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InvisibleTODAY
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Silversoul]
    #10085139 - 04/01/09 02:38 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Teleological Existential Agnostic:  I believe there is an all-loving, omniscient force that permeates the entire universe, except certain parts of New Jersey.




that's pretty funny.  i'm all about agnosticism but i don't believe there is a cognisant force that oversees or least of all orchestrates the chaos that is this universe.


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ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.

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Invisiblevirus1824
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: TODAY]
    #10114715 - 04/06/09 04:13 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

im all in for the flying spaghetti monster!


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A weekend wasted is never a wasted weekend

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: virus1824]
    #10121207 - 04/07/09 02:32 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

virus1824 said:
im all in for the flying spaghetti monster!




pffft... thats the most falsifiable of all gods.

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Invisiblevirus1824
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: DieCommie]
    #10121220 - 04/07/09 02:41 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

pffft... thats the most falsifiable of all gods.




There all bullshit. none beats the bullshit content of the other one and visa versa.

except for the spaghetti monster! i see spaghetti everyday which is all the proof i need. its damn real i tell ya! its out there!


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A weekend wasted is never a wasted weekend

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Offlineggoth
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Beat Bop Solo]
    #10205416 - 04/21/09 03:44 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

I don`t like to follow one path it`s better to take the best off all religion`s. But if you do that you can`t be 100% Buddhist and it`s stupid to pick ideas that preclude each other. I voted for Atheism, Buddhism, and Neo-Paganism. I know its strange but I find a "sober" view on the other ones, when i think of them as a Atheist. Atheism for me is something different form "not believing in anything". I don`t think that i can stick in one domain. "Only the death fish flow with the midstream" - it`s out of context but Christians like to use that dictum.

I don`t wanted to offend anybody.

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OfflineAbortionVictim
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: Beat Bop Solo]
    #10205441 - 04/21/09 04:08 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Hey you forgot Jedi. Its a recognized religion in england... I think:grin:

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OfflineAbortionVictim
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: AbortionVictim]
    #10205447 - 04/21/09 04:12 AM (14 years, 10 months ago)

Check that. Jedi is recognized as a religion in many countries.  I just ranked fourth highest in England is all.

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Offlinedoodoomaster
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: AbortionVictim]
    #10359432 - 05/18/09 04:10 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

anyone even slightly interested in this subject should read the book "I don't have enough faith to be an atheist" by frank turek


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For all you passive aggressive types.  Fuck you, kind of.

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OfflineGhengisKhan
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: AdoreChampignons]
    #10363437 - 05/19/09 09:01 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Can I pick atheist three times?


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"When any answer is possible all answers are meaningless" --Isaac Asimov

"Pour me a drink so I can refuse to toast" --Lorie Moore

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Offlinecurtlow
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: DieCommie]
    #10363646 - 05/19/09 10:03 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Atheism is a lack of faith, religion, and god. (we don't give a shit)

faith is hope and desire mistaken for knowledge.

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Offlinedoodoomaster
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: curtlow]
    #10364957 - 05/19/09 03:48 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Does anyone know where the universe came from?


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For all you passive aggressive types.  Fuck you, kind of.

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OfflineGhengisKhan
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: curtlow]
    #10366829 - 05/19/09 09:27 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

curtlow said:
Atheism is a lack of faith, religion, and god. (we don't give a shit)

faith is hope and desire mistaken for knowledge.




Atheism is not about not giving a shit. And it is not an outright denial of the existence of God either. It is simply the logical default. I'm not saying there is no God, I'm just saying it has the same likelihood as any other claim that is unfalsifiable and is not supported by evidence, such as that the world was created an instant ago complete with memories, history, and organization. In fact, atheism only exists to counter those who do believe in God. If nobody was religious, we would all be atheists, but we wouldn't need a word for it, just like we don't have a word for people who don't believe that lobsters are the reincarnation of Ghandi.


--------------------
"When any answer is possible all answers are meaningless" --Isaac Asimov

"Pour me a drink so I can refuse to toast" --Lorie Moore

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Offlinedoodoomaster
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: GhengisKhan]
    #10367535 - 05/20/09 12:13 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

GhengisKhan said:
Quote:

curtlow said:
Atheism is a lack of faith, religion, and god. (we don't give a shit)

faith is hope and desire mistaken for knowledge.




Atheism is not about not giving a shit. And it is not an outright denial of the existence of God either. It is simply the logical default. I'm not saying there is no God, I'm just saying it has the same likelihood as any other claim that is unfalsifiable and is not supported by evidence, such as that the world was created an instant ago complete with memories, history, and organization. In fact, atheism only exists to counter those who do believe in God. If nobody was religious, we would all be atheists, but we wouldn't need a word for it, just like we don't have a word for people who don't believe that lobsters are the reincarnation of Ghandi.






That has to be the most unbiased explanation of atheism I have ever seen. Many atheist I meet are very closed minded to the thought of a creator and so one sided I wonder if they have ever read for themselves or just what some guy in the new age bar down the street said.

There is much evidence that Jesus was here and that he rose from the grave.


--------------------
For all you passive aggressive types.  Fuck you, kind of.

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InvisibleRupturedHernia
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: doodoomaster]
    #10374356 - 05/21/09 04:37 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

doodoomaster said:


There is much evidence that Jesus was here and that he rose from the grave.




Where?


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InvisibleSociety
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: RupturedHernia]
    #10374920 - 05/21/09 07:59 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I worship pizza.

:persistence:  <---- clock pizza on Shroomery cutting board that's too small


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Delicious Pizza

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Offlinedoodoomaster
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: RupturedHernia]
    #10377187 - 05/21/09 03:55 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RupturedHernia said:
Quote:

doodoomaster said:


There is much evidence that Jesus was here and that he rose from the grave.




Where?




This man has a pretty good write up about how most believers in Jesus feel.

It's fairly biased but makes points that are historically truthful.

from this page:http://www.wcg.org/lit/disc/11evidence.htm

Christians, Jews, and atheists agree that Jesus was crucified and buried. The crucial belief for Christianity is that he was also resurrected — as evidence that he is the Son of God, the teacher of truth, the door and the way of salvation, the firstfruits of the resurrection. This article presents the evidence for his resurrection.

First, most historians agree that the early disciples believed that Jesus had risen from the dead. Although at Jesus' death they were dejected and fearful, they were soon dramatically different: They risked their lives repeatedly to preach about Jesus. Even Christians in the second and third centuries (as well as many today) put their lives on the line to preach about Jesus. Of course, erroneous ideas abound, and people sometimes give their lives for erroneous ideas — but only if they think they are true. People do not put their lives on the line for things they don't believe. The disciples never wavered in their belief in Jesus' resurrection. None of them ever changed their story under the pain of persecution. Even agnostic historians will admit that the disciples believed that Jesus had been resurrected.

Now we can consider how dozens of disciples could come to such a conviction. Perhaps the first possibility we could consider is that Jesus didn't really die. Perhaps it wasn't really him on the cross. Maybe Judas led the soldiers to the wrong man, or a substitution was somehow made at the last minute (as Muslims believe). Is it possible that the disciples were in such a state of shock that they did not recognize the substitute on the cross, nor when they took him down to anoint and wrap his body for burial? Was it then a coincidence that the tomb somehow became empty, and his disciples thought he had reappeared? No, all this stretches the imagination so much that this is not seriously considered.

Well, then, perhaps Jesus did not die on the cross — he just went into a coma, and then later revived. Is this a plausible historical possibility? Would Roman soldiers botch a crucifixion and take down a body without noticing that the person was still alive? Would this severely injured person then be able to revive, unwrap his own grave clothes, roll away his own tombstone, and convince his disciples that he had good health? Then after 40 days he would never be seen again? No, this borders on the preposterous.

Perhaps the disciples helped Jesus revive. They rolled away the stone, unwrapped the clothes, bandaged the wounds, and told a story about getting their leader back alive out of the grave — a story that turned quickly into a tall tale about resurrection and miraculous appearances, a story that the disciples never tried to set straight. Not only is this historically implausible, it turns the disciples into frauds and deceivers — and yet, as we mentioned above, people do not give their lives for something they know is false. This does not provide a believable explanation for the rise of Christianity, rooted in the early first century in the conviction that Jesus had risen from the dead — and this faith spread first in Jerusalem, where the facts could be investigated most easily!

It is not historically likely that Jesus could have survived the crucifixion. Well then, could the disciples have made up the resurrection? Did they steal the body, hide it somewhere, invent the story of a guard, and then preach a resurrection with conviction? This does not make sense, either. These fishermen did not make up the biggest lie in history, going against all the facts of life and death as they knew it, going against all religious beliefs of the day, going against Jewish and Roman authorities, risking their lives to tell the story they made up, without any of them ever betraying the conspiracy. No, these folks were not conniving liars. Their words and deeds do not suggest any such deception. Their behavior matched their message.

As a side point, we might also observe that the evidence of the empty tomb is indirect. (If it wasn't empty, the Jewish leaders could have stopped the whole problem by producing the body.) And yet according to the Gospel stories, the empty tomb did not convince all the disciples. They were convinced only when Jesus appeared, and it is on the basis of the appearances that they preached the resurrection. If they had gone to the trouble of stealing the body, surely they would have used the empty tomb as part of their evidence. The fact that they didn't, tells us that they had what they thought was much better evidence: eyewitnesses of a living Jesus.

As another indirect evidence of the authenticity of their faith, we can observe that the Gospels report that women were the first eyewitnesses of the empty tomb and the risen Christ — and the testimony of women was not accepted in that culture. If the disciples were trying to make up a story, they would have invented witnesses who had more authority. It is not likely that these fishermen would have been so subtle in creating evidence, and yet be so bold in preaching. And what about the fact that the Gospel stories vary somewhat? If this had been an enormous conspiracy, wouldn't they ensure that the story was told in exactly the same way by everyone? The most believable explanation again is that the disciples genuinely believed Jesus to be resurrected, and each one told it the way he or she remembered it.

Now let's consider another possibility: graverobbers (hoping for riches in the rich man's tomb) got the guards to drink so much wine that they fell asleep; then the graverobbers took the body and dumped it in the desert. The guards, wanting to cover up their failure and knowing the fears of the religious leaders, made up the story of the angels and the resurrection, and were bribed to blame the disciples. Then the disciples had hallucinations of a risen Jesus.

However, did all the disciples have the same hallucination, several times, against their expectations, against their religious beliefs? Did the hallucination eat and drink, speak, and then suddenly cease 40 days later? This is not the way hallucinations work. The evidence does not match this hypothesis, either.

Let's consider one more idea, that the idea of resurrection was just a religious allegory (sometimes described as a "myth," meaning religious ideas expressed in allegorical stories), and Christianity made a big mistake in taking it literally for almost 2,000 years. There are several problems with this idea. First, the Gospels are not written in a mythological style. And it is clear that the resurrection was understood in a literal way even in the first century, when eyewitnesses of Jesus were still available to either support or refute the story. There was no time for legends to develop. The biblical writers give us history: This is what I saw. This is what it meant. They denounce the idea of myth. They are presenting what they saw.

The disciples were not deceived, nor were they deceivers. They just tell us what they believed, and it is clear that they believed that Jesus died and was buried and was resurrected. And it is clear that the reason they believed this is because they saw it with their own eyes.

    That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched — this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. (1 John 1:1-3)

The disciples clearly believed that Jesus rose from the dead. Why did they believe this? The most plausible explanation is that Jesus actually rose from the dead. All other theories are far-fetched and historically unlikely.

When we also take into consideration the need for God to intervene in humanity to save us, and the Old Testament predictions of a suffering servant who would give his life for his people, the explanation that makes the most sense is that the disciples believed that Jesus was resurrected because Jesus appeared to them and told them he was resurrected. That is why they had such a transformation in their beliefs, and why they preached with such conviction. As Luke puts it, by looking at the evidence we "may know the certainty of the things we have been taught" (Luke 1:4).

Michael Morrison


--------------------
For all you passive aggressive types.  Fuck you, kind of.

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OfflineMycoUnderground
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Re: What Religious Beliefs Do You Follow? [Re: doodoomaster]
    #10377861 - 05/21/09 05:39 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Actually there are 2 basic kinds of atheism: strong and weak.  Strong atheists do deny the existence of any god or deity, and weak atheists have been made to include any other form of belief that doesn't involve  deities.

Anyway, concerning my position on the belief of God, I just don't know.  Maybe people will know if God exists one day, but I'm not convinced we know enough now to say so with any certainty, and that's all I can really say for sure about that. But, this hardly contstitutes the depth needed to be deemed a religious belief. 

So, as far my own religious beliefs, there are no "isms" that can accurately describe exactly what I think, maybe aside from "MycoUndergroundism."  I'm the only one that believes what I do.  Noone else was born with my genetics and grew up with the exact experiences have lived, so nobody can believe exactly what I do.  I could go on and on about what I think is truth, and its likely some people would agree with much of it, but despite common "isms" we may share, upon examining the details differences can be spotted between any two people.  There just aren't enough "isms" out there to classify everything that each and every person thinks.

On a bit of a side note; I think everyone is like this in their own way, and I think it is especially interesting to think about how it applies to people involved with organized religion and how they might respond to this.

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