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Anonymous #1

Busted at last
    #10370403 - 05/20/09 03:39 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

Well I finally got fucked.  Friend calls and asks to borrow a lighter to smoke a bowl outside.  I grab a lighter and my grinder and head downstairs.  Like fucking idiots, we decide to smoke there in broad daylight in the little gangway between my house and my neighbors, instead of in my basement like we had done countless times prior.  Suddenly I hear radio chatter, I mutter, "Shit, cop" and start walking away in the other direction.  The cop then pops his head around the corner and sees my friend with a bowl in his hand, charges at him, and puts him in handcuffs.  He then walks toward me, shouting, "You guys were smoking WEED!"  I tell him that I do not consent to any search of my person, he tells me to shut the fuck up and put my hands on the wall.  He then thoroughly searches my pockets, finds the grinder with less than .25 of a gram in it, arrests us both (In front of my parents :facepalm: ), and we get to hang out in a holding cell for nine fucking hour, and I am charged with possession of less than 2.5 gs of cannabis, in addition to a fucking paraphernalia charge for the grinder, which is actually the more serious charge.

Now I've been reading about Terry searches and the like, and when probable cause allows a full search, etc.

Was my being in the approximate vicinity (ten feet away) of a person holding a pipe probable cause to search through my pockets?

I ask this because I'm getting ready to go to college in Italy in the fall, and this could really fuck it up.
I'm 19, this happened in Illinois, never been arrested or even had a ticket before.

Now it was utterly retarded for us to be smoking there, and I will have a good lawyer and I probably wont get worse than a fine, but this would just be such a fuckload easier if I could get the evidence suppressed.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Busted at last [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #10371440 - 05/20/09 06:19 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

You are pretty much screwed trying to get out of the search.  Cop is going to say he smelled devil weed smoke, followed the scent, came around the corner, saw the two of you toking away and proceed to arrest the both of you.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Re: Busted at last [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #10371730 - 05/20/09 07:09 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

You could file a motion to suppress on the grounds that your friend was smoking and you weren't, and they had no reason to search you.

I'd be very surprised if they granted it though.

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Offlinedoodoomaster
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Re: Busted at last [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #10371890 - 05/20/09 07:38 PM (15 years, 2 days ago)

find out what the probable cause to search you and why he was there in the first place.

Most of all talk to your lawyer.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Busted at last [Re: doodoomaster]
    #10378221 - 05/21/09 06:42 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

> Most of all talk to your lawyer.

Yep.

However, chances are the cop is going to lie and claim that he saw both of you smoking.  Your word against his.  Who are the courts going to believe, a well respected officer of the peace that risks his life daily to protect us, or some snot nosed kid that was smoking devil weed?  (This is not how I see you, but how the courts will.)


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InvisibleBlimeyGrimey
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Re: Busted at last [Re: Seuss]
    #10378555 - 05/21/09 08:36 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

Get a copy of the police report and check it for any contradictions they may have made. This has helped me in the past. Sometime cops write up their reports in a shitty manner and make statements that are obviously made up or show his lack of competence. This will help a motion to suppress.

Judges are more fair than most people think. All the judges I've dealt with didn't have that "you're obviously a criminal so fuck you" attitude. In fact, a judge in a town/city where cops are known to fuck-up and pull shady shit are more likely to throw it out. The old town I used to live in had a judge that hated the county police because they were known for pulling stupid shit on people just to get an arrest.

It all depends though, there ARE dickhead judges out there.

Quote:

Seuss said:
Cop is going to say he smelled devil weed smoke, followed the scent, came around the corner, saw the two of you toking away and proceed to arrest the both of you.




I was in a public park today and I kept smelling weed but never saw anyone smoking. Just because I smelled it doesn't mean that any of the people I could see were smoking. In fact it may not have even been weed. There's plenty of plants that have a similar smell during the spring.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Busted at last [Re: BlimeyGrimey]
    #10379973 - 05/22/09 03:04 AM (15 years, 21 hours ago)

OP, you're fucked.

Chances are (or that the cop will say) that he heard you guys talking about smoking weed or passing it or lighter flicking or coughing, ect., etc..

The "smelled weed" line won't work and he probably won't use it since he already had the source of the smell when he got your friend's pipe.  However, seeing that he found weed he had plenty of justification to do a terry search.

There's all kinds of other things he can claim to justify the search also.  Like search incident to arrest, conspiracy to possess weed, etc., etc..


Just pay your fine and consider it a cheap lesson in how not to fuck yourself over next time.  If you're really worried then ask for a withheld judgment, but it's a shame to waste that on something so minor.


-FF

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OfflineMycofaded
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Re: Busted at last [Re: fastfred]
    #10384026 - 05/22/09 09:32 PM (15 years, 3 hours ago)

I'm sorry this happened. You are essentially "dead to rights," but nothing severe is going to happen to you. You may get fined.

Move to a MMJ state when you get out of college. They're better.

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Re: Busted at last [Re: Mycofaded]
    #10389698 - 05/24/09 06:17 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Talk to a lawyer, he can contest the search!

A Terry search is for WEAPONS ONLY! not for contraband.

Terry v State of Ohio (392 U.S. 1 (1968) U.S. Supreme Court
Officer who had reasonable cause to believe that defendants were contemplating crime and were armed, and thus cause to search them for weapons, did not exceed reasonable scope of search in patting down their outer clothing. The officer did not place his hands in pockets or under outer surface of garments until he had felt weapons, and then merely reaching for and removing guns.

United States v Yamba (506 F. 3d 251 (2007) U.S. Court of Appeals Third Circuit
The proper question under the plain feel doctrine is not the immediacy and certainty with which an officer knows an object to be contraband or the amount of manipulation required to acquire that knowledge, but rather what the officer believes the object is by the time he concludes that it is not a weapon.
A Terry search cannot purposely be used to discover contraband, but it is permissible that contraband be confiscated if spontaneously discovered during a properly executed Terry search.

United States v Sakyi (160 F. 3d 164 (1998) Fourth Circuit
In connection with a lawful traffic stop of an automobile, when the officer has a reasonable suspicion that illegal drugs are in the vehicle, the officer may, in the absence of factors allaying his safety concerns, order the occupants out of the vehicle and pat them down briefly for weapons to ensure the officer’s safety and the safety of others.


Now there are a lot of questions about your story that you would need to go over with a lawyer. For example, you said you were walking away when the cop put his head around the corner. You could have been investigating the smell and asking the person to leave, or walking away from some one doing something you did not agree with. Depending on your actions and when the cop saw you, a good lawyer may be able to argue all kinds of things. If the officer did not SEE you with the contraband there is no way for him to know. These are things you would have to discuss with your lawyer and things he can use to suppress the search.

A lot of people do not seem to know this but a Terry search is for weapons only, if it did not feel like a weapon then they can not reach into your pocket and remove it! If it was a search incident to arrest then they can take everything out of your pockets. The real question boils down to, did he actually have enough probable cause to arrest you? If not then they search was not legal.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Busted at last [Re: Cyber]
    #10389799 - 05/24/09 07:26 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

> A Terry search is for WEAPONS ONLY! not for contraband.

Which would be great if this were a terry search.  The cop is going to say the search was done upon arrest.  The arrest way made after witnessing the defendant smoking a marijuana cigarette with his friend.  From the courts perspective, this is about as cut and dry as it gets.  Cops smells what he believes to be marijuana smoke based upon years of experience and training.  Investigating the smell, cops sees two people smoking what appears to be a marijuana cigarette based upon years of experience and training.  Cop now has probable cause to make an arrest.  Upon arrest cops searches the two prisoners and finds drug paraphernalia and marijuana.

It doesn't matter what happened.  The cop will present the story such that nothing he did was wrong.  It will be the word of a person caught red handed with a controlled substance versus a highly trained and respected police officer.  This is a no brainer; the courts will side with the cop (which is why the cops get away with so much).  It may not be right, but that is how it is.


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Busted at last [Re: Seuss]
    #10389830 - 05/24/09 07:40 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Even without smelling it, he knew.
Haven't we all walked up on a group of people getting high, and we knew what was going on? I know I have.


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OfflineCyber
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Re: Busted at last [Re: Seuss]
    #10389900 - 05/24/09 08:12 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Seuss,

I would tend to agree but this is where a good lawyer comes in and saves the day. Provided you say nothing to the cop a lawyer can argue a lot of things. Your rendition of what the cop saw and did differs from the suspects description. He heard the cops radio before seeing the cop and started to leave.

From the suspects description of the incident the cop had probable cause on his friend, seeing the pipe in his hand and smelling the weed, and only resalable suspicion that he was involved. Depending on the other facts of the case, and what the cop saw as well as what was put in the report, it could be used by a good defense attorney to argue the search. If the search is tossed out then the case will be tossed out. I am not saying it is a slam dunk case but there is an opening for a good attorney to work with here.

It should also be noted that cops stand to loose a lot if they are caught lying. The courts do not always side with the cops and there are a few drug cases around me where cops were caught lying on the stand and ALL of the previous cases are now open for appeal. The cops also lost their jobs over it.

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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Busted at last [Re: Cyber]
    #10390498 - 05/24/09 11:10 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

> I would tend to agree but this is where a good lawyer comes in and saves the day.

This is where a GOOD lawyer will tell you to take whatever deal you can get and not waste money paying for him to loose your case.

The cop found contraban.  He is going to say whatever makes it stick.  Which I imagine is that he's going to say he saw them both smoking.  Nothing is ever going to beat that.

The defendants story doesn't even sound credible if you believe them.  "Well I was high as a kite and I thought I heard something and I think I was already walking away when he saw me..."  Nobody is going to believe that or give it any weight.

It doesn't really even matter if they believe you.  The cop is going to say that he watched the whole thing and the suspects didn't realize it until he came up to make the arrests.  Case closed.

Don't waste anything on a lawyer.  There is no usable point that I can see and nothing that's going to get you around the facts of the case.  Unless the cop really fucks up when writing the report they've got you dead to rights.


-FF

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Busted at last [Re: fastfred]
    #10392347 - 05/24/09 06:14 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

This could go either way. If the cop lies his ass off, it would be bad for the op. But cops do not always do that. There may have been witnesses and lying cops can get into trouble. A terry search is for weapons but if they find drugs they can charge you for them. Get a lawyer and have him look into it. Advice here from people who don't know the whole story is not going to help you that much.

There is a chance to beat this. They may also agree to deferred prosecution in which you plead no contest, fulfill community service, pay a fine or some such bs and end up with no record. A good lawyer can help you with that.


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Anonymous #1

Re: Busted at last [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #10396187 - 05/25/09 02:03 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Yeah I figured I was fucked about the search, turns out the pig was actually there to arrest my neighbor for some domestic violence shit, but couldn't resist fucking with two teenagers when he saw us.

In my city, possession of less than 2.5 grams isn't even a misdemeanor I don't think, its a "city ordinance violation", so I guess it's not even really a crime?

From what I've read, it's pretty common for the prosecutor to drop a paraph charge in exchange for copping to the possession, right?  I'm pretty sure my lawyer will be able to make the case that an honor roll student doesn't deserve to have his college education fucked up for a goddam city ordinance ticket.

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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Busted at last [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #10396483 - 05/25/09 03:00 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

If it is just an ordinance violation it won't mess up your college chances but you might be able to beat it or plead out of even that. Talk to a lawyer and then you can decide something. Right now you are still guessing and making assumptions.


--------------------
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: Busted at last [Re: Seuss]
    #10400273 - 05/26/09 03:22 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Cyber said:

It should also be noted that cops stand to loose a lot if they are caught lying. The courts do not always side with the cops and there are a few drug cases around me where cops were caught lying on the stand and ALL of the previous cases are now open for appeal. The cops also lost their jobs over it.





If they are caught lieing and anybody cares.  In this case there is little chance of them being caught.  The threat is enough.  You will know before going to trial what the cop is going to say and will have to make the choice to face a hefty sentence for a looser case on the off chance you can get him to admit he's lieing or pull something out of yoru ass.
Quote:

Seuss said:
> A Terry search is for WEAPONS ONLY! not for contraband.

Which would be great if this were a terry search.  The cop is going to say the search was done upon arrest.  The arrest way made after witnessing the defendant smoking a marijuana cigarette with his friend.  From the courts perspective, this is about as cut and dry as it gets.  Cops smells what he believes to be marijuana smoke based upon years of experience and training.  Investigating the smell, cops sees two people smoking what appears to be a marijuana cigarette based upon years of experience and training.  Cop now has probable cause to make an arrest.  Upon arrest cops searches the two prisoners and finds drug paraphernalia and marijuana.

It doesn't matter what happened.  The cop will present the story such that nothing he did was wrong.  It will be the word of a person caught red handed with a controlled substance versus a highly trained and respected police officer.  This is a no brainer; the courts will side with the cop (which is why the cops get away with so much).  It may not be right, but that is how it is.






Exactly.  This is the most important thing for people to learn.  What happened doesn't matter, what can be proven does.  I agree with seuss, this is one of those cases that demonstrates how the cops get away with doing whatever they want.  If yoru innocent nothing comes of it and nobody ever finds out.  If your guilty the cop just lies and overstates the evidence to justify his search based upon the findings.  Since the cop doesn't have to put forth any record ahead of the search he doesn't loose, ever, unless people file complaints and someone cares.


And even if it were a terry, that doesn't mean he can't pull shit out of your pocket even if he admits he knew it wasn't a weapon.  If he knew it was marijuana from the frisk then he can pull it out.  From the smell and feel I would think this would be justified.  I would imagine probable cause would be sufficient to expand a terry search to a full search of a pocket, but I forget.  I think the supreme court dealt with this a bit ago, in any case, they definitly can expand the search even if the cop admits he knew there was no weapon (which he probably won't if he can get away with it).

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Offlineallreadyused
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Re: Busted at last [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #10449395 - 06/03/09 06:46 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Anonymous said:
Well I finally got fucked.
Like fucking idiots, we decide to smoke there in broad daylight in the little gangway between my house and my neighbors, instead of in my basement like we had done countless times prior. 





I think this covers my reaction. 
In the future if you smoke outside in public never use a pipe or have a pipe on you, always a joint and never have more on you than you can swallow before the cop tackles you; hence the joint.
Doubtful you'll get any evidence suppressed because your neighbors probably called the cops on you when they got pissed at you for smoking in front of them.  Get a lawyer (always good advice) most likely he or she will be able to plea it down to practically nothing and you'll get off on some king of probation and ARD.


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Offlinenumonkei
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Re: Busted at last [Re: Seuss]
    #10452885 - 06/04/09 10:15 AM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Most of all talk to your lawyer.

Yep.

However, chances are the cop is going to lie and claim that he saw both of you smoking.  Your word against his.  Who are the courts going to believe, a well respected officer of the peace that risks his life daily to protect us, or some snot nosed kid that was smoking devil weed?  (This is not how I see you, but how the courts will.)




Now, I wonder sometimes. Why it is health care is an issue for 'progressives' moreso than 'conservatives', (or whatever an independent thinker could call the television clowns and religious party members)?

If we chill on health care, less surviving stuffy judges in courts. I implore someone to find me a college campus where less than 75-80% students agree with drug prohibition versus treatment.

Sad shit, letting the oldies get the young by the balls. Life expectancy was what about fifteen hundred years ago? Or during the French Revolution? Sub-Saharan Africa?

:rolleyes:



~Monk

EDIT: This post written by 98-year old suicidal resident of a Los Angeles clinic made out of bazooka joe wrappers.

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Anonymous #1

Re: Busted at last [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #10456836 - 06/04/09 09:25 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Thx for all the comments and advice.

Ended up not being a big deal at all...I was nervous as fuck in the courtroom but I just got four "Drug School" classes as they call it, and all charges will be dropped.

Maybe I'll make some heady connects eh?

I have certainly learned my lesson about being retarded and smoking, its just that after smoking for so long it becomes a normal kind of thing and I tend to forget that it's still highly illegal...this will definetely put the paranoia back into my head for good.

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