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OfflineKonnrade
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Binding or Gluing Teflon
    #10390837 - 05/24/09 02:30 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I have a project in mind to take a thin sheet of solid teflon and bind it to a hard surface such as a thin steel plate.

However, I'm betting on the fact that teflon is very difficult to adhere securely with glue. Would a normal untreated teflon sheet respond well enough to typical epoxy? Would I need to get bondable teflon sheets? Would a bondable sheet be harder to keep clean or have a higher friction coefficient or otherwise just have any negative traits?

If I can just get the sheet and the plate, cut to size/shape, and epoxy together... and get a good result, I'm going to do it.


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OfflineChuangTzu Happy Birthday!
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Re: Binding or Gluing Teflon [Re: Konnrade]
    #10391213 - 05/24/09 03:54 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

No fucking way you're getting that to work... : ) 

I would get a fairly thick sheet of teflon, as thick as I could afford (that shit's expensive), and then bolt it to the steel plate.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Binding or Gluing Teflon [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #10391525 - 05/24/09 05:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

> No fucking way you're getting that to work... : ) 

Most likely.  It is very difficult to glue teflon.  You have to know the coefficient of expansion of the material you are trying to bond it to and then select an adhesive that can not only get past the fluorine bonds in the teflon, but can bond to the material you are using and has a COE between the teflon and the material.  Some teflon sheets come treated on one side making them easier to glue.


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Re: Binding or Gluing Teflon [Re: Seuss]
    #10392386 - 05/24/09 08:20 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Talk to a chemist or look it up on a chem website. They do it every day, how do you think they get it on frying pans and the like? Another possibility is heating it until it melts and sticks to the surface. But I believe it degrades at high temps so it may have to be done under an inert atmosphere.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Binding or Gluing Teflon [Re: Stonehenge]
    #10392680 - 05/24/09 09:21 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

> how do you think they get it on frying pans and the like?

They prepare the surface by making it rough, add a primer, add a soft midcoat, add a hard topcoat (that usually contains ceramics to help strengthen it) and then bake the mess under pressure.


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OfflineChuangTzu Happy Birthday!
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Re: Binding or Gluing Teflon [Re: Stonehenge]
    #10393290 - 05/24/09 11:44 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
Another possibility is heating it until it melts and sticks to the surface.




What Seuss said is right. 

If you melted teflon onto a surface it wouldn't hesitate to fall immediately off once it cooled.  Even teflon on coated pans is there very tentatively--contact with any hard object will cause it to scratch right off...


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Binding or Gluing Teflon [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #10394613 - 05/25/09 06:28 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

While we're on the subject of teflon, do you reckon it would be a good idea to teflon-coat helicopter blades? I've been wondering about that for years. Never heard of it being done though. Seems like a simple way to cut down on fuel usage.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Binding or Gluing Teflon [Re: zouden]
    #10394779 - 05/25/09 08:06 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

> do you reckon it would be a good idea to teflon-coat helicopter blades?

The blades that I have worked with had a coating on them similar to Tefzel (ethylene-tetrafluoroethylene fluoropolymer).  It has a lot of the same properties as teflon, but is much stronger and easier to work with.


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Offlinezouden
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Re: Binding or Gluing Teflon [Re: Seuss]
    #10394868 - 05/25/09 08:50 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Well, that answers that question :grin:


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Binding or Gluing Teflon [Re: zouden]
    #10394876 - 05/25/09 08:53 AM (12 years, 8 months ago)

I've also seen liquid coatings (like car wax) that contain teflon.  I never tested them, so I don't know if they are effective or not.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Binding or Gluing Teflon [Re: Seuss]
    #10395703 - 05/25/09 01:50 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Oh golly, seuss looked it up on google. It proves what I said.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineChuangTzu Happy Birthday!
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Re: Binding or Gluing Teflon [Re: Stonehenge]
    #10395981 - 05/25/09 03:08 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

What did you say and what proves it?


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Binding or Gluing Teflon [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #10396435 - 05/25/09 04:51 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

"What did you say and what proves it?"

People are so lazy. I said:

"Talk to a chemist or look it up on a chem website. They do it every day, how do you think they get it on frying pans and the like? Another possibility is heating it until it melts and sticks to the surface."

And seuss looked it up and gave the details including the baking process which I also mentioned.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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OfflineAnnomM
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Re: Binding or Gluing Teflon [Re: Seuss]
    #10396496 - 05/25/09 05:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Teflon (or Tefzel) coatings on helicopter blades to reduce drag?
I guess helicopter blades have very low friction/profile drag and large induced drag. Induced drag can't be reduced by a coating since it's basically lift in the wrong direction. Even if Tefzel could reduce friction/profile drag on the blades, I'm not sure it would be worth it.

Protection against ice formation may be a better reason for the Tefzel.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Binding or Gluing Teflon [Re: Annom]
    #10396684 - 05/25/09 05:31 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

> Teflon (or Tefzel) coatings on helicopter blades to reduce drag?

I don't know why the coating was there, only that it was.  (I also don't know that it was Tefzel, but that it was it reminded me.)  Given that the blades were composites, the coating may have been to produce a smooth surface and reduce boundary layer separation.


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Re: Binding or Gluing Teflon [Re: Seuss]
    #10397210 - 05/25/09 07:05 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> how do you think they get it on frying pans and the like?

They prepare the surface by making it rough, add a primer, add a soft midcoat, add a hard topcoat (that usually contains ceramics to help strengthen it) and then bake the mess under pressure.






yeah, I did some research in fluorine chemistry a while ago.  The shit they had to go through to make teflon commercially viable as a coating was nontrivial.  Its certainly not an easy process.  Fluroine chemistry is a pain in the ass in a number of ways.

I'd imagine the original poster would want to try and find some sheet that has teflon bound to some other material so that you can adhere the other material to your surface and expose the teflon.


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OfflineChuangTzu Happy Birthday!
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Re: Binding or Gluing Teflon [Re: Stonehenge]
    #10397450 - 05/25/09 07:43 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
"What did you say and what proves it?"

People are so lazy.




I call you lazy for contributing nothing but "go ask someone else".

Quote:


And seuss looked it up and gave the details including the baking process which I also mentioned.




You didn't mention a baking process.  You said to melt it onto something and it will stick.  It won't.


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Binding or Gluing Teflon [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #10397620 - 05/25/09 08:10 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Chuang, you asked me what I said when it was right there in front of you. Now you say:

"You didn't mention a baking process"

I mentioned heating which is the same thing. No more replies for you.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: Binding or Gluing Teflon [Re: Konnrade]
    #10397960 - 05/25/09 09:02 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:
I have a project in mind to take a thin sheet of solid teflon and bind it to a hard surface such as a thin steel plate.

However, I'm betting on the fact that teflon is very difficult to adhere securely with glue. Would a normal untreated teflon sheet respond well enough to typical epoxy? Would I need to get bondable teflon sheets? Would a bondable sheet be harder to keep clean or have a higher friction coefficient or otherwise just have any negative traits?

If I can just get the sheet and the plate, cut to size/shape, and epoxy together... and get a good result, I'm going to do it.



just use the no stick coating used cookware
that's the only way to get teflon to stick to any thing


--------------------
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  than over ninety-nine naturally evolved angels.


Edited by arainbow (05/25/09 09:03 PM)


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Binding or Gluing Teflon [Re: Konnrade]
    #10398711 - 05/25/09 11:23 PM (12 years, 8 months ago)

Hah, alright, I had a feeling I'd never be able to glue the stuff down.

I suppose if I want a flat surface coated with a layer of teflon I can just wrap the edges of the sheet around the edges of the surface and affix it mechanically.


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