:33 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Too bad I'm not smart enough to learn dutch  :bitchslap:


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Netherlands to close down prisons for Lack Of Crime- Good thing we have the war on drugs right? [Re: AmericanPsycho]
    #10389528 - 05/24/09 04:13 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

You'd do fine with English.  Its a country that everyone flocks to, it really has a rich wealth of different languages being spoken there.

Its aways good to learn the countries language though, out of respect.


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Re: Netherlands to close down prisons for Lack Of Crime- Good thing we have the war on drugs right? [Re: Ego Death]
    #10389617 - 05/24/09 05:10 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

most modern countrys in the western world learn english. its MUCH more common for people to learn english as a second language in most eurpean countrys than it is for americans to learn another countrys language.


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OfflineMotherNaturesSon
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Re: Netherlands to close down prisons for Lack Of Crime- Good thing we have the war on drugs right? [Re: sui]
    #10389628 - 05/24/09 05:23 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

whell this is proof- prohibition leads to more crime. But I believe the world is coming to see that lately.


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OfflineKamek
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Re: Netherlands to close down prisons for Lack Of Crime- Good thing we have the war on drugs right? [Re: MotherNaturesSon]
    #10389872 - 05/24/09 07:59 AM (14 years, 8 months ago)

An important difference is the difference is punishment. In The Netherlands 10 years for murder is pretty common. In some cases even less.

Jail time for manslaughter is about half that.


No one gets busted for smoking some weed or growing a SMALL amount for personal use. But cops are pretty strict on commercial grow ops. That's why lots of growers have started growing in Belgium because they are less likely to get caught there.

edit: So I don't really think the war on drugs is the only thing that influences the number of people in jail. There are lots of different things that need to be considered.


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Offlineskatealex2
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Re: Netherlands to close down prisons for Lack Of Crime- Good thing we have the war on drugs right? [Re: Kamek]
    #10391092 - 05/24/09 01:28 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

~Bump~ for people who missed this last night................

I think the war on drugs may be the most important thing about this article......... does anyone know what percentage drug users take up of American jails?


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OfflineD4NK
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Re: Netherlands to close down prisons for Lack Of Crime- Good thing we have the war on drugs right? [Re: Kamek]
    #10391109 - 05/24/09 01:31 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Kamek said:
An important difference is the difference is punishment. In The Netherlands 10 years for murder is pretty common. In some cases even less.





Wow, I didn't know that.  So if you kill someone in the Netherlands, you almost never get a life sentence?

So... you wanna go to the Netherlands with me? :lol:


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Offlinesuburbanned
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Re: Netherlands to close down prisons for Lack Of Crime- Good thing we have the war on drugs right? [Re: skatealex2]
    #10391110 - 05/24/09 01:32 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

"Federal prisons were estimated to hold 179,204 sentenced inmates as of Sept. 30, 2007. " ... "total of 95,446 were incarcerated for drug offenses."

That is about 60% of federal prisons, I'd be willing to bet it is about the same for state prisons.  maybe a bit less


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Invisiblejewunit
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Re: Netherlands to close down prisons for Lack Of Crime- Good thing we have the war on drugs right? [Re: suburbanned]
    #10391123 - 05/24/09 01:36 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I think this is more or a correlation thing.
I understand that many people are in jail on non-violent related offenses, but this article isn't evidence that the Netherlands is closing jails because they don't have as strict drug laws.

What is the violent crime rate in the Netherlands compared to the US?
Can you prove that those differences are a direct result of drug laws? Would the difference be reduced significantly if the US had looser drug laws?

You guys are smart enough to not just post an article and say "Shows how ridiculous the drug war is."
No, it shows how safe Netherlands is.


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Offlinesuburbanned
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Re: Netherlands to close down prisons for Lack Of Crime- Good thing we have the war on drugs right? [Re: jewunit]
    #10391134 - 05/24/09 01:38 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Well... how many murders are there because of illegal drugs in America. Specifically marijuana.  How many murders are there over marijuana in the netherlands?


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Invisiblejewunit
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Re: Netherlands to close down prisons for Lack Of Crime- Good thing we have the war on drugs right? [Re: suburbanned]
    #10391164 - 05/24/09 01:44 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Right that's my point.
My guess is not too many in either country.
I only checked out the first site I found, and I know it's a .gov site that only goes to 98, but according to them in 1998 there were 14,088 homocides. Of them 4.8% were drug related. I'd imagine that percentage is taken up by other drugs (aka more profitable drugs.)
http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/factsht/crime/index.html


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Re: Netherlands to close down prisons for Lack Of Crime- Good thing we have the war on drugs right? [Re: jewunit]
    #10391438 - 05/24/09 02:44 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

even though i don't see any 100% direct causation, it does seem to appear that they have far fewer drug arrests, and do not need as much prison space per capita because of it.


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Offlinelearningtofly
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Re: Netherlands to close down prisons for Lack Of Crime- Good thing we have the war on drugs right? [Re: suburbanned]
    #10391445 - 05/24/09 02:46 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I would also like to know the percentage of violent criminals rather than just the actual numbers.. obviously the U.S. has a much larger population


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OfflineKamek
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Re: Netherlands to close down prisons for Lack Of Crime- Good thing we have the war on drugs right? [Re: learningtofly]
    #10392925 - 05/24/09 08:17 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

Found some numbers for US until 2004 here.

According to some stats I saw while looking at crime rates there are more than 3 times as many murders in the US than in The Netherlands.

Haven't been able to find any good numbers on drug related offenses in The Netherlands but I found some numbers on the number of violent crimes commited.
There were 9065 violent crimes per 100000 citizens in 2007.


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OfflineJadian
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Re: Netherlands to close down prisons for Lack Of Crime- Good thing we have the war on drugs right? [Re: skatealex2]
    #10393018 - 05/24/09 08:42 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I found some great stats about the violent crime rate and other things between the Netherlands and the United States for a debate once, don't feel like doing the legwork myself but it's out there if someone searches hard enough.


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Offlineindigo_shades
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Re: Netherlands to close down prisons for Lack Of Crime- Good thing we have the war on drugs right? [Re: Jadian]
    #10393112 - 05/24/09 09:04 PM (14 years, 8 months ago)

I found that most of our prisons population is for drugs.  Thats fuckin nuts.


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