|
 Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
 Klavey
Soon to be shroomer
Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 143
Loc: Northern California
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
|
 Panaeolus Subbalteatus? 
#10356266 - 05/17/09 11:48 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Important additional information: Both specimens are immature. I only suspect specimen 1 of being Panaeolus Subbalteatus.The images of the mushrooms before they are picked were taken a full day before the images of them after being picked, you may notice a little maturing. The print of specimen 1 is a far darker black than it appears in the image.
Habitat:
Both in Sierra Nevada foothills, northern California.
Both on moist grass growing out of horse manure and soil.
Gills:
Refer to images for visuals.
Physical:
Specimen 1: Free
Specimen 2: Adnexed
Stem:
Refer to images for visual description
Physical:
Specimen 1+2: Smooth, moist, specimen 1 being slightly coarser/grippier than 2.
Cap:
Refer to images for visual description:
Specimen 1: 1 cm, smooth dry.
Specimen 2: 1 cm, dry, a little more coarse than specimen 1, but still smooth.
Spore print color:
Specimen 1: Jet black
Specimen 2: A little brown, almost no print.
Bruising:
None
Specimen 1 day before being picked:
 
Specimen 1 a full day after wild images (ignore the hair-like fibers, they are not part of the mushroom):
    
Specimen 2 a full day before being picked:
Specimen 2 a full day after in the wild images (spore print to faint to photograph):
  
--------------------
For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love
|
 CureCat
Strangest
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
|
Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: Klavey]
#10356469 - 05/18/09 12:32 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
The look like Panaeolina foenisecii to me. The spore print is too light for me to certainly tell what colour it is. I let the mushrooms print longer when I am unsure.
*compliments of Gumby
--------------------
|
Acaterpillar
A little mad...
Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 18,693
Loc: Down the rabbit hole
Last seen: 6 months, 11 days
|
Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: CureCat]
#10356699 - 05/18/09 02:06 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Put a sharpie mark next to the spore print for comparison, that will help to determine the color.
Also older specimens will often not have anymore spores to drop, but they may leave a brown stain on the paper. Those aren't spores.
--------------------
Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...
At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
|
Klavey
Soon to be shroomer
Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 143
Loc: Northern California
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
|
|
Im gonna wait another day for them to mature a little, but not to much for them to not be able to print, then I'll take a better spore print. Any Idea on the second species?
--------------------
For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love
|
CureCat
Strangest
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
|
Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: Klavey]
#10359752 - 05/18/09 04:57 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
They are both either Panaeolus or Panaeolina.
--------------------
|
Klavey
Soon to be shroomer
Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 143
Loc: Northern California
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
|
Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: CureCat]
#10359759 - 05/18/09 04:58 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
The stem doesn't seem beefy enough to be subbalteatus. what do you think?
--------------------
For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love
|
CureCat
Strangest
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
|
Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: Klavey]
#10359775 - 05/18/09 05:01 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
I've seen some very gracile Panaeolus, but both collections look like Panaeolina foenisecii to me.
--------------------
|
Acaterpillar
A little mad...
Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 18,693
Loc: Down the rabbit hole
Last seen: 6 months, 11 days
|
Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: Klavey]
#10359799 - 05/18/09 05:04 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
If the spore print was brownish black, and not jet black than it is Panaeolina Foenisecii like CureCat said.
If it is jet black than it is some kind of Panaeolus, possibly cinctulus (subbalteus). The only way to truly know if your panaeolus mushrooms are active is to observe blueing in the base of the stems (maybe pick a few instead of cutting to observe the mycelium on the stem bottom) or dive right in with a bioassay. 
--------------------
Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...
At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
|
Klavey
Soon to be shroomer
Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 143
Loc: Northern California
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
|
Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: CureCat]
#10359810 - 05/18/09 05:06 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
CureCat said:
I've seen some very gracile Panaeolus, but both collections look like Panaeolina foenisecii to me.
That's strange, because to me it seems that the two specimens differ greatly in many aspects. What makes you conclude that they could be the same species even though they look very different?
--------------------
For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love
|
Acaterpillar
A little mad...
Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 18,693
Loc: Down the rabbit hole
Last seen: 6 months, 11 days
|
Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: Klavey]
#10360060 - 05/18/09 05:49 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
In my opinion they could be easily pan subbs. I've yet to find any pan foe's, but I have found many pan subbs that look just like that.
Honestly though, the two species are supposed to be practically identical though, so it's all mostly speculation.
--------------------
Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...
At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
|
Klavey
Soon to be shroomer
Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 143
Loc: Northern California
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
|
|
If the prints are jet black that im going to take I may consider eating them.
--------------------
For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love
|
Acaterpillar
A little mad...
Registered: 06/09/07
Posts: 18,693
Loc: Down the rabbit hole
Last seen: 6 months, 11 days
|
Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: Klavey]
#10360185 - 05/18/09 06:03 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Keep a sample for the hospital just in case. You may have some nasty shits, and vomit, and not even trip.
--------------------
Aaa...E I O Uuu...A E I O Uuu..A E I O uh Uuu..
*Cough* *Cough*
Ooo...U E I O Aaa...U E I Aaa..A E I O Uuuuu...
At first sight, The Perfection of Wisdom is bewildering, full of paradox and apparent irrationality.
|
golden1
Registered: 06/18/08
Posts: 1,707
Loc: north korea
|
|
either way if they are subb or foe I dont think the hospital will be involved
|
CureCat
Strangest
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
|
|
Quote:
Rabidbaboon said:
The only way to truly know if your panaeolus mushrooms are active is to observe blueing in the base of the stems
Though since most Subbs don't show any bluing, if they have jet black spores and otherwise look like Subbs, then it is safe to test them out. No Panaeolus are poisonous.
Quote:
Klavey said:
That's strange, because to me it seems that the two specimens differ greatly in many aspects. What makes you conclude that they could be the same species even though they look very different?
I've seen a lot of variation within this species. I've picked Foes that look like both of those. They just don't look substantially different to me.
Quote:
Rabidbaboon said:
In my opinion they could be easily pan subbs. I've yet to find any pan foe's, but I have found many pan subbs that look just like that.
I've certainly found Subbs that look very similar to both. I've found Foes that look even more similar.
The second collection look much more like Subbs based on the overall colour, but the gills look brown.
Quote:
Rabidbaboon said:
Keep a sample for the hospital just in case. You may have some nasty shits, and vomit, and not even trip.
Naw, no Panaeolus or Panaeolina are poisonous. These are definitely one of the two.
--------------------
|
Klavey
Soon to be shroomer
Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 143
Loc: Northern California
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
|
Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: CureCat]
#10360549 - 05/18/09 06:55 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Since they look so similar, then is the only ultimate way to distinguish a foe from an identical subb is through microscopic and chemical analysis?
Also, I read that subbs have grey or black gills, but most of the pics I see of them have more brownish or tan gills. for example, the subbs here don't appear to have black or gray gills at all: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/usergallery.php/gallery/8399/imgpl/3/imgpp/96/screen/1/folder/panaeolus
--------------------
For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love
|
golden1
Registered: 06/18/08
Posts: 1,707
Loc: north korea
|
Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: Klavey]
#10360593 - 05/18/09 07:03 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
you need to spore print to find out, see 2nd post
jet black = subbs
leave them printing for a day and you can be sure youll get a good print
|
Klavey
Soon to be shroomer
Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 143
Loc: Northern California
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
|
Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: golden1]
#10360879 - 05/18/09 07:58 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
yeah, i'll print them.
--------------------
For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love
|
BlimeyGrimey
Collector of Spores
Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 3,798
Loc: Puget Sound
|
Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: Klavey]
#10361258 - 05/18/09 09:10 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
If they have black spores they could be Panaeolus olivaceus or acuminatus.
--------------------
Message me for free microscopy services on Psilocybe, Panaeolus, and Gymnopilus species.
Looking for wild Panaeolus cinctulus and Panaeolus olivaceus prints.
|
CureCat
Strangest
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
|
Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: Klavey]
#10362580 - 05/19/09 03:01 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Klavey said:
Since they look so similar, then is the only ultimate way to distinguish a foe from an identical subb is through microscopic and chemical analysis?
As mentioned, a spore print will solve the issue. However, if they are too young or too old, you will not get a spore print... Luckily, Panaeolina are not going to make you ill if you accidentally eat some, and the more you have seen of both types the easier it is to tell the subtle differences without a spore print.
Telling different species of black spored, grass dwelling Panaolus from one another may be trickier. Microscopy may be necessary to definitively sort them.
Quote:
Klavey said:
Also, I read that subbs have grey or black gills, but most of the pics I see of them have more brownish or tan gills. for example, the subbs here don't appear to have black or gray gills at all: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/usergallery.php/gallery/8399/imgpl/3/imgpp/96/screen/1/folder/panaeolus
It's more of a comparative colour difference... Subbs have darker, grey-er gills than Foes. There is also a lot of colour variation within different species, and the younger mushrooms will tend to have lighter brown gills compared with the mature mushrooms. Lastly, different cameras may show different colours, and different computer monitors also have different colour balance.
For example, here are some Subbs I found last year.
--------------------
|
Klavey
Soon to be shroomer
Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 143
Loc: Northern California
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
|
Re: Panaeolus Subbalteatus? [Re: CureCat]
#10367029 - 05/19/09 10:13 PM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
|
|
Today I went back to them and they had matured some. They are definitely panaeolina foenisecii. Stipe is way to long and thin, gills are super brown. Thanks anyways guys, I appreciate your help and information. At least now I am more familiar with subb's look-alike species.
--------------------
For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love
|
|
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Buy Kratom Extract 
Substrate Bags 
All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck 
Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale 
Bulk Substrate 
Kratom Powder for Sale
Edit 
Reply 
cardboard
1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
GSAfarmer
emeryg89
Helpme1
BabaOreilly