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nonlinear
armour plated farmer
Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 608
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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need advice on bulk coir tek and wbs spawn:bulk ratio
#9807222 - 02/16/09 10:27 AM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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it's been about 6 months or so since I did my last project, and I know how fast the teks change and improve around here, so I just wanted to check in and see if anyone has any suggestions or anything before I pasteurize my bulk subs.
First of all, I have a shitload of healthy WBS spawn (IMO, anyhow)- I'm talking 18 1.5L jars and 18 of the smaller standard mason jars (700 ml?). Each jar is about 80-90% full. a quick back of envelope calculation assuming jars are 85% full gives me roughly 33.7 Liters = about 35.5 Quarts of WBS spawn.
Question 1: what is the currently accepted ratio of spawn:bulk? in the past I think I used 1:4 spawn:bulk. Using that ratio means that I could pasteurize up to 142 Quarts of bulk. That is going to take me forever to make and pasteurize all that substrate, and I live in a condo (fuck....). i know I can use more spawn and less bulk, but is there a limit?
For my bulk substrate, i use Large Dose's Lowe Bucket Tek. Basically, 4.5 Qts water, 1 brick coir, 1 quart coffee grounds, and 1 qt verm. I also add gypsum to 10% of final volume. This yields about 10 L per bucket, which means i'm gonna need about 13 buckets to make all the substrate above.
Question 2: are there any opinions on the above tek and sub recipe? have there been any recent improvements in sub recipes or prep that I should be aware of?
Question 3: I don't have used coffee grounds, so will need to buy new coffee and process it myself. I think I boiled it last time... but can't remember the details. what are people currently using in terms of coffee:water volume ratios and boiling times?
Question 4: Like I said, I live in a condo and i'm not sure if I want to have like 6 or 7 monotubs going at once... last time I had only two and some days I would have to spend 30-40 minutes in the morning harvesting fruits (i used the big sterlite tubs). I'm not sure I would want to have to do that with 6 or 7 tubs at once, being that I have to be in to work etc. what options do i have? i'm thinking i could 1) use more spawn:bulk or 2) stagger the start times for the tubs (this would also save me a lot of time now, cause I wouldn't have to make up 13 buckets of bulk today haha). but i'm just not sure how long my myc will stay healthy in the jars.... any ideas?
thanks
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Edited by nonlinear (02/16/09 10:37 AM)
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nonlinear
armour plated farmer
Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 608
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: need advice on bulk coir tek and wbs spawn:bulk ratio [Re: nonlinear]
#9807692 - 02/16/09 12:07 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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any comments? sorry to bump this, but it's on the second page already and i'm going shopping right now - gonna start doing this when i get back so I would really appreciate any comments.
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fungiamongi2
pharmer
Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 1,042
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: need advice on bulk coir tek and wbs spawn:bulk ratio [Re: nonlinear]
#9807768 - 02/16/09 12:24 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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go by starbucks and get spent grounds. stagger your monotubs by a a couple days. easy enough
-------------------- gonna bring her a kiss, make those blues run
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Damion5050
Mush Doctor
Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 12,493
Loc: Lost In Translation !
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Re: need advice on bulk coir tek and wbs spawn:bulk ratio [Re: nonlinear]
#9807778 - 02/16/09 12:26 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well your best bet is at least 1:4 but I always do 1:2.
Check my signature for Large_Doses Coir Tek.
You can use fresh coffee grounds, I do all the time.
Question 4 I really don't get, but you can always do a big money tub, go and buy a sterlite 105 or 116 quart tub and make a gigantic mono out of it..
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shroomzey
Humble Student
Registered: 05/17/08
Posts: 904
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Re: need advice on bulk coir tek and wbs spawn:bulk ratio [Re: nonlinear]
#9807810 - 02/16/09 12:33 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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First off, don't bump your thread in less than 24 hours. So what your thread went to the second page? Bump it the next day, everyone posts threads that don't get answered sometimes. Just deal with it. =)
Question 1: 1:4 is acceptable. But if you'd like to work up less bulk sub, spawn 1:2 or 1:3. The lesser the ratio the more nutritional value you're gonna get, the faster it will colonize, which means there is a lesser risk of contam.
Question 2: I also use that bucket tek but with a different variant. I use 1.5 bricks of coir, heat up a gallon and half of water to around 170 F degrees and pour it in, let sit for 30 minutes. Then I come back and add 2 quarts of coffee, 1 quart of gypsum, and 4 quarts of vermiculite.
This ratio is somewhere around 65% coir / 20% verm / 10% coffee / 5% gypsum. And using that tek it comes up with about 20 quarts of sub. If you do it like that, you'll be doing less bucket loads per session. And if you're gonna do it like that, you can mix all that stuff in a 5 gallon bucket.. its pretty hard but you can do it. I'd suggest you get a slightly larger tub to mix in. This is just the way I like to do things and by no means is superior to other methods... its just what I like.
Question 3: Go to Starbucks, ask if they have a "grounds for your garden" program, and that you'd like to use some used coffee grounds for your vegetable garden. And they'll hand you over a fat bag of like 20 quarts of used grounds. Some will, some won't, you just have to figure that one out.
Question 4: As the famous Nike slogan says,"Just do it."
-------------------- 200 years from now, we will look back and laugh at ourselves for how stupid we were. My Glovebox Find a respected member of the community and study them. I give thanks to: RogerRabbit, agar, hyphae, Nibin, fahtster, The shroomy 1, monstermitch, FooMan, HippieChick, Blue Helix, eatyualive, mycofile, and many, many more. Never accept mediocrity, always return the love that is given to you.
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nonlinear
armour plated farmer
Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 608
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
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Re: need advice on bulk coir tek and wbs spawn:bulk ratio [Re: shroomzey]
#9808631 - 02/16/09 02:56 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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OK well i just bought 7 cans of coffee at costco. it was like $50, but i need to get started today and didn't want to dick around trying to find spent grounds. i used fresh coffee last time, but boiled it and i'm not sure for how long or how much water. i'll have to do a search.
Quote:
shroomzey said: 1:4 is acceptable. But if you'd like to work up less bulk sub, spawn 1:2 or 1:3. The lesser the ratio the more nutritional value you're gonna get, the faster it will colonize, which means there is a lesser risk of contam.
I'm confused... a smaller spawn:bulk should have 'more nutritional value" because it has more bulk sub relative to WBS (assuming that bulk subs are better for fruiting than straight WBS+gypsum, right?). but, a larger spawn:bulk should colonize faster. so did you mistype, or am I not getting what you're saying (just trying to figure out what you meant).
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Vermonster420
I gotta have more cowbell !
Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 662
Loc: Standin' On the Moon
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Re: need advice on bulk coir tek and wbs spawn:bulk ratio [Re: nonlinear]
#9808695 - 02/16/09 03:05 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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he meant the less spawn to bulk=more nutes available but slower colonizing time which increases chances of contams.
more spawn to bulk deceases the nute ratio but colonizes faster and theoretically fruits faster too decreasing contam possibility.
I got 1:3 spawn to bulk, it colonizes in 6-10 days and fruits well.
start drinking coffee, you'll get more done and have plenty of ready to use grounds!
-------------------- To thine own self be true. That which does not kill me makes me stronger. Ass...it's the NEW pussy! "Gungah-DeGungah"
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shroomzey
Humble Student
Registered: 05/17/08
Posts: 904
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Re: need advice on bulk coir tek and wbs spawn:bulk ratio [Re: nonlinear]
#9808729 - 02/16/09 03:10 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
nonlinear said: OK well i just bought 7 cans of coffee at costco. it was like $50, but i need to get started today and didn't want to dick around trying to find spent grounds. i used fresh coffee last time, but boiled it and i'm not sure for how long or how much water. i'll have to do a search.
Quote:
shroomzey said: 1:4 is acceptable. But if you'd like to work up less bulk sub, spawn 1:2 or 1:3. The lesser the ratio the more nutritional value you're gonna get, the faster it will colonize, which means there is a lesser risk of contam.
I'm confused... a smaller spawn:bulk should have 'more nutritional value" because it has more bulk sub relative to WBS (assuming that bulk subs are better for fruiting than straight WBS+gypsum, right?). but, a larger spawn:bulk should colonize faster. so did you mistype, or am I not getting what you're saying (just trying to figure out what you meant).
Grains are more nutritional than bulk substrates, most don't understand how grains and bulk work so let me break it down for yah. =)
Grains are more nutritional, BUT lack water retention and are hard to fruit. Trying to fruit grain by itself is more often than not going to fail. However, placing a casing layer on grain will help it fruit, creating a better micro-climate allowing it to fruit.
Now bulk substrates, un-supplemented (such as manure, coir, straw, etc) are less nutritional than grains, however, they're much easier to fruit than grains by themselves, have better water retention, etc.
Therefore when you combine grains with bulk, you are increasing the amount of substrate you're fruiting with.
The advantage to having a high grain:bulk ratio is that you're using less grain to make more substrate, it takes longer to colonize, higher risk of contamination, but you're working with a lot more substrate.
The reason bulk substrates fruit so much... is because you're using so much.
It's not because its far more nutritional than grain... it's because you're using far more of it.
For example, if you fruit 10 quarts of substrate that consists of 5 quarts of WBS with 5 quarts of bulk, it will do better (provided the same conditions) as 10 quarts of substrate that consists of 2 quarts grain, and 8 quarts bulk.
Understand?
It's all about what you want to achieve with the amount of spawn you have to use.
If you have 10 quarts of spawn you can either:
1: spawn it to 10 quarts of bulk sub, it will colonize super fast, less risk of contam, but you're only getting 20 total quarts of substrate to fruit with.
2: spawn to 40 quarts of bulk substrate, and you have a total of 50 quarts to work with, therefore giving you a much bigger yield than if you only had 20. However, it will take longer to colonize, and you have a higher risk of contamination.
But remember, side by side, if you have a total substrate of 50 quarts... 50 quarts consisting of 25 grain + 25 bulk will beat out 10 quarts of grain + 40 quarts bulk, provided the same conditions.
I hope that helps... if you want me to try to clarify more just let me know.
-------------------- 200 years from now, we will look back and laugh at ourselves for how stupid we were. My Glovebox Find a respected member of the community and study them. I give thanks to: RogerRabbit, agar, hyphae, Nibin, fahtster, The shroomy 1, monstermitch, FooMan, HippieChick, Blue Helix, eatyualive, mycofile, and many, many more. Never accept mediocrity, always return the love that is given to you.
Edited by shroomzey (02/16/09 03:36 PM)
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Stimpy913
Happy Happy Joy Joy
Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 765
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
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Re: need advice on bulk coir tek and wbs spawn:bulk ratio [Re: shroomzey]
#9809456 - 02/16/09 05:24 PM (15 years, 1 month ago) |
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with that much spawn....... you can definitely spawn the grain to straight field capacity vermiculite (like rez effect) at 1:1 grain:verm. Bulk substrates aren't necessary if all you want is to double the volume of your grainspawn by spawning. I do not know what spawning the grain at a rate higher than 1:1 to straight verm would do, but pf cakes are 1:2 so............ Someone with know how want to chime in on this? Could save this man a lot of work
-------------------- How to talk to cops
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weskes
Stranger
Registered: 05/15/09
Posts: 81
Loc: Benelux
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
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Re: need advice on bulk coir tek and wbs spawn:bulk ratio [Re: shroomzey]
#10341765 - 05/15/09 02:39 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
shroomzey said:
Quote:
nonlinear said: OK well i just bought 7 cans of coffee at costco. it was like $50, but i need to get started today and didn't want to dick around trying to find spent grounds. i used fresh coffee last time, but boiled it and i'm not sure for how long or how much water. i'll have to do a search.
Quote:
shroomzey said: 1:4 is acceptable. But if you'd like to work up less bulk sub, spawn 1:2 or 1:3. The lesser the ratio the more nutritional value you're gonna get, the faster it will colonize, which means there is a lesser risk of contam.
I'm confused... a smaller spawn:bulk should have 'more nutritional value" because it has more bulk sub relative to WBS (assuming that bulk subs are better for fruiting than straight WBS+gypsum, right?). but, a larger spawn:bulk should colonize faster. so did you mistype, or am I not getting what you're saying (just trying to figure out what you meant).
Grains are more nutritional than bulk substrates, most don't understand how grains and bulk work so let me break it down for yah. =)
Grains are more nutritional, BUT lack water retention and are hard to fruit. Trying to fruit grain by itself is more often than not going to fail. However, placing a casing layer on grain will help it fruit, creating a better micro-climate allowing it to fruit.
Now bulk substrates, un-supplemented (such as manure, coir, straw, etc) are less nutritional than grains, however, they're much easier to fruit than grains by themselves, have better water retention, etc.
Therefore when you combine grains with bulk, you are increasing the amount of substrate you're fruiting with.
The advantage to having a high grain:bulk ratio is that you're using less grain to make more substrate, it takes longer to colonize, higher risk of contamination, but you're working with a lot more substrate.
The reason bulk substrates fruit so much... is because you're using so much.
It's not because its far more nutritional than grain... it's because you're using far more of it.
For example, if you fruit 10 quarts of substrate that consists of 5 quarts of WBS with 5 quarts of bulk, it will do better (provided the same conditions) as 10 quarts of substrate that consists of 2 quarts grain, and 8 quarts bulk.
Understand?
It's all about what you want to achieve with the amount of spawn you have to use.
If you have 10 quarts of spawn you can either:
1: spawn it to 10 quarts of bulk sub, it will colonize super fast, less risk of contam, but you're only getting 20 total quarts of substrate to fruit with.
2: spawn to 40 quarts of bulk substrate, and you have a total of 50 quarts to work with, therefore giving you a much bigger yield than if you only had 20. However, it will take longer to colonize, and you have a higher risk of contamination.
But remember, side by side, if you have a total substrate of 50 quarts... 50 quarts consisting of 25 grain + 25 bulk will beat out 10 quarts of grain + 40 quarts bulk, provided the same conditions.
I hope that helps... if you want me to try to clarify more just let me know.
Thanks, needed that.
-------------------- What goes up, must come down!
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RedDevil420
Antichrist
Registered: 01/03/09
Posts: 1,079
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
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Re: need advice on bulk coir tek and wbs spawn:bulk ratio [Re: weskes]
#10342111 - 05/15/09 05:58 AM (14 years, 10 months ago) |
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so basically just make more spawn because it takes less space. also staggering is good. for water ratios go by field capacity.
-------------------- I'm Just Making This All Up. Grains In Glass Jars With Professional Filters FTW. Coir Monotubs FTW. Sterile Technique FTW. Fan dry, Desiccant storage FTW. Ralphster's Spores FTW. Mushroom Cloud - Dirtball
Edited by RedDevil420 (05/15/09 06:01 AM)
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